Author Topic: Logan's Profiles - 8x8 Scimitar  (Read 367048 times)

Offline apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #225 on: November 15, 2012, 12:03:59 PM »
Lovely work guys! Logan: on the camouflage, the top version looks cooler but the bottom version would probably work better.
Froglord: "... amphibious doom descends ... approach the alter and swear your allegiance to the swamp."

Offline lauhof52

  • Dutchie
  • The Decimator Guy!
Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #226 on: November 16, 2012, 04:15:55 PM »
The first one is top, Logan !! :)

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #227 on: November 19, 2012, 02:36:13 PM »
With any luck, this will be my 3rd entry for the Clear Your Bench GB.  I won't create a thread for it until it's done, though.  It's been over 2 years since I've touched it, but I REALLY want to finish it this time.  I've basically finished the center fuselage at this point, but I probably won't get much of a chance to work on the booms until after this week as I'll be traveling for Thanksgiving.  This is only at 50% size, even after you click on it, but you should get an appreciation for the detail in it.



For all intents and purposes, this is identical to the center fuselage of the second XP-61E prototype.  Let me know if there are any questions.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline bluesman

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Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #228 on: November 19, 2012, 11:28:52 PM »
Logan, that's looking good.

How about a tut on how to do bare metal like that? I do a fair job, but I can do better.

Offline Doom!

  • Slayer of pixels and plastic!
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Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #229 on: November 20, 2012, 12:45:01 AM »
You were right....after clicking I got an appreciation for it.  ;)   Lookin' very good, I hope the profiling gods bless you with an open schedule and ambition, can't wait to see this one completed.
Doom!
Jeff G.

Offline Talos

  • First candidate for the BTS Gulag...
  • It's riveting!
Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #230 on: November 20, 2012, 03:03:26 AM »
It's really coming along great, though we still have a lot of work to do on it. I've said it before and I'll say it again, your metal textures are phenomenal here.

Ugh, every time I look at the line art though, I cringe. I've improved by leaps and bounds since then in both technique and research. Especially research, not trusting any source completely besides period photographs.

That said, we should have some spectacular profiles come out of this.

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #231 on: November 30, 2012, 01:33:49 PM »
Well, I just finished the rivets on the engine area, firewall, and wing fairing to my satisfaction.  Now I start on the rest of the boom from the panel line roughly below the wing spar back.  That's still a lot of work to do.  The REALLY good news is that it's the best documented part of the aircraft in my photographs.  I should be able to get all the rivet lines accurately.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline arc3371

  • Takes no responsibility should anyone try to turn the drawings into plastic...but we will still hold him accountable for the madness that ensues!!!
Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #232 on: November 30, 2012, 11:19:58 PM »
Great profiles as usual

Offline apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #233 on: December 01, 2012, 06:53:44 AM »
Yep. And, as Talos said, "your metal textures are phenomenal"!  Now on to those booms  >:(
Froglord: "... amphibious doom descends ... approach the alter and swear your allegiance to the swamp."

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #234 on: December 01, 2012, 11:48:15 AM »
So, in case anyone cares, there's a major tail boom panel line that is incorrect on the overwhelming majority of P-61 line art, all of which depict a line that essentially isn't there on the actual aircraft.

I'm spending tonight depicting that correctly.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #235 on: December 01, 2012, 01:08:50 PM »
Here's a preview of what I'm working on at the moment.



Anyone want to take a guess at how many layers there are in the whole profile at the time I took this preview WIP?  Fair warning, the overwhelming majority are not visible and will be merged before I make the first profile in order to keep the file size down.  Still, I've used every layer at some point in the creation of the profile so each of them make it into the final product in one way or another.

If someone can get within 10% of the actual number of layers, I'll do a profile of their choice (assuming no airframe modifications since those take forever).

Cheers,

Logan

Offline finsrin

  • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
  • Finds part glues it on, finds part glues it on....
Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #236 on: December 01, 2012, 01:17:04 PM »
8
Is a W.A.G. know nothing about it.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2012, 02:01:52 PM by finsrin »

Offline Cliffy B

  • Ship Whiffer Extraordinaire...master of Beyond Visual Range Modelling
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Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #237 on: December 01, 2012, 01:22:45 PM »
20-35?  I sure hope you label your layers as you go, I'm speaking from experience here.  Nothing sucks more than trying to figure out what "Layer 19" was when you click it on and off and don't see anything change at all only to copy and paste and find its some minor little detail you forgot about.


BTW, did you decide on a tablet yet?
"Radials growl, inlines purr, jets blow!"  -Anonymous

"Helos don't fly.  They vibrate so violently that the ground rejects them."  -Tom Clancy

"If all else fails, call in an air strike."  -Anonymous

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #238 on: December 01, 2012, 01:44:52 PM »
You're both very low.  I group my layers, color code them, and name the groups.  I also name the individual layers as necessary.  I'm able to keep them decently well sorted by doing that.

As for a tablet, I haven't made a decision yet.  I'm thinking about one of the cheaper Wacom Bamboo Create tablets recommended by a family of graphic artists I go to church with.  Anyone here have any experience with the Bamboo line?

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Talos

  • First candidate for the BTS Gulag...
  • It's riveting!
Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #239 on: December 01, 2012, 03:58:50 PM »
You're both very low.  I group my layers, color code them, and name the groups.  I also name the individual layers as necessary.  I'm able to keep them decently well sorted by doing that.

As for a tablet, I haven't made a decision yet.  I'm thinking about one of the cheaper Wacom Bamboo Create tablets recommended by a family of graphic artists I go to church with.  Anyone here have any experience with the Bamboo line?

Cheers,

Logan

I have one actually, from the last generation a couple years back...

And let me guess, a hundred/hundred and fifty?

Offline Jeremak

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Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #240 on: December 01, 2012, 08:16:36 PM »
Quote
Anyone want to take a guess at how many layers there are in the whole profile at the time I took this preview WIP?
about 10-15 for rivet and panel lines weathering, 2-4 for rivets and lines, 6-16 for highlights, and maybe another 10 for shadows, 4 just for colwling and lamps, 10-20 for bare metal texture... This give from  circa 35 to 70 layers.
Quote
Nothing sucks more than trying to figure out what "Layer 19" was when you click it on and off and don't see anything change at all only to copy and paste and find its some minor little detail you forgot about.
Thats why i name them: wheel, wheel highlights, wheel shadow, tyre, lamp, wheathering this, wheatering that.. etc.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
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Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #241 on: December 02, 2012, 01:07:39 AM »
You're both very low.  I group my layers, color code them, and name the groups.  I also name the individual layers as necessary.  I'm able to keep them decently well sorted by doing that.

As for a tablet, I haven't made a decision yet.  I'm thinking about one of the cheaper Wacom Bamboo Create tablets recommended by a family of graphic artists I go to church with.  Anyone here have any experience with the Bamboo line?

Cheers,

Logan
That sounds very much like using layers in CATIA V4 at work.  We have a definite convention to follow with respect to what goes where and it's very necessary with so many designers.  I'll hazard a WAG of 254 which is what that system is set up for.  Do you perhaps set up like several major companies do with a model layer map in each model (Yes, Bell does that and I know Boeing and what's currently Hawker-Beechcraft(soon, apparently to be Beechcraft as the jets are sold off) do - LM-Aero doesn't but conventions are enforced in the Check process).

Beyond that, the work looks great.  Having, and still doing, my share of fastener detailing - nutplates, rivets, screws, bolts, washers, etc., I know just how laborious it can be but how necessary it is to do properly.

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #242 on: December 02, 2012, 01:50:11 AM »
Quote
Anyone want to take a guess at how many layers there are in the whole profile at the time I took this preview WIP?

about 10-15 for rivet and panel lines weathering, 2-4 for rivets and lines, 6-16 for highlights, and maybe another 10 for shadows, 4 just for colwling and lamps, 10-20 for bare metal texture... This give from  circa 35 to 70 layers.

You have the right idea, but you've way low-balled my current count on rivet lines.  Also, you're estimate would be closer if we were just talking visible layeres, but a lot of layers go into those 16 visible lighting layers, for instance.  Finally, you're close on one part of the boom, but not the whole drawing.

Beyond that, the work looks great.  Having, and still doing, my share of fastener detailing - nutplates, rivets, screws, bolts, washers, etc., I know just how laborious it can be but how necessary it is to do properly.


Thanks, you're not kidding about how laborious it can be.  Fortunately I do take comfort in the fact that even when I guess wrong, this is still the most accurate P-61 boom profiled that I've ever seen.  Also, given the couple hundred dollars worth of P-61 books I've accumulated for the project and I still don't have the detail I need, I can safely say that the only people that could call me out on my mistakes either have direct access to a P-61C up close (both of which I've seen in person myself, too), or access to a large stash of unpublished photographs of bare metal P-61s (unlikely).

As for the layer count, [ur=http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,20962.msg580445.html#msg580445]perttime has had the closest guess for the whole thing over on the What If forums with ~1,500 layers[/url].  Still a little low, but he's definitely close.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
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Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #243 on: December 02, 2012, 06:16:34 AM »
And that's why we can overlay models in design, to keep within the Layer restrictions of the system.  I suspect you may hit system requirements restrictions at some point as I know that if I overlay too many, or too dense, models, the system starts to get "balky". 

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #244 on: December 02, 2012, 06:36:57 AM »
Yeah, I understand.  I always eliminate the unnecessary layers and consolidate the visible ones into as few as possible.  When I finish this one, I'll probably be a bit over 2000 layers.  I'll try to consolidate that down to a few hundred when I prep it for the first couple of profiles.

Thanks,

Logan

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #245 on: December 02, 2012, 02:37:28 PM »
As I said on Arc's thread, I'm still driving myself crazy one rivet at a time with this P-61.  Just the aft portion of the boom and the vertical tail to go!

Update for tonight:



As for the layers, I'm going to give it to pert with his guess of 1500.  The actual number of layers when I asked?  1851.  Now it's probably closer to 1900, maybe a bit over.  It'll be well over 2000 by the time it's done, but I'll try to consolidate it to closer to 10% of that when I convert it to "production" mode.

Cheers,

Logan

Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #246 on: December 02, 2012, 08:12:14 PM »
Blimey! That's incredibly impressive!

Offline bluesman

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Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #247 on: December 02, 2012, 11:21:08 PM »
Coming along nicely

On tablets, Wacom is the standard, the bamboo line is very good. You can get a decent bamboo tablet for 99 bucks. I have an older wacom, and its workign fine and does the job.

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #248 on: December 05, 2012, 02:11:59 PM »
Thanks, folks.  Want to see what I'm working on now?  This is the piece I've got to do:





...and here's what I did:



...and with lighting & shading:



It's coming along.  Now I just need to do the tail.

Unfortunately, I fear that I'm turning into this.

http://www.anyclip.com/movies/the-aviator/the-rivets-must-be-flush/

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Logan Hartke

  • High priest in the black arts of profiling...
  • Rivet-counting whiffer
Re: Logan's Profiles - Japanese A9He1-N "Wade" Floatplane
« Reply #249 on: December 09, 2012, 11:09:11 AM »
You guys want another WIP to see how much is involved in all these rivets and to get a look an inside glimpse into how it looks when I work on one of these?

And some of you modelers think you have messy workbenches!



By the way, if you don't get the reference to the current thread/post subject, just watch this (go to 22:11):

<a href="" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win"></a>


Cheers,

Logan