P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration

[Kerick]

Just use the A-10 main gear for a tricycle version.

[elmayerle]

The latest issue of Warbirds International: Mustangs has an article on tests with ski-equipped fighters with, of course, emphasis on the testing with a pair of P-51A's.  The P-51 seems to have fared the best overall, not being particularly deficient in any of the test categories (other fighters - the also tested the P-36, P-38, P-39, P-40, and P-47 - may have excelled in one area, but the Mustang wasn't behind by much, if at all, in any category).  In any case, the tested retractable ski landing gear was never adopted, but I could see ski-equipped Mustangs in Swedish or Finnish winter camouflage (the Finnish ones perhaps being captures Soviet examples?).  The article does have enough pictures that an accurate model of the installation could be made.

[Rickshaw]

How'd they manage the retraction thing on the P-51?

[elmayerle]

How'd they manage the retraction thing on the P-51?

The skis tuck up to the fuselage right cleanly, both the mains and the tail ski.  The article has pictures of the aircraft in flight with the skis retracted.  A more developed version might put a touch of fairing on the top of each main ski to eliminate a cause of turbulence-induced drag, but more doesn't seem needed and the performance and handling did not suffer too much (speed loss of 18 knots or so) according to the article.  The main skis attach to the main gear leg with a linkage to turn them, keeping them parallel to the airflow; the article has good pictures of both the ski and the linkage as installed on the ground, also has good pictures of the tail ski setup.

[perttime]

performance and handling did not suffer too much (speed loss of 18 knots or so) according to the article.

Even 18 knots can be considered significant.
By the time P-51 was in service, the Finnish air force had abandoned the use of skis on fighters. Ploughind and/or rolling the bases made more sense.
Even Brewster Buffalos, which were not all that hot by that time, were used with wheels and there was no attempt to put skis on Bf 109s. Not worth the trouble, especially with the degradation of performance.

[elmayerle]

That was 18 knots in the experimental configuration with no attempt at drag reduction; the speculation was that proper fairings would reduce that considerably.  Still, that was for the Allison-engine version and I don't know whether the installation would have been quite as clean on the Merlin-engine version since part of the ski recess is forward of the firewall (on the P-51A, it used space/volume made available by removing the nose guns).

While the Finns didn't, I know the Germans experimented with ski-equipped Bf109s, but the performance cost for the fixed skis was definitely unacceptable and the effort never went any farther.

[GTX_Admin]

While the Finns didn't, I know the Germans experimented with ski-equipped Bf109s, but the performance cost for the fixed skis was definitely unacceptable and the effort never went any farther.

And the Fw190...

[GTX_Admin]

You can see the P-51 (and other platforms) on skies etc here:  http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/494/Anything-But-Wheels.aspx

[elmayerle]

I mentioned this in the Physical Models thread on a beautiful Cavalier Turbo-Mustang III, how about that conversion applied to a P-51B/C airframe, but done with a Mustang I wing with the 20mm cannon, only replace the Hispano cannon with post-war Browning M39 20mm cannon such as carried by the F-100 et al.  Mayhaps give it a Malcolm Hood, too.

[Volkodav]

I mentioned this in the Physical Models thread on a beautiful Cavalier Turbo-Mustang III, how about that conversion applied to a P-51B/C airframe, but done with a Mustang I wing with the 20mm cannon, only replace the Hispano cannon with post-war Browning M39 20mm cannon such as carried by the F-100 et al.  Mayhaps give it a Malcolm Hood, too.

Or an A-36T?  Malcolm Hood would look good on that too, I do like the cannon though.

[GTX_Admin]

Proposed Turboprop P-51:

[GTX_Admin]

Why worry about rubber wheels and/or masking thereof?

[Volkodav]

OK what's the story on that?

[Vuk]

... Wooden wheels are attached to a P-51 "Mustang" fighter plane, so it may be moved around the ramp at the Inglewood, California plant of North American Aviation, Incorportated. When it is ready for flight tests, regular landing wheels with rubber tires will be substituted...

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/oem2002005889/PP/

[GTX_Admin]

What he said

[TurboCoupeTurbo]

I enjoy the fact that it says "Do Not Inflate" on those wooden wheels.

[CiTrus90]

I enjoy the fact that it says "Do Not Inflate" on those wooden wheels.

Kinda reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iypRShb64cg

[raafif]

"Graffiti Gal " :)

[GTX_Admin]

You leave your plane in some places and look what happens...

[FAAMAN]

Bl--dy kids

[Vuk]

Awesome pic! Any particular story behind or just too much spare time?

[kitnut617]

It was celebrating a milestone in production, or even the last one produced.  Can't remember which --

Bit later:  OK, checking on the internet it was the 10,000th P-51 built, a P-51D, and everyone on the production line signed their name on it.

[elmayerle]

Odd thought, the USAAF wanted to get Merlin-powered Mustangs into the air as soon as possible, so commissioned the reworking of P-51s, P-51As, and A-36s along the lines of the XP-78 to produce XP-78As, Bs, and Cs respectively.

Another thought would be an aircraft reclamation center in England gets a P-51 with a trashed fuselage and a P-51B/C with a trashed wing and mates the good portions to produce a cannon-armed, Merlin-powered P-51.  It flies with no serial number and has "Junkyard Dog" nose art.

[Kerick]

Odd thought, the USAAF wanted to get Merlin-powered Mustangs into the air as soon as possible, so commissioned the reworking of P-51s, P-51As, and A-36s along the lines of the XP-78 to produce XP-78As, Bs, and Cs respectively.

Another thought would be an aircraft reclamation center in England gets a P-51 with a trashed fuselage and a P-51B/C with a trashed wing and mates the good portions to produce a cannon-armed, Merlin-powered P-51.  It flies with no serial number and has "Junkyard Dog" nose art.

I wonder if that could have worked in RW.

[Volkodav]

Desert Air Force received a couple of dozen P-51 but unfortunately through sabotage or incompetence their engines are completely ruined by contaminated lubricants.  Fortuitously the RAF had recently received a batch of spare Merlin XX for their Hurricane IIs, which, due to an unfortunately high number of write offs were not all needed.  In fact the written off Hurricanes became another source of Merlin XX for the ingenious re-engining program developed by the Desert Air Force.