McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration

[GTX_Admin]

Interesting idea...

[elmayerle]

I checked the exhaust nozzle and tailpipe for Hasegawa's 1/72 Mirage F.1C against their 1/72 F-4EJ and it seems to fit fine.  So I'll start planning on my French attack bird.

Now I need to take notes from the Israeli trial fit of two 30mm DEFA guns and figure how to cleanly model it.

[Volkodav]

How about a very simple, almost was, whiff.  Australia buys the 23 surviving F-4Es they leased while waiting for the delayed F-111C fleet.  A number serials and a late 80s early 90s low vis grey scheme, maybe 2 or 3 Sqn or even 4 Sqn and perhaps RF-4C / E, or F-4G versions could have found their way into the RAAF during the 80s as well.

[GTX_Admin]

Some details if you are interested in doing a swing version:

[GTX_Admin]

How about a very simple, almost was, whiff.  Australia buys the 23 surviving F-4Es they leased while waiting for the delayed F-111C fleet.  A number serials and a late 80s early 90s low vis grey scheme, maybe 2 or 3 Sqn or even 4 Sqn and perhaps RF-4C / E, or F-4G versions could have found their way into the RAAF during the 80s as well.

Maybe re-establish an old RAAF Sqn such as 7 SQN?

[mrvr6]

Some details if you are interested in doing a swing version:

keep the anhedral ala jaguar :)

[Volkodav]

How about a very simple, almost was, whiff.  Australia buys the 23 surviving F-4Es they leased while waiting for the delayed F-111C fleet.  A number serials and a late 80s early 90s low vis grey scheme, maybe 2 or 3 Sqn or even 4 Sqn and perhaps RF-4C / E, or F-4G versions could have found their way into the RAAF during the 80s as well.

Maybe re-establish an old RAAF Sqn such as 7 SQN?

Yes, pretty much what I was thinking but I was also keeping in mind something I read that stated for the Phantoms to be retained a squadron of Mirages would have to be disbanded to provide the necessary man power once 1 and  6 Sqn had finished transitioning to the F-111.  Doesn't matter which squadrons they used the question is would there be one or two of them and would the RAAF acquire additional aircraft, perhaps for reconnaissance and SEAD.

[GTX_Admin]

A number of people have discussed the RAAF keeping their F-4Es in the early '70s when the F-111s started arriving.  Indeed, the RAAF considered retaining the Phantoms in a close air support role for the Army.  Alas, they were returned due to the costs which would have included disbanding one of the Mirage III squadrons.

As an alternative scenario, what if the RAAF did win the argument and accepted disbanding one of the Mirage III squadrons.  However, instead of using the F-4Es in the close air support role or even in a fighter role, what if they were all converted into F-4Gs (as most of the RAAF ones were in real life after return to the US).  This would then give the RAAF a specialised SEAD capability - something they did not have (and indeed, still do not have).

[Volkodav]

Definite possibility, although ironically shortly after the Phantoms were returned 76 Sqn was disbanded to save money and, as I understand it, to stretch out the Mirage IIIs service life through providing a larger pool of airframes to balance out the remaining life of the fleet. 

Possible scenarios I have thought of include the Phantoms re-equip one of the Mirage squadrons (3 Sqn for symmetries sake), or F-4E Phantoms replace Canberras in 2 Sqn while still in Vietnam completely separate to the pre-F-111 lease, maybe 4 Sqn is reformed to take the Phantoms made surplus after the F-111s are delivered.  It could be that the Phantoms are retained / acquired as a deliberate strategy to put off procuring a Mirage replacement.

Another possibility I thought of was DOA was all about the air sea gap, sea and air power, now assuming one or more of the above options has occurred and the Phantom is already in service, additional Phantoms could have been acquired to police the air sea gap and replace the RAN FAAs Skyhawks as the RAAF was now committed to providing fleet air defence.  Maybe there could even be justification for a squadron of RF-4C/E to be stationed in Victoria to monitor Tasmanian dam construction.

[GTX_Admin]

Random idea:  Taiwanese F-4 Phantom II in similar scheme to their S-2Ts:

[Old Wombat]

That's a really nice scheme!

[Volkodav]

Yes that would look cool on a whole range of aircraft.

I just had a thought, how about an ASW Phantom?  Podded sonar buoy launcher, MAD boom (either podded or extending from the aft fuselage etc.) torpedoes and depth charges.

[elmayerle]

Yes that would look cool on a whole range of aircraft.

I just had a thought, how about an ASW Phantom?  Podded sonar buoy launcher, MAD boom (either podded or extending from the aft fuselage etc.) torpedoes and depth charges.

use a MAD "bomb" like ASW helicopters do (Seasprite and MH-60B for example) in a pod similar to the buddy refueling pod but with the winch handling the MAD detector rather than a drogue.

[Weaver]

Random thought: in a whiff world where New Zealand is willing and able to spend more money on defence, how about they take the Aussie Phantoms as their whole air force when the RAAF get their F-111s? Either they never buy the Skyhawks and Strikemasters in the first place or they buy the former but then sell them on.

[Weaver]

Random thought II: Australia buys Phantoms, either as well as or instead of the F-111s, then converts it's Mirages to J-79 power to extend their lives and get common logistics. Kangaroo-Kfir anyone?

[Weaver]

Random Thought III: Specific ground attack weapons that fit in a Phantom's Sparrow bays. 8" diameter, 12' long and 510lbs weight (maybe more?) is plenty for some interesting dumb or smart weapons. My immediate though was for a cluster bomb consisting of 12 x 8" diameter, 8" long submunitions plus nose cone and tail fins/retarder 'chute. Another possibility would be an anti-runway "dibber" bomb similar to the Matra Durandal (which is only slightly too wide to fit).

[Volkodav]

Random thought: in a whiff world where New Zealand is willing and able to spend more money on defence, how about they take the Aussie Phantoms as their whole air force when the RAAF get their F-111s? Either they never buy the Skyhawks and Strikemasters in the first place or they buy the former but then sell them on.

Was it in here someone posted something about the RNZAF selecting the C-130 over the C-141 (which in many ways would have been the better option due to NZs geographic location), specifically because they couldn't afford both Starlifters and Phantoms?  Basically the F-4 Phantom (I believe it was the C or D) was perhaps the single most important capability requirement for the NZDF in the 60s, meaning they sacrificed other capabilities to free up funding for the Phantom, had to opt for fewer, cheaper, slower, smaller, etc. for other capabilities so they could afford F-4s to re-equip their air combat force.

[GTX_Admin]

Random thought II: Australia buys Phantoms, either as well as or instead of the F-111s, then converts it's Mirages to J-79 power to extend their lives and get common logistics. Kangaroo-Kfir anyone?

Like this perhaps:





From here:  Greater Australia

[GTX_Admin]

Random thought: in a whiff world where New Zealand is willing and able to spend more money on defence, how about they take the Aussie Phantoms as their whole air force when the RAAF get their F-111s? Either they never buy the Skyhawks and Strikemasters in the first place or they buy the former but then sell them on.

Not quite J-79 Phantoms but close enough:



Something that Richard and I collaborated upon a while back.  More here

[Weaver]

Nice one Greg!  :)

[Daryl J.]

Ya!  :)

[GTX_Admin]

I thought this had been posted but can't seem to find:

[ysi_maniac]

Delta Phantom: mixing 1/72 F-4 with 1/48 Mirage

[ysi_maniac]

[taiidantomcat]

I thought this had been posted but can't seem to find:

Love those intakes!!

Nice work on the line drawings YSI! :)