McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration

[elmayerle]

Greg, that well could be the one.   

What is more in mind is a true single cockpit, short nose variant perhaps more in line with the F3H-G than the production Phantom.

F4H-1 conversion plus a modified F3H-2 canopy?  Somewhere here I've got a couple of Falcon's F4H-1 conversions and I mainly want the canopy and fairing for my F-4T effort.

[GTX_Admin]

An essential for any true Phantom II fanatic:

[uncle les]

I recognise him.... 

[Daryl J.]

And the kit is.........? 

[GTX_Admin]

And the kit is.........?

http://www.monstersinmotion.com/cart/spaceships-vehicles-item-listt-c-13_194/phantom4-mk-ii-spook-fighter-bomber-model-kit-p-12067

[Daryl J.]

Thanks. 

[elmayerle]

With regards to a comment I made in the Antarki Models Peru thread in New Model Kit News/Reviews, does any one have a Mirage F.1 exhaust nozzle and a Phantom II in the same scale?  If so, can you please do a fit check to see how well the ATAR 9K nozzle would replace the J79 nozzle?  I'm thinking France would want as "French" as possible F-4 if they bought it and this would be one way (much as I can see French OV-10s with Astazou engines in place of T76s).

[Rickshaw]

[/outrageous French accent]
Sacre bleu!  Monsieur Dassault would go to an early grave!
[/outrageous French accent]

 

[dams301]

Hi,

Something like that ?







Exhaust from Haseg Mirage F-1 and RF-4 from Revell both in 1/72

Atar 9 and J-79 are similar size, but Atar is longest than J-79 (see Kfir vs the Nesher). No idea if you can put one in a Phantom (but nozzle fit perfectly)

[elmayerle]

Yes, that's exactly the data I was looking for.  I'm thinking of a late-1960's derivative of the F-4E with ATAR 9K engines and the gatling replaced by twin DEFA 30mm cannon.  It might also have USN-style retractable refueling probe built in at the factory in place of the boom receptacle and will carry French weaponry as much as possible (see that mentioned thread for some ideas).

[elmayerle]

[/outrageous French accent]
Sacre bleu!  Monsieur Dassault would go to an early grave!
[/outrageous French accent]

 

Well, if he can't produce a truly adequate replacement for the F-100, then he shouldn't complain if they go elsewhere; just because this happens to boost Breguet instead of Avions Dassault is purely coincidental.

[dams301]

Yes, that's exactly the data I was looking for.  I'm thinking of a late-1960's derivative of the F-4E with ATAR 9K engines and the gatling replaced by twin EFA 30mm cannon.  It might also have USN-style retractable refueling probe built in at the factory in place of the boom receptacle and will carry French weaponry as much as possible (see that mentioned thread for some ideas).

Great idea. I had a similar one but I change my plan for this RF-4E

Avions Dassault

Just a little precision. Dassault had many name in the past :
- GAMD : Générale Aéronautique Marcel Dassault
- AMD-BA : Avion Marcel Dassault-Bréguet Aviation
- Dassault Aviation (the current name)
 

[Litvyak]

Wow I love that!!

[elmayerle]

Yes, that's exactly the data I was looking for.  I'm thinking of a late-1960's derivative of the F-4E with ATAR 9K engines and the gatling replaced by twin EFA 30mm cannon.  It might also have USN-style retractable refueling probe built in at the factory in place of the boom receptacle and will carry French weaponry as much as possible (see that mentioned thread for some ideas).

Great idea. I had a similar one but I change my plan for this RF-4E

Avions Dassault

Just a little precision. Dassault had many name in the past :
- GAMD : Générale Aéronautique Marcel Dassault
- AMD-BA : Avion Marcel Dassault-Bréguet Aviation
- Dassault Aviation (the current name)
 

Yeah, I know.  I've had many dealings with their sister company, Systemes Dassault, over the years.  For that matter, Marcel Dassault didn't take that name until after WW II, before then he was known as Marcel Bloch; the name change being a tribute to his brother.

[dams301]

Dassault Systemes you meant ?  (ok ok, just kidding  )

The precision wasn't only a reply of your post, but a "general knowledge" for whom didn't know it 

[Daryl J.]

The burner can piece of a Hasegawa Mirage F.1C is a bit too big around for fitting into a Fujimi F-4S.

But......


It seems to be that it has more to do with Hasegawa choosing to include a bit of the aft fuselage on the part.  Modifying it smoothly would be a bit of a trick.   

Somewhere I have a Heller F.1 variant and two generations of Hasegawa Phantoms in 1/72, in 1/48 the Italeri F.1 and Monogram + Hasegawa F-4's but they are in storage somewhere.   I'll check them once located.

[elmayerle]

Dassault Systemes you meant ?  (ok ok, just kidding  )

The precision wasn't only a reply of your post, but a "general knowledge" for whom didn't know it 

*chuckle* It comes up as I wrote it when I'm opening some of the PDM software (ENOVIA if you're that interested).

[Rickshaw]

High Planes do a Atar 9 exhaust nozzle in resin for Mirage IIIs which is very nicely moulded and a reasonable price too.

[GTX_Admin]

Well, apparently in March of 1963, McDonnell had tried to interest the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) in a version of the F-4C (Model 98DX) powered by a pair of French-built SNECMA Atar 9 turbojets. This engine was picked because it powered the Dassault Mirage IIIO fighters that were already being flown by the RAAF. However, the RAAF opted instead for the General Dynamics F-111C.

[GTX_Admin]

One that JP did a while back:

[elmayerle]

Well, I'm thinking more of an air force tactical aircraft camo'd for operations in Chad - taking prompts from similarly painted Mirage F.1s.

[elmayerle]

The burner can piece of a Hasegawa Mirage F.1C is a bit too big around for fitting into a Fujimi F-4S.

But......


It seems to be that it has more to do with Hasegawa choosing to include a bit of the aft fuselage on the part.  Modifying it smoothly would be a bit of a trick.   

Somewhere I have a Heller F.1 variant and two generations of Hasegawa Phantoms in 1/72, in 1/48 the Italeri F.1 and Monogram + Hasegawa F-4's but they are in storage somewhere.   I'll check them once located.

I've got 1/72 Fujimi and Hasegawa F-4E/F's readily available in the "ready-stash" and two Hasegawa Mirage F.1Cs coming, so I can do a suitable fit check.  I'll need to look at the best way of modeling the twin-30mm. DEFA replacement for the Vulcan but that's a detail.  I wonder, would basic F-4D retain the US radar or would the radar (and radome) from the Mirage F.1C be used?

[Rickshaw]

The Mirage F.1 radome was chosen for aerodynamic, rather than electronic reasons.  When it was originally designed, it used the radome from the Mirage III.



I modelled it here:



I believe it would be a better "fit" than the Pinocchio nose that ended up on the F.1 in real life.   

[elmayerle]

Hmm, have to see how a Mirage III radome looks on a F-4E, then, or just stay with the standard F-4E radome..

[Volkodav]

Well, apparently in March of 1963, McDonnell had tried to interest the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) in a version of the F-4C (Model 98DX) powered by a pair of French-built SNECMA Atar 9 turbojets. This engine was picked because it powered the Dassault Mirage IIIO fighters that were already being flown by the RAAF. However, the RAAF opted instead for the General Dynamics F-111C.

So assuming Australia adopted the Avon powered Mirage we could have been offered an Avon powered F-4C.  Imagine the flow on effects this could have had with the RN and  RAF had it gone ahead.