Author Topic: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft  (Read 1166 times)

Offline jcf

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Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2022, 05:20:37 AM »
Howabout a CL-44J based extended range MPA?  ;) ;D


Perhaps powered by an increased output T56 development.

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“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2022, 07:53:11 AM »
Howabout a CL-44J based extended range MPA?  ;) ;D

I like it. It would certainly have as much range as anyone could ask for!

So, basically, a stretched, turboprop Argus  :smiley:
"The trouble ... is that I am really doing it completely backward. Investigation is the only agenda I have. If people are asking for clarification, they will be out of luck." - William Gibson

Offline apophenia

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Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2022, 07:55:36 AM »
I decided to have a further bash at the Type 952 Vanguard in Canadian service ...

In this one, Canadair Ltd. gains rights to the Type 952 Vanguard after production ended at  Weybridge. Initially, Canadair saw a developed Vanguard as a replacement for its CL-44 family. The new aircraft was to offered in both passenger form and as a swing-tailed cargo carrier. An 'enlarged lobed' out-sized cargo carrier was also proposed. But no market emerged for any of these civil developments. The military side was different.

In the UK, BAC - as inheritors of Vickers-Armstrong (Aircraft) [1] - had proposed an ASW derivative of the Vanguard to the RAF. This concept led no further than a mockup - BAC losing out to Hawker Siddeley's Comet-based Nimrod. Around the same time, plans for the BAC VC-10 jetliner were also altered. The VC-10 was to use Vanguard fuselage jigs but BOAC preferences resulted in a new, slightly larger circumference fuselage being designed. Thereafter, the Vanguard jigs and tooling at Weybridge became a liability to BAC. Canadair's offer on Vanguard rights and tooling was snapped up with alacrity.

Shipping Vanguard tools from Surrey to Cartierville was not without its challenges. Containers were barged up the Wey through Shepperton Lock to the Thames. At Gravesend, the barges were off-loaded onto sea-going cargo ships for the North Atlantic crossing. Before the first ship's arrival at the Port de Montréal, detailed design work had begun on a new maritime patrol derivative of the Type 952. Dramatically different from the BAC proposal, the Canadair ASW aircraft would have over 20 feet of fuselage length removed to reduce airframe weight. The nose was also altered to accommodate a Nimrod-style 'chin' radome for the surface search radar.

Canadair's ASW Vanguard into Canadian Service

The Canadair CL-234 submission won DND's Long-Range Patrol Aircraft (LRPA) competition. The CL-234 was then adopted by the Canadian Armed Forces as its new CP-140 Aurora MPA. While the CL-234 LRPA mockup was publicly displaying a formal-looking CP-107 Argus scheme, the first CP-140 was delivered with low-visibility grey paintwork and markings. The first Canadair-Vickers CP-140 Aurora became operational with 404 Long Range Patrol and Training Squadron at the end of December 1977. By February of 1978, the type was also equipping 19 Wing at CFB Comox.

Top Aurora 140014, the first CP-140 to arrive at CFB Comox, in service with 407 Long Range Patrol Squadron. On the upper tailfin is a 'low-viz' version of 407's 'dinner fork'.

The second tranche were Canadair CL-234As aka CP-140A Arcturus. These airframes were fitted with a mixture of modern and 'recycled' CP-107 avionics and sensors. The CP-140A could be quickly distinguished by the bulbous ECM (AN/APR-13) antenna above its cockpit. The mounting for the CAE AN/ASQ-10 magnetic anomaly detecting set was also quite distinct from the MAD 'stinger' on the CP-140. The CP-140A 'chin' radome was indistinguishable from the CP-140 but housed a refurbish ASV-21 (AN/ASV-21C) radar antenna.

The CP-140A Arcturus entered service as with CFB Greenwood units - including 404 Long Range Patrol and Training Squadron, 405 Long Range Patrol Squadron, and 415 Long Range Patrol Force Development Squadron.

Bottom Canadair-Vickers CP-140A Arcturus of 415 Long Range Patrol Force Development Squadron. Nose the visual differences of the ECM fairing and MAD 'stinger'.

The third tranche were Canadair CL-234Bs which reverted to the CL-234 equipment fit. Deliveries of these aircraft began in 1986 as CP-140 Auroras - DND making no distinction between first and third tranches. In the early 1990s, a modernization programme was begun - the AAMP (the Aurora/Arcturus Mid-life Project). Under AAMP, the CP-140A received the CP-140's Texas Instrument AN/APS-507 SAR surface search radar set and AN/ASQ-502 MAD antenna. Once new satcom receiver antennae were installed above the cockpits of both 'AAMPed' CP-140s and CP-140As, the two variants became all but indistinguishable.

_______________________________________

[1] At Canadair, the Vanguard was always associated with the earlier name Vickers - not with BAC.
"The trouble ... is that I am really doing it completely backward. Investigation is the only agenda I have. If people are asking for clarification, they will be out of luck." - William Gibson

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2022, 09:24:00 PM »
Aaaagh! now you done it Stephen, Vanguards with panniers ----- where am I going to find the time ---

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2022, 01:43:50 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2022, 05:23:11 AM »
Robert: I thought you might like those 'Mudguard' derivatives  ;D

Okay, the next one is a bit of 'recycling' of a sort. And 'airliner' is a bit of a stretch but ...

Global Ambitions

The RCAF took on an entire family of aircraft based upon Bombardier's BD-700-1A10 Global Express airframe. The first was the Bombardier CC-244A VIP transport. The second, the CC-244B(T) tanker transport (basically a CC-244A fitted with wing pylons and plumbed for the IFR role). The third was the CP-244C maritime patrol aircraft.
"The trouble ... is that I am really doing it completely backward. Investigation is the only agenda I have. If people are asking for clarification, they will be out of luck." - William Gibson

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2022, 02:22:14 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2022, 10:32:42 AM »
My take on Maritime Patrol variants of the Convair CV-220 series ...

Top Canadair CP-109 Cosmos, a maritime patrol trainer (and later, CP-121 Tracker replacement) of 404 Maritime Patrol and Training Squadron.

On the West Coast, CP-109s were assigned to a 404 Flight which was a lodger unit with 407 Maritime Patrol Squadron based at CFB Comox. Thu West Coast Cosmos wore both the 404 Sqn badge (on the portside, aft of the door) and the winged trident of 407 Maritime Patrol Squadron (on the tailfin).

Bottom IAI-Convair 240N Cormorant (Kurmorn in Hebrew) of the Israeli Air Force at Ramat David Air Base in 1966.

The Convairs arrived in Israeli through circuitous circumstances. Both aircraft #945 and #946 had previously flown with Air Jordan, based out of Jerusalem. [1] When that Jordanian carrier folded in the Summer of 1961, both aircraft were transferred to US Foreign Air Transport Development Inc. The ex-Jordanian Convairs were relocated to Nicosia, Cyprus, for collection by American carrier, Johnson Flying Service (JFS) of Missoula. [2] But JFS never collected 'its' aircraft. Instead, the Convair pair next ended up at the Elbit facility in Haifa, Israel.

Elbit transformed the airframes into IAI-Convair 240N maritime surveillance aircraft. The Hebrew name Kurmorn (Cormorant) was applied but the two MPAs were invariably referred to as Convair Cormorant. The two IAI-Convair 240Ns served for just over a decade flying patrols from Ramat David AB. Both were replaced by jet-propelled IAI 1124N Sea Scan/Shahaf (Seagull) jets - MPA derivatives of the IAI 1124 Westwind bizjet.

___________________________________

[1] From 1959 to 1961, Air Jordan leased three FATDI-supplied Convair CV-240-2s - JY-ACA (c/n 71), JY-ACB (w/o when crashed outside Amman in 22 Jan 1959), and JY-ACC (c/n 84, ex-Iran Air).

[2] Johnson Flying Service was almost certainly a front company for the Central Intelligence Agency. But then, the Foreign Air Transport Development Inc. was also probably tied in with Air Branch - the aviation wing of the CIA's Special Activities Division.
"The trouble ... is that I am really doing it completely backward. Investigation is the only agenda I have. If people are asking for clarification, they will be out of luck." - William Gibson

Offline Jonesthetank

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Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2022, 08:42:35 PM »
 :smiley:

Nice!

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2022, 02:40:27 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline jcf

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Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2022, 05:20:17 AM »
Noice.  :smiley:

What's next? A turbo-prop Martin 4-0-4 development? According to Breihan/Piet/Mason's
Martin Aircraft 1909 - 1960 the 4-0-4 wings were designed from the start so that they
could be stressed for turbo-props. Perhaps the 6-0-6* with weapons bays etc. Sort of a
poor man's Mercator?

There evidently was a Martin proposal as a P-3 competitor, Model M-347, but info is sparse.

The 3-0-4 was a proposed turbo-prop version of the 3-0-3, which was a re-winged 2-0-2, one
was converted from a 2-0-2 but in the end they went for the more heavily redesigned 4-0-4.
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/martin-3-0-4.10433/

* The 5-0-5 was a modified 4-0-4 built as proof-of-concept.  ;)
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding
Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2022, 08:04:28 AM »
Stephen is on a roll, all these ideas that just have to be built ----- where will the time come from   :-X

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2022, 11:00:44 AM »
Jon: Thanks! This time, turboprops, yes. But not Martins ... I'm still on the Convairs ...

Robert: Cheers! I'd love to see the CP-109 in styrene (hint, hint)  ;)

_________________________________________

Marineflieger Convairs

The planned 1965 addition of the Bréguet Br. 1150 Atlantic to the Marineflieger fleet represented a major challenge. The large and powerful Atlantic was to replace the in-service Fairey Gannets. As a transition, it was decided to first introduce a twin-engined conversion trainer. Since Marineflieger flight crews had already begun twin-engined training on Luftwaffe Convair 440 transports, that type was an obvious starting point.

The take-over of four ex-Lufthansa Convair 340-68 airliners was organized. Since the planned Bréguets were propeller turbine types, the 340s were rebuilt with turboprop conversion kits supplied by Convair. Fitted with Rolls-Royce Dart engines, the turboprops became Convair 640-68s. The Marineflieger defined these converted turboprops as Seeaufklärungsflugzeug-Mittlerer Reichweite (SAF-MR) - emphasizing their medium-range maritime patrol role over training. The name Baltik was also applied but, invariably, the former airliners would be referred to as 'Convairs' in Marineflieger service.

To suit the Convairs for their new roles, these aircraft were also fitted with a surface-search radar in a ventral radome. Although non-retractable, this Ekco ASV Mark 19B radar was otherwise identical to the set on Marineflieger Fairey Gannet AS.4s. A Canadian CAE magnetic anomaly detector set was also added in a tubular tail boom. [1] Somewhat anachronistically, the converted Convairs also featured searchlights in their noses. It has been claimed that the clear cover for these lights was meant to confuse targeted vessels into believing that an approaching Convair was an Atlantic. More likely, the light was simply intended to improve the Convairs' performance in a secondary SAR role.

Image Marineflieger Convair 640-68 SAF-MR Baltik of Marinefliegergeschwader 3 'Graf Zeppelin'. This aircraft (c/n 460) had been registered D-ACEX when still with Lufthansa.

_________________________________________

[1] The Marineflieger Convair could be fitted with pods under the rear fuselage. These would be ground-loaded with sonobuoys for ASW practice flights. No armament was carried by the 640-68 SAF-MRs.
"The trouble ... is that I am really doing it completely backward. Investigation is the only agenda I have. If people are asking for clarification, they will be out of luck." - William Gibson

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding
Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2022, 09:19:30 PM »

Robert: Cheers! I'd love to see the CP-109 in styrene (hint, hint)  ;)



The CC-109 I have is a Proteus 1/72 multi-media kit, produced by Welsh Models. Proteus do quite a few variants of the Convair 440.

http://www.welshmodels.co.uk/PM008.html

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2022, 03:16:36 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2022, 06:49:43 AM »
The CC-109 I have is a Proteus 1/72 multi-media kit, produced by Welsh Models. Proteus do quite a few variants of the Convair 440.

http://www.welshmodels.co.uk/PM008.html


Nice! The lower decal option is virtually identical to that of the CP-109  :smiley:
"The trouble ... is that I am really doing it completely backward. Investigation is the only agenda I have. If people are asking for clarification, they will be out of luck." - William Gibson

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2022, 08:18:06 AM »
Exploración Aeromarítima - Bombardier CRJ-EAM Boreales

When the bottom fell out of the regional airline market, Canada's Export Development Corporation (EDC) found itself paying to store surplus Bombardier CRJ airframes in the Arizona desert. With no sign of a quick recovery of the regional airline market, EDC cast about for alternative roles for the 'Canadair Regional Jets'. The most successful adaptations were the CRJ200 'Package Freighter' conversions. Less well-known are the CRJ100 'special mission' military adaptations.

Dubbed the Bombardier Borealis (or Bombardier CRJ-M), most 'special mission' CRJs were fitted out by Field Aviation of Toronto as coast guard patrol aircraft or border surveillance types. As befit EDC's brief, none of these CRJ conversions saw service with any Canadian agencies. Instead, export customers with long maritime boundaries were the marketing focus. One such customer was the República de Chile - a nation with a 4,000 mile coastline to patrol and protect.

Chile's 'Aviación Naval' - properly the Servicio de Aviación de la Armada de Chile - took four modified CRJ100s into service as the Bombardier CRJ-EAM Boreales. [1] Although the Bombardiers were intended for soverignty patrol and survey work, the 'EAM' acronym was for Exploración Aeromarítima or maritime patrol. As such, the Bombardiers filled a slot between two other EAM types - the ASW-specialized Lockheed P-3ACH Orión and SAR-emphasizing Airbus C-295 ACH Persuader.

Routine maintenance for the CRJ-EAMs was contracted out to LATAM Airlines Chile of Santiago - its LATAM Cargo Chile having just taken on three CRJ-PFs for its shorter routes. For unknown reasons, a new squadron was stood up for the CRJ-EAMs - the Escuadrón de Exploración Aeromarítima VP-3 which was to be based at Con Cón/BAN Viña del Mar. [2] In Chilean service, the CRJ-EAM was judged a success - ideally suiting the fast soverignty patrol role. [3]

Image Bombardier CRJ-EAM Boreales of the Aviación Naval's VP-3. This is CRJ-EAM #991 but Aviación Naval do not currently wear individual aircraft numbers.

____________________________________________

[1] The Spanish name Boreales was little used. Perhaps the name was simply seen as inappropriate for the Southern Hemisphere.

[2] More accurately, VP-3 was reformed. That squadron had been established in 1977 but was later renumbered as VP-1.

[3] Beyond 'showing the flag', these patrols were meant to provide 'early warning' of impingements upon Chiean sovereignty. Once alerted, standing patrols would be performed by slower-flying Embraer P-111s or, if necessary, Airbus C295s.
"The trouble ... is that I am really doing it completely backward. Investigation is the only agenda I have. If people are asking for clarification, they will be out of luck." - William Gibson

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2022, 01:27:14 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Airliners to Maritime Patrol Aircraft
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2022, 08:20:18 AM »
I too wanted to have a go at a twin-engined Neptune. So here is a Lockheed P-7K2 Ventura II of No. 4 Squadron RNZAF. (My rationale for including it in this thread is the P-3 being descended from the Electra airliner.)

Here, the tail markings are a reference to No. 4's wartime squadron codes. The NZ4504 serial is also based on the serials applied to wartime RNZAF PV-1 Venturas.
"The trouble ... is that I am really doing it completely backward. Investigation is the only agenda I have. If people are asking for clarification, they will be out of luck." - William Gibson