Beyond The Sprues
Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Land => Topic started by: Jeffry Fontaine on October 14, 2012, 05:25:49 AM
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M114 Command and Reconnaissance Carrier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M114_armored_fighting_vehicle)
A great idea on paper but once it went into production it was found to have many faults.
Found a what-if without even trying if this image is to be believed (click on the thumbnail to see the [much] larger image at Wikipedia).
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/M114A1_armored_fighting_vehicle.JPG/220px-M114A1_armored_fighting_vehicle.JPG) (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/M114A2_armored_fighting_vehicle.jpg)
M114 with the cupola from an M60 series MBT which is a what if all by itself but upon closer inspection it is a what if within a what if as the cupola was normally armed with the M85 .50 machine gun which was designed to perform machine gunny things in the confines of that rather small cupola and in this image that cupola has been fitted with the barrel and forward section of the receiver group from an M2 .50 Browning HB machine gun. Interesting what you can find without trying. :)
Additional reading on the M114 at EagleHorse.org (Robert Stefanowicz / Randy Mitchell): M114 - The Armored Jeep (http://www.eaglehorse.org/3_home_station/m114/m114.htm)
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M114 armed with ATGMs...say some Milans. ;)
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Better off cutting down the hull and turning the thing into a stake truck with a flat bed for the cargo. :)
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Nice find!!!! Always liked the sloping look of the M114, but realistically it was always way too small .....
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Nice find!!!! Always liked the sloping look of the M114, but realistically it was always way too small .....
I had the opportunity to sit in the drivers seat of an M114 once upon a time in Germany when I was visiting another garrison to experience their obstacle course which just happened to be next to the motor pool/vehicle park. One of the units had an M114 on the wash rack and I asked the sergeant politely if I could experience the drivers seat of his very fine armoured vehicle ( :) ) I guess they were short of personnel for those things and he agreed to let me do just that while he started telling me about how much fun it would be to crew one of these vehicles on the off chance I would be interested in converting to the infantry branch. While he was promoting career opportunities I sat there and listened to that little Chevrolet 283 running next to me (the compartment wall was removed for maintenance) and realized that this was not a vehicle I wanted to be driving around in when being shot at. The 100 gallon gasoline tank was mounted in the forward left part of the vehicle in front of the driver position so any incoming fire would surely turn you into a crisp in no time at all. Kind of scary to think that the people that designed that vehicle would never consider placing the fuel cell in some other location like outside of the vehicle in two cells on either side of the rear access door. Anyway that was my one and only time up close and personal with an M114. I dare say that I like the idea of a little armored jeep type vehicle for all of the duties that it was supposed to perform but the automotive design truly sucked when it came to obstacles that would not slow down the larger M113 would have the M114 stopped completely.
I have one of the Accurate Armour M114A1E2/M114A2 kits in the stash and have hopes to build it some day when I get over my fear of resin kits.
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Hmmm...off road rally racing using tracked vehicles comes to mind.
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Remove the fuel cell from the front of the vehicle. Add two externally mounted fuel cells to the rear of the hull. Put the engine where the vehicle commander was positioned and move that guy to the front right where the engine used to be. Install a much larger turbocharged diesel from the Bradley series or maybe a Diamler Benz diesel from the Marder and and you might have yourself a fast little box with tracks.
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Jeffry: In crew and drivetrain layout, you are basically describing the recce Lynx (aka M113 C&R or M113½ Command and Reconnaissance Vehicle). The Lynx still used the Detroit Diesel 6V-53 though.
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So model-wise, take an existing M113 kit, lose a road wheel, then cut down the superstructure (or scratch build some/most of it). The round rear hatch is silly and inefficient; I would just use a smaller M113 style hatch. Maybe use the turret from a V-150.
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So model-wise, take an existing M113 kit, lose a road wheel, then cut down the superstructure (or scratch build some/most of it). The round rear hatch is silly and inefficient; I would just use a smaller M113 style hatch. Maybe use the turret from a V-150.
The M114 was fitted with the Cadillac-Gage turret during testing if I am not mistaken. There were several other variations on the theme that were also tested before finalizing on the arrangement that was to be produced.
As for that circular hatch at the rear, that may have been built that way to provide additional strength to the hull or it was just a dumb manufacturing decision. Always did look odd though.
I have thought about a cut down M113 on several occasions, just never got around to it. Hopefully that can change soon after my garage plus man-cave is built. :) ***
*** Garage never got built. Hospital stay and recovery from a bit of heart failure had me postponing the project. When I got back to the contractor after I recovered I was told that my $4000.00 deposit was lost/forfeit because I had waited too long on going forward with the build. So that telephone conversation ended with me launching a few expletives directed towards the contractor with regards to his intimate relations with his mother and I slammed the phone to end the very disappointing call. In lieu of a garage, I purchased a 20.0' ISO container which does work but hot in the summer and cold in the winter. But it does not leak when it rains. Yay!
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The M114 armed with an automatic 106mm RCL was a nice little vehicle - as Jeffry has pointed out - at least in theory. ;)
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You do know that if you have money (they ain't cheap) Accurate armour still sells the 1/35 M114 in two different configurations??? Just saying!
http://www.accurate-armour.com/search.cfm (http://www.accurate-armour.com/search.cfm)
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The new Revell 1/35 Puma looks like it can lend a hand in making a modernized M114.
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You do know that if you have money (they ain't cheap) Accurate armour still sells the 1/35 M114 in two different configurations??? Just saying!
[url]http://www.accurate-armour.com/search.cfm[/url] ([url]http://www.accurate-armour.com/search.cfm[/url])
Have got one... :))
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Put a gun (say 90mm or 105mm) on it in a fixed/semi-fixed mount and use it as a tank destroyer.
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Put a gun (say 90mm or 105mm) on it in a fixed/semi-fixed mount and use it as a tank destroyer.
You mean, like this?:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Strv_103c_a.jpg/800px-Strv_103c_a.jpg)
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Yep. Or this:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Bundesarchiv_B_145_Bild-F027421-0002%2C_Kanonenjagdpanzer_%28KanJPz%29_-_Jagdpanzer_Kanone_90_mm.jpg)
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One of the original T114 prototypes had a tank destroyer turret for the 105mm recoiless rifle.
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I remember that one. I have always liked the weapons mount on it.
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The M114 had a forward engine so it would be pretty hard to stick a forward facing gun in the hull. However it did have a pretty big turret ring so maybe a light tank, Scorpion style?
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The Germans however did rebuilt an M113 as an assault gun but lowering the hull and sticking a 105mm howitzer between the engine and the driver. But its a much bigger hull and without the ditch problem that did in the M114: too short, not enough clearance to the front of the track.
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... maybe a light tank, Scorpion style?
Top: M114 with Alvis turret from surplus Canadian Forces AVGP Cougar (those turrets were still for sale when I last looked if anyone needs a 'Pumpkin launcher' for the coming zombie apocalypse).
Bottom: M114 fire support vehicle with BMP-1 turret. One to donate to the allies?
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... maybe a light tank, Scorpion style?
Top: M114 with Alvis turret from surplus Canadian Forces AVGP Cougar (those turrets were still for sale when I last looked if anyone needs a 'Pumpkin launcher' for the coming zombie apocalypse).
Bottom: M114 fire support vehicle with BMP-1 turret. One to donate to the allies?
For use as a gunnery range target it would be ideal :)
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The proposed follow on M114/M113 replacement, the XM800, was an interesting looking vehicle too .......
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/XM800TFront-Right_zps47afe275.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/XM800T_at_Fort_Knox2_zps36e011ea.jpg)
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Agreed...to me though it almost looks like it is 'channelling' the M3 Stuart.
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Agreed...to me though it almost looks like it is 'channelling' the M3 Stuart.
Wow, no kidding! A modernized M3 Stuart!
(http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/11/10661/thumb_620x2000/xm800_2.jpg)
from http://www.moddb.com/mods/alternate-warfare/images/xm-800t1 (http://www.moddb.com/mods/alternate-warfare/images/xm-800t1)
The XM800W was a 6 wheeled version of the same requirement.
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Probably about as survivable as a Stuart too ....... I like my tanks like I like my cars, with a bit of real steel on em ;D
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Agreed...to me though it almost looks like it is 'channelling' the M3 Stuart.
Wow, no kidding! A modernized M3 Stuart!
Makes me wonder if a 75mm HMC variant is do-able......
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Makes me wonder if a 75mm HMC variant is do-able......
Is there a modern equivalent of the M116?
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Well, the Mod 56 105mm is probably the closest spiritual successor to the 75mm pack howitzer, but the US never used it. I think the M49 105mm Howitzer from the M52 HMC and LVTH-6 would be your best fit, though.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g56/adroth92/LVTH6-2_credited.jpg)
Interestingly enough, the weapon is still in use by the at least the Philippine Marine Corps today.
Cheers,
Logan
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One of the original T114 prototypes had a tank destroyer turret for the 105mm recoiless rifle.
It was autoloading from a magazine on the right-hand side. The loading action was interesting, the barrel, with the attached chamber slide forwards, a round slid in from the right and the chamber and barrel slid back, encasing the round until the breech was closed. When it fired, the process was repeated with breech opening, the case being ejected to the rear and then reloading occured.. Rather a complex arrangement but necessary because of the way the US Recoilless rifles worked.
The British developed a similar but different weapon (but I've never seen pictures of it, only read descriptions), with a rotary set of chambers, like a revolver. That was possible because they used the Rheinmetall frangible based case. Each chamber would align with the barrel, slide forward to make a seal and the round would fire. The cylinder would then retract, rotate to the next chamber and the empty case would then be ejected. The Germans used the some principle in their recoilless 20-30mm cannons.
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That wouldn't happen to be the same RR as the ones used here?
(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Thiel/Help/fv4401_01.jpg)
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Mmmm...me likely. Any more details?
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This is all I know (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1894.msg76146.html#msg76146)
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Ta
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That wouldn't happen to be the same RR as the ones used here?
Could be. Looks like a revolver system with those big boxes. It's secret though! ;D
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That M114 with the Alvis turret...... it looks a bit tall...... :D
How easy/difficult would it be to modify an AFV's internal scheme though (since some posts in this thread mentioned the idea of improving crew safety and survivability)?
(Yeah, I do like the idea of a M114-based mobile gun after hearing somewhere that a French- forgot which type- short 90mm gun turret was tested on the M114 as well.)
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The proposed follow on M114/M113 replacement, the XM800, was an interesting looking vehicle too .......
([url]http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii548/Queeg2/XM800T_at_Fort_Knox2_zps36e011ea.jpg[/url])
That puddle of oil looks a bit ominous ---- unless someone had parked a Harley Davidson there before hand ;D ;D ;D
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topic pinned until the issue with my making an edit to my OP can be unfooked.
Fixed...I think.
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Nope. Still giving me the run-around without the courtesy of a reach-around :/
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Seems to be you mate as I was just able to modify it without problem ... maybe I just have the power...
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Strange too! It appears to be this topic only that has this problem. :/
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I just read a comment in relation to the "M114 - American BMD" 😯
Maybe an east/west engine arrangement, making more usable hull space for troops....
A Hispano-Suize Serval 60/20 turret (with a 60mm gun/mortar, a 20mm cannon and a 7.62mm MG.....
Troop's (~x4)
M.A.D
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As an APC for infantry the M114 would be a huge fail. No space inside for a squad, let alone a five man fire team. Barely enough room for the original three man crew and all of their kit plus the OVE/OVM.
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(https://i.imgur.com/9Pggjn5.jpg)
I know what that illustration needs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POicJGqCEFI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POicJGqCEFI)
http://www.willeisnerandpsmagazine.com/W_E_L_C_O_M_E.html (http://www.willeisnerandpsmagazine.com/W_E_L_C_O_M_E.html)
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Decent M114 history here:
https://www.eaglehorse.org/home_station/hidden_stories/60s/m114/m114.htm#Part_1:_From_the_Minds_of_Engineers_... (https://www.eaglehorse.org/home_station/hidden_stories/60s/m114/m114.htm#Part_1:_From_the_Minds_of_Engineers_...)
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Built to take live fire from .50 cal in-bore devices for 105mm tank guns.
https://eltee1.tumblr.com/post/184073494724/scaled-tactical-target-vehicle-sttv-a