Author Topic: Missiles on gun tanks  (Read 64412 times)

Offline Weaver

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2013, 02:02:19 AM »
More Peruvian oddity.....

AMX-13 with Saggers. I think this is called an Escorpion:





AMX-13 with SS-11s on the back of the bustle. I think this is Peruvian, but I'm not really sure:



From here: http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/tracked-armoured-vehicles/p34105-amx-13-sm-1.html
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2013, 07:18:53 PM »
ENTACs on a Ferret. I think this was an Australian modification:



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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2013, 09:02:51 AM »
It was but it wasn't adopted widely.  I suspect that is a trials vehicle.  I don't remember seeing it when I visited Bandiana's Museum a couple of years ago nor was it at the RAAC Museum at Puckapunyal at the time, so I wonder where it's gone, unless it was a later arrival?

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #53 on: August 09, 2013, 09:49:32 AM »
M48 Patton with SS-11 ATGM:

« Last Edit: June 27, 2021, 01:10:48 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #54 on: August 09, 2013, 10:06:44 AM »
Nice find!

I think those may be SS-10s rather than SS-11s actually: the wing shape is different.

SS.10 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS.10

Funny what you find out isn't it? Looking at that page, I discovered that the man who designed the SS.10 and SS.11 later went on to make a failed assassination attempt on General de Gaulle, and ended up being the last man in France to be executed by firing squad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Bastien-Thiry

This is the attack portrayed at the start of The Day of the Jackal. His team fired at least 187 rounds at de Gaulle's car but failed to hit him. Maybe they should have used a missile.......
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #55 on: August 09, 2013, 10:30:54 AM »
A shot from behind of the AMX-13PA Escorpión that Weaver showed above. This is the Escorpión 1 with Malyutka 2M launchers. The Escorpión 2 upgrade switched to locally-made (but Ukrainian-designed) Barrier R-2 ATGWs.
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #56 on: March 13, 2014, 12:17:12 PM »
Apparently the North Korean P'okp'ung-ho tank can be armed with ATGM and MANPADS launchers.

I wonder if someone has to completely exit the vehicle to operate the MANPADS since the launcher appears to be just a shoulder-fired version mounted on a pole......
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 12:29:13 PM by dy031101 »
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2015, 01:59:26 PM »
4. Your main gun's no good against armor

Early Soviet 125mm gun tanks carried gun-launched missiles to compensate for the poor long-range accuracy (?) of early 125mm guns.

Western 105mm L7 gun doesn't seem to have the same reputation; if I want to put ATGMs on a 105mm gun tank, then, how far should the missile's effective range be in order to be useful?
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Weaver

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #58 on: December 11, 2015, 03:34:19 PM »
4. Your main gun's no good against armor

Early Soviet 125mm gun tanks carried gun-launched missiles to compensate for the poor long-range accuracy (?) of early 125mm guns.

Western 105mm L7 gun doesn't seem to have the same reputation; if I want to put ATGMs on a 105mm gun tank, then, how far should the missile's effective range be in order to be useful?

To be a worthwhile exercise, it'd have to be a heavy ATGM with a range of over 3000 metres at least. Something in the TOW/HOT/Swingfire category.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

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Offline dy031101

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #59 on: December 12, 2015, 05:47:44 AM »
Something in the TOW/HOT/Swingfire category.

Excellent  ;)

"Olifantization" of Vickers MBT Mk.II is a go  ;D

Could Swingfire be refitted with warhead from Spike-ER though?  Or would Spike-ER's warhead be too big?  Or is Swingfire's warhead better than I think?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 05:55:03 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Weaver

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #60 on: December 12, 2015, 06:58:56 AM »
Something in the TOW/HOT/Swingfire category.

Excellent  ;)

"Olifantization" of Vickers MBT Mk.II is a go  ;D

Could Swingfire be refitted with warhead from Spike-ER though?  Or would Spike-ER's warhead be too big?  Or is Swingfire's warhead better than I think?

Well they both have 170mm body diameters, so I don't see why not. If the Spike's warhead is heavier than Swingfire's, the latters TVC system might need modifications to deal with the C of G change.

Swingfire's warhead was roughly equivalent to an early TOW, but it never got the kind of updates that more popular missiles got, so it would probably be significantly behind the game today.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #61 on: December 12, 2015, 08:03:52 AM »
Something in the TOW/HOT/Swingfire category.

Excellent  ;)

"Olifantization" of Vickers MBT Mk.II is a go  ;D

Could Swingfire be refitted with warhead from Spike-ER though?  Or would Spike-ER's warhead be too big?  Or is Swingfire's warhead better than I think?

If the warhead is heavier on the Spike than the existing warhead on the Swingfire, you'll find all sorts of aerodynamic problems with it, including perhaps most significantly, decreased range.   The Swingfire's warhead was perfectly adequate when introduced but wasn't updated as the threat changed.

I wonder why no one has mentioned Malkara.  While it was big and a bit clumsy, it did have a 26lb HESH warhead.  Enough to make the day of the crew of any AFV it managed to hit rather short.   Interestingly, it was developed into a SAM the Seacat/Tigercat.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2015, 02:36:16 AM »
I wonder why no one has mentioned Malkara.  While it was big and a bit clumsy, it did have a 26lb HESH warhead.  Enough to make the day of the crew of any AFV it managed to hit rather short.

How would that warhead measure up as a demolition weapon as well?
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Weaver

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2015, 03:19:27 AM »
Something in the TOW/HOT/Swingfire category.

Excellent  ;)

"Olifantization" of Vickers MBT Mk.II is a go  ;D

Could Swingfire be refitted with warhead from Spike-ER though?  Or would Spike-ER's warhead be too big?  Or is Swingfire's warhead better than I think?

If the warhead is heavier on the Spike than the existing warhead on the Swingfire, you'll find all sorts of aerodynamic problems with it, including perhaps most significantly, decreased range.   The Swingfire's warhead was perfectly adequate when introduced but wasn't updated as the threat changed.

I wonder why no one has mentioned Malkara.  While it was big and a bit clumsy, it did have a 26lb HESH warhead.  Enough to make the day of the crew of any AFV it managed to hit rather short.   Interestingly, it was developed into a SAM the Seacat/Tigercat.

Yeah, but the thread is about missiles on gun tanks: how would you mount Malkara on a tank? It barely fitted on a Humber Pig.
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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2015, 06:02:42 AM »
I wonder...what about Kramer X-7 Rotkäppchen missiles added to a Panzer IV?

Taking this idea further, what about combining the standard Panzer IV or even Panzer III with one of these box launchers from the Cyber Hobby 1/35th Scale Raketenwerfer Fahrgestell PzKpfw IV:




I recognise that the rockets modelled here are supposed to be unguided ones.  But what if we say that they are wire guided ATGMs (maybe a version of the Rotkäppchen)? 
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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #65 on: December 16, 2015, 03:16:19 AM »
T-62 with launcher 2x 9M14 Malyutka/AT-3 Sagger as supplied by eshelon over on SecretProjects:

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #66 on: December 16, 2015, 08:41:33 AM »
Something in the TOW/HOT/Swingfire category.

Excellent  ;)

"Olifantization" of Vickers MBT Mk.II is a go  ;D

Could Swingfire be refitted with warhead from Spike-ER though?  Or would Spike-ER's warhead be too big?  Or is Swingfire's warhead better than I think?

If the warhead is heavier on the Spike than the existing warhead on the Swingfire, you'll find all sorts of aerodynamic problems with it, including perhaps most significantly, decreased range.   The Swingfire's warhead was perfectly adequate when introduced but wasn't updated as the threat changed.

I wonder why no one has mentioned Malkara.  While it was big and a bit clumsy, it did have a 26lb HESH warhead.  Enough to make the day of the crew of any AFV it managed to hit rather short.   Interestingly, it was developed into a SAM the Seacat/Tigercat.

Yeah, but the thread is about missiles on gun tanks: how would you mount Malkara on a tank? It barely fitted on a Humber Pig.

Tanks are much larger than the cut down Humber which was used to mount it for airborne use.   I'd expect two of them on the turret rear would work quite well.   An armoured box launcher perhaps?

Offline jcf

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #67 on: December 16, 2015, 09:04:02 AM »
Something in the TOW/HOT/Swingfire category.

Excellent  ;)

"Olifantization" of Vickers MBT Mk.II is a go  ;D

Could Swingfire be refitted with warhead from Spike-ER though?  Or would Spike-ER's warhead be too big?  Or is Swingfire's warhead better than I think?

If the warhead is heavier on the Spike than the existing warhead on the Swingfire, you'll find all sorts of aerodynamic problems with it, including perhaps most significantly, decreased range.   The Swingfire's warhead was perfectly adequate when introduced but wasn't updated as the threat changed.

I wonder why no one has mentioned Malkara.  While it was big and a bit clumsy, it did have a 26lb HESH warhead.  Enough to make the day of the crew of any AFV it managed to hit rather short.   Interestingly, it was developed into a SAM the Seacat/Tigercat.

Yeah, but the thread is about missiles on gun tanks: how would you mount Malkara on a tank? It barely fitted on a Humber Pig.

Tanks are much larger than the cut down Humber which was used to mount it for airborne use.   I'd expect two of them on the turret rear would work quite well.   An armoured box launcher perhaps?

It would be a big box.  :-\

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Offline Weaver

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #68 on: December 17, 2015, 12:52:39 AM »

It would be a big box.  :-\

Weight   93.5 kg (206 lb)
Length   1.9 m (6 ft 3 in)
Diameter   203 mm (8.0 in)

Wingspan of 800mm too. Basically, it's a half a Sparrow.

I've offered up some kit bits to have a look at this, and you probably could get a couple of Malkaras onto the back of an MBT turret. They'd raise the profile, be pretty vulnerable, you'd only have two, and they'd be a pig to reload though.
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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #69 on: December 17, 2015, 03:01:31 AM »
Centurion with SS-11s:



Centurion with Swingfire:



Patton with Swingfire:



Patton with SS-11s:

« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 03:04:31 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #70 on: December 17, 2015, 03:11:24 AM »
Anyone know what an R-8 is?

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #71 on: December 17, 2015, 03:19:47 AM »
Re Malkara, one could potentially mount a couple on the rear of a Centurion or similar, possibly even using the same launcher arrangement as the FV 1620 Humber "Hornet":





In such a case, I would imagine the Malkara's would be used as the 'first strike' weapon to be fired at maximum range before the main gun came into full effective range or perhaps to take out rear echelon vehicles.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #72 on: December 17, 2015, 07:06:07 AM »
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #73 on: December 17, 2015, 08:31:32 AM »
Anyone know what an R-8 is?




I'd suggest it's either an experimental design that never entered production or a figurative drawing, like the tank it's attached to.  Reminds me of the SSM-A-23 Dart in configuration.

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Re: Missiles on gun tanks
« Reply #74 on: December 18, 2015, 03:02:08 AM »
Does anyone know of a 1/35 (or 1/48) kit of the FV 1620 Humber "Hornet"?
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