Author Topic: Warbird tail-sitters  (Read 19507 times)

Offline Tophe

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Warbird tail-sitters
« on: June 02, 2015, 12:18:58 AM »
My project here is to draw tail-sit dérivatives of famous warbirds (fighters I think).
I know there was a true Supermarine tail-sit project made from a Spitfire, and I built a Twin Yuriev Kit-1 (Unicraft 1/72, derivative of the Soviet P-39 Aerokobra), but I plan to add many more, with twin-fuselage rather often. ;)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2015, 12:45:12 AM »
The P-82ST was the first of them (Twin-Tailstang):

Offline jcf

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2015, 12:50:51 AM »
As three points define a plane, and a three-legged stool is the simplest, stablest form,
does it not follow that tail-sitters should have three fuselages?
 ;)
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Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2015, 01:43:19 AM »
3-fuselage tail-sit Mustang? I built one in the past, but I am willing to draw one more soon.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2015, 12:48:57 AM »
Before I try drawing a 3-fuselage one, I modified the twin-fuselage classical one:
seeing the Unicraft 1/72 Kit-1/P-39 tail-sitter with huge rotors/propellers, I realised my Twin-Tailstang needed bigger blades, but the other rotor provides a limit (intermeshing rotors from different engines is a crash recipe), so I lengthened the port nose, and now they do not intermesh, even with increased size:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2015, 02:49:32 AM »
I am not sure the distance between rotors is big enough for a safe flight:


Offline Modelling_Mushi

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2015, 05:59:34 PM »
Tophe, they could be counter-rotating intermeshing airscrews, like the Kamov helicopters have.
Were going to be finished in 2020 BEFORE I start any da*!#d new ones - Maybe When Hell Freezes Over - again? - CF-IDS Wolverine; Douglas Mawson; Bubba Wants a Fishin' Rig; NA F-100

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Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2015, 02:23:30 AM »
Thanks for this technical detail.
On the 3-fuselage one, required by jcf (drawing below), should the third part have a double counter-rotating rotor? (for balance and/or for fun...)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2015, 12:52:23 PM »
On the 3-fuselage one, required by jcf (drawing below), should the third part have a double counter-rotating rotor? (for balance and/or for fun...)
As nobody seemed crazy enough to confirm (or deny), I have tried, and this it: I recognize the mass-produced Twin-Tailstang, built in 100,000 copies by North-American, Misubishi and Yakovlev (33,334+33,333+33,333 copies):

Uh? When did this manufacturing work occur? I don't know in "years" (in Christian and Japanese calendars), but this was last night ;)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2015, 01:25:31 PM »
Ahem, maybe... this worldwide P-82ST (XP-82ST, YP-82ST and mass-produced P-82ST then F-82ST) was all a dream... :icon_crap: :-\ ???
BUT the P-51STD and P-51STB below were true-life story (all North-American built, 10,051 copies + 51 copies):

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2015, 11:22:49 PM »
Opposite to the Tail-Stang was the Teru-Zero, and opposite to the Twin-Tail-Stang was the Tsuin-Teru-Zero: (guaranteed 100% true?)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2015, 02:10:14 AM »
Many German archives have been destroyed, and I found no trace of a single fuselage twin-rotor Bf-109  :icon_crap: , but a zwilling Bf-109Z tail-sitter (single-seater) has been built and flown:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2015, 06:43:29 PM »
The best Tail-Stangs were produced by Sikorsky (PH-51D and PH-51B). 51+5 copies were built for the Philippines. They had a single main rotor, completed by an auxiliary antitorque rotor:

EDIT: according to last minutes discovery, it seems 5 copies were also built and sent to protect the PHarm of the US president Roosevelt (for rest after work)
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 07:14:13 PM by Tophe »

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2015, 12:09:01 PM »
I found in my old archives P-38 helicopters:

but I am sure there were P-38 VTOL airplanes too, I am searching again.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2015, 12:28:05 PM »
Yes, at last I found the main PV-38 verticalning, but there were (at least) 2 other ones, wait...

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2015, 12:12:28 PM »
The P-38TR Twin-Rotor-Lightning was a two-seater:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2015, 07:07:57 PM »
The P-38TR-1 was the single-seat version, more "normal":

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2015, 01:07:12 AM »
The V-38NL was another version, but nobody remembers what NL was meaning, maybe No Ladder (for the pilot to climb in the cockpit). The work of Historian is not easy when archives have been destroyed (or glued)...

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2015, 01:48:25 PM »
The VTOL V-38A was not a tail-sitter and was requiring a too big area on the ground, so its 4 fans were rotated into the V-38ATL TaiLsitter (no relation with the French "Avions Très Légers" = Very Light Airplanes, décades later):

EDIT: Ahem, I am not sure the connection booms/rear fans is right here above on the right, I will probably need to make booms passing through the center of the fans... :icon_crap:
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 01:50:57 PM by Tophe »

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2015, 04:08:51 PM »
Here is/was the corrected V-38ATL:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2015, 12:49:07 AM »
Aesthetically, the best tailsitter of this time may have been the Macchi Mc-205BP Bifusoliera Posacoda:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2015, 07:05:13 PM »
The TCV-51D was not exactly a "warbird" but sort of. It was a golden eggplane cartoon toy 1/144 for children of billionnaires, in order to get big money for building the scale 1 serious ones:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2015, 06:41:56 PM »
The TCV-51D was not a "82" Twin-Tailstang model, but a "51D" scale model of this DD-51D Double-Tailstang:

Offline Modelling_Mushi

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2015, 12:23:10 PM »
Liking them all Tophe, you just keep cranking them out, don't know how you do it  :)
Were going to be finished in 2020 BEFORE I start any da*!#d new ones - Maybe When Hell Freezes Over - again? - CF-IDS Wolverine; Douglas Mawson; Bubba Wants a Fishin' Rig; NA F-100

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Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2015, 01:13:53 PM »
Thanks a lot, Master Mushi!

Well, the tail-sitting focus went in other directions too, mainly for stability on the tiny landing areas. With rear wings like on the PC-51D and B Canarstang:

EDIT: "P.C." for Personal Computer (instead of Pursuit Canard) was existing, but this was science-fiction, pure fantasy (like a computer giant machine in each home!!!), while tail-sitter airplanes were a very serious affair...
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 01:17:55 PM by Tophe »

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2015, 01:36:44 PM »
On this great invention road, were designed the Deltastang DP-51D and 51B, discarding tailplanes like willing to discover the secret of our Flying Saucers!:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2015, 02:27:32 PM »
Look: Earth-humanoids, for curing the stability problem of the Deltastangs, could have invented this!:

Like Flying Saucers! of their own!
(and their witch-doctors were willing to apply mental force instead of piston/fuel/rotors, coming to our level of technology! so these awful two-feet animals could have comen here and invaded all! Fortunately, starvation killed all men. Saving Civilization, saving our red planet. Thanks Göd!)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2015, 06:14:26 PM »
On this great invention road, were designed the Deltastang DP-51D and 51B

Like North American made the Deltastang tailsitters from simple P-51s, the Soviet made the Yuriev Kit-1 delta tailsitter from P-39 Aerokobra
(see the 1/72 great model at http://www.unicraft.biz/on/kit1/kit1.htm )
But the capitalistic Bell engineers made a cheaper tailsitter from the standard P-39 Airacobra: V-39 Tailsacobra:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2015, 07:15:30 PM »
the Soviet made the Yuriev Kit-1 delta tailsitter from P-39 Aerokobra
(see the 1/72 great model at http://www.unicraft.biz/on/kit1/kit1.htm )
As well, the Spitfire tailsitter is famous ("Real-World" project, they say, I don't know what that means), but the 2-seat Twin-Spitfire tailsitter is a consequence of the tail-sit fever I described in the Stories topic http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5501.0 ...

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2015, 03:57:20 PM »
The XV-38A, X and C were other Lightning tail-sitters (the C was the reason why the French SNECMA paid copyright to Lockheed for the well-known project Coléoptère):

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2015, 04:42:50 AM »
Love these latest iterations  :-*
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Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2015, 07:03:31 AM »
Thanks! I plan to draw next the "real" Spitfire tailsitter (that I scanned recently to send to a SecretProjects friend). This is almost "too much true" for being here, but it could be the basis for twin-fuselage derivative or other dreams...

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2015, 12:51:05 PM »
Here are they:
- The Supermarine Spitfire 4040 is a VTOL (unbuilt) true project, found as 3-view in the book "Spitfire, the History" by Morgan+Shacklady, Key publishing
see also http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3602.0.html
- The Supermarine Twin-Spitfire 4042 is a VTOL dream that occured in the 1944 tail-sit fever "glue141" explained at http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5501.0
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 12:59:35 PM by Tophe »

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2015, 03:00:12 PM »
Of course, before the Supermarine 4040, rather far from a standard Spitfire, were the Ultramarine Spitfire Mk.14T and Mk.22T tailsitters:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2015, 03:25:25 PM »
In the Twin-Spitfire family, of course there were many other different projects of tailsitters: half-bubble, double-bubble, single-bubble, bubble-less-single-seater, no-seat-UAV:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2015, 07:58:31 PM »
Of course, engineers of the 1940s were clever and wise: they understood perfectly that tailsitting was not the only VTOL-way. But the tilting-fan test (take off position on the left, theoretical cruise in the center) failed to take off actually, and the final P-38 fan-VTOL became another tailsitter (on the right below)...

Offline Tophe

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Re: Warbird tail-sitters
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2015, 09:17:17 PM »
The HA-38 "Harrier" was also a famous failure, having tail-sit derivatives: