Author Topic: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs  (Read 20745 times)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2017, 06:35:31 AM »
I am just joking, I am not a Master of design giving lessons to professional designers... ;)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2017, 01:54:55 PM »
When our fried ericr was a little boy, his family asked him: “when you grow old, what aviation will be? (according to you)”… The answer of the little boy was simple “no more grey/green/brown sad aircraft: they will all be simple in the sky: yellow/red/blue”… Well, this intended future never happened at scale 1 but ericr’s collection of models 1/72 & 1/48 all respected this law. So it was retrofuture at scale 1 and not true anticipation at other scales…
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 04:36:26 PM by Tophe »

Offline Tophe

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2017, 04:36:48 PM »
With the Caravelle (1955), HS Trident (1962), DH125 (1962), Vickers VC-10 (1962), Mystère 20 (1963), Boeing 727 (1963), in 1964 the future seemed all devoted to tail jet engines.

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #53 on: August 15, 2017, 06:29:31 AM »
You've got some very interesting concepts there, mon ami!

Hard to pick a favorite, but I think I like the look of the first one with the engines on the ends of the tail planes best.

Your imagination truly knows know boundaries, Tophe!

Brian da Basher

Offline Tophe

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #54 on: August 15, 2017, 08:23:53 PM »
Thanks !
In 1941, the great success of the Fokker D.XXIII (1939) in Europe and Moskalyev SAM-13 in USSR (1940), after the tandem Bolkhovitinov Sparka (1937), had announced the true obvious future : now all* aircraft will be twin-engined with the drag of a single-engined one. Swiss independent experts (from Dornier Co.) confirmed that, still in 1941, 100% sure.

*: except 4-engined planes, heavier, with the drag of 2 engines:
 
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 12:17:51 AM by Tophe »

Offline Tophe

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2017, 12:16:39 AM »
Many times in aviation, with Eng. Dunne, Horten, Northrop and their counterparts in USSR, voices claimed “future aircraft will be at 100% flying wings, no need of tail!”. Well, now such B-2 and a few others are produced but this remains a minority. After the XP-56 project selection, for instance, the future could have been a mass-production of 25,000 P-51FW, winning the war… All aviation would have been transformed.

Of course, Lockheed "will" follow the new direction:


Offline ericr

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2017, 12:35:02 AM »
When our fried ericr was a little boy, his family asked him: “when you grow old, what aviation will be? (according to you)”… The answer of the little boy was simple “no more grey/green/brown sad aircraft: they will all be simple in the sky: yellow/red/blue”… Well, this intended future never happened at scale 1 but ericr’s collection of models 1/72 & 1/48 all respected this law. So it was retrofuture at scale 1 and not true anticipation at other scales…


 ;D ;D ;D

Offline Tophe

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2017, 01:33:21 AM »
Thanks!

And you know, as far as I am concerned I misjudged the future as well... In 2013 August 9th, the film Disney "Planes" was projected and I told myself: now (tomorrow) all airplanes of the World will open their eyes, smile... Now in 2017, this has not turned true, yet...

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #58 on: August 17, 2017, 03:05:53 AM »
Really like the "flying wing" look on these  :smiley:
"They know you can do anything, So the question is, what don't you do?"

-David Fincher

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #59 on: August 17, 2017, 05:40:30 AM »
Great stuff, Tophe!

Love the pink "Planes" version!

Brian da Basher

Offline Tophe

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #60 on: August 18, 2017, 01:16:53 AM »
Thanks!

The B-17/24/25/26/29 were almost all the same, boring, then appeared in 1944 the weird XB-44, that seemed to show the future will be different for heavy military planes : 2 pusher propellers, 2 cockpits… (as a basis, than can be doubled for 4 engined load).

Offline jcf

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #61 on: August 18, 2017, 01:38:47 AM »
Nice Tophe.  :smiley:

And of course there was the Cloudster II, another project for the post-war private aviation
'boom' that didn't happen. Also the proposed airliner versions of the layout, the original DC-8.







“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
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more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Tophe

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #62 on: August 19, 2017, 12:24:30 AM »
Thanks a lot for those futuristic pushers (of the past) that I did not know (or that I had forgotten)…

The XB-36 showed also a very different layout for the future, and the YB-38A, Z, Z2 will probably be designed this way:

Offline AXOR

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #63 on: August 19, 2017, 06:05:48 AM »
Excellent that YB-38 Z2 !
Alex

Offline Tophe

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #64 on: August 19, 2017, 10:10:39 PM »
Thanks!

And when the Twin-Mustang was ordered (and the Bf-109Z/Me-609/Fiat bifusoliera/...), the future seems to belong to twin-fuselage planes: (thanks to ysi_maniac at
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=765.90 )

Offline Tophe

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2017, 01:49:28 AM »
Slanting views to complete:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #66 on: August 20, 2017, 12:14:35 PM »
And here was the future other Twin-Lightning, after the success of the Twin-Mustang:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #67 on: August 20, 2017, 04:24:03 PM »
In 1945, the top engineer of Supermarine wrote an article : “the future is contrarotative propellers! (axial, tractive)”, after the success of his Spitfire with such a feature. He said also that the Airacobra has shown that shafts and gears are reliable, so contrarotative propellers could be the best solution for a twin-engine plane also (no matter were are the engines, axial).

Offline Tophe

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #68 on: August 20, 2017, 11:10:17 PM »
No, let us be serious: in 1944, when appeared the Me-262 in the sky, it was clear that the future is the jet. “Every existing fighter must be transformed in a jet version, urgently!” wrote the main editorialist in “Aeroplanes for enthusiast modellers” magazine.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 11:19:39 PM by Tophe »

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #69 on: August 21, 2017, 04:02:56 AM »
I love the left side one the best  :-*
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Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #70 on: August 21, 2017, 07:03:36 AM »
I love the left side one the best  :-*

Concur, Mr Tomcat. It's like the love-child of a Lightning and a Meteor.

I never cease to be amazed by Tophe's boundless imagination!

Brian da Basher

Offline Tophe

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #71 on: August 22, 2017, 12:38:53 AM »
Thanks for the comments.

Today I had the great pleasure to receive a warbird book gift from a friend. There is a mysterious picture (after Photopaint zoom/clicks by myself): an asymmetric single-engined P-38 Lightning (P-38/1m “monomoteur” for the French “Armée de l’Air”). This is retrofuture because in 1940, French observers saw the Bf-110 twin-engined fighter defeated in the sky and concluded “fighters will never be twin-engined anymore”, requiring a future correction of the P-38 design. Thanks Jimmy!

(the refused one being:)

Offline Tophe

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #72 on: August 23, 2017, 12:27:06 PM »
Of course, there was not a single answer to the requirement of a future “single-engined Lightning” (tractor part with a free nose):

Offline Tophe

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #73 on: August 26, 2017, 01:30:09 AM »
And of course there was the Cloudster II, another project for the post-war private aviation
I have looked for the Cloudster II (of 1947) origin: it was a half New Cloudster (of 1945). In 1945, the rule was: "every civilian airplane will be twin-engined, for safety obvious reason". And many designers took example on the P-38 Lightnings' layout:

Offline Tophe

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Re: Retrofuture Lightnings & Mustangs
« Reply #74 on: August 26, 2017, 02:49:25 PM »
"every civilian airplane will be twin-engined, for safety obvious reason". And many designers took example on the P-38 Lightnings' layout:
Words of that time: "and military airplanes will copy the best of these civilian designs"...