Author Topic: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 21009 times)

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #50 on: September 08, 2013, 12:03:15 PM »
oooh, now that is nice!   :D

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #51 on: September 09, 2013, 12:18:44 AM »
I like to picture it as a pair of heavy interceptors...
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #52 on: September 09, 2013, 12:20:41 AM »
How many Matras?   
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2013, 12:32:16 AM »
I like the RCAF version myself.  :icon_ninja:

Load it up with AIM-47s or AIM-54s. 
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I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #54 on: April 30, 2014, 03:10:37 AM »
Random idea:  Venezuelan Mirage IV in this sort of scheme:



Enough to make the USA a little more concernedůmaybe ;)
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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2018, 04:51:23 AM »
Apparently there were plans for variants with either RR Speys or TF-106 engines.  What about some other options:

  • J79
  • M53 - presumably a late '70s/early - mid '80s update
  • GE110 - presumably an update to the TF-106 variant
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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #56 on: April 01, 2018, 05:03:10 AM »
Some photos of the Mirage III and Mirage IV together to give a sense of the size difference:



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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2018, 08:19:16 AM »
Apparently there was a real world study, that never went beyond that, for a Mirage IVRJ version for Israel.  It would have been optimized for reconnaissance by with a secondary ground attack capability.  It suggests several interesting whif possibilities.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2018, 12:24:32 PM »
I keep thinking of an Israeli Mirage IV with a recessed Pave Tack pod and LGB's hung on combined fuel tank/ejector rack units under the wings.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2018, 06:35:48 PM »
Apparently there was a real world study, that never went beyond that, for a Mirage IVRJ version for Israel.  It would have been optimized for reconnaissance by with a secondary ground attack capability.  It suggests several interesting whif possibilities.

Considering Israel is supposed to have nuclear weapons, it would be a way to deliver them too ---. The Heller 1/72 kit I have comes with a 'shape' ----

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #60 on: October 19, 2018, 03:07:54 AM »
I keep thinking of an Israeli Mirage IV with a recessed Pave Tack pod and LGB's hung on combined fuel tank/ejector rack units under the wings.

I have considered similar for a late '80s era RAAF version.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #61 on: October 23, 2018, 09:55:44 AM »
According to the 50tj Anniversary history of Dassault, the Mirage IVR was a recce and conventional strike variant with all nuclear capability removed.  It apparently was proposed to Australia and Germany.  The Germans wanted enhanced fuel tankage and, for commonality with their fighter fleet, J79 engines.  Stretching the fuselage and adding the cooling scoops for the J79s (IIRC, they run hotter than the ATAR 9K engines) would make a nice whif, especially if other countries operating J79-powered aircraft took an interest.

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #62 on: October 24, 2018, 02:47:42 AM »
Any drawings?
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #63 on: October 24, 2018, 03:20:25 AM »
Any drawings?
Unfortunately, no.  Just the written descriptions.

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #64 on: October 24, 2018, 11:11:23 PM »
According to the 50tj Anniversary history of Dassault, the Mirage IVR was a recce and conventional strike variant with all nuclear capability removed.  It apparently was proposed to Australia and Germany.  The Germans wanted enhanced fuel tankage and, for commonality with their fighter fleet, J79 engines.  Stretching the fuselage and adding the cooling scoops for the J79s (IIRC, they run hotter than the ATAR 9K engines) would make a nice whif, especially if other countries operating J79-powered aircraft took an interest.
Flying an aircraft designed for ATAR 9s on J-79s would have been sporty, indeed. The J-79 has 50% more thrust on burner than the ATAR 9. In fact, the J-79 has almost as much thrust "dry" as the ATAR does on full reheat.

If the German government had been willing to accept a small max speed decrease, they probably could have gotten a supercruising Mirage IV with far greater range if they used J-79s but completely deleted the afterburner cans and either cut the fuselage shorter to reduce form drag and/or increased tankgage and moved the engines back and shortened the inlet ducts to suit.

Imagine a Mirage IV with a, say, Mach 1.9 sustained speed (instead of 2.2) cruising at that speed for the entire range of 1000 miles (instead of 775 mi for the regular Mirage IV). Much more effective and harder to intercept in the mid 60s to 80s period than a subsonic cruise plus 5 minutes at M2.2 in and out of the target.

Using a dry thrust Spey would have been even better for range, but would have needed deeper fuselage for the larger engines and larger inlets, possibly costing a bit more speed at the top end, but likely permitting that speed to be maintained for even longer given the much greater economy of a turbofan.

Smells like very WHIFable concepts...

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #65 on: October 25, 2018, 12:55:48 AM »
I believe a reheated ATAR 9K-10 is not that far off a reheated J79, 15,800 lbf as opposed to 15,600 - 17,900 lbf depending on J79 version.

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #66 on: October 25, 2018, 02:37:15 AM »
Is there anything on the significantly larger Mirage IVB design, powered by two SNECMA license-built Pratt & Whitney J75 engines and having a wing area of 120 m▓ (1,290 sq ft) compared to 70 m▓ (750 sq ft) of the prototype IV, as well as a speed of Mach 2.4 and a gross weight of 64,000 kilograms (140,000 lb)?




Or the Mirage IV-106 variant with 2 SNECMA TF106 (license-built Pratt and Whitney) engines, an enlarged 105,000 gross-weight fuselage, terrain-avoidance radar, and armed with a proposed French version of the American Douglas GAM-87 Skybolt air-launched ballistic missile?
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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #67 on: October 25, 2018, 02:44:08 AM »
BTW, the Mirage IVB has been modelled:



See here for more details.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #68 on: October 25, 2018, 06:50:49 AM »
Is there anything on the significantly larger Mirage IVB design, powered by two SNECMA license-built Pratt & Whitney J75 engines and having a wing area of 120 m▓ (1,290 sq ft) compared to 70 m▓ (750 sq ft) of the prototype IV, as well as a speed of Mach 2.4 and a gross weight of 64,000 kilograms (140,000 lb)?




Or the Mirage IV-106 variant with 2 SNECMA TF106 (license-built Pratt and Whitney) engines, an enlarged 105,000 gross-weight fuselage, terrain-avoidance radar, and armed with a proposed French version of the American Douglas GAM-87 Skybolt air-launched ballistic missile?
The Dassault 50th Anniversary book has three-views of the Mirage IV 01, the Mirage IVA, the Mirage IVB, and the Minerve IV with Gamma II missile.

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #69 on: October 26, 2018, 02:14:39 AM »
Which book is that?
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #70 on: October 26, 2018, 03:24:49 AM »
Which book is that?
It's a two-volume boxed set, 1945-1995, 50 Years of Aeronautical Adventure and is a 50th anniversary history of Dassault.  Book 1 covers "The Corporation" and Book 2 covers "The Programs".  It's published by Editiones Du Chene and is quite the massive boxed set.

I purchase mine through Amazon (only place I've seen it).

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #71 on: April 14, 2020, 03:33:37 AM »
One from Secret Projects that deserved to be posted here:

It all started with this quote by Paul:

Quote
"Dassault and British Aircraft Corp. have made a presentation of the Mirage 4 powered with Rolls-Royce Tyne engines" Aviation Week, 26 July 1965.

To which Chris Gibson has responded to with this (amongst other iterations):



Original thread
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Offline finsrin

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #72 on: April 14, 2020, 04:13:01 AM »
OH GOSH !      Is Mirage IV in stash.

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #73 on: October 04, 2020, 03:22:19 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #74 on: March 21, 2021, 03:17:29 AM »
Random idea - Mirage IV anti shipping version carrying two Exocets
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