Author Topic: Apophenia's Offerings  (Read 574497 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2725 on: April 30, 2021, 02:06:09 AM »
What about a gun pod on one wing tip - maybe a derivative of some thing like below:




Might need to be prepared for asymmetric effects if only on one side though.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2726 on: April 30, 2021, 04:56:21 AM »
Actually, replacing the tip tanks with missile rails would involve some plumbing changes, too, very much like those done for Longhorn wing.  In fact, Learjet 24-218 was the first flying testbed for that wing so I know the changes can be done.  personally, I'd rather see the weapons on wing hard points and the tip tanks left as they are (with appropriate mods to their front ends).

Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2727 on: April 30, 2021, 06:40:20 AM »
Greg: I like those gun pods! Any idea what the weapons mounted are? I'm thinking, for 'Learjet interceptors', guns would be mainly for warning shots. So maybe, if aimed wide enough, asymmetric effects wouldn't be a major issue?

Evan: Thanks, it was the Longhorn I was thinking of. I like the look of the modified wingtip tanks. BUt, just to try something different, I had a go at LAU-128/A launch rails on the wing tips. Fuel could be made up with a new cabin fuel tank mounted behind the radar op's position. I haven't shown underwing racks on this version but they'd be handy for hanging ECM pods from (AN/ALQ-131?).

dy031101 had mentioned left-over AN/APG-66V(3) from the F-16V programme. Although this one isn't Taiwanese, I wanted to try a nose installation mod. My scaling was quite rough and I'm wondering if the radome might a little too big. Even if it is, this is going to be one long-nosed puppy!

The only other change was ditiching the hush kits. I had left 'em on the ROCAF Lear (Taiwan being so densely-populated). Still, leaving the hush kits off must be good for a few extra knots.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2728 on: April 30, 2021, 08:17:19 AM »
If you are doing away with the tip tanks, perhaps underwing tanks, as flown on 24-218 for a while, located on the inboard hard point on each wing, would work.  Mind you, you would likely need to remanufacture the wings, replacing spar caps made from lots of bent-up sheet metal with the machined extrusions used on the original FFA fighter design.

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2729 on: May 01, 2021, 02:18:36 AM »
The pods shown above contain 30mm DEFA cannon.  One could also go with something lighter such as a 7.62mm one for 'warning' purposes:

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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2730 on: May 01, 2021, 03:22:39 AM »
The pods shown above contain 30mm DEFA cannon.  One could also go with something lighter such as a 7.62mm one for 'warning' purposes:

Thanks. Yep, the 7.62 mm pods (loaded with plenty of tracer rounds) would do the trick  :smiley:
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2731 on: May 01, 2021, 01:58:47 PM »
The pods shown above contain 30mm DEFA cannon.  One could also go with something lighter such as a 7.62mm one for 'warning' purposes:

Thanks. Yep, the 7.62 mm pods (loaded with plenty of tracer rounds) would do the trick  :smiley:

100% tracer, that should scare the pants off 'em! ;D
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2732 on: May 02, 2021, 11:25:45 AM »
No backstory here ... just look for an excuse to WHIF an F-4 update.

Major changes include new outer wing panels of extended span but reduced dihedral. On the wingtips are LAU-128 rails for Sidewinders (inner wing racks can take additional AIM-9s). Not shown here are AIM-120s launchers on the sides of the conformal belly tank (which is smaller than that of Boeing's Phantom 2000 proposal).

Other airframes changes are canard surfaces (similar to those on the YF-4E demonstrator). Intakes have been changed to reduce radar signature (and just 'cuz I like diverterless intakes). The vertical tail has a fin-top ECM pod and has been extended slightly by an antenna above.

Faired onto the upper nose is an IRST (Infra Red Search and Track) sensor (inspired by the CF-101). Nose radome remains the same ... but there would have been a range of radar upgrade options.

Powerplants are twin Rolls-Royce RB.188 Super Spey turbofans - slightly re-scaled RB.168s designed as 'drop-in' replacements for General Electric J79 turbojets.
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2733 on: May 04, 2021, 07:25:38 AM »
Another robunos rip-off ... this time, based on the de Havilland Australia Sun Moth:

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9672.0

The de Havilland Australia Sun Moth II name is all but forgotten today. A major improvement over the original, more cramped Sun Moth I, the prototype Sun Moth II was let down by its underpowered de Havilland Gipsy Six engine. [1] And that might have been the end of the story had the RAAF not experienced some overheating problems with the Armstrong Siddeley Cheetah in their Avro 643 Cadet biplane trainers.

In anticipation of new RAAF Avro Anson patrol aircraft, Canberra funded an improved version of the British engine. The result was the Commonwealth CAC-7 Cricket [2] 7-cylinder radial - with the same displacement as the British Cheetah but with enlarged cooling fins on the cylinder barrels. [3] The Cricket did all that was hoped for it but, before the first Anson entered RAAF service, a pre-production CAC-7 was used to re-engine the prototype DHA-2 Sun Moth II. The intended market, once again, was the Australian Aerial Medical Service. But the 'Flying Doctors' lost out to the RAAF.

In service, the DHA-2M became the de Havilland Australia Dingo - famed for its low-level air drops to jungle-fighting troops in New Zealand. The 375 hp CAC-7 Cricket provided enough power for the Dingo to hang over the Diggers' position on its Handley Page slats while dropping urgent supplies through its belly hatch. (Such mad aerial antics probably being responsible for the DHA-2M's 'Drongo' nickname.)

Illustrated is the prototype 'Panacea II after its conversion to DHA-2M standards.

____________________________________

[1] That original, inline layout being immortalized in the de Havilland Australia logo.

[2] The CAC Cricket was named for the buzzing Black field cricket (Teleogryllus commodus). 

[3] Minor changes to better-suit Australian manufacturing practices and a switch from Claudel-Hobson to US Stromberg NA-R7A carburettors were other modifications. The parallel CAC Cicada - a 420 hp, 1,072 cid (17.57 L) 9-cylinder radial - was not proceeded with (Commonwealth ultimately license-building the Pratt and Whitney Wasp instead).
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2734 on: May 04, 2021, 11:42:22 PM »
A very strong resemblance to the future DHC Beaver and Otter in that image.
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Offline robunos

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2735 on: May 05, 2021, 05:30:32 AM »
Another robunos rip-off ... this time, based on the de Havilland Australia Sun Moth:

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9672.0

The de Havilland Australia Sun Moth II name is all but forgotten today. A major improvement over the original, more cramped Sun Moth I, the prototype Sun Moth II was let down by its underpowered de Havilland Gipsy Six engine. [1] And that might have been the end of the story had the RAAF not experienced some overheating problems with the Armstrong Siddeley Cheetah in their Avro 643 Cadet biplane trainers.

In anticipation of new RAAF Avro Anson patrol aircraft, Canberra funded an improved version of the British engine. The result was the Commonwealth CAC-7 Cricket [2] 7-cylinder radial - with the same displacement as the British Cheetah but with enlarged cooling fins on the cylinder barrels. [3] The Cricket did all that was hoped for it but, before the first Anson entered RAAF service, a pre-production CAC-7 was used to re-engine the prototype DHA-2 Sun Moth II. The intended market, once again, was the Australian Aerial Medical Service. But the 'Flying Doctors' lost out to the RAAF.

In service, the DHA-2M became the de Havilland Australia Dingo - famed for its low-level air drops to jungle-fighting troops in New Zealand. The 375 hp CAC-7 Cricket provided enough power for the Dingo to hang over the Diggers' position on its Handley Page slats while dropping urgent supplies through its belly hatch. (Such mad aerial antics probably being responsible for the DHA-2M's 'Drongo' nickname.)

Illustrated is the prototype 'Panacea II after its conversion to DHA-2M standards.

____________________________________

[1] That original, inline layout being immortalized in the de Havilland Australia logo.

[2] The CAC Cricket was named for the buzzing Black field cricket (Teleogryllus commodus). 

[3] Minor changes to better-suit Australian manufacturing practices and a switch from Claudel-Hobson to US Stromberg NA-R7A carburettors were other modifications. The parallel CAC Cicada - a 420 hp, 1,072 cid (17.57 L) 9-cylinder radial - was not proceeded with (Commonwealth ultimately license-building the Pratt and Whitney Wasp instead).



I'm going to have to start charging licence fees !       ;D


Verr' verr' nice . . . if I had the bits, I'd build one ! (would I be right in thinking the new engine and cowling came from my Helldiver ?).
It's interesting, I've got a few projects in the works, where I will be building several models, to illustrate a design sequence, and here you are, doing the same with your images . . .


cheers,
Robin.

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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2736 on: May 05, 2021, 05:45:05 AM »
Cheers Jeff. I was going for an ur-Beaver vibe (although the canopy is actually Norseman-based).

Robin: Cheques are in the mail  ;)  Like the canopy, the cowling and prop were based on those of the Norseman ... but scaled down to Cheetah size (one of many cheats available to us pixel pushers).

Looking forward to your design sequence builds  :smiley:
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Offline robunos

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2737 on: May 05, 2021, 09:58:53 PM »
I would prefer Bitcoin . . .   ;D ;D
Looking closer at the image, I can the small differences, reminds me of a Buffalo cowling.   :smiley:
Thinking about it, I've already posted the first part of one of my sequences, with the OWB Sopwith Pup and Hound. I have the Camel, Snipe and Salamander still to do.


cheers,
Robin.
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2738 on: May 06, 2021, 08:02:06 AM »
... the small differences, reminds me of a Buffalo cowling...

It does look like a Buffalo! Attached is the real deal (AFAIK, only the USAAF UC-64s had the 3-bladed props).

Thinking about it, I've already posted the first part of one of my sequences, with the OWB Sopwith Pup and Hound. I have the Camel, Snipe and Salamander still to do.

Cool! I love the Salamander ... even if the RFC/RAF brass didn't share my enthusiasm for armoured trench strafers  ;D
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2739 on: May 08, 2021, 11:59:33 AM »
No backstory here ... just playin' with the Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 (which I always thought needed a bit of slimming down). I'm calling this the M.S.460 C1. [1] Changes are:

- Engine moved forward (anticipating a new, 2-stage supercharger)
- Smoother cowling (improved aerodynamics), relocated supercharger intakes
- Upper nose contours raised (to clear potentially larger ammunition drum)
- Radiator moved aft and fuselage lengthened to compensate for longer nose
- Semi-monocoque wooden  rear fuselage (aft of glazing) to conserve steel
- Semi-retractable tail wheel incorporated into extended rear fuselage
- Vertical tail moved aft (allowing slight increase in elevator size)

The prototype (bottom) lacks exhaust stubs and still has the M.S.406's 20 mm HS 404 moteur-canon. The protduction M.S.460 C1 (top) has thrust-producing exhausts and the new Hispano-Suiza 23 mm HS 407 gun.
__________________________________

[1] Yeah, I know that there was a real M.S.460 project. It was a 1940 (or 1939?) single-seat fighter but who knows what it looked like?

EDIT: Forgot to mention that this began life as a Thierry Dekker profile of an M.S.406  :-[
« Last Edit: May 17, 2021, 09:14:11 AM by apophenia »
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Offline PantherG

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2740 on: May 08, 2021, 01:44:42 PM »
Morane 460 looks very good.....  ;)
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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2741 on: May 09, 2021, 02:10:56 AM »
[1] Yeah, I know that there was a real M.S.460 project. It was a 1940 (or 1939?) single-seat fighter but who knows what it looked like?


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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2742 on: May 09, 2021, 07:33:17 AM »
Cool! Thanks Greg  :smiley:

Looks a bit like a CAO.200 with Dewoitine influences. Nice!
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2743 on: May 14, 2021, 09:51:42 AM »
When the Armée de l'Air embarked upon a Dewoitine D.500 upgrade programme in 1937, Switzerland took the opportunity to purchase 32 engines from those French fighters. These Hispano-Suiza 12Xbrs engines had the same displacement as the HS 12Mc V-12s which powered the Flugwaffe's frontline fighter - the Dewoitine D 27. However, the newer engines weighed 75 kg less while producing 190 hp more at altitude - a valuable gain when operating over mountainous terrain. Despite the obvious advantages, the proposed D.27V (Verbessert programme stalled for budgetary reasons.

The arrival of the Flugwaffe's first Messerschmitt Bf 109D fighters in 1938 reinforced just how obsolete the 1930-vintage Dewoitines were. Since the Flugwaffe held stocks of HS 12Xjrs engines, the D.27 upgrade option was revisited in the Summer of 1938. However, with war clouds gathering, the project was revised with a more advanced form. This project was assigned to the Eidgenössische Konstruktionswerkstätte - federal workshops at Thun. The EKW was already working on an advanced two-seat attack aircraft to replace the C.36 biplanes. The low-wing monoplane form of this embyonic EKW C.3800 design would inform the Dewoitine rebuild programme. [1]

The D.27's parasol wing - with its forest of drag-inducing support struts - was first to go. That wing arrangement had provided pilots with good visibility but would make rearming under-wing bomb racks very difficult. It was decided to rebuild the Dewoitines with an entirely new wing and main undercarriage. Both new features were inspired by the emerging design for the EKW's two-seat C.3800 attack plane. [2] However, for speed of construction, the Dewoitine's new wings would be plywood-covered wood structures. As with the planned C.3800, the new main undercarriage members would be fixed and covered in streamlined spats. This proposal was evaluation by the Flugwaffe and accepted in late October 1938.

The 'new' ground attack aircraft were designated EKW BA.27X - for Bodenangriff (Ground Attack) and the HS 12X powerplant. Construction of the wooden wings was sub-contracted to the Farner-Werke AG in Grenchen. Fuselage modifications and final assembly took place at EKW's Thun plant. Thirty of the most suitable D.27 airframes were selected for modification to BA.27X standards (leaving four HS 12X engines in reserve). [2] The prototype conversion is illustrated below.

Bottom Initial conversion work on Dewoitine D.27 nr 286. As originally completed, the BA.27X prototype retained the D.27's original head rest and tail skid. The revised windscreen was found to be inadequate at the higher speeds achieved by the BA.27X and the rounded wingtips contributed to aileron flutter.

Top The revised BA.27X prototype showing 'clipped' wingtips, extra bracing struts on the horizontal tails, plus a bigger windscreen with new side panels and an enlarged head-rest fairing. This bought the prototype up to 'production' conversion standards. Of the thirty conversions, twenty were twin-gun types with underwing bomb racks fitted. The remaining ten aircraft featured another pair of 7.5 mm Darne guns in the wings to match to two synchronized weapons.

__________________________________

[1] A review of the 53 surviving D.27s resulted in the selection of 34 conversion candidate airframes. Of the 19 remaining airframes, six were to be scrapped, and a dozen were to be converted to approximate D.26 trainer standards. one D.27 was set aside to be preserved as a non-flying museum exhibit.

[2] Numbers were dictated by available engines. Although the KTA (Kriegstechnischen Abteilung or Military Technology Department) recommended holding ten engines in reserve as spares, full conversion of 30 x D.27 airframes was approved by the Chef der Flugwaffe. Four D.27 airframes were held in reserve although with stocks of spares created by scrapping worn-out D.27s.
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2744 on: May 17, 2021, 09:19:10 AM »
A bit of a change from sideviews. This image is modified from the Dewoitine D.510 painting by Carlos Alonzo - and used as box art on the KP 1/72nd kit. In that painting, the Dewoitine has just shot up a Bf 109E (which must've been on half throttle!).

Did a D.510 pilot ever score a kill over a Luftwaffe Bf 109E? Dunno. By the time of the German invasion, most surviving D.510s had been transferred to the Centre d'Instruction de la Chasse (CIC) at Chartres, so ...  Anyway, partly for composition, I removed the mystery Messerschmitt.

The D.510 airframe has been tweaked into what I'm calling a D.51.10 (following the Potez 63.10 model). The fuselage has an additional bay added to accommodate deeper chord wings. Those wings similar to those of the D.520 - house a new retractable main undercarriage (as well as four 7.5 mm MAC 1934 machine guns). The pilot is better-protected from the slipstream by a new sliding canopy which, in turn, dictated an enlarged rear deck fairing.

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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2745 on: May 20, 2021, 03:41:49 AM »
Wouldn't an airliner derivative look more like the original He111C or G?

CASA 2.111G - the Pedro Transporte Rapido

I ran with this. To simplify retouch, I stuck with a military variant...  The idea here is that the Ejército del Aire had a requirement for a fast transport - not so much for VIPs as for rapid movement of key EdA personnel.

The basis for this CASA 2.111G (EdA T.8)transport was the 2.111D (B.R2I) recce variant. [1] However, the small 'production' run were actually rebuilt 2.111C (B.2H) models  fitted with refurbished forward fuselages from retired EdA Heinkel He 111Bs and He 111E bombers. These 'new' nose sections were fitted with dual-controls and the airframes re-engined with Merlin 500s.

The CASA 2.111G was seen as a companion to the more spartan 2.111E (T.8A) troop transport. The 'nariz larga' modification had sprung from the abortive 2.111RE radar trainer (EdA E.11). The one-off CASA 2.111 BPR (Banco de Pruebas de Radar) testbed proved too slow and unwieldy. As a result, all three 2.111RE conversions begun were completed as 'Pedro Transporte Rapidos'. [2] Other than their long noses, the only vestige of the 2.111Gs' origins was the black-painted composite nose cones.

____________________________________

[1] There was a RW 2.111G - it was a dual-control trainer while the nearly identical 2.111H was a dual-control transport. These RW 'Gs and 'Hs shared the EdA designation T.8B. Here, I am imagining the AltHist T.8Bs to also share the CASA designation 2.111H.

[2] The sole CASA 2.111 BPR was later stripped of its antennae and radar operator stations. Thereafter, the 2.111 BPR acted as a hack transport for the Grupo de Experimentación en Vuelo at Torrejón.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2746 on: May 22, 2021, 02:13:44 AM »
Love your work. :smiley:
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2747 on: May 22, 2021, 03:53:18 AM »
Any chance of a turboprop variant of the above - maybe using the BT-67 as inspiration?
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2748 on: May 25, 2021, 10:36:46 AM »
Cheers Greg  :smiley:

Any chance of a turboprop variant of the above - maybe using the BT-67 as inspiration?

Ah yes, the CASA 3.111 turboprop... Testbeds don't get enough attention. The CASA 3.111 conversion would be better-remembered had the Construcciones Aeronáuticas SA proceeded with their CASA 362TH (Turbo-Hélice) airliner project.

Of course, once Franco's Spain could legally import second-hand Dakotas, no-one was interested in a warmed-over CASA 352L ...
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Apophenia's Offerings
« Reply #2749 on: May 26, 2021, 02:01:05 AM »
Turbomeca Astazou?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.