Mirage F1 inspiration

[ysi_maniac]

[Daryl J.]

USN, VF-84.

[Weaver]

How about a high-mounted tailless delta wing, like a mini-CF-105?

[AGRA]

How about a high-mounted tailless delta wing, like a mini-CF-105?

LOL, I just posted the same thing in the Mirage III thread! Priceless!

[Weaver]

LMAO - so does that prove  Convergent Evolution, "great minds think alike" or "fools never differ" 

[elmayerle]

Mirage F.1 with Kfir engine fit?  Might look nice in IDF markings.

[GTX_Admin]

Different.

[M.A.D]

Nice Ysi!!
The second (lower drawing also addresses on of the failings of the F1 (and Dassault's designers) elevate/bubble canopy cockpit arrangement!! Something Dassault of all company's should have headed too after all the Israeli air combat experienced gained in Mirage-series fighters!!
Saying this I think the Mirage F1 series would have been the smallest design that VG wings could have been employed ........ saying this it's weight and complexity could have been some-what detrimental - especially with the limited power of French turbojet engines of the time. But don't take this as a negative, I love your idea, and more so your efforts!!!


M.A.D

[ysi_maniac]

^^^^^
My designs are not VG.

[GTX_Admin]

Different...but nice. :)

[GTX_Admin]

VTOL version?

[GTX_Admin]

Playing with wings:

[ChernayaAkula]

Mirage F1 as a flying boat aka as Sea Mirage F1H (H stands for hydravion), with some retractable devices to prevent large amounts of salty water from entering into the turbojet.

Those retractable devices were a clever idea!  :)

Didn't you also do a jolly nice A-10 seaplane some day?

[Litvyak]

Love the Narval!!

[GTX_Admin]

  :)

[ysi_maniac]

[GTX_Admin]

Spinning off from the discussion here and with KittyHawk's new F.1 kits on there way, how about some more ideas?

To begin with, back in the '70s, the Mirage F.1 was widely seen to be the natural successor to the RAAF's Mirage IIIs.  Dassault put in a major effort that also included some very enticing licence production options.  Now taking it a step further, what if the RAAF acquired the F.1 but then the RAN, wanting to stay in the Carrier game, also did so?  Maybe naval Mirage F.1Ms on a new carrier?

[Volkodav]

Spinning off from the discussion here and with KittyHawk's new F.1 kits on there way, how about some more ideas?

To begin with, back in the '70s, the Mirage F.1 was widely seen to be the natural successor to the RAAF's Mirage IIIs.  Dassault put in a major effort that also included some very enticing licence production options.  Now taking it a step further, what if the RAAF acquired the F.1 but then the RAN, wanting to stay in the Carrier game, also did so?  Maybe naval Mirage F.1Ms on a new carrier?

I still have a 1/72 Hasegawa F1 I built as RAAF years ago while I was at uni (late 80's early 90s) finished but for serials and small decals and ordinance.  Not in a good state at the moment as I was living with my parents at the time and my dad dropped a load of washing, fresh of the clothes line, on my work bench.  It is one of many old models I still have that need some TLC. 

I actually had a couple of removal boxes full of carefully packed models I was storing at my parents place about a decade ago.  All well and good until dear old mum decided the boxes, as there were mine, were a good place to put my reference library.  Many of the models held up surprisingly well under the weight of various Janes year books, Friedman, Preston etc. but as you could imagine lots of broken under carriage, missing wheels, bombs and missiles.

I am in the process of relocating interstate at the moment so expect many more casualties.

[GTX_Admin]

One I just found online:

[upnorth]

One I just found online:

That is gorgeous!

The F.1 was made to wear "sand and spinach" camo and always looks good in it. Dressing it up as an aggressor makes it that much better.

[Daryl J.]

US Adversary markings.

[Daryl J.]

Is the F.1 able to be converted over to carry the IRIS-T and Meteor (or AIM-9x/AIM-120)?  Guided bombs?

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Is the F.1 able to be converted over to carry the IRIS-T and Meteor (or AIM-9x/AIM-120)?  Guided bombs?

Why not?  Certainly gives the Mirage F.1 a slightly different look with either of those missiles.  The Mirage III was cleared to carry the Sidewinder and Falcon in addition to the usual French weaponry and according to the same source the Mirage F.1 was also cleared for the Sidewinder in Greek and Spanish service. 

Something to consider in all of this Daryl is that while the country of origin was France and they were supposedly not part of NATO at the time there was still a lot of cooperation with NATO under the table as it were so you will see a lot of weapons that are common to NATO users also being compatible with French aircraft from the start like the Sidewinder for example.  So you should expect to see common features with NATO and French weapons such as how the weapon is attached (in this case a launch rail) and how the weapon is connected electrically to the aircraft for fire control via the umbilical connection to the missile. 
Not claiming this to be the case in every situation but common sense does sometime prevail on the small details :)

[Rickshaw]

Despite not being a member, France was a part of the STANAG (Standard Nato Agreement) system which produced many of the agreements on design details which were meant to ensure interoperability between the various NATO forces.   France also regularly exercised with NATO all the way through the 1970s and 80s.  They even had liason officers with NATO HQ.  However, they weren't allowed to be involved directly in high strategy and large scale exercises, despite having forces actually stationed in Germany.  There was an understanding that if the balloon had gone up, they would be a co-belligerent rather than an Ally with NATO.   The further the distance from de Gaulle, the more co-operative France became.

[Volkodav]

My , in need of repair, RAAF Mirage F-1 was to have been armed with AIM-7F/M and AIM-9L.  If I can find all the bits Wridgeways removalists (bastards) managed to snap off it may still be so armed, along with a suitable back story.

[GTX_Admin]

Speaking of Mirage F.1 with Sidewinders:

[Rickshaw]

Weren't the Sidewinder and Magic basically compatible?  IIRC they used the same rails and connectors.  I wonder if the electronic black boxes were significantly different?  I know the RAAF initially put Sidewinders on it's Mirage IIIs and then replaced them later with Magics.

[Weaver]

IIRC, all Mirages had Sidewinder-compatibility to start with: Magic came along later.

[Volkodav]

Weren't the Sidewinder and Magic basically compatible?  IIRC they used the same rails and connectors.  I wonder if the electronic black boxes were significantly different?  I know the RAAF initially put Sidewinders on it's Mirage IIIs and then replaced them later with Magics.

I think the RAAF was using AIM-9B from the stock bought for the Sabres and replaced then with the Magic during the early 80s when they reached life of type.  I also heard that the 30mm ammo was aged to the point of being dangerous to the firing aircraft, which combined with the missiles being obsolete left the Miricles effectively un armed come 1980.

[cafe]

The upgraded moroccan Mirage F1 (Mirage F1EM VI) can use the MICA EM & IR. Their radar is a variant of the Thalès RDY-3 (RDY used on Mirage 2000-5, RDY-2 used on the Mirage 2000-9).

[Volkodav]

Was there ever a Navalised Mirage F1 proposed?  It seems to me it would have been ideal for the French carriers of the time an ideal replacement for the Crusader and Etendard instead of the failed Jaguar M.  Maybe an M53 powered version for the early 80s.

[GTX_Admin]

What?  Like this?



Nope, never proposed...

[Volkodav]

 :)

That will do for a start, any more info?

[Volkodav]

Boredom strikes again, been reading up on the Mirage F-1.  While I have always liked the look of the F-1 I had always been under the impression that it was nothing special in terms of performance or capability and never realised that the type had quite a successful combat record.  I was actually quite surprised at how highly it was regarded by its operators and also by its longevity in service (assumed it had been retired by most operator pre 2000).

While I have whiffed a RAAF F1 I never actually saw it as a serious real world contender for the RAAF, but now I see it could actually have been a very smart choice, especially with the production and marketing deal that was being offered.  It was superior to the Mirage III in just about every way, proved to be quite adaptable to different roles, was affordable to own and operate and appear to be quite long lived without mention of significant fatigue issues.  Basically an Australian build of the F1 from the mid 70s would have for filled all the RAAFs requirements at the time and provided a perfectly good enough combat aircraft into the 90s at lower cost than the F/A-18A perhaps allowing the fighter force to be maintained at four active squadrons.  If the F1 was acquired in conjunction with retaining the 24 leased Phantoms, the proposed Jaguar buy, or even served as the low end of a high low mix including F-15s the RAAF may actually have seen a net increase in capability.  The Affordable and sustainable F1 may also have been an attractive export option for NZ, Indonesia, Malaysia Singapore and Thailand.

The other thought that comes to mind is Argentina ordering the F1 direct from France in the mid 70s having it in service in numbers (including maritime strike versions) by 1982. 

[GTX_Admin]

:)

That will do for a start, any more info?

See here

[GTX_Admin]

I agree, it is one of those aircraft that is often overlooked and yet has had a very successful career.

An idea I have is to do. Carrier based, VG wing F.1.  I plan to adapt MiG-23 wings to do it.

[Volkodav]

I am liking the RAAF Mirage F1 more and more.  It slots in so well with the real world RAAF timelines but also with a number of wiffs I've come up with which change procurements and orbats at different points.  I do like the F1 as a naval fighter too (even without a swing wing  ), it would be a good fit on an Essex, Victorious, Hermes, Eagle, or a Tarawa type CVS instead of Skyhawk, Etendard, Super Etendard.

What would be interesting is a RAF / RN version powered by a Spey and armed with British weapons including Skyflash, Sea Eagle, ALARM etc.  It could have been the Jaguar remains a trainer and F1 is selected for the tactical fighter role to replace the Hunter FGA 9 and later the EE Lightning in the interceptor role.  The RN version is developed to replace the Sea Vixen and Buccaneer on Hermes, Victorious and possibly Centaur as well as Eagle if her Phantomisation doesn't go ahead.

[elmayerle]

I agree, it is one of those aircraft that is often overlooked and yet has had a very successful career.

An idea I have is to do. Carrier based, VG wing F.1.  I plan to adapt MiG-23 wings to do it.

In 1/144, if you want a straight, and not dogtoothed leading edge, use the old Otaki MG-23U kit.

[Volkodav]

What happened to the Iraqi Mirage F1s that "escaped" to Iran during the Gulf War?  Do they still exist, what sort of condition are they in?

Wiff, they are still in good condition and Iran sells them all to Argentina, including the anti-shipping strike models.  Argentina is able to get South African assistance in upgrading them, including BVR missiles.

[GTX_Admin]

What happened to the Iraqi Mirage F1s that "escaped" to Iran during the Gulf War?  Do they still exist, what sort of condition are they in?

Wiff, they are still in good condition and Iran sells them all to Argentina, including the anti-shipping strike models.  Argentina is able to get South African assistance in upgrading them, including BVR missiles.

At least two of the former Iraqi F.1s have recently been overhauled and are still in service.  I suspect the majority of the rest (supposedly up to 10) also are still in service.  Here is a photo of one of the overhauled aircraft:



Re Argentina, I doubt they would go for the ex-Iraqi-ex-Iranian ones since they would carry far too much 'baggage' for too limits a capability.  The current speculation is that Argentina is doing a deal with Israel for some upgraded Kfirs, possibly even in the Block 60 format.  Other options raised have included KAI TA-50 and FA-50s, JF-17s, MiG-29s and even Chinese F-8s.

[Volkodav]

Yes read about that on DID which is what got me thinking about the Iraqi / Iranian F1s.  Only 10 flying, probably hardly worth it then.  Maybe we need the UK to offend Spain and get that order back on track 

[Volkodav]

This may beyond saving depending on how many parts have been lost but there is always hope, for instance if it were to become a navalised F1M then it would need new undercarriage, maybe robbed off a Super Etendard, etc.

[kitnut617]

Would it need different u/c ?, I seem to remember the u/c was quite robust from the one I've built.

[Volkodav]

Mines broken off and I haven't found it yet, that the only reason I'm looking at an alternate.  It was quite robust an suited for unprepared strips, sections of road etc. 

[Ghost Rider]

This topic has inspired a 3d model of the "bubble canopy" version.



It just looks right - and with the higher seat position, it could have been fitted with folding wings and a tail hook for use as a carrier based aircraft ......





.... and real contender for a "kit bash" modelling project if ever I saw one


 

[GTX_Admin]

What about some of the Mirage III operators also being Mirage F1 operators?  E.g.  Brazil, Columbia, Venezuela, Pakistan...

[elmayerle]

What about some of the Mirage III operators also being Mirage F1 operators?  E.g.  Brazil, Columbia, Venezuela, Pakistan...

Israel (perhaps leading to a J79-powered version)

Also, what if low-time Mirage F.1 airframes were upgraded with the electronics and engine from the Grippen?  Since the South Africans and the Russians fit a RD-33 into a Mirage F.1 airframe, I see no reason a RM12 couldn't fit, especially since it's smaller than the present ATAR 9K.

[dams301]

I love your idea 

I have one similar with a F-1B and some part of Kfir :
- nose of C-10
- IFR probe of Kfir
- cockpit instrument panel from C-10 (both seat)
- one piece front canopy (like modern kfir an M2000)
- new engine (but which one )
- modern weapons load

Not realistic sure, but it's this of the KH MF1B will be a scrap in a boneyard (like my KH F-1C in progress)

[elmayerle]

Thoughts for that new engine, depending on who's doing the modifications, F404/F414, RM12, EJ200, M88.  Personally, I'd go with the EJ200 just to be contrary.  If it's the Israelis doing the modifying, the F404/F414 would be most likely, the Swedish, as in my thought, the RM12. any other European country, the EJ200, and, finally, France, the M88.  I could see it as an upgrade of the Spanish ones with them installing an EJ200 as part of the upgrade.

[dams301]

A spanish one with EJ200... Not a bad idea, thanks I'll take note of this :)
In your opinion, need a scoop like the kfir at the base of tail fin ?

[GTX_Admin]

May be to become a real world rather than whatif:

Argentina Negotiates with France to Buy 12 Combat Aircraft;

(Source: La Nacion; published June 14, 2016

Although it was recently phased out by France and Spain, its two European operators, the Dassault Mirage F-1C fighter remains an effective fighter, but its in-flight refueling capability could be seen as a potential threat to UK sovereignty over the Falkland Islands. (French AF photo)
PARIS --- Argentina is negotiating with France to purchase 12 Mirage F-1 combat aircraft, and possibly Mirage 2000s, as well as engines to equip the twenty Pucarás that are currently grounded, Argentine Defense Minister Julio Martinez told La Nacion.

Passing through Paris, where he came to attend the Eurosatory armaments exhibition, Martinez was today received for an hour by his French counterpart Jean-Yves Le Drian, with whom he discussed in detail the possibility of that purchase.

"The transaction provides excellent value, and under very favorable conditions," he said. The context of the acquisition has evolved favorably due to the two ministers’ agreement to undertake the operation on a "government-to-government" basis, thereby avoiding intermediaries while taking advantage of the new climate of trust established between the two countries.

"The Argentine Air Force cannot do without supersonic aircraft. Our pilots must be able to train in modern aircraft," said the minister.

Martinez refused however to specify amounts, modes of operation and payment deadlines because "negotiations are not finished." He also acknowledged that even if the United States has offered to sell Argentina their supersonic F-16 fighter, the "French option" is more consistent with the needs of the country:

"The operating cost of the F-16 makes them almost prohibitively expensive," he said. Chile, which has 24 of the aircraft, cannot fly them because every hour in the air costs $ 17,000.

Moreover, considering that the Argentine pilots have known the Mirage for decades, the country would save the costly process of adaptation to a new technology.

Martinez said that "other countries have also proposed their own planes. For example, Italy".

La Nacion knows that the Swedish company Saab has also offered Gripen NG fighters, which will be manufactured under license in Brazil, with technology transfer included.

The minister also pointed out the importance of buying new Astazou engines from Turbomeca -- now called Safran Helicopters Engines -- to retrofit to the twenty [FMA IA-58] Pucara aircraft that are presently grounded. These aircraft could be used for the "surveillance of the northern border, the main transit region for drugs".

"You cannot perform this mission with supersonic aircraft," said Martinez, “but the Pucara is perfectly suited for it."

If successful, these acquisitions would surely lift the spirits of young air force pilots for years, as like their counterparts in the army and navy they lack proper equipment and see their income shrinking, as La Nacion reported yesterday.

"Yes, it is true, the salaries of the armed forces are half those of the metropolitan police. And it is also true that many NCOs will leave for that reason," admitted the minister of defense.

[GTX_Admin]

Chinese Mirage F.1 anyone?

[Volkodav]

Why not, there's plenty of French gear in Chinese service, though the one I would love to have seen in real life was roos on the wings.

[Volkodav]

Australian Army Aviation Mirage F1 Foliage Green uppers (with a high, almost 1950s RN FAA demarcation line), Light Sea Grey lowers, black Roos instead of roundels.  Each Australian Army Aviation Brigade has a battlefield air superiority, strike, reconnaissance regiment, equipped with Mirage F1E, F1CR and Jaguar in two fighter, two strike and one reconnaissance squadron.

[elmayerle]

A spanish one with EJ200... Not a bad idea, thanks I'll take note of this :)
In your opinion, need a scoop like the kfir at the base of tail fin ?

With a turbofan engine, I don't see as you'd need one as the bypass air should provide sufficient cooling flow.  With a straight turbojet like the J79, I believe you would need such a scoop.

[elmayerle]

Saw an article today, see below, that the USN may be buying Spain's Mirage F.1's for new aggressor aircraft.  Might be just the scheme(s) for a J79-powered variant or two.

Does the United States take the Spanish F-1?

02/13/2017

It has recently transcended the interest of the United States to have more second-hand aircraft to equip its groups with "Aggressors".  Because of this, Spain would have made available 12 Mirage F-1 (C.14) aircraft that once lent tasks with Wing 14 at Albacete Air Force Base.  These planes, deprogrammed in 2013, would include two in the two-seater version and would be transferred to the US Navy for the training of their pilots under war games with aggressor squads.  The transfer would imply a transfer of 12 million euros in favor of Spain, who would be in charge to put them in condition of flight.

I suspect it was either auto-translated or the writer does not have English as their first language.

[Bryan H.]

Thoughts for that new engine, depending on who's doing the modifications, F404/F414, RM12, EJ200, M88.  Personally, I'd go with the EJ200 just to be contrary.  If it's the Israelis doing the modifying, the F404/F414 would be most likely, the Swedish, as in my thought, the RM12. any other European country, the EJ200, and, finally, France, the M88.  I could see it as an upgrade of the Spanish ones with them installing an EJ200 as part of the upgrade.

I love your idea 

I have one similar with a F-1B and some part of Kfir :
- nose of C-10
- IFR probe of Kfir
- cockpit instrument panel from C-10 (both seat)
- one piece front canopy (like modern kfir an M2000)
- new engine (but which one )
- modern weapons load

Not realistic sure, but it's this of the KH MF1B will be a scrap in a boneyard (like my KH F-1C in progress)

I had a similar idea a few years ago and came up with this...






To the model... 
It's a standard Italeri/ESCI 1/48 Mirage F.1 with Eagle Designs 1/48 Kfir C.7 parts (air scoops & camera bit under the tail), a dome made from a cut up LANTIRN and a PW1120 engine made from a 1/72 PW F100 from a 1/72 F-16 kit.  The decals are from a variety of sources - the roundel is original, cobbled from US & French insignia.  The TX flag on the tail was a pain - it is created from some US Bicentennial markings.  If you look close at the tail the aircraft has a US style tailcode but with an "AC" number for Texas Army Air Corps.  She also has some combat markings.  The South African-inspired scheme is Field Green, Dark Tan and Light Ghost Grey over Air Superiority Grey - the vague outlines in the camo are accidental.  I had painted out an older top camo with dark grey before coming up with the current scheme; some of the dark grey shows through.  I liked the look and didn't repaint - it gives it a bit of an "operational" aircraft look.  After arming it, I decided that it looked rather overloaded but haven't changed anything.  When I get around to it, I think I'll keep the 2 LGB's, wingtip AAM's, the Maverick & the CBU. 

The backstory...
The Texas Army Air Corps has been a long-term user of Dassault products and (as is it’s national defense policy) has built the Mirage F.1 under license.  In Texan service, the Mirage F.1 built by General Dynamics (Texas designation F-9 Mirage 2) was used as a multi-role light fighter.  With its rough and primitive airfields capability, ease of maintenance, good performance (payload, speed, range, multi-role capability and diversity of missions); the Mirage F.1 had been found particularly useful in “colonial”  and other “primitive” settings.  In the early ‘90’s the TX Dept of War had decided that the best replacement for an old Mirage F.1 was a new build, updated Mirage F.1.  The latest incarnation of the Mirage F.1, the Texas Army Air Corps F/A-9E Mirage 2 Plus, incorporates a number of improvements.  The late production Mirages most notably have new high-performance PW1120 engines (13,550 lb st dry) vs. the old Atar 9K (11,023 lb st dry), a lightweight modified version of the APG-73 radar, a strike camera – giving (limited) photo-reconnaissance capability, improved ECM & IRCM, a FLIR/laser ranging turret, a wider range of armament options and a number of other improvements. 

F/A-9E Mirage 2 Plus #02-0375 “Margaret” is regularly stationed at Antanarivo IAP/AAF as part of the Texan Madagascar Garrison – Air Component.

Cheers & happy modeling, Bryan

[Volkodav]

 :)

[Daryl J.]

I should find one in 1/144 scale and convert it into a fountain pen.

[M.A.D]

"The operating cost of the F-16 makes them almost prohibitively expensive," he said. Chile, which has 24 of the aircraft, cannot fly them because every hour in the air costs $ 17,000. "

Wow
The true operational cost of operating is really amazing! Even more so when one considers the F-16 was developed as a cost-effective complementary platform to the F-15 in USAF service!

M.A.D

[taiidantomcat]

"The operating cost of the F-16 makes them almost prohibitively expensive," he said. Chile, which has 24 of the aircraft, cannot fly them because every hour in the air costs $ 17,000. "

Wow
The true operational cost of operating is really amazing! Even more so when one considers the F-16 was developed as a cost-effective complementary platform to the F-15 in USAF service!

M.A.D

Well an F-15 is about $40,000 CPFH...  so I'd say that's pretty good.

He is nuts if he thinks he is going to get any better with Mirages too BTW.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/taiwan-in-perspective.com/2013/02/02/taiwans-air-force-inventory-and-procurement-options/amp/

Worse than I guessed actually

[GTX_Admin]

Hmmmm...

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Mirage F.1 with two engines?

[M.A.D]

Chinese Mirage F.1 anyone?

I remember reading somewhere that the Mirage F1 was one of the principle marketed Fighter's promoted to PLAAF when the floodgates to the new PRC opened to the Western markets...I think it was the notion of the Mirage F1 simplicity and cost effectiveness for a high performance fighter (as well as the williness of France tinsel it's arms to anyone with the cash) that was to be appealing - alas at the time, although deemed cheap by Western standards, it was still deemed expensive by the then sleeping Chinese economy. How times have changed.

P.S. One can only assume that had the PRC purchased Mirage F1, it would undoubtedly have been copied or evolved in some way, as most French 'purchased'arms were - with or without French concent.


MAD

[Volkodav]

They would have ordered 200, taken delivery of 50, then cancelled the order as they had their own unique and vastly superior Chinese fighter that was in no way a copy of the Mirage F1, except that it was identical to the F1 one in everyway except for the materials used, i.e. paper mache instead of stainless steel bolts and doped linin instead of aluminum wings.

[GTX_Admin]

Mirage F.1 with two engines?

Nope:

Mirage F-O (for Australia = Ostralia)
-study from second trimester 1967 (1/1 mock-up of the photo certainly later)
-precise role unknown, maybe a "strike trainer"
-Derivative of Mirage F2
-2xGE J85-13 with 1230/1830 kgp
-Length : 11.65 m
-wingspan : 6.50 m
-height : 3.40 m
-wing surface : 14 m²
-wing degrees : 48°
-empty weight : 3400 kg
-max weight : 7200 kg
-max speed sea level : M 0.98
-max speed : M 1.55 at 38 000 ft

[GTX_Admin]

Shameless plug:  some Australian, New Zealand, Singaporean and Malaysian Mirage F.1s here:  http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=8820.0

[ChernayaAkula]

Plug away! Some really good stuff in there.  :) Considering Kiwi, Singaporean and Mayasian F.1s now.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

So how about a two engine Morage F.1?  Maybe similar in size to the Mirage 4000?

[kitnut617]

I'd say more the size of a F-5B Jeff

[GTX_Admin]

So how about a two engine Morage F.1?  Maybe similar in size to the Mirage 4000?

If you are talking about two engines in the same class as the ATARs in the F.1 then you are in the territory of the Sper Mirage G8A or ACF:



If wanting to keep to the same basic size of the F.1 or even simply a twin engined F.1 then I suppose you might look at engines such as the Adour from the Jaguar.  In fact, doing a comparison:

Atar 09K-50 Diameter: 1.021 m Length: 6.589 m Weight: 1582 kg Thrust: 49KN Static Sea Level or 70KN AB

Adour Mk.102 Diameter: 0.782 m Length: 2.969 m Weight: 704 kg Thrust: 22KN Static Sea Level or 30KN AB

Therefore using two Adours in the rear would see the following rough numbers:

Width of rear engine bay: ~1.6m - thus quite fatter than standard Mirage F.1
Length: 2.969 m - no problem here and in fact, one might be able to give it a shapely rear to accomodate the greater engine diameters
Weight: ~1400kg thus a bit lighter though one would need to factor in structure as well
Thrust: 44KN Static Sea Level or 60KN AB - thus less power though again, one needs to factor in weight etc.

Could be an interesting alternate history if a twin engine bird was wanted for some reason.

[GTX_Admin]

[GTX_Admin]

[GTX_Admin]

If an Israeli Kfir style Mirage F.1 was done using J79 etc, I suggest a F.1A be used as the basis thus emphasising the non-BVR requirement:

[ysi_maniac]

Mixing Rafale and Mirage F1. (top view fits with first side view)

[M.A.D]

RAAF Mirage F-1 was to have been armed with AIM-7F/M and AIM-9L.

Any chance of such a profile ysi_maniac??😯

MAD

[M.A.D]

One I just found online:

That is cool GTX.
One thing's for certain, the F1 does have Soviet quality raugh-field landing gear.

MAD

[GTX_Admin]

[GTX_Admin]

[Volkodav]

Nice!

[GTX_Admin]

The Mirage F1 was the smaller sibling to the Mirage F2:



The Mirage F2was itself developed into the Mirage G family of VG fighters:



What if the flow also went to the Mirage F1 with a VG variant?

[ysi_maniac]

Crossing between Mirage F1 and 2000. Subtle but beautiful. IMO :thumbsup:

[ysi_maniac]

EuroFighter   Mirage F1.

[ysi_maniac]

Mirage-F104

[ysi_maniac]

What if Kfir were done over Mirage F1?

[M.A.D]

What if Kfir were done over Mirage F1?

Very nice, I like it ysi_maniac👍

MAD

[ChernayaAkula]

Mirage/Kfir. I suppose that would've been just the thing for the South Africans.  Atlas Cheetah, but taking the F.1 as a starting point instead of the III.

[M.A.D]

RAAF Mirage F-1 was to have been armed with AIM-7F/M and AIM-9L.

Any chance of such a profile ysi_maniac??😯

MAD

😯😯👍

Any chance ysi_maniac??

MAD

[ysi_maniac]

IMO these small changes will not have any significance: every AIM-9 have basically the same image and AIM-7 is so dull ...

... But, if one day I feel as to do it, you will get it 

[M.A.D]

IMO these small changes will not have any significance: every AIM-9 have basically the same image and AIM-7 is so dull ...

... But, if one day I feel as to do it, you will get it 

All good brother 😉

Thanks for your consideration just the same ysi_maniac👍

MAD

[ysi_maniac]

In this case, whiffery affects only to weapons: RW Mirage F1 never carried those missiles.

[GTX_Admin]

CFBVs

[ysi_maniac]

Before Eurofighter project, the Spanish government was not happy with the "captive client" policy practiced by Marcel Dassault; they was also not happy with the prior authorization by the US government to be able to use weapons of US origin. So... what if they brazenly decided to reverse engineer the Mirage F1, F-18 and the J79 engine to produce an indigenous fighter?

Here you see the Casa-AFX. 

[GTX_Admin]

[GTX_Admin]

[ysi_maniac]

Dassault Frankenstein Fighter

[GTX_Admin]

CFBVs

[upnorth]

What if the flow also went to the Mirage F1 with a VG variant?

I have a feeling that would severly curtail where you could use it.

Considering the similarity a VG Mirage F.1 would have to a MiG-23, you'd want to keep it well clear of any battle zone where Floggers could be present.

[ysi_maniac]

Dassault/Mitsubishi-F1



As suggested by zenrat.