Beyond The Sprues

Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Aero-space => Topic started by: GTX_Admin on January 26, 2012, 09:55:53 AM

Title: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 26, 2012, 09:55:53 AM
Hi folks,

Triggered by this comment of Evans, in Maverick's profile thread:

I suspect that Austrian one would be configured as a heavy interceptor.  'Twould be interesting to see the weapons fit on such an aircraft.

Her eis a thread for your dedicated Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration.

To start with, I like Evan's idea...maybe also for France and Australia.  What missiles though?

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 26, 2012, 09:58:32 AM
Another idea is for a RAAF Mirage IV armed with pave tack pod on the centreline.

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: jcf on January 26, 2012, 09:46:35 AM
  What missiles though?

Bendix Eagles, of course.  ;D
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 26, 2012, 10:01:57 AM
I was thinking of perhaps an active radar Matra R.530 or perhaps a Mirage IV able to guide multiple Matra R.530s.  Maybe even a Mirage I'VE armed with a pair each of standard SARH and standard IR Matra R.530s - 2 under each wing.  Would be a bit like a Soviet  interceptor then.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on January 26, 2012, 11:48:29 AM
Another idea is for a RAAF Mirage IV armed with pave tack pod on the centreline.

That would certainly be an interesting load out. 

What about arming it with electro-optical guided weapons such as the GBU-8?
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on January 26, 2012, 01:18:53 PM
Another idea is for a RAAF Mirage IV armed with pave tack pod on the centreline.
Fitted with LGBs or with AS-30L and other laser-guided weaponry?  I'd reckon most likely a mix to give the crew attack options.  At least with Pave Tack you don't need to keep pointed at the target.  I wonder how a laser-guided variant of the Martel or Exocet would look?  For that matter, add laser-guidance to a Sea Eagle?
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: dy031101 on January 26, 2012, 01:25:04 PM
Maybe duplicate the "supersonic external fuel tank with hardpoints" idea from the Mirage III/5?
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Maverick on January 26, 2012, 01:38:10 PM
Evan, I'm a little confused as to using laser-guided AShMs.  Given their range & internal active radar systems, where would the need/use of a laser guidance system come into place?

Regards,

John
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 26, 2012, 01:31:10 PM
For another idea, maybe a VG Mirage IV or perhaps a VTOL Mirage IV?
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on January 26, 2012, 01:36:51 PM
Evan, I'm a little confused as to using laser-guided AShMs.  Given their range & internal active radar systems, where would the need/use of a laser guidance system come into place?
You'd need to launch from altitude to get the view while staying out of engagement range, but detecting getting painted with a laser designator is a bit more difficult to catch than being tracked by an active radar.   It's about reducing the time the other side has to observe and react to an attack.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 26, 2012, 01:41:55 PM
For my RAAF Mirage IV, I am actually thinking of one in the later years of their service life and in the same dark grey scheme as worn by the F-111Cs:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/F111/121-A8-125FirstF-111tolandinAustraliain1973lasttolandin2010.jpg)

Armament might be either LGBs or even a pair of AGM-142s.

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Maverick on January 26, 2012, 02:15:32 PM
You'd need to launch from altitude to get the view while staying out of engagement range, but detecting getting painted with a laser designator is a bit more difficult to catch than being tracked by an active radar.   It's about reducing the time the other side has to observe and react to an attack.

Ok, but wouldn't the target's (or battlegroup's) radar pick up the launch aircraft if it was at altitude?  I was always of the assumption that half the reason for AShM's effectiveness is their ability to get down amongst the waves fairly early in the flight profile to avoid detection in the first instance.  Give the launch platform an altitude where it can paint a target with a laser and it has to stay there for all the world to see.  At least conventional AShMs are fire & forget not requiring continuous illumination like a laser guided weapon.  Their active radar (which I believe in some instances can be programmed to cycle anyway) was their main 'selling point' when the designs first came into play.

Regards,

John

Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 26, 2012, 02:20:03 PM
The idea of using LGBs for anti shipping strikes isn't that odd - the RAAF used to do this with the F-111.  A LGB is much less expensive then a AGM-84 or similar and you can also make use of a separate designator aircraft than the bomb carrier.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on January 26, 2012, 02:35:25 PM
Too, there's always launch from far away and designate with a drone (though the swiveling optics of the Pave Tack pod do allow you to designate while moving away from the target).
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 26, 2012, 02:27:12 PM
Basically use an over the shoulder toss.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on January 26, 2012, 02:40:07 PM
Basically use an over the shoulder toss.
That or just drop and turn away and track/designate using the swiveling optics head of the pod.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Maverick on January 26, 2012, 03:13:29 PM
I'd think you'd still be at altitude though and therefore a greater chance of giving a radar return?  Whilst this is all well and good (in fact, mandatory unless you're using off platform designation) with a guided bomb on a ballistic trajectory, I can't see the sense with a powered missile designed specifically to skim wavetops as part of its flight profile.

To my mind (mine, note) it seems a case of saying "hey guys, here we are up here shooting a missile at you" rather than launching a Harpoon or the like and exiting stage right as they say in the funnies.

Regards,

John
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 27, 2012, 02:42:11 AM
Another dowsed of the Missile over the LGB is that a missile is more prone to jamming etc.  Either way, both have their uses so it doesn't really matter does it.

Now getting back to Mirage IV ideas:

An Israeli Mirage IV with J-79s and a pair of AGM-142s.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on January 27, 2012, 08:57:00 AM
An Israeli Mirage IV with J-79s and a pair of AGM-142s.
That sounds like a winner.  Perhaps carrying a few AAMs for self-defense?
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 27, 2012, 09:01:50 AM
Python 3s or Python 4s on outer pylons. :icon_ninja:
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 27, 2012, 09:06:57 AM
I seem to recal a certain Sentinel Chicken doing some alternate Mirage IV profiles ...maybe he will be able to repost them here.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 27, 2012, 09:07:49 AM
Some Venezuelan Mirage IVs would certainly be interesting ...
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on January 27, 2012, 09:44:35 AM
Some Venezuelan Mirage IVs would certainly be interesting ...
Perhaps along side Brazilian ones?  I can't see any other nation down there affording a squadron of them.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on January 27, 2012, 09:45:27 AM
Python 3s or Python 4s on outer pylons. :icon_ninja:
Possibly a developed version with suitably sized canards?
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 27, 2012, 01:39:56 PM
Some Venezuelan Mirage IVs would certainly be interesting ...
Perhaps along side Brazilian ones?  I can't see any other nation down there affording a squadron of them.

Oh, yes please!
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on January 30, 2012, 03:23:08 AM
RAAF Mirage IVO armed with a lot of 1000 pound bombs for a mission somewhere in SEA wearing the camouflage scheme seen on the Canberra. 
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 30, 2012, 04:06:31 AM
RAAF Mirage IVO armed with a lot of 1000 pound bombs for a mission somewhere in SEA wearing the camouflage scheme seen on the Canberra.

Maybe in an extended Vietnam War scenario?
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on January 31, 2012, 01:55:08 AM
Another use for LGBs in anti-ship warfare come when you can get above the ceiling of the target's SAMs. I once, in a game of Harpoon, had the pleasure of "plinking" a Boris Chilikin class supply ship and it's escorting Krivak while their SA-N-4's spluttered and fell back 20,000 ft below my AV-8Bs.... 8)

2000lb LGBs are devastation in this scenario: they have about four times the warhead of typical AShMs and the hit vertically, going right down into the magazines.... :o


Re the Mirage IV, the "standard" Whiff must surely be an RAF one with Speys, which was proposed as a "high and fast" repalcement for TSR.2.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: upnorth on February 01, 2012, 08:13:29 PM
In my divided Austria alternate history, I came up with a storyline for an export version of the Mirage IV as a conventional strike platform.

I did away with the fuselage recess in favour of a redesigned lower fuselage with a series of hardpoints for pylons and moved the radar from the belly to the nose.

The removal of the recess and the relocation of the radar freed up an appreciable amount of internal volume for fuel and reduced the need for drop tanks in some mission profiles.

The revised forward fuselage provided better visibility to the crew and opened up space for newer avionics.

I felt such changes might have actually made the Mirage IV more attractive in real life as an export prospect.

Apophenia quite generously did up a couple of profiles:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e59/cancze/divided%20austria/austria-mirage-iv.jpg)

I've also thought the Mirage IV might have some potential in anti-shipping, SEAD or ECM missions as well.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Daryl J. on November 05, 2012, 04:07:00 AM
Egyptian.   Then the Israelis get the F-111 to counter it.
Both withdrawn on a peace accord, retain color schemes but carry markings of country of origin.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: arc3371 on November 05, 2012, 07:50:25 AM
How about a Swedish Mirage IV? Sweden continues nuclear weapons project but drops the A-36?
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Daryl J. on November 05, 2012, 07:53:35 AM
 :). This.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Daryl J. on December 10, 2012, 03:00:01 AM
Royal Norwegian Air Force, anti shipping or ELINT.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Volkodav on December 10, 2012, 05:27:27 PM
How about a Swedish Mirage IV? Sweden continues nuclear weapons project but drops the A-36?

Or a SAAB Draken IV, similar inconcept the Mirage IV, a larger twin engined bomber with a semi recessed nuc.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 12, 2012, 03:43:54 PM
Hmmm...does anyone produce a 1/32 Draken?
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on December 12, 2012, 11:28:11 PM
Hmmm...does anyone produce a 1/32 Draken?

Not as off 2007 according to the PAK-20 book Greg.  2007 is the last issue before the author retired, but Jeff Garrity of Rare-Plane Detective/Nostalgic Plastic tells me he is taking in any info on corrections to the books.  I'm wondering if he will continue the work --
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: jcf on December 13, 2012, 01:21:21 AM
If the SAAB Draken bomber is to be twin-engined like its French counterpart, then from a modelling
standpoint I think it would be easier to Draken-ize the old Heller 1/48 Mirage IV than to turn a single
engine 1/32 Draken kit into a twin.
If such kit even existed, of course. ;D
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on December 13, 2012, 02:22:05 AM
If the SAAB Draken bomber is to be twin-engined like its French counterpart, then from a modelling
standpoint I think it would be easier to Draken-ize the old Heller 1/48 Mirage IV than to turn a single
engine 1/32 Draken kit into a twin.
If such kit even existed, of course. ;D
i'd argue that working with a 1/48 Draken to make a 1/72 twin-engined bomber would work, though my take on a hybrid A-36 is a F-105F/Draken cross - 1/72 and 1/48 base kits respectively (using the old Lindberg/Addams Draken kit).
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on September 05, 2013, 01:42:37 PM
I always thought the Mirage IV would look great in RAAF markings, the ARDU "Fanta Can" scheme would look particularly fetching on it.

Great idea.  Hopefully someone will take that and create something in RAAF markings. 

Changing the nose on the Mirage IV to an actual radome instead of the IFR probe and camera ports would also be good.  Add an IFR probe from the Tornado somewhere near the cockpit area and adapt the radome from another Mirage variant to fit up front.  The other radome on the underside of the fuselage would also need to be removed to free up space for more fuel and external stores such as the stores pylons mounted on the fuselage of the Panavia Tornado.  With all of that space under the Mirage IV you could spread them out a little more so you could have all three in use at the same time. 
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: finsrin on September 05, 2013, 03:04:48 PM
Radome and air-to-air missiles to be a long range interceptor to deal with Russian and Chinese bombers and maritime patrol aircraft.
Can pack Harpoon and Tomahawk and ? for attack missions.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: upnorth on September 05, 2013, 03:27:31 PM
Radome and air-to-air missiles to be a long range interceptor to deal with Russian and Chinese bombers and maritime patrol aircraft.


That almost sounds like a Western answer to the Tupolev Tu-128 "Fiddler"
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: finsrin on September 05, 2013, 05:27:46 PM
Radome and air-to-air missiles to be a long range interceptor to deal with Russian and Chinese bombers and maritime patrol aircraft.


That almost sounds like a Western answer to the Tupolev Tu-128 "Fiddler"

Yes, thatz it.  Couldn't remember the designation.
Wonder what happend to them - like date of last flight?  Don't think therez any kits of the Tu-128 !
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on September 05, 2013, 07:20:24 PM
I think there's an A-Monster kit of the Tu-128, but be prepared for the damage it'll do to a) your wallet and b) your back....
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: upnorth on September 05, 2013, 07:48:20 PM
Radome and air-to-air missiles to be a long range interceptor to deal with Russian and Chinese bombers and maritime patrol aircraft.


That almost sounds like a Western answer to the Tupolev Tu-128 "Fiddler"

Yes, thatz it.  Couldn't remember the designation.
Wonder what happend to them - like date of last flight?  Don't think therez any kits of the Tu-128 !


Most references give 1990 as the retirement date of Russia's remaining "Fiddler" fleet. The AA-5 "Ash" missile that was peculiar to it was retired at the same time.

The MiG-31 "Foxhound" replaced the Tupolev in several units during the 1980s.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on September 05, 2013, 09:25:35 PM
Yes, thatz it.  Couldn't remember the designation.
Wonder what happend to them - like date of last flight?  Don't think therez any kits of the Tu-128 !

According to the PAK-20 book, you should really be looking at Tu-28/128.

In 1/72 scale there's; Cramer-Craft, Elliot, Leoman, Sanger (Contrail) and A-Model
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on September 06, 2013, 01:50:04 AM
What about an internal weapons bay where the original recessed area was located for the nuclear device?  With the removal of the bombing/navigation radar just ahead of this the space could then be allocated to fuel and equipment that may need to be moved from between the engines.  The weapons bay would not be very deep (think of something like that found on the TSR.2), just enough room for two to four 1000 pound class general purpose bombs depending on configuration.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 06, 2013, 04:56:53 AM
I love the idea of a Mirage IV heavy interceptor.  Maybe arm with boosted Matra R.530s?
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 06, 2013, 08:46:47 PM
I seem to recal a certain Sentinel Chicken doing some alternate Mirage IV profiles ...maybe he will be able to repost them here.


Speaking of which:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/image_zpsb1994024.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/image_zps7bec2e21.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/image_zps7100fb20.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/image_zpseff86c2c.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/image_zpsa27287f2.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/image_zpsf3b158b5.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/image_zps5ec8f6b0.jpg)
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 06, 2013, 08:47:22 PM
And one from Jeremy:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/image_zps25f249a3.jpg)
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 06, 2013, 08:48:24 PM
And finally, just a nice photo:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/image_zps68b83ac6.jpg)
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Rickshaw on September 08, 2013, 12:03:15 PM
oooh, now that is nice!   :D
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 09, 2013, 12:18:44 AM
I like to picture it as a pair of heavy interceptors...
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: Daryl J. on September 09, 2013, 12:20:41 AM
How many Matras?   
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: The Big Gimper on September 09, 2013, 12:32:16 AM
I like the RCAF version myself.  :icon_ninja:

Load it up with AIM-47s or AIM-54s. 
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 30, 2014, 03:10:37 AM
Random idea:  Venezuelan Mirage IV in this sort of scheme:

(http://panamericandefense.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/3319927505_6ca3fe351c.jpg)

Enough to make the USA a little more concernedůmaybe ;)
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 01, 2018, 04:51:23 AM
Apparently there were plans for variants with either RR Speys or TF-106 engines.  What about some other options:

Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 01, 2018, 05:03:10 AM
Some photos of the Mirage III and Mirage IV together to give a sense of the size difference:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VclYm45-dp0/UZy7vlZ4jiI/AAAAAAAACFs/QqCbcFYG6fs/s1600/Dassault_Series-01.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dAowwvDn7Ss/UZyHLWWmRAI/AAAAAAAACCc/0Ty_AVvRbI0/s1600/4898151871_26135d0f97_z.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0b/16/7c/0b167cc8206b685bc9451310b6d904b5.jpg)
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on October 18, 2018, 08:19:16 AM
Apparently there was a real world study, that never went beyond that, for a Mirage IVRJ version for Israel.  It would have been optimized for reconnaissance by with a secondary ground attack capability.  It suggests several interesting whif possibilities.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on October 18, 2018, 12:24:32 PM
I keep thinking of an Israeli Mirage IV with a recessed Pave Tack pod and LGB's hung on combined fuel tank/ejector rack units under the wings.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on October 18, 2018, 06:35:48 PM
Apparently there was a real world study, that never went beyond that, for a Mirage IVRJ version for Israel.  It would have been optimized for reconnaissance by with a secondary ground attack capability.  It suggests several interesting whif possibilities.

Considering Israel is supposed to have nuclear weapons, it would be a way to deliver them too ---. The Heller 1/72 kit I have comes with a 'shape' ----
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 19, 2018, 03:07:54 AM
I keep thinking of an Israeli Mirage IV with a recessed Pave Tack pod and LGB's hung on combined fuel tank/ejector rack units under the wings.

I have considered similar for a late '80s era RAAF version.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on October 23, 2018, 09:55:44 AM
According to the 50tj Anniversary history of Dassault, the Mirage IVR was a recce and conventional strike variant with all nuclear capability removed.  It apparently was proposed to Australia and Germany.  The Germans wanted enhanced fuel tankage and, for commonality with their fighter fleet, J79 engines.  Stretching the fuselage and adding the cooling scoops for the J79s (IIRC, they run hotter than the ATAR 9K engines) would make a nice whif, especially if other countries operating J79-powered aircraft took an interest.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 24, 2018, 02:47:42 AM
Any drawings?
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on October 24, 2018, 03:20:25 AM
Any drawings?
Unfortunately, no.  Just the written descriptions.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: tankmodeler on October 24, 2018, 11:11:23 PM
According to the 50tj Anniversary history of Dassault, the Mirage IVR was a recce and conventional strike variant with all nuclear capability removed.  It apparently was proposed to Australia and Germany.  The Germans wanted enhanced fuel tankage and, for commonality with their fighter fleet, J79 engines.  Stretching the fuselage and adding the cooling scoops for the J79s (IIRC, they run hotter than the ATAR 9K engines) would make a nice whif, especially if other countries operating J79-powered aircraft took an interest.
Flying an aircraft designed for ATAR 9s on J-79s would have been sporty, indeed. The J-79 has 50% more thrust on burner than the ATAR 9. In fact, the J-79 has almost as much thrust "dry" as the ATAR does on full reheat.

If the German government had been willing to accept a small max speed decrease, they probably could have gotten a supercruising Mirage IV with far greater range if they used J-79s but completely deleted the afterburner cans and either cut the fuselage shorter to reduce form drag and/or increased tankgage and moved the engines back and shortened the inlet ducts to suit.

Imagine a Mirage IV with a, say, Mach 1.9 sustained speed (instead of 2.2) cruising at that speed for the entire range of 1000 miles (instead of 775 mi for the regular Mirage IV). Much more effective and harder to intercept in the mid 60s to 80s period than a subsonic cruise plus 5 minutes at M2.2 in and out of the target.

Using a dry thrust Spey would have been even better for range, but would have needed deeper fuselage for the larger engines and larger inlets, possibly costing a bit more speed at the top end, but likely permitting that speed to be maintained for even longer given the much greater economy of a turbofan.

Smells like very WHIFable concepts...
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on October 25, 2018, 12:55:48 AM
I believe a reheated ATAR 9K-10 is not that far off a reheated J79, 15,800 lbf as opposed to 15,600 - 17,900 lbf depending on J79 version.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 25, 2018, 02:37:15 AM
Is there anything on the significantly larger Mirage IVB design, powered by two SNECMA license-built Pratt & Whitney J75 engines and having a wing area of 120 m▓ (1,290 sq ft) compared to 70 m▓ (750 sq ft) of the prototype IV, as well as a speed of Mach 2.4 and a gross weight of 64,000 kilograms (140,000 lb)?

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-XWS3tKizGY4/T6fcZbxhVcI/AAAAAAAABQw/xtLEEHze-Kc/s640/ensemble1b.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-MXMoTjo0PpY/T6fcZRFE8zI/AAAAAAAABQ0/0fqvkNIiD-g/s640/ensemble2b.jpg)

Or the Mirage IV-106 variant with 2 SNECMA TF106 (license-built Pratt and Whitney) engines, an enlarged 105,000 gross-weight fuselage, terrain-avoidance radar, and armed with a proposed French version of the American Douglas GAM-87 Skybolt air-launched ballistic missile?
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 25, 2018, 02:44:08 AM
BTW, the Mirage IVB has been modelled:

(http://maquette72.free.fr/amis/JCHoug/2014_20_mirage4b/photos_jch_mirage4b/000_mirage4b.jpg)

See here (http://maquette72.free.fr/amis/JCHoug/2014_20_mirage4b/index_ajch20.php) for more details.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on October 25, 2018, 06:50:49 AM
Is there anything on the significantly larger Mirage IVB design, powered by two SNECMA license-built Pratt & Whitney J75 engines and having a wing area of 120 m▓ (1,290 sq ft) compared to 70 m▓ (750 sq ft) of the prototype IV, as well as a speed of Mach 2.4 and a gross weight of 64,000 kilograms (140,000 lb)?

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-XWS3tKizGY4/T6fcZbxhVcI/AAAAAAAABQw/xtLEEHze-Kc/s640/ensemble1b.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-MXMoTjo0PpY/T6fcZRFE8zI/AAAAAAAABQ0/0fqvkNIiD-g/s640/ensemble2b.jpg)

Or the Mirage IV-106 variant with 2 SNECMA TF106 (license-built Pratt and Whitney) engines, an enlarged 105,000 gross-weight fuselage, terrain-avoidance radar, and armed with a proposed French version of the American Douglas GAM-87 Skybolt air-launched ballistic missile?
The Dassault 50th Anniversary book has three-views of the Mirage IV 01, the Mirage IVA, the Mirage IVB, and the Minerve IV with Gamma II missile.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 26, 2018, 02:14:39 AM
Which book is that?
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: elmayerle on October 26, 2018, 03:24:49 AM
Which book is that?
It's a two-volume boxed set, 1945-1995, 50 Years of Aeronautical Adventure and is a 50th anniversary history of Dassault.  Book 1 covers "The Corporation" and Book 2 covers "The Programs".  It's published by Editiones Du Chene and is quite the massive boxed set.

I purchase mine through Amazon (only place I've seen it).
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 14, 2020, 03:33:37 AM
One from Secret Projects that deserved to be posted here:

It all started with this quote by Paul:

Quote
"Dassault and British Aircraft Corp. have made a presentation of the Mirage 4 powered with Rolls-Royce Tyne engines" Aviation Week, 26 July 1965.

To which Chris Gibson has responded to with this (amongst other iterations):

(https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/GTwiner117/Dassault_Mirage_IV_Connerie_4_engines_A4_zpsdwf5k0kj.png)

Original thread (https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/mirage-iv-with-tyne-engines.33510/#post-387477)
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: finsrin on April 14, 2020, 04:13:01 AM
OH GOSH !      Is Mirage IV in stash.
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 04, 2020, 03:22:19 AM
(https://combatace.com/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-841-0-16419400-1422910049.jpg)
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 21, 2021, 03:17:29 AM
Random idea - Mirage IV anti shipping version carrying two Exocets
Title: Re: Mirage IV Ideas and Inspiration
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 12, 2021, 01:56:29 AM
Just a photo:

(https://combatace.com/uploads/post-25040-1239390883.jpg)

CFBV