Beyond The Sprues

Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Land => Topic started by: Jeffry Fontaine on April 28, 2012, 12:11:33 AM

Title: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on April 28, 2012, 12:11:33 AM
Alexander Jost used the Perfect Scale (Kit number 35040) Leopard Upgrade kit to build his HobbyBoss 1/35th scale Leopard 2A4 (http://www.modellversium.de/galerie/22-militaer-fahrzeuge/9649-leopard-2a4-hobbyboss.html)
(http://www.modellversium.de/galerie/bilder/6/4/9/9649-tumb.jpg) (http://www.modellversium.de/galerie/22-militaer-fahrzeuge/9649-leopard-2a4-hobbyboss.html)
Click on thumbnail or html to view the build article at Modellversium.de (http://www.modellversium.de/)

Alex has built a very nice looking Leopard 2.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 28, 2012, 03:46:28 AM
That's very well done!
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 28, 2012, 04:47:41 AM
Some photos of the Leo2 prototype:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/he-162/leo2p1001.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/he-162/leo2p3001.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/he-162/leo2p2001.jpg)

Note the extra 20mm cannon secondary target /anti-aircraft use.

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 28, 2012, 04:52:25 AM
Some real world Leo1 proposals:

MLRS:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/he-162/leomrls001.jpg)

SPH:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/he-162/leohow1001.jpg)


Matador twin 30mm SPAAG:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/he-162/leomat1001.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/he-162/leomat2001.jpg)

Leo1 with 120mm main gun (sometimes also referred to as Leo3):

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/he-162/Leo120a.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/he-162/Leo120c.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/he-162/Leo120d.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/he-162/Leo120b.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 28, 2012, 10:56:18 AM
How about a Leo1 based heavy IFV:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/leopard-1-ICV.gif)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 28, 2012, 10:58:53 AM
Leo3 shown above:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/leopard-3-a4.gif)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 28, 2012, 10:59:41 AM
Leo1 based demolition tank:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/leopard-1-a4ha.gif)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 28, 2012, 11:00:24 AM
Leo one based APC:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/leopard-1-a4apc.gif)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 28, 2012, 11:04:46 AM
JagdLeo1:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/jagdleopard-1-a4.gif)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Rickshaw on April 28, 2012, 12:11:42 PM
The APC variants seem to have no rear exists.   I think a better idea was shown the the Jordanian conversion of the Centurion to a HAPC, the Temash, where they reversed the vehicle, driving it effectively backwards so that the exit was now through what was previously the front glacis.  The Leopard 1 would also be rather a light-weight HAPC, it was never heavily armoured.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: ChernayaAkula on April 28, 2012, 09:41:09 PM
Diethelm Berlage built a Leopard 1A6 from the Revell/Italeri kit and a self-made conversion set. More pics HERE (http://www.modellversium.de/galerie/22-militaer-fahrzeuge/8189-leopard-1a6-revell.html).

(http://a.modellversium.de/galerie/bilder/1/8/9/8189-3110430.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 29, 2012, 02:36:32 AM
Given the Leo1 was a contemporary of the French AMX-30, what about a couple of variants similar to AMX-30 variants.  Namely, what if we were to have a Roland SAM armed Gepard or a version with the turret from a GCT 155mm/AuF1?

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/AMX-30_Roland_img_2306.jpg/800px-AMX-30_Roland_img_2306.jpg)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/AuF1_of_Saudi_Arabia.JPEG/800px-AuF1_of_Saudi_Arabia.JPEG)

The latter would be quite able to be modelled by stealing the turret from a Heller 1/35 AMX 30 AUFI.  I'm not sure about the Roland though...does anyone do a kit of any Roland variant?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: elmayerle on April 29, 2012, 03:45:00 AM
That first Leo! MLRS with the dual "six-packs" could be interesting, particularly if a second unit was converted to carry reloads.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 29, 2012, 03:55:56 AM
Some different Gepard proposals:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/Artic/GepardChaparral.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/Artic/GepardRapier.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/Artic/GepardRoland.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Feldmarschall Zod on April 29, 2012, 06:57:14 AM
I love that Leo demolition. ;)

I have the Tamiya leo I in the stash. I am thinking of adding an 88 to it,for a post war scenario where the Thierd Riech was not defeated. The Leo was fast for its time. Over 30 MPH. Imagine that speed with an 88. :o
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Maverick on April 29, 2012, 08:23:52 AM
Given the Leo 1 has a 105mm gun, an 88 would be quite a downgrade.  The Germans were experimenting with 105mm & 128mm tank weapons in late WW2, so a 105mm equipped vehicle is quite valid.

Regards,

John
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Feldmarschall Zod on April 29, 2012, 08:38:40 AM
Given the Leo 1 has a 105mm gun, an 88 would be quite a downgrade.  The Germans were experimenting with 105mm & 128mm tank weapons in late WW2, so a 105mm equipped vehicle is quite valid.

Regards,

John
That is true John. :) I wonder who all makes a W.W.2 German 105mm main gun.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 29, 2012, 10:55:44 AM
You would probably be best placed to derive it from the German 10.5cm Flak 38-39:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Flak_38_01.jpg)

Not sure if anyone models it.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: apophenia on April 29, 2012, 11:36:22 AM
My take on Leopard recce and DFSV.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Maverick on April 29, 2012, 11:37:08 AM
For an actual tank gun, the 'Dicker Max' or 10.5cm K18 auf Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IVa was armed with the 105mm K18 gun.  I believe Trumpeter makes a kit of the type in 35th scale.

Regards,

John
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: apophenia on April 29, 2012, 11:39:17 AM
Weren't the Germans also working on a 100mm low-recoil (recoilless?) gun during WWII?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: dy031101 on April 29, 2012, 12:14:27 PM
Leo1 with 120mm main gun (sometimes also referred to as Leo3)......

With MEXAS armour pack for a what-if Canadian tank?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Jacques Deguerre on April 29, 2012, 12:50:40 PM
You know, somewhere at some point in time, I swear I remember reading a proposal from Giat (or Nexter) that involved equipping the Leo 1 with various turrets from the AMX 30 family. I got the 155 mm SP gun and I kind of understood the DCA (for countries that didn't use the Gepard) but the reason for swapping the turret from the gun tank went over my head a bit.

I've always been a fan of the "cast turret" versions of the Leo 1 and the later A5-A6 variants of the Leo 2. Both also seem like great subjects for Whiffing.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 29, 2012, 01:01:19 PM
For an actual tank gun, the 'Dicker Max' or 10.5cm K18 auf Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IVa was armed with the 105mm K18 gun.  I believe Trumpeter makes a kit of the type in 35th scale.

Regards,

John

I forgot about that one.  Yes there are kits available from at least DML and Trumpeter in 1/35.

How good was the K18 in the antitank role?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Maverick on April 29, 2012, 01:04:19 PM
According to Achtung Panzer, the gun was capable of penetrating 111mm of 30 degrees sloped armor plate at 2000 meters which isn't too shabby and apparently had success against KV & T-34 series vehicles.

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/sel105.htm#pzjag (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/sel105.htm#pzjag)

Regards,

John
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Rickshaw on April 29, 2012, 02:50:13 PM
You would probably be best placed to derive it from the German 10.5cm Flak 38-39:

Not sure if anyone models it.

Many decades ago, Nitto did.  IIRC Fujimi took up the moulds and re-released it more recently.  The 10.5cm Flak 38-39 wasn't a terribly successful design, falling as it were between the two stools of the 8.8cm and the 12.8cm.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Rickshaw on April 29, 2012, 02:56:27 PM
Weren't the Germans also working on a 100mm low-recoil (recoilless?) gun during WWII?

They were working on many weird and wonderful weapons.  They fielded a 105mm Rcl but the expense of using it (it used twice as much propellant as a normal gun) killed it.   They also fielded in very small numbers a 8cm PAW 800 gun which used the high-low pressure principle.  They were experimenting with a 10.0cm PAW 1000 weapon but never fielded it.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Rickshaw on April 29, 2012, 02:59:02 PM
For an actual tank gun, the 'Dicker Max' or 10.5cm K18 auf Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IVa was armed with the 105mm K18 gun.  I believe Trumpeter makes a kit of the type in 35th scale.

Regards,

John

I forgot about that one.  Yes there are kits available from at least DML and Trumpeter in 1/35.

How good was the K18 in the antitank role?

Potentially very good but it was a cumbersome weapon and coming from the Artillery branch, rather than the armoured one a bit behind the eight-ball, as it were.  Their were only 2 Dickermax built and they proved a bit of a failure - more because of the chassis chosen than the gun necessarily.  One was captured by the Russians and put on display in Moscow where several pictures that have been published of it come from.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Feldmarschall Zod on April 30, 2012, 03:36:31 AM
For an actual tank gun, the 'Dicker Max' or 10.5cm K18 auf Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IVa was armed with the 105mm K18 gun.  I believe Trumpeter makes a kit of the type in 35th scale.

Regards,

John

Thanks John. I have the DML version in the stash. Hopefully a metal barrel is available somewhere. :D
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 30, 2012, 03:45:31 AM

Thanks John. I have the DML version in the stash. Hopefully a metal barrel is available somewhere. :D


RB Model do one in 1/35:

(http://www.rbmodel.com/data/foto/big/35B65/04.jpg)
(http://www.rbmodel.com/data/foto/big/35B65/03.jpg)

You can usually find them for sale on eBay.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Feldmarschall Zod on April 30, 2012, 05:13:13 AM

Thanks John. I have the DML version in the stash. Hopefully a metal barrel is available somewhere. :D


RB Model do one in 1/35:

([url]http://www.rbmodel.com/data/foto/big/35B65/04.jpg[/url])
([url]http://www.rbmodel.com/data/foto/big/35B65/03.jpg[/url])

You can usually find them for sale on eBay.

Thanks chief. :) That barrel would look good on a Leo I circa 1948. >:D
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: apophenia on April 30, 2012, 10:09:51 AM
Rickshaw: Thanks for the aide-mémoire -- 10.0cm PAW 1000 was the one I was thinking of.

You know, somewhere at some point in time, I swear I remember reading a proposal from Giat (or Nexter) that involved equipping the Leo 1 with various turrets from the AMX 30 family... but the reason for swapping the turret from the gun tank went over my head a bit ...

That's been proposed a couple of times. One non-Giat proposal was Santa Bárbara Sistemas' Proyecto LEOX. A hull was procured from Krauss-Maffei (and is still in Seville, apparently) but I'm not sure if the turret swap was ever completed. The point of the project was to eliminate drivetrain problems with the AMX-30E while avoiding British export bans on the Leopard 1A3's RO L7A3 main guns.

IIRC, Proyecto LEOX was meant as an fill-in after the collapse of the 1985 domestic Lince tank project (also by Krauss-Maffei and Santa Bárbara). There were a host of alternative proposals all involving new transmissions (or engines) for the AMX-30E. Eventually, Spain chose the AMX-30EM1 / AMX-30EM2 upgrades before moving on to Leopard 2E and Centauro replacements.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Jacques Deguerre on April 30, 2012, 11:19:07 AM

.... One non-Giat proposal was Santa Bárbara Sistemas' Proyecto LEOX. A hull was procured from Krauss-Maffei (and is still in Seville, apparently) but I'm not sure if the turret swap was ever completed. The point of the project was to eliminate drivetrain problems with the AMX-30E while avoiding British export bans on the Leopard 1A3's RO L7A3 main guns.

IIRC, Proyecto LEOX was meant as an fill-in after the collapse of the 1985 domestic Lince tank project (also by Krauss-Maffei and Santa Bárbara). There were a host of alternative proposals all involving new transmissions (or engines) for the AMX-30E. Eventually, Spain chose the AMX-30EM1 / AMX-30EM2 upgrades before moving on to Leopard 2E and Centauro replacements.

AH HA! THAT was the reason. Thank you for jarring my memory about the embargo of the L7. I seem to recall (possibly from the same source) that, at the time, the AMX 30 was felt to have either a superior or at least more familiar fire control system than the Leo 1.

On a vaguely related note, while the power train problems of the AMX30 are pretty well known, I read an account from a Spanish tanker who said he felt that the gun of the older M47 was superior to the French 105! Take that for what it's worth because I have no way to verify it. Regardless, I would still like to build a LEOX in 1/35 because it sounds like a cool idea for a Whif model.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Rickshaw on April 30, 2012, 07:44:30 PM
There were also the proposed "Lion" - a project from Oto-Melara (who licensed built the Leopard 1 for the Italian Army) - a tropicalised, specialist desert version of the Leopard.  It had a superficially different hull and turret - much squarer than the cast turret Leopard 1.  However, no one was willing to buy it and they produced instead the OF40, which was purchased by the UAE (36 MBTs + 2 ARVs).  It too was essentially an upgraded, tropicalised Leopard 1.  Again, with a much squarer hull and turret.

(http://www.enemyforces.net/tanks/of40_sh.jpg)

Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: apophenia on May 01, 2012, 08:23:45 AM
... I read an account from a Spanish tanker who said he felt that the gun of the older M47 was superior to the French 105! ...

The preference probably sprang from the M47's main gun being stabilized (at least for elevation). AFAIK, the AMX-30E's CN-105-F1 wasn't. So, likely that tanker was willing to trade calibre for more accuracy on the move.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: apophenia on May 01, 2012, 08:26:45 AM
... a tropicalised, specialist desert version of the Leopard...

Could have used some of those in Kandahar in 2006  ;)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Jacques Deguerre on May 01, 2012, 10:33:25 PM
I've always thought thought the OF 40 had a sexier looking turret than the Leo 1A3-A4 series. Looks like it would be a cool variant of the Leo 1 for one of my "Imagi-Nations" that primarily uses modern German equipment.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on July 19, 2012, 01:27:35 AM
Leopard 2 Tank Hunter what-if built by Paul Hennessy (http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1342594004/My+first+paper-panzer) and posted on the forum at Missing-Lynx (http://www.missing-lynx.com/)

Click on image or html to view topic at Missing-Lynx forums.

(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x399/pod1610/SANY2485.jpg) (http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1342594004/My+first+paper-panzer)
(Image source: Paul Hennessy - photobucket.com)

Of course I sent an invitation to Paul right after I found his topic :)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 19, 2012, 02:20:53 AM
 :)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Frank3k on July 19, 2012, 02:22:57 AM
I made an "urban" Leo a few years ago:

(http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/uleo/uleo19.jpg)

inspired by BuzzBomb's urban M1:

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,26318.0.html (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,26318.0.html)

Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on July 19, 2012, 02:35:55 AM
I made an "urban" Leo a few years ago:

([url]http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/uleo/uleo19.jpg[/url])

inspired by BuzzBomb's urban M1: [url]http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,26318.0.html[/url] ([url]http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,26318.0.html[/url])


Your 'Urban Leo looks like WALL-E (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0910970/)'s bigger brother with that little elevated sensor mast sticking up at an angle like that. 

Click on thumbnail to view larger image. 

(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BNjUyODI5MzQyOV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNTgwMzMzMw@@._V1._CR0,0,1378,1378_SS80_.jpg) (http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BNjUyODI5MzQyOV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNTgwMzMzMw@@._V1._SX640_SY951_.jpg)
Source: Internet Movie Data Base (imdb.com) (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm400919808/tt0910970)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Jacques Deguerre on July 19, 2012, 07:54:11 AM
That "Jagd-Leo" is too cool! Paul mentioned that the casement tanks were a partial inspiration and that was the first thing I thought of when I saw it.

Frank, do you have more photos of your urban combat Leo? While there have been a few nice MBTs converted to this type of vehicle, yours is the best execution of the idea I've seen so far.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Frank3k on July 19, 2012, 12:02:29 PM
Frank, do you have more photos of your urban combat Leo? While there have been a few nice MBTs converted to this type of vehicle, yours is the best execution of the idea I've seen so far.


Thanks Jacques! The build thread is over on the What-if board: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,26900.0 (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,26900.0)
I think Brian's (Buzzbomb's) is the best I've seen.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Jacques Deguerre on July 19, 2012, 10:41:32 PM
Thanks for the link, Frank! Now I must confess to being in the running for a "Derp Of The Month" award since I realized I've looked at your build thread over on WhIf a number of times. :-[
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on October 15, 2012, 10:05:14 PM
An update on Paul Hennessy's Leopard 2 Tank Hunter project can be seen at this link: A paper-panzer update (http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1350249357/A+paper-panzer+update) on the Missing-Lynx forums. 



Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on November 19, 2012, 02:39:33 AM
Random Idea:  Leo1 with ERA to keep it relevant.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: raafif on November 19, 2012, 05:33:35 AM
when Teledyne was experimenting with the MGS-retro-equip, a Leo-1 marketing-model (1/35th scale) had applique armour added to the front top areas.  I don't see why it wouldn't have been extended over the whole tank if that project had gone ahead.

photo of that promo model sent to me by the guy who built all of these concept models for Teledyne.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on November 19, 2012, 02:55:44 PM
Oh, now that does look nice.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on November 19, 2012, 03:00:44 PM
Another random idea:  Leo1s converted into something akin to the BTR-T:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo-51.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/photo-50.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: ChernayaAkula on November 19, 2012, 09:01:41 PM
^ Maybe a Leo 1 with the turret (or a development thereof) of a Begleitpanzer (LINK (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1074.msg12812#msg12812))?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Mark Aldrich on November 19, 2012, 09:15:55 PM
The Roland is made in resin 1/35 by a Spanish company called Nimix.

http://www.nimix.net/paginas%20de%20items/3501%20AMX30%20Roland_ingles.htm (http://www.nimix.net/paginas%20de%20items/3501%20AMX30%20Roland_ingles.htm)

There is also one made by Militarmodellbau but I can't seem to find a store or web site.

Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on November 20, 2012, 02:25:36 AM
Hmmm...might have to get a Roland.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Mark Aldrich on November 20, 2012, 07:02:01 AM
The "other" Roland is mounted on what I think is a modified Marder Chassis.  Here is a link to it....

http://www.modellboard.net/index.php?topic=23156.0 (http://www.modellboard.net/index.php?topic=23156.0)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: raafif on November 20, 2012, 03:47:42 PM
The Germans also mounted the Roland on a MAN 8x8 truck and the USA mounted it on a modified M-109 chassis ..... but I do prefer the Marder-IFV version :-*
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Volkodav on November 20, 2012, 06:27:09 PM
I remember seeing a Marder Rapier combo in a 1970's edition of Janes (I think Armour and Artillery).  It was a retactable version of the standard four missile towed launcher permitting under armour reloading.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: apophenia on November 21, 2012, 11:36:25 AM
^ Maybe a Leo 1 with the turret (or a development thereof) of a Begleitpanzer (LINK ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1074.msg12812#msg12812[/url]))?


Sort of like the Canadian Leopard C2A4 on page 2?   ;D
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1300.msg16485#msg16485 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1300.msg16485#msg16485)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: arkon on November 21, 2012, 02:49:15 PM
GTX=what is that option number three on your last pic?......dual linked railguns? ;) ;)lol
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on November 21, 2012, 04:48:08 PM
GTX=what is that option number three on your last pic?......dual linked railguns? ;) ;)lol

1. 2A42 automatic gun (caliber 30 mm); 
Launcher of Konkurs ATGM (caliber 135 mm ; quantity 2 pcs); 

2. 2A42 automatic gun (caliber 30 mm); 
AGS-17 automatic grenade launcher (caliber 30 mm); 

3. 2A38 twin-barrel submachine gun 30mm  (caliber 135 mm ; quantity 2 pcs); 
  
4. NSV anti-air-machine gun (caliber 12.7 mm); 
Launcher of Konkurs ATGM (caliber 135 mm ; quantity 2 pcs); 

5. NSV anti-air machine gun (caliber 12.7 mm); 
AGS-17 automatic grenade launcher (caliber 30 mm). 

* The installation of NATO armament complexes is also available
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: kitnut617 on November 21, 2012, 11:03:28 PM

3. 2A38 twin-barrel submachine gun 30mm  (caliber 135 mm ; quantity 2 pcs); 
   

A 30mm submachine gun    :icon_surprised:
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on November 22, 2012, 02:16:11 AM
Blame a bad translation somewhere - in reality, the 2A38 is a 30mm auto cannon.  In fact, it is the same one as on the Tunguska Air Defence system.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: kitnut617 on November 22, 2012, 04:13:52 AM
I was having visions of troops being genetically altered into Hulks just to handle it Greg    ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: arkon on November 22, 2012, 08:37:27 AM
30mm submachine gun, the reason space marines came to be!
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: elmayerle on November 22, 2012, 02:38:43 PM
30mm submachine gun, the reason space marines came to be!
That reminds me of the Marines of John Ringo's & "Doc" Taylor's Vorpal Blade series where one of them in powered armor has a pair of pistols made from .50 caliber Barretts.  I do highly recommend the series for good mil SF reading.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 01, 2012, 03:48:05 AM
Random idea:  what if the XM-150 152 mm gun/launcher from the MBT-70 had been carried over for the Leo2?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 22, 2013, 09:30:55 AM
Flowing on from discussion in the Takom tank models thread (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3211.msg61006#msg61006): Whatif rather than getting M1s, the ARA is forced to go with a "cheaper" option of upgrading the Leo1s.  They give them a major hull overhaul , possibly a new/improved engine, MEXAS armour, new fire control system, new 120mm gun etc, etc…

The resulting vehicle would have aspects from both the Leo 1A6 and the Leo1 C2 with Mexas:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/image_zps7796b87c.jpg)

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/image_zps9a6472c8.jpg)

Maybe call it a Leopard 1A6 (AS2)?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Gingie on January 20, 2014, 05:28:21 AM
Some real world Leo1 proposals:

MLRS:

([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/he-162/leomrls001.jpg[/url])



I am really digging that RS-80! Mike Shackleton says there's one in a German museum. Anyone know which one?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: elmayerle on January 20, 2014, 01:49:43 PM
that second one looks real close to the missile-tube portion of the GLCM TEL.  I wonder if you could do tactical, non-nuke, GLCM launchers that way?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Gingie on January 21, 2014, 06:58:20 AM
are you referring to the trailer mounted launcher towed by a MAN 8x8?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: elmayerle on January 21, 2014, 11:20:26 AM
are you referring to the trailer mounted launcher towed by a MAN 8x8?
I believe so.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Gingie on January 22, 2014, 06:37:24 AM
it *does* look a bit like that! Hmm...

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/BGM-109G_Gryphon_-_ID_DF-ST-84-09185.JPEG)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Zaskar24 on January 03, 2015, 09:16:11 PM
Given the Leo 1 has a 105mm gun, an 88 would be quite a downgrade.  The Germans were experimenting with 105mm & 128mm tank weapons in late WW2, so a 105mm equipped vehicle is quite valid.

Regards,

John

That is true John. :) I wonder who all makes a W.W.2 German 105mm main gun.


Really late to this conversation.  I did find someone who makes a German 10.5 cm L68 barrel for the Tiger II. 
http://zitaderdirect.cart.fc2.com/ca16/43/p-r4-s/ (http://zitaderdirect.cart.fc2.com/ca16/43/p-r4-s/)
Hopefully I did that correctly.  It was an extremely pleasant experience and the shipping was quick as all get out.  Considering the fact that I ordered it on December 19th and it was at my house on the 24th.  Now to get a Tiger II kit to use this on.  Wash out Uncle Joe!
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Zaskar24 on January 03, 2015, 09:32:08 PM
Flowing on from discussion in the Takom tank models thread ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3211.msg61006#msg61006[/url]): Whatif rather than getting M1s, the ARA is forced to go with a "cheaper" option of upgrading the Leo1s.  They give them a major hull overhaul , possibly a new/improved engine, MEXAS armour, new fire control system, new 120mm gun etc, etc…

The resulting vehicle would have aspects from both the Leo 1A6 and the Leo1 C2 with Mexas:

([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/image_zps7796b87c.jpg[/url])

([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/image_zps9a6472c8.jpg[/url])

Maybe call it a Leopard 1A6 (AS2)?


I was thinking something similar.  More powerful engine and transmission to handle the increased weight, possibly smaller as well to free up some room for more fuel and ammo.  Air conditioning for tropical climates as well as NBC equipment.  Just in case.  The only thing I have not been able to find a clear answer to in my searches is how many 120 mm rounds it would be able to carry.  Or go with the MGS turret possibly up-gunned to a 120 mm L44.   
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Volkodav on January 03, 2015, 10:24:42 PM
Updated Leo 1s would have been ideal for reserve RAAC tank squadrons in the reserve Beersheba brigades, not state of the art I know but a fair bit more survivable than the Bushmaster IMVs and Landrovers they will have instead.  Nice easy back story though, Leopards retained an upgraded instead of being retired when the Abrams entered service, get an extra ten or fifteen years out of them before cascading the M-1A1 AIM SEPs (TUSK) down to them as the new build M-1A3s enter service.

May be time to add one of these new kits to the stash.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: ChernayaAkula on January 04, 2015, 12:48:33 AM
<...>  The only thing I have not been able to find a clear answer to in my searches is how many 120 mm rounds it would be able to carry. <...>
42 rounds, according to Hilmes' "Typenkompass KPz Leopard 1".  :)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 04, 2015, 03:31:40 AM
The only thing I have not been able to find a clear answer to in my searches is how many 120 mm rounds it would be able to carry. 

When fitted with the 120 mm smoothbore gun, 42 rounds were supposedly carried, the same as in the Leopard 2, with 13 in the turret, two ready for use and 27 in the hull.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Zaskar24 on January 04, 2015, 05:54:26 AM
Thank you for the info CA and GTX!
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on February 14, 2015, 06:05:52 AM
Just an interesting photo:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/f4fb8c4c_zps637922db.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Old Wombat on February 14, 2015, 10:26:13 AM
Oops? :-[
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Gingie on February 17, 2015, 12:43:27 AM
That photo explains why you site defensive position on a reverse slope!

Singaporean 2A4?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Rickshaw on February 17, 2015, 09:15:22 AM
Either he is on full advance or full retreat...   8)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: LemonJello on February 17, 2015, 09:19:44 AM
At least they kept the muzzle of the main gun out of the dirt.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on February 18, 2015, 02:41:40 AM
Singaporean 2A4?

Correct - Singaporean Leopard 2A4 with the Evolution upgrade
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Kerick on February 18, 2015, 05:18:21 AM
From the tracks in the dirt he must have been going backwards. Seems tanks get into more trouble that way.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on February 19, 2015, 02:41:24 AM
No, it was going forwards...I've seen the before shot
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: ttc123 on May 09, 2015, 03:10:06 PM
Some real world Leo1 proposals:

MLRS:

([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/he-162/leomrls001.jpg[/url])

SPH:

([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/he-162/leohow1001.jpg[/url])



What's the source for these images? Like, what book? I'd like to learn more about these tanks if possible.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: dy031101 on May 10, 2015, 12:58:38 AM
Just an artist impression of what-if.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Volkodav on May 10, 2015, 01:40:46 AM
I believe there was actually a prototype Leopard 1 SPG with the French GCT turret.  Fairly sure the is a photo in one of my books, just need to remember which one and hope its not one that's still in a packing box.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 10, 2015, 04:10:06 AM

What's the source for these images? Like, what book? I'd like to learn more about these tanks if possible.


This book:

(http://img.zvab.com/member/10623p/43881712.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 10, 2015, 04:19:27 AM
I believe there was actually a prototype Leopard 1 SPG with the French GCT turret.  Fairly sure the is a photo in one of my books, just need to remember which one and hope its not one that's still in a packing box.


This one:

(http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k337/Knight_of_Zero/193093_original.jpg~original)
(http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k337/Knight_of_Zero/193389_original.jpg~original)

This was developed as a private venture by Krauss-Maffei and Giat but found no buyers.  Would be interesting to do an operational version.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 10, 2015, 04:23:01 AM
Here's a challenge for anyone brave enough.  Replicate this:

(http://i.imgur.com/mB66jUF.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: ChernayaAkula on May 10, 2015, 04:33:38 AM
That's pretty cool!  8) Which museum is that?

That glacis armour looks decidedly underwhelming.  :icon_surprised:
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 10, 2015, 04:42:25 AM
Currently at Defence College of Management and Technology, Shrivenham, Oxfordshire, South East England, Britain.

More images here (http://preservedtanks.com/Profile.aspx?UniqueId=298)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Rickshaw on May 10, 2015, 09:10:21 AM
That's pretty cool!  8) Which museum is that?

That glacis armour looks decidedly underwhelming.  :icon_surprised:

The intention was, on the Leopard 1 and the AMX-30 for speed to be the vehicles' armour.   The reasoning being that if a war broke out in Europe, it wouldn't be long before nukes were used by either side and armour wouldn't protect you.  However, speed to manoeuvre could, as you could move around the heavier armoured, slower Warsaw Pact armoured formations quicker.   Manoeuvrability was emphasised over protection and firepower in the triad of armoured design philosophy. 
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Gingie on May 11, 2015, 03:31:33 AM
Leopard 1 Roland by Kevin Williams (scratchbuilt turret +)!
 :icon_alabanza:
(http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o734/kwil9999/IMG_4747_zpsovxm1upu.jpg)

More here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/169232/thread/1417315511/Leopard+1+Roland+what-if (http://www.network54.com/Forum/169232/thread/1417315511/Leopard+1+Roland+what-if)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Volkodav on May 11, 2015, 07:38:31 PM
I believe there was actually a prototype Leopard 1 SPG with the French GCT turret.  Fairly sure the is a photo in one of my books, just need to remember which one and hope its not one that's still in a packing box.


This one:

([url]http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k337/Knight_of_Zero/193093_original.jpg~original[/url])
([url]http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k337/Knight_of_Zero/193389_original.jpg~original[/url])

This was developed as a private venture by Krauss-Maffei and Giat but found no buyers.  Would be interesting to do an operational version.


Yes exactly, if memory serves me a left over from the original joint Franco German project that was to have selected either the AMX30 or the Leopard, resulted in identical turret ring diameters and as I recall identical interfaces, permitting any turrets developed for a standard AMX30 to be fitted to a Leo and visa versa.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on August 14, 2015, 02:57:04 AM
Do you think we over did the camouflage?

(http://historicalsocietyofgermanmilitaryhistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/1973793_870060779725182_1018479147057005708_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Marderman on September 07, 2015, 07:39:19 PM
The Leo/Roland and the Leo/AMX interesting projects. These was built from me a long years ago.
Model built in 1990:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Studio-/100_7672.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Studio-/100_7672.jpg.html)

Model built in 1993:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Roland/100_7747.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Roland/100_7747.jpg.html)

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Roland/100_7751.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Roland/100_7751.jpg.html)

And these no "Leopard". It is called "Vickers MK7" Thes are german-british testvehicles in 1986-88.
MK7/1, model built in 1995:
(http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv45/ModellbaufreundeBorgentreich/100_2871.jpg) (http://s668.photobucket.com/user/ModellbaufreundeBorgentreich/media/100_2871.jpg.html)

(http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv45/ModellbaufreundeBorgentreich/100_2870.jpg) (http://s668.photobucket.com/user/ModellbaufreundeBorgentreich/media/100_2870.jpg.html)

MK7/2, model built in 2007:
(http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv45/ModellbaufreundeBorgentreich/100_2861.jpg) (http://s668.photobucket.com/user/ModellbaufreundeBorgentreich/media/100_2861.jpg.html)

(http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv45/ModellbaufreundeBorgentreich/100_2863.jpg) (http://s668.photobucket.com/user/ModellbaufreundeBorgentreich/media/100_2863.jpg.html)

And the "US-Leopard 2", the AV testet in the USA:
model built in 1996:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Studio-/100_7632.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Studio-/100_7632.jpg.html)

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Studio-/100_7622text.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Studio-/100_7622text.jpg.html)

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Studio-/100_7626.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Studio-/100_7626.jpg.html)
Greetings, Didi
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Volkodav on September 07, 2015, 08:58:23 PM
The AV stood for Austere Version if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 09, 2015, 03:44:23 AM
Nice work.  What's the Vickers MK7 based upon or is it 100% scratch built?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Marderman on September 09, 2015, 04:05:13 AM
Yes, Volkodav, it is the austere version.
GTX_Admin, the Leopard 2 chassis and parts from the Challenger-turret.
here the Mk7/1:
(http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv45/ModellbaufreundeBorgentreich/100_7832.jpg) (http://s668.photobucket.com/user/ModellbaufreundeBorgentreich/media/100_7832.jpg.html)

and here the MK7/2: Turret-parts from Trumpeters Challenger 2
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/RC005.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/RC005.jpg.html)

I do it RC. Based on Tamiyas 1:35 Leopard 2A5.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/RC001.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/RC001.jpg.html)

Didi
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 09, 2015, 04:40:14 AM
Wow!  Its RC as well?!  Wow! :)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Marderman on September 09, 2015, 05:53:40 PM
The first time, I do a link to my video film. I hope, it will goes.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Modellbau/th_RC%20010_zps7t6gi3qh.mp4) (http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Modellbau/RC%20010_zps7t6gi3qh.mp4)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Volkodav on September 09, 2015, 07:35:11 PM
Cool, I've got a book somewhere with both the Vickers Mk7 and VMF Mk5 Light Tank (a simpler cheaper version of the XM-8 with a Vickers three man turret).  Love both Vickers concepts and its a shame neither got any orders, but this being a Whiff site what happened in the real world doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Marderman on September 09, 2015, 11:39:57 PM
In an old german "Soldat und Technik" that time I had read, that the Mk7/1 was testet in Egypt.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Gingie on October 07, 2015, 06:47:50 AM
Kevin Williams is at it again with a promising Leopard Palletized transporter:

(http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o734/kwil9999/IMG_4802_zpsl70jfzza.jpg)

(http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o734/kwil9999/IMG_4801_zpsn78czdgc.jpg)

Thread here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/169232/message/1443905025/Leopard+1+PLS+what-if (http://www.network54.com/Forum/169232/message/1443905025/Leopard+1+PLS+what-if)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Gingie on October 09, 2015, 10:40:41 PM
Another update from Kevin... this really makes a strong case for 3D printed parts!

(http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o734/kwil9999/IMG_4805_zpsvicqdin6.jpg)

(http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o734/kwil9999/IMG_4808_zpsaafl4g1g.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: M.A.D on October 11, 2015, 01:26:38 PM
Kevin Williams is at it again with a promising Leopard Palletized transporter:

([url]http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o734/kwil9999/IMG_4802_zpsl70jfzza.jpg[/url])

([url]http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o734/kwil9999/IMG_4801_zpsn78czdgc.jpg[/url])

Thread here:
[url]http://www.network54.com/Forum/169232/message/1443905025/Leopard+1+PLS+what-if[/url] ([url]http://www.network54.com/Forum/169232/message/1443905025/Leopard+1+PLS+what-if[/url])


Sorry Gingie is this like a 'Demountable Rack Offload and Pickup System' (DROPS)?

M.A.D
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Marderman on October 12, 2015, 12:28:51 AM
Hello, the indonesian TNI have Leopard 2 since september 2013.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Marder/103_0036_zpsi5roicyi.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Marder/103_0036_zpsi5roicyi.jpg.html)
More photos in "physical models"
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on November 08, 2015, 04:56:25 AM
Interesting image I just stumbled across:

(http://www.casr.ca/mp-army-combat-systems-hiav-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: dy031101 on November 08, 2015, 10:32:43 AM
When I was browsing online for Leopard 2 pictures, I noticed that most Leopard 2 tanks have forward side skirts being thicker than the rest:

(Illustration courtesy of Armored Warfare by Obsidian Entertainment.)

(http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab22/dy031101/sideSkirtTemplate1.jpg~original)

What are those armour blocks intended to protect?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Volkodav on November 10, 2015, 11:17:23 PM
Inspired by Weavers suggestion of Germany buying Chieftain as a heavy tank, how about the UK buying Leopards, in particular Leopard I, as a medium tank.

Back story, While fine for BAOR exercises in Norway, experience in the Falklands and later in the former Yugoslavia, demonstrates the need for a lighter, more mobile tank than Chieftain or Challenger to support Marine, Airborne / Airmobile and light infantry forces, a new medium tank.  There is a precedent for this, I have read that the Germans placed Leo 2s in reserve while retaining Leo 1s in some units due to their lower weights based on experience in the Balkans.

It could be that the desired vehicle is actually the M-8 or the Vickers Mk5 derivative, but the Leopards are readily available and much cheaper.

Weaver prompted this latest but the idea is much older, an idea I had years ago, involving the re-roling of the Household Cavalry Regiments to better support and supply significantly more combat power to amphibious and rapid deployments.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Logan Hartke on November 11, 2015, 12:06:39 AM
It's not as far-fetched as it might seem, either, as the UK did acquire at least one Leo 1 variant, and both Australia and Canada went with the Leo 1, too, so it's not too hard to see it in British configuration for me.

Cheers,

Logan
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Weaver on November 11, 2015, 08:12:06 AM
Well the exchange I had in mind was the Chieftain for Germany in exchange for the Marder for the UK, but this works too. I've often thought it interesting that although the concept of heavy and medium tanks was supposed to be dead and replaced by the universal MBT, the way things developed actually made a heavy/medium split still perfectly doable.

Possible British-style mods to Leo I:

British-style 'soft' barrel jacket

Cupola with remote GPMG for commander, plain hatch for loader

Big IR searchlight on side of turret instead of Leo's small barrel-mounted one

Wedge-shaped ribbed storage boxes on sides of hull ahead of louvres

UK/US style smoke dischargers

The big question would be would the British Army keep the stereo rangefinder, which they wern't a fan of?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Volkodav on November 11, 2015, 11:07:03 PM
I was thinking an 80s or 90s introduction as expeditionary warfare came back on the radar, specifically the need to provide armoured support in environments where roads, bridges and terrain appeared unsuitable for the Chieftain / Challenger sized vehicles (I say appeared because these assumptions have often been disproved).  One thing that is true though is the Leopard 1 is smaller and lighter as well as easier to transport than the Chieftain.

I am thinking either a single regiment supporting the UKs light, marine and airborne infantry on the same sort of scale as the US independent tank battalions, i.e. one tank battalion/regiment per nine battalion infantry division, or three medium weight Armoured Cavalry Regiment similar to the type being formed for the Australian army at the moment (google Beersheba Brigade).  In the later case instead of one medium tank regiment supporting a division there would be three ACRs, each supporting a three battalion brigade, with each ACR having one medium tank squadron, one cavalry squadron and an APC/AIFV Squadron (which would let you have your Marders as well).

Which units to use?  I was thinking Household Cavalry for the single regiment or the separate Life Guards, Royal Horse Guards and (dis amalgamated) Royal Dragoons for the ACRs.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on November 12, 2015, 02:28:10 AM
Interesting Leo 1 and Chieftain side-by-side comparison:

(http://i.imgur.com/85fwSZT.jpg)


Leopard 1:
Weight   42.2 tonnes (increased on later models from original 40.0 tonnes)
Length   9.54/8.29 m (gun forward/rearward)
Width   3.37 m
Height   2.39/2.70 m (turret roof/absolute)
Chieftain:
Weight   55 long tons (62 short tons; 56 t)
Length   35 ft 4 in (10.77 m) – gun forward
7.5 m (24 ft 7 in) – hull
Width   12 ft 0 in (3.66 m)
Height   2.9 m (9 ft 6 in)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Gingie on November 13, 2015, 01:58:21 AM
More from Kevin:
(http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o734/kwil9999/IMG_4850_zpsy7o1ni1q.jpg)
(http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o734/kwil9999/IMG_4857_zpsysi6mb0y.jpg)
(http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o734/kwil9999/IMG_4855_zpsivjnydcd.jpg)
(http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o734/kwil9999/IMG_4859_zpsgexpdzay.jpg)

 :-*
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: arkon on November 13, 2015, 08:27:31 AM
I have a hard enough time building parts that don't move, is he building it so it all works? If so, my hat is off to this gentleman.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: ysi_maniac on January 19, 2016, 01:55:28 AM
I love Leopard-1

(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/drawTanks/Leo-1variants.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/drawTanks/Leo-1variants.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Volkodav on January 19, 2016, 08:48:35 PM
In Australia the Leopard has been replaced by the Abrams and we are discovering / have discovered, that a lot of gear that was perfectly fine with the Leopard, or even the preceding Centurion is not compatible with the weight on the M-1A1 SEP.  This includes landing craft bridging equipment, barges etc.

The same would have been true with the Chieftain but earlier, potentially denying some expeditionary forces not just armour support but direct fire support as well.  This is the niche the Leopard could have fitted.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 26, 2016, 07:44:57 AM
Some interesting Leo AS.1 images etc here (http://anzacsteel.hobbyvista.com/Armoured%20Vehicles/leopardph_4.htm) such as these:

(http://anzacsteel.hobbyvista.com/Armoured%20Vehicles/Leo406.jpg)
(http://anzacsteel.hobbyvista.com/Armoured%20Vehicles/Leo413.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: tahsin on June 29, 2016, 07:13:06 PM
When I was browsing online for Leopard 2 pictures, I noticed that most Leopard 2 tanks have forward side skirts being thicker than the rest:

(Illustration courtesy of Armored Warfare by Obsidian Entertainment.)

([url]http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab22/dy031101/sideSkirtTemplate1.jpg~original[/url])

What are those armour blocks intended to protect?

Thanks in advance.


Increasing the thickness against incoming shots from 11 to 2 o'clocks as you climb the hilltop to fire?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: apophenia on June 30, 2016, 11:24:55 AM
What are those armour blocks intended to protect?

The four armour blocks act as added protection for the hull ammunition racks.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Zaskar24 on July 21, 2016, 05:55:18 AM
http://www.janes.com/article/60318/rheinmetall-to-unveil-130mm-smoothbore-tank-gun-at-eurosatory (http://www.janes.com/article/60318/rheinmetall-to-unveil-130mm-smoothbore-tank-gun-at-eurosatory)

Has anyone seen this yet. After dropping the 140mm it looks like the introduction of the T-14 Armata by Russia has at least the Germans worried.  For now the image of the gun mounted is on an Evolution series Leopard 2.

Found this over on Secret Projects.  http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,26693.0.html (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,26693.0.html)


Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 22, 2016, 02:38:36 AM
Have been watching this for a while.  It will be interesting to see if the new 130mm gun is adopted by anyone.  Either way, it is likely to require an autoloader given the increased size of the ammunition:

(http://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/P1930431.jpg)

Mind you, even if they don't some 1/35 versions of either this (or the 140mm one) would go down nicely...
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 22, 2016, 02:49:51 AM
It would be cool if one could get a conversion kit to allow one to model the Rheinmetall MBT Technologieträger:

(http://i.auto-bild.de/ir_img/1/2/9/2/4/3/5/Das-ist-Deutschlands-Panzer-Zukunft-1200x800-6fb12226d7380863.jpg)

More photos/details here (http://below-the-turret-ring.blogspot.com.au/2015/08/rheinmetall-mbt-technologietrager.html).
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Zaskar24 on July 22, 2016, 07:46:45 AM
Agreed with needing an autoloader to handle the new shell due to it's size. If the U.S. went with it they could probably dust off the plans for the M1 autoloader. It looks like the turret rear is the same shape as a standard M1 turret.

Would also love to get 1/35 conversions for the 140mm and  the 130mm versions. I would be happy with a metal barrel.

Would also love to see a kit of the Evolution Leopard or that beautiful looking behemoth you posted above.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 24, 2016, 08:14:25 AM
Jagdleopard elevating platform for HOT Anti Tank Missiles:

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8538/8639595035_8a3a06cacd_b.jpg)(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8532/8640696986_b942c19c24_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Marderman on September 27, 2016, 04:11:26 AM
I have build it in 1993.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Leopard%201%20MBT/100_7656text_zpsaijeoact.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Leopard%201%20MBT/100_7656text_zpsaijeoact.jpg.html)

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Leopard%201%20MBT/113_08335804_zpsemfpgk0w.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Leopard%201%20MBT/113_08335804_zpsemfpgk0w.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 27, 2016, 04:55:41 AM
Nice work.  Do you have any in-progress build photos?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Marderman on September 30, 2016, 04:11:32 AM
Yes, I have some.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Leopard%201%20MBT/100_7667_zpsspdsrsko.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Leopard%201%20MBT/100_7667_zpsspdsrsko.jpg.html)

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Leopard%201%20MBT/100_7666_zps0tbomgsl.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Leopard%201%20MBT/100_7666_zps0tbomgsl.jpg.html)

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Leopard%201%20MBT/100_7665_zpsjqbw9scd.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Leopard%201%20MBT/100_7665_zpsjqbw9scd.jpg.html)

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Leopard%201%20MBT/100_7668_zps62ngw7wa.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Leopard%201%20MBT/100_7668_zps62ngw7wa.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 30, 2016, 05:44:35 AM
Thank you
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 12, 2016, 12:14:30 PM
Random idea:

Leopard 1 retrograded to have either 7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70 gun (from Panther tank) or  8.8 cm KwK 43 L/71 gun (from Tiger II tank).
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Weaver on October 12, 2016, 12:48:26 PM
Random idea:

Leopard 1 retrograded to have either 7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70 gun (from Panther tank) or  8.8 cm KwK 43 L/71 gun (from Tiger II tank).

Or how about a British 20pdr or a US 90mm with the T-shaped muzzle brake? Say the Leo project was earlier or the L7 was later and the initial version of the Leo had to have either the Centurion gun or the M-47 one.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 12, 2016, 01:57:36 PM
Funny you should say that, but I recall one of the Leopard 1 precursors having a 90mm gun (though of German origin).

There was also this prototype that had a different muzzle brake:

(http://i44.tinypic.com/dqqb1h.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 13, 2016, 03:13:30 AM
Close up of proposed Leopard 1A6 turret:

(http://www.panzer-modell.de/specials/ontour/unterluess/31g.jpg)
(http://www.panzer-modell.de/specials/ontour/unterluess/32g.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Rickshaw on October 22, 2016, 04:02:03 PM
(http://www.panzerpower.de/bilder/leo1/entwicklung/proto_b2.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cwdAusT7O0Y/UR0urEZOn7I/AAAAAAAAAMI/068YoQvB4bI/s1600/0_48b31_9d65ba6d_L.jpg)
Early Leopard 1 prototypes
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: apophenia on October 23, 2016, 04:16:33 AM
Rickshaw: Photo 2 is Hanomag's 24 tonne RU 251 prototype, aka Spähpanzer Kette. That makes this light tank more closely related to the Kanonejagdpanzer (and, ultimately, Marder ... if I understand correctly) than to the Leopard.

Part of a planned leichten Panzerfamilie, Spähpanzer Kette was meant to replace the Bundeswehr's M41s (in the recce role). Power was a 500 hp Daimler, armament a 90mm BK in a Rheinmetall-Borsig turret. Production vehicles were to have more in common with the Leopard 1 hull. But, in the end, the Bundeswehr dumped the Spähpanzer Kette in favour of a combo of Leo 1s and the 8x8 Spähpanzer Luchs.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6947.0 (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6947.0)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 23, 2016, 06:27:16 AM
(http://media.modellbau-koenig.de/pictures/products/tg4-16b.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Volkodav on October 23, 2016, 07:37:47 PM
Different, I wonder what happened to the 140mm?  I imagine the 130mm offers improved performance to any of the 120mm while having a lower platform impact than the 140mm.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 25, 2016, 06:06:07 PM
Random idea:  Gepard given the ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" treatment and given 4 35mm cannon in central mount with radar moved to rear of turret.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 30, 2016, 10:45:12 AM
Another image showing a 130mmm main gun:

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-K0Cmn8puklw/V3NVFTd3nxI/AAAAAAABKtQ/p8wCsvJ34Vw8XqAeKxNiYynPgBww9-WsgCLcB/s1600/futureEurotank.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 21, 2016, 03:03:23 AM
JagdLeo1:

([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/jagdleopard-1-a4.gif[/url])


Above is what I drew ages ago.  Those below may (or may not) be real world equivalents:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/scan988_zpsruifdpbn.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/jUQvkgd_zpszcv1skyi.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Marderman on December 22, 2016, 05:38:24 PM
See in the internet: turkish Leo 2 in sandcolour against IS:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Original-fotos/Leo%202%20Tuumlrkei-Syrien%202_zpsvibbligh.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Original-fotos/Leo%202%20Tuumlrkei-Syrien%202_zpsvibbligh.jpg.html)

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Original-fotos/Leo%202%20Tuumlrkei-Syrien_zpswrw91wc4.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Original-fotos/Leo%202%20Tuumlrkei-Syrien_zpswrw91wc4.jpg.html)

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Original-fotos/Leo%202%20Tuumlrkei-Syrien%203_zpszb6f0ds8.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Original-fotos/Leo%202%20Tuumlrkei-Syrien%203_zpszb6f0ds8.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Rickshaw on December 23, 2016, 09:19:01 PM
Leopard 2s in Syria (http://below-the-turret-ring.blogspot.com.au/2016/12/leopard-2-in-syria.html)

Chile to upgrade Leopard 2s (http://below-the-turret-ring.blogspot.com.au/2016/11/chile-to-upgrade-leopard-2-tanks.html)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Volkodav on December 24, 2016, 07:16:51 PM
Packing / unpacking and repacking for the move and I found an almost complete Leo I.......mmmm......
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 07, 2017, 04:31:38 AM
I was just reading that the British Army have been offered 2nd hand Leo2s as a replacement for the Challenger 2 though the offer has been declined.  Without going into the pros/cons of this particular offer, it does raise the question of perhaps NATO launching a new 'Euro-tank'/'NATO standard tank' in the '80s.  This could easily have seen the Leo 2 coming out as the standard tank across all NATO members including the UK and USA.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Volkodav on January 07, 2017, 12:04:17 PM
Just dug my Hobby Boss Leo 2E out of a saturated and disintegrating removal box, might be an excuse to make a start on it once it dries out.  Important lesson learned though, when you have your stash on shelves and in cabinets for safe storage, don't trust your step daughter to pack them or the kits will be jammed into removal box's until they bowing at the sides and the kits boxes are crushed, then at the new house the box's will be left on the ground next to a leaking down pipe during tropical storms.  Did better than my tool boxes containing my old tool making stuff, they were left open in the rain to fill up with water, apparently they needed some sockets to replace a flat tyre, couldn't find what they were looking for and forget to tidy up the stuff they got out when they finished.  Nothing important, just digital verniers, micrometers, precision ground parallels and angle plates, levelling jacks, etc. much of which I made as an apprentice and kept in pristine condition for over 25 years.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Volkodav on January 07, 2017, 12:10:50 PM
Something I haven't found yet is the second of my 1/35 Leo 1s, this one I did a cut and shut on to make a Leo Light tank.  My thinking was that after adopting the Leo AS1 the Australian army decided they needed a smaller lighter light tank for reconnaissance and fire support within the Cavalry Regiments instead of the M-113 based FSV and MRV with Saladin and Scorpion Turrets respectively.  The result was a shortened Leo1 hull with a physically smaller engine (maybe a V6, V8 or even a GT) and a smaller turret with a HV 60 or 76mm auto loading gun.  Its incomplete but I am sure it is somewhere, should find it soon with the rate we are unpacking.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: ChernayaAkula on April 10, 2017, 12:57:51 AM
Could make for a helluva effective camo in sub-Saharan Africa!  :icon_surprised:

(https://scontent.ftxl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17757178_1456062917777237_4926682976910002125_n.jpg?oh=fcba894761bdd62b70f63b40a05a5a93&oe=59953523)

(https://scontent-ber1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17861442_1456062907777238_4274060863484082518_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=0be424&_nc_oc=AQnhslTLS5oe_rFkvCgrt9tME7Ara2YDZApnmofH09zbtA9IPs5FLkLKHZmlvpajOKQ&_nc_ht=scontent-ber1-1.xx&oh=d7fe1e91839d89850ab378cf8745ff87&oe=5ED7D7E4)

(https://scontent.ftxl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17861442_1456062907777238_4274060863484082518_n.jpg?oh=e668e5c87cfd9f201fa9ad7da8076411&oe=5958991C)

From this album on Facebook: LINK! (https://www.facebook.com/seungyong.ryu/posts/1456063087777220)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Rickshaw on April 10, 2017, 08:34:05 AM
Nice but "fussy".  Need some careful masking to make it look good in real life, let alone 1/35 scale.  Most "fussy" cam is created by some officer who never has to paint it.  Which is why most WOs and Sergeants "simplify" things, preferring nice, broad, plain colours...
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Gingie on April 11, 2017, 05:10:18 AM
From Panzer 46 FB page (Builder unknown)

Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 11, 2017, 05:50:51 PM
 :)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Old Wombat on April 11, 2017, 06:05:46 PM
Ooh, they look good! 8)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Volkodav on April 11, 2017, 06:21:01 PM
That is soooooo cool!

Who needs an S Tank now, I think my RAR Armoured Support Company, TD platoon may get six to eight of those instead of the S Tanks I had planned.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Claymore on April 12, 2017, 06:29:15 AM
Gulp... Very, very nice indeed.  8)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: ysi_maniac on July 08, 2017, 11:00:21 AM
More JagdLeopards, evolved in post WWII era from JagdPhanther

(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/drawTanks/JagdLeopard.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/drawTanks/JagdLeopard.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: ChernayaAkula on July 10, 2017, 02:41:28 AM
Good work!  8)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 02, 2017, 04:40:49 AM
From Panzer 46 FB page (Builder unknown)

Another:

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cAz8LvX2oxM/WiD2Nk0srQI/AAAAAAABf00/3er9CXDjjAkCCeyZUO4aAq8knUIq42EWgCLcBGAs/s1600/17834373_1904280799803380_7813345289755114264_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 29, 2017, 04:11:05 AM
More on the RS90 MLRS:

(http://u0v052dm9wl3gxo0y3lx0u44wz.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/RS-80-Rocket-System.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/paul1/rs80_003jpg_thumb_zps0fb98daf.png)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Rickshaw on December 29, 2017, 08:58:55 AM
Never quite understood why you would want to mount an MLRS on a tank chassis, particularly when you have a road network as extensive and as well paved as Germany's to put your truck mounted chassis on.   Appears even the Germans eventually understood that.   Wasn't there also an attempt to put the rocket launcher turret on a Chieftain chassis?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 30, 2017, 02:22:38 AM
Never quite understood why you would want to mount an MLRS on a tank chassis, particularly when you have a road network as extensive and as well paved as Germany's to put your truck mounted chassis on.   

Maybe because they weren't always planning on fighting in Germany or wanted more flexibility?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Rickshaw on December 30, 2017, 08:52:34 AM
Never quite understood why you would want to mount an MLRS on a tank chassis, particularly when you have a road network as extensive and as well paved as Germany's to put your truck mounted chassis on.   

Maybe because they weren't always planning on fighting in Germany or wanted more flexibility?

Most of Europe's road network, East as well as West was pretty well paved by the mid-1960s.  I cannot imagine where they were thinking of going, except perhaps to Moscow (again) where they'd need a tank chassis.  Personally, I'd have mounted it on an M548 chassis if I wanted a fully-tracked vehicle to carry it.  Tank chassis tend to be over-heavy, inefficiently powered and well, a tad cramped for use as a MLRS.   What they wanted was a rocket which was shorter and fatter, not long and thin.   Rather like the US MLRS became...
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 31, 2017, 02:20:03 AM
Most of Europe's road network, East as well as West was pretty well paved by the mid-1960s.  I cannot imagine where they were thinking of going, except perhaps to Moscow (again) where they'd need a tank chassis. 

By that argument, you would also argue that they did not need tracked vehicles at all...
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: kitnut617 on December 31, 2017, 02:43:21 AM
Most of Europe's road network, East as well as West was pretty well paved by the mid-1960s.  I cannot imagine where they were thinking of going, except perhaps to Moscow (again) where they'd need a tank chassis. 

By that argument, you would also argue that they did not need tracked vehicles at all...

Any paved road system can quickly be put out of action, so you need the capability to go 'off-road'
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: SebastianP on April 07, 2018, 11:19:17 AM
Found on my workbench under a mountain of old sprues:

Two Stridsvagn 122 kits, two Leopard 2A6 kits, and a Leopard 2A5/A5NL kit, all in 1/72, all of them started.

Problem: one of the lower hulls is a total loss, all the suspension arms are broken off an half are missing.

Not sure exactly what tank configurations I'm going to build (could do an Strv 122 with the L55 barrel, could do a Leopard 2A6NL, not sure what else), but either way it looks like I'll have a complete turret left over.

Maybe use it as a coastal defense piece?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 08, 2018, 03:02:07 AM
it looks like I'll have a complete turret left over.

Maybe use it as a coastal defense piece?

Or put it on another hull - maybe a wheeled platform like a LAV or Boxer?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: SebastianP on April 08, 2018, 06:31:17 AM
Or put it on another hull - maybe a wheeled platform like a LAV or Boxer?

Nice idea, but it's way out of my comfort zone when it comes to required skills, and I don't have any donor kits. Unless I want to scale-o-rama the turret onto an 1/35 vehicle, which I have no plans to do.

Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Zaskar24 on April 11, 2018, 04:58:29 AM
Or put it on another hull - maybe a wheeled platform like a LAV or Boxer?

Nice idea, but it's way out of my comfort zone when it comes to required skills, and I don't have any donor kits. Unless I want to scale-o-rama the turret onto an 1/35 vehicle, which I have no plans to do.

If you did scale-o-rama the turret that would make the 120 approximately a 60mm gun which could be the current version of the one the Israeli's had in the 70s.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Marderman on June 18, 2018, 03:20:35 PM
Hello,
Eurosatory 2018, Leopard 2A7 and Leclerc-turret. Cooperation from Nexter and KMW (KNDS). Euro Main Battle Tank (EMBT) demonstrator.
Leoclerc ;) or LeLeo ;) .

here is a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPu9UR8L6R0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPu9UR8L6R0)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: dy031101 on June 21, 2018, 12:45:35 PM
Fan artist taking the T-72 turret idea somewhat further:
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Marderman on June 22, 2018, 04:22:29 AM
Hey dy031101
I do it.

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Leopard%201%20MBT/100_7538c_zpsexsq2wb8.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Leopard%201%20MBT/100_7538c_zpsexsq2wb8.jpg.html)

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/didiberlage/Leopard%201%20MBT/100_7542text_zpsgfzmdlcs.jpg) (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/didiberlage/media/Leopard%201%20MBT/100_7542text_zpsgfzmdlcs.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: dy031101 on June 22, 2018, 08:34:41 AM
Hey dy031101
I do it.

I'm thinking of how it looks like after an armour upgrade, preferably in either an all-ERA (explosive reactive armours) or an all-composite applique setup  ;)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 23, 2018, 02:20:09 AM
I've actually got a plan to do an upgraded Leo 1 with ERA.  This would be a pretty much standard Leo 1 A5 with one of the current operators, possibly Greece.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: ChernayaAkula on June 24, 2018, 09:23:17 AM
Leclerc turret on Leo 2 hull is a definite improvement in the looks department.  :-*

T-72 turret on Leo 1 hull -  not so much!  :-X
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on June 24, 2018, 10:56:45 AM
Quote
T-72 turret on Leo 1 hull -  not so much!


Maybe swap the gun out on the Leopard for the gun from the T-72?  Yeah, I know there is still the loading system and internal layout for the commander and gunner to consider but that is all on the inside and out of sight.  :)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Marderman on August 07, 2018, 09:02:34 PM
EMBT Demonstrator
Now I works:
(https://up.picr.de/33444686gh.jpg)

(https://up.picr.de/33444684ju.jpg)

(https://up.picr.de/33504906dq.jpg)

(https://up.picr.de/33504871na.jpg)

(https://up.picr.de/33504867hw.jpg)

(https://up.picr.de/33504865lr.jpg)

Didi, germany, the land of Leoparden ;)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Old Wombat on August 07, 2018, 11:48:17 PM
 :smiley: :smiley:
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: apophenia on August 08, 2018, 04:46:11 AM
Great start, Didi! Are you using the Tamiya Leclerc 2 turret?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Marderman on August 11, 2018, 03:27:38 PM
Yes, I use Tamiya´s Leclerc. The Heller Kit was too inaccurate.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: ysi_maniac on August 11, 2018, 08:41:57 PM
Love this project. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Rickshaw on October 20, 2018, 04:48:05 PM
Sabiex HIFV

Experimental heavy infantry fighting vehicle/armored personnel carrier.   Developed between 2005 and 2010, as a joint venture between the UAE and Belgian firm of Sabiex. The project involved the reversing of the vehicle with the engine at the front and the former driver’s space and area under the turret repurposed for troops. Vehicle fitted with BMP-3 turret. One vehicle made.

Built using an OF40 MBT hull, which in turn was actually a Leopard I, license produced in Italy, designed for use in the tropics, the Sabiex was an interesting experiment that was not taken up.

(http://btvt.info/5library/hapc.files/image032.jpg)

(https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2016-01/1453297848_bufer-obmena01.jpg)

(https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2016-01/1453297874_1.jpg)

(https://www.forte.jor.br/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/hivf1.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Rickshaw on October 20, 2018, 04:54:00 PM
Leone MBT

The Carro da Combattimento Lion was developed at a time when the serial production of the Leopard main battle tank was still underway in Italy and West Germany. The need for such a vehicle was born from the strong desire from both Italian and West Germany industry to be able to offer a tank for foreign export, specifically for the Middle-East and third-world markets.

OTO Melara had already been heavily involved in the serial production of the American designed M60A1 main battle tank (MBT) and had also worked on various upgrades to the M47 Patton. Those M47 were to remain in service in Italy until production of Leopard was completed and fully in service with the Italian army. The first information about this new project came out in 1976. The project started in 1975 as a consortium was formed from Krauss-Maffei, Blohm and Voss, Diehl, Jung-Porsche, MaK, Luther-Werke, OTO Melara, Fiat, and Lancia with the single purpose to construct a cost-effective tank for export. Namely, a cost-effective version of the Leopard.

(https://i.imgur.com/OIsigYk.jpg)
Artwork advertising the Lion Main Battle Tank (It is a retouched image of a Leopard 1). Photo: Caiti
A Consortium is Formed

In Italy, this project was initially known as the ‘Leopardino’ (“little leopard”) and then as the ‘Leone’ (Lion). The split for manufacturing would be 50-50, with the hull, engine, transmission, and running gear made in Germany and the turret, armament, and electrical equipment by the Italians. Assembly of all of these components was to take place at the OTO-Melara plant at La Spezia with the goal of having a functional prototype by March 1977 and the goal of serial production pending orders for 1978 and beyond. It is unusual that the turret, bearing a striking similarity to the new Leopard 1A3 turret from Germany would be made in Italy just a few years after the development of it had started, in around 1973.

Protection

The hull was essentially that of the Leopard 1 but it was tropicalized, optimised for use in hot, dry, dusty conditions with improved ventilation and filtration systems. With improved cooling, the tank could operate in temperatures of up to 50 degrees Celsius. Like the Leopard 1, the hull was made from welded rolled homogenous steel armor plate. The distinctive angular rippled side skirts from the Leopard 1 were retained for the Lion.

The turret, like that of the Leopard 1A3, was also made from welded rolled homogenous steel armor and featured spaced armor across the front arc for additional protection. The only major difference in the turret was the traverse system. The Leopard was using the Cadillac-Gage electro-hydraulic system but the Lion was instead to use a new, cheaper, and less complicated Swiss system

(https://i.imgur.com/5z3xW1N.jpg)
Fiat Lion still in the factory, circa 1975-77. Photo: Pignato

Armament

The Lion was fitted with a 105mm rifled main gun made by OTO-Melara which would have been capable of firing NATO standardized 105mm ammunition. Based on the fact the sights of the OF 40 MK.1 were only graduated for Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot (APDS), High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT), and High Explosive Squash Head (HESH) and that the OF 40 was heavily based on the Lion it is likely that only APDS, HEAT, and HESH were to be the primary ammunition types. The number of main gun rounds carried is not known but if compared to the OF 40 Mk.1 which followed this design closely it is likely to be 19 rounds in the turret and 42 rounds in the front left of the hull next to the driver. A coaxial machine gun was fitted, likely 7.62mm caliber and a mounting point on the roof for an additional machine gun for anti-aircraft defense.

Crew

A crew of four consisting of a commander on the right-hand side of the turret and in front of him the gunner. The loader was the third member of the turret crew and was positioned on the left of the gun. The fourth crew member was the driver and sat in the front right-hand side of the hull.
Automotive

The engine and transmission were to be German although Fiat had a contract for the license construction of the German engine for the Leopard. This would be a version of the Motoren und Turbinen Union MB 838 CA M500 multifuel engine which was supercharged to produce 830hp at 2200 rpm producing 19.3 horsepower per tonne.

(https://i.imgur.com/LPIj5ge.jpg)
Fiat Lion during trials. Photo: Pignato

Conclusion

The Lion was a perfectly good MBT at the time and was effectively a license-built Leopard 1A3 made in Italy for the sole purpose of obtaining export orders for both German and Italian industries. Why the sales did not materialize is hard to gauge as the Lion does not appear to have been offered widely for sale. The only interest from an export point of view had come from a delegation from Pakistan who was looking at modernizing their own tank fleet at the time. Machinations over export controls and the price of the tank are most likely either together or combined to have killed it off. No serial production ever took place and only the single prototype was ever completed. The whereabouts of the vehicle are unknown.

The project though reappeared by 1980 as the OF 40 project, a collaboration between OTO-Melara and Fiat. The lack of major German involvement in the OF 40 (the engine for the OF 40 was still a German engine but built under license in Italy) suggests that the reason the Lion project failed was that the Germans pulled their support. With no German support, the Italians would not be able to export the Lion on their own as their Leopard manufacturing license specifically prevented them from doing so. The outcome was a delay of a couple of years for the project to be reworked with a newly designed hull with very similar features but different enough to work around the license restrictions. The OF 40 would still look very similar to both the Lion and the Leopard but this time was an Italian project.

(https://i.imgur.com/ciFuzxr.png)
OF 40 Mk.1 Photo: OTO Melara

Leone Main Battle Tank
Total weight    43 tons
Crew    4 (driver, gunner, commander, loaders)
Propulsion    Motoren und Turbinen Union MB 838 CA M500, 830hp, multifuel
Speed (road)    37 mph (60 km/h)
Armament    105mm rifled main gun
coaxial 7.62mm machine gun
turret roof mounted 7.62mm machine gun
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 21, 2018, 04:11:46 AM
The Sabiex HIFV is interesting.  Be interesting to see a version with a Western turret.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: M.A.D on November 07, 2018, 05:47:40 PM
Would be interested knowing whether the Leone MBT had an air conditioner unit incorporated into it's design, seeing that it's principal AO was meant to target Middle Eastern/African armies???

M.A.D
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: M.A.D on January 14, 2019, 12:39:29 PM
Leo3 shown above:

([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/leopard-3-a4.gif[/url])


Any chance of a Leo1 profile with a Bofors L74 105mm L/62 gun Greg???

M.A.D
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 15, 2019, 04:03:42 AM
Errr...wouldn't that just be a standard Leo 1 with a longer (~1m) barrel?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Rickshaw on January 15, 2019, 07:43:10 AM
Errr...wouldn't that just be a standard Leo 1 with a longer (~1m) barrel?

I'd say, basically yes it would be.  The barrel might be a little thicker, particularly towards the breech end and the fume extractor might be moved slightly further towards the muzzle but it wouldn't be any difference in real shape apart from length.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: M.A.D on January 15, 2019, 03:36:29 PM
Errr...wouldn't that just be a standard Leo 1 with a longer (~1m) barrel?

Yes, you are undoubtedly correct Greg - 'same but different yeah', but affording a higher velocity and longer engagement range!

I have Australian Army MBT retrofitted with the Bofors L74 105mm L/62 gun, in place of Royal Ordinance L7 105mm L52, in my Alternative ADF ORBAT


M.A.D
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 16, 2019, 01:37:52 AM
I will aim to do something this coming weekend.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: M.A.D on January 16, 2019, 08:32:23 AM
I will aim to do something this coming weekend.

Thank's Greg 👍

M.A.D
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Marderman on January 24, 2019, 08:40:33 PM
EMBT is ready for colour.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4918/31918589627_16edfffe41_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QCx7EP)IMG_7107 - Kopie (https://flic.kr/p/QCx7EP) by Diethelm Berlage (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142700047@N02/), auf Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7828/46859983931_4a5cb4a5d9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eoREDr)IMG_7103 - Kopie (https://flic.kr/p/2eoREDr) by Diethelm Berlage (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142700047@N02/), auf Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7877/46859943001_8e80e02ba5_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eoRstK)IMG_7106 (https://flic.kr/p/2eoRstK) by Diethelm Berlage (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142700047@N02/), auf Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4907/46859943111_c39e42af00_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eoRsvD)IMG_7104 (https://flic.kr/p/2eoRsvD) by Diethelm Berlage (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142700047@N02/), auf Flickr

My Way to make the baskets:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7884/46712582461_8326d70f45_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eaQcjM)IMG_6892 (https://flic.kr/p/2eaQcjM) by Diethelm Berlage (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142700047@N02/), auf Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7874/39859277893_dd17db5719_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23JedDc)IMG_7096 (https://flic.kr/p/23JedDc) by Diethelm Berlage (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142700047@N02/), auf Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4817/46772085192_56bb622480_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eg6apW)DSC_8230 (https://flic.kr/p/2eg6apW) by Diethelm Berlage (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142700047@N02/), auf Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4838/32972224118_cd808f3212_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SeDguJ)IMG_7097 (https://flic.kr/p/SeDguJ) by Diethelm Berlage (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142700047@N02/), auf Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4835/32972223728_1c95ce225e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SeDgo1)IMG_7101 (https://flic.kr/p/SeDgo1) by Diethelm Berlage (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142700047@N02/), auf Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4909/46859942871_a1fec0cede_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eoRsrv)IMG_7108 (https://flic.kr/p/2eoRsrv) by Diethelm Berlage (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142700047@N02/), auf Flickr

Greetings,
Didi
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: tankmodeler on January 25, 2019, 01:31:39 AM
EMBT is ready for colour.
You've done a great job with the brass, so this is not a criticism of you at all, but, to me this really illustrates why PE just isn't very good for a lot of the things we buy it for. Those flats section PE basket frames simply do not have the look of the tube baskets of the real thing. That an excellent assembly job doesn't overcome it, is illustrative, at least to me.

Paul

Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Marderman on January 25, 2019, 04:52:08 PM
I had also tried to get tubes, but found nothing suitable. And with a soldering iron I can´t work. This was the best possible solution for me.

Didi
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Rickshaw on February 24, 2019, 07:51:21 AM
This updates the previous posting on the Sabiex HIFV.

Quote
Sabiex HIFV, The ‘Golden Unit’

The United Arab Emirates (UAE) was the only nation that bought the OF-40 (OTO-Melara/Fiat 40 tonne) tank in the 1980’s. They first bought the Mk.1 and were not pleased with the vehicle leading to a further delivery of Mk.2 vehicles and upgrading of the Mk.1 to Mk.2 standard very soon afterwards. Even so, these tanks were not considered mobile enough nor sufficiently well armed by the UAE for their envisaged role in the Middle Eastern battlespace. Ultimately, the UAE was left with an undesired stock of tanks and OF 40 based armored recovery vehicles (ARV’s). The UAE, already operating the much more advanced, better protected, and better armed Leclerc MBT, did not need these older vehicles. Despite rumors of these vehicles being sold to Bosnia-Herzegovina as surplus in the late 1990’s they instead appear to have simply been put into long-term storage in the Gulf nation.

The UAE did, however, operate a number of BMP-3’s which, despite being well armed, were not well armored which led to the search for a suitable replacement for them.


([url]https://i.imgur.com/OfsG0vT.jpg[/url])
OF 40 Mk.2

[url]https://i.imgur.com/SEkVmEt.png[/url] ([url]https://i.imgur.com/SEkVmEt.png[/url])
OF 40 based Sabiex HIFV showing the substantially altered profile of the vehicle.

([url]https://i.imgur.com/wOYrGZb.png[/url])
Hull development at Sabiex’s Belgian plant. The hull has been totally stripped off and a new improved mine resistant floor is being added. Old features like the driver’s floor hatch from the OF 40 are eliminated.

([url]https://i.imgur.com/3w4rjvy.jpg[/url])
New internal side armor being fitted at the Sabiex plant.

([url]https://i.imgur.com/rzUu2k6.png[/url])
Sabiex OF 40 based HIFV leaving the Sabiex plant in Belgium

([url]https://i.imgur.com/9l4vdSH.png[/url])
Sabiex HIFV undergoing trials in Belgium in 2007.

([url]https://i.imgur.com/gIgjD8J.png[/url])
Sabiex HIFV during trials in Belgium in 2007. The position of the driver gives a good idea of the problems of driving a vehicle with such a large frontal blind spot.

([url]https://i.imgur.com/8ejNXuq.png[/url])
Sabiex HIFV during testing in Belgium in 2007.

Development

By 2005, a possible new role for the OF 40 tanks was found. The Belgian firm of Sabiex International, based in Tournai, received a €12 million (euro) (US$15.8 million) contract from the UAE to reuse components of the OF 40 during the development and evaluation phase of their own IFV/APC program. Also involved in this joint-venture were the South Technology Company (STC) along with the Al Badie Group (ABG). STC specialise in engineering, upgrading, addition armoring (including landmine protection) and optronics.

The purpose of this new vehicle was to replace the existing UAE BMP-3’s fleet. The result of the STC/Sabiex/ABG venture was something rather unusual. The goal was the construction of a prototype Heavy Infantry Fighting Vehicle (HIFV) which saw one OF 40 shipped to Sabiex in Belgium, dismantled and refurbished. The new prototype vehicle was partially completed in 2007, sufficiently for trails in Belgium to take place. The development work was done by 2010 and the completed vehicle shipped back to the UAE for desert trials. In the UAE, this vehicle is officially known as ‘the Golden Unit’ as a test prototype and, having passed its desert trials, was to then to proceed to 2nd stage development by STC. This further conversion work based on the Sabiex development was planned to take place at the production facilities of ABG in UAE, but had not started by mid-2010.

([url]https://i.imgur.com/3rNR3HL.png[/url])
Sabiex HIFV prototype hull on display.

([url]https://i.imgur.com/Op8TfUz.png[/url])
OF 40 MTU power pack reconditioned for use in the Sabiex HIFV.

Design

The OF 40 was a conventionally laid out tank with the Fiat-built (licensed) Motoren und Turbinen Union MB 838 CA M500 supercharged, liquid cooled, ten-cylinder multi-fuel diesel engine producing 830hp. The engine, transmission and drive were at the rear. The basic dimensions of the original OF 40 hull were retained as was 7 roadwheel layout with each pair of double wheels mounted onto a swing arm and torsion bar with hydraulic shock absorbers at the front and rear wheel stations.

The Sabiex design saw the reversal of the vehicle layout. The original OF 40 MTU type power pack was retained but now sat at the front of the vehicle allowing the rear to be converted for infantry use. Additionally, the placement of the engine in the front of the vehicle allows for additional protection over the frontal arc. This concept has been tried elsewhere with other tanks such as the Centurion in Jordan being reversed and turned into the Temsah. The only modification done in UAE other than adding the BMP-3 turrets appears to be some work on the exhaust louvers which are reduced from 5 to 3.

([url]https://i.imgur.com/UGfc7jr.png[/url])
Sabiex HIFV fitted with BMP-3 turret in the UAE. The modified exhaust louvres can be seen.

([url]http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Project-Sabiex-HIFV-The-Golden-Unit-edited-e1548163383262-1024x428.png[/url])
Illustration of the Sabiex HIFV, or ‘The Golden Unit’.

([url]https://i.imgur.com/mIyl7Pb.png[/url])
Close up of the drive sprocket from the Sabiex HIFV also shows the thickness of the front lower plate of the vehicle’s armor.

Protection

The vehicle is still made from all-welded steel armor for the hull and Sabiex claim protection is provided to STANAG 4569 level 5 with additional protection against the Russian TM-57 anti-tank mine. Significant additional protection has been added internally with a new inner armored bulkhead providing the whole of the sides with spaced armor. Significant additional protection on the floor of the vehicle is also provided with the elimination of the old driver’s escape hatch in the floor and a new floor put in place. The front lower part of the vehicle appears to be made from an outer layer of ~40 mm thick armor plate, and the nose is assumed to consist of a large section of spaced armor.

([url]https://i.imgur.com/CxRwnzd.png[/url])
Detail of new nose armor which has had the OF 40 headlamps (M60 style) fitted to it. The driver’s digital video camera driving aid can be seen behind it (the small whitish rectangle).

([url]https://i.imgur.com/n9eFHYW.png[/url])
Front view of the Sabiex HIFV hull in its two-tone desert camouflage pattern. This was later changed to an all- sand-yellow scheme in the UAE

Armament

The only information relating to armament is that the prototype was shown fitted with a surplus turret from one of the large number of BMP-3’s operated by the UAE. That BMP-3 turret is fitted with a 100mm 2A70 main gun, a 30mm 2A72 coaxial autocannon, and 7.62mm PKTM coaxial machine gun.

Had the program gone ahead, the Golden Unit would have been one of the most heavily armed and armored HIFV’s in the world.

([url]https://i.imgur.com/JaZTtIp.png[/url])
Drivers station seen from inside, looking towards what used to be the bulkhead between the fighting compartment and the engine bay. A turret is not fitted and the new flooring over the improved mine protected floor can be seen.

([url]https://i.imgur.com/44fEOWb.png[/url])
View of the right-hand side of the driver’s position during construction. The front of the vehicle is to the right and not the direction the fitter is facing or seated.

Crew

The Sabiex design calls for a crew of just two, one driver sat in the front left of the fighting compartment and a commander/gunner. Without the turret fitted, there is a large central space between the back of the driver and the four infantry seats, which could be used for a variety of purposes but, even with the turret fitted, the four rear seats remain. This would allow for up to 5 additional crew members with one assisting in the crewing of the BMP-3 turret. This would bring the maximum complement up to 2+5 with a turret. Access to the vehicle for the driver is via his own hatch but the infantry accesses the vehicle via the large power-operated rear ramp or the rightwards opening single door within the ramp. A rectangular hatch in the side of the right-hand side of the vehicle and other features include small video cameras at the front and back to assist the driver.

([url]https://i.imgur.com/BJbs7aM.png[/url])
View inside the Sabiex HIFV through the rear boor shows the thickness of the substantially improved floor to be mine resistant.

Weight

Operating without a turret the Sabiex HIFV has a mass of 35,000 kg, and 45,000 kg (45 tonnes) with the BMP-3 turret making it heavier than the OF 40 MBT on which it was based.

([url]https://i.imgur.com/Lz0EFtu.png[/url])
Sabiex IFV with BMP-3 turret fitted

([url]https://i.imgur.com/kEfyHcS.png[/url])
Elevated rear view of the Sabiex HIFV showing the considerable bulk of it. Two of the four infantry seats can be seen folded on the left.

Conclusion

The program began in 2005 and trials were conducted in Belgium in 2007. Further trials were conducted in 2010 in the UAE with work on converting the remaining OF 40 vehicle scheduled to commence at the ABG production facilities but never did. Following delivery of 436 Leclerc MBT and variants to the UAE from the French firm of Nexter Systems, all remaining OF 40 vehicles are officially withdrawn from service. Only one OF 40 is known to have been modified and the status of the program appears to be canceled. The status of the test vehicle is not known but is assumed to be in storage in the UAE. The Golden Unit as a prototype was successful and if the remaining stock had been converted, the UAE would have had a very well armed HIFV.

([url]https://i.imgur.com/HfEX0dv.png[/url])
Turretless Sabiex IFV during desert testing circa 2010

Source (http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/modern-uae-belgium-sabiex-hifv-golden-unit/)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 02, 2019, 02:28:23 AM
Stealth Leo 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=455&v=9r0Ssd2jR2U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=455&v=9r0Ssd2jR2U)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Rickshaw on March 02, 2019, 11:00:13 AM
Interesting.  The Glacis reminds me of the WWII Panther and Tiger II series of tanks.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 03, 2019, 01:36:29 AM
And the turret is vaguely reminiscent of the Tiger II.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Frank3k on March 03, 2019, 03:53:13 AM
I was surprised at the overspray on the NATO camo.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: ChernayaAkula on May 26, 2019, 09:13:06 AM
OPFOR Leopard II - posing as a T-72/80/90.

(http://a.modellversium.de/galerie/bilder/0/1/7/4017-3079204.jpg)

Built by Didi/Marderman: LINK (http://www.modellversium.de/galerie/artikel.php?id=4017).
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 23, 2019, 03:12:48 AM
I thought I had already posted this:

(https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/Leo1120_zpsc82819ab.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: apophenia on June 25, 2019, 05:31:12 AM
OPFOR Leopard II - posing as a T-72/80/90.

That's rather good - as an OpFor representation, I mean. Your model is excellent as usual, Didi  :smiley:
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Gingie on June 25, 2019, 10:32:37 PM
Is that a 140mm gun? Wonder what the ammo quantity impact would be?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: tankmodeler on June 26, 2019, 12:32:07 AM
Is that a 140mm gun? Wonder what the ammo quantity impact would be?
I think its the shorter German 120mm in the Leo 1 turret.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 26, 2019, 03:56:27 AM
Its a 120mm proposal - see original info back at Reply #3 to this thread on the first page.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Marderman on December 04, 2019, 04:59:44 PM
Hello,
found at "tank-masters.de".
"On 20 November 2019, Tank-Masters.de had the great opportunity to attend the 40 year anniversary ceremony of the roll out of the first Leopard 2 main battle tank at the KMW facilities in Munich."
(https://up.picr.de/37352870sf.jpg)

(https://up.picr.de/37352869sa.jpg)

camouflage in "night-design" :smiley:

See more:

http://tank-masters.de/?cat=4 (http://tank-masters.de/?cat=4) scroll til 22.November

Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on December 05, 2019, 12:11:37 AM
camouflage in "night-design" :smiley:
That camouflage reminds me of the TRON and TRON: Legacy movie costumes.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 02, 2020, 04:32:02 AM
Based on modified Leopard 1 hull:

Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 11, 2020, 04:41:53 AM
One I was not aware of: 

(https://forum.warthunder.com/uploads/monthly_2020_01/312221942_Semoventeleopardantiaereo40mm.jpg.2c68c1238076607a1fc988374f755bf3.jpg)
(https://forum.warthunder.com/uploads/monthly_2020_01/2040213266_Semoventeleopardantiaereo1.jpg.9b905afc3606b4651d4ee2575cdefe24.jpg)
(https://forum.warthunder.com/uploads/monthly_2020_01/1027148321_Semoventeleopardantiaereo40mm2.jpg.268bc8bd51f4d1dbd096d8fe1e1944fe.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: apophenia on July 11, 2020, 05:44:06 AM
One I was not aware of: 

Nor I ... good find! Apparently a Arsenale di Piacenza Leopard 1A2 mod with Oto Melara-built Bofors da 40/70. :smiley:

Anyone recognize the turret? Was it used elsewhere?
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on July 11, 2020, 06:08:01 AM
One I was not aware of: 
Nor I ... good find! Apparently a Arsenale di Piacenza Leopard 1A2 mod with Oto Melara-built Bofors da 40/70. :smiley:

Anyone recognize the turret? Was it used elsewhere?

With the large ready ammunition rack to the rear of the gun it looks like a standard naval mount with an armor shield added to it. 
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 12, 2020, 01:46:42 AM
Looks to be a standard BOFORS L70 FL:

(http://www.panzerbaer.de/archiv/pix/bw_auh_2283597815_4e61fde1bf_oi.jpg)

In which case, one can get a 1/35 kit from Y-Modelle (http://www.y-modelle.de/bofors-flak-40-mm-l70-fl-p-3843.html):

(http://www.y-modelle.de/images/produktbilder/import-und-arbeitsverzeichnis/20190503093844_Y35-177_01m.jpg)(http://www.y-modelle.de/images/produktbilder/import-und-arbeitsverzeichnis/20190503093950_Y35-177_16m.jpg)

Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on July 12, 2020, 01:53:32 AM
Nice!
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 12, 2020, 04:41:16 AM
I suppose the SP-70 / PanzerHaubitze-155-1 could fit in here given a Leo 1 (and later Leo 2 I believe) hull was proposed to be used:

(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/panzerbar/17086497/927061/927061_original.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: M.A.D on July 12, 2020, 04:29:33 PM
One I was not aware of: 

(https://forum.warthunder.com/uploads/monthly_2020_01/312221942_Semoventeleopardantiaereo40mm.jpg.2c68c1238076607a1fc988374f755bf3.jpg)
(https://forum.warthunder.com/uploads/monthly_2020_01/2040213266_Semoventeleopardantiaereo1.jpg.9b905afc3606b4651d4ee2575cdefe24.jpg)
(https://forum.warthunder.com/uploads/monthly_2020_01/1027148321_Semoventeleopardantiaereo40mm2.jpg.268bc8bd51f4d1dbd096d8fe1e1944fe.jpg)

Looks a lot of an expensive tank chassis for a basic 40mm AAA arrangement! Maybe A Marder chassis I could understand, but a Leo1 chassis 😯

MAD
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Old Wombat on July 12, 2020, 09:36:11 PM
If it was done whilst transitioning to Leo IIs then there'd be Leo I hulls to spare, so no biggie. ;)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 13, 2020, 02:00:28 AM
It was an Italian one and was done, I understand, as a trial.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: apophenia on July 13, 2020, 04:18:35 AM
Thanks for the turret IDs Jeff and Greg  :smiley:

Looks a lot of an expensive tank chassis for a basic 40mm AAA arrangement! Maybe A Marder chassis I could understand, but a Leo1 chassis 😯

MAD: Apparently, this Bofors-on-Leo 1A2 was meant to accompany the Esercito's SIDAM 25 - an SPAAG consisting of four turreted Oerlikon KBAs on a M113 hull. The Italians didn't really have a Marder analogue at the time .
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: M.A.D on July 13, 2020, 09:36:36 AM
Thanks for the turret IDs Jeff and Greg  :smiley:

Looks a lot of an expensive tank chassis for a basic 40mm AAA arrangement! Maybe A Marder chassis I could understand, but a Leo1 chassis 😯

MAD: Apparently, this Bofors-on-Leo 1A2 was meant to accompany the Esercito's SIDAM 25 - an SPAAG consisting of four turreted Oerlikon KBAs on a M113 hull. The Italians didn't really have a Marder analogue at the time .

Thank you for your reply and valid point apophenia. I made this statement with the notion it was a Bundeswehr program, before it was mentioned that it was in fact an Italian Army program.

MAD
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 17, 2020, 03:12:46 AM
Leopard 2 with AG1500 Gas Turbine:

(https://i.imgur.com/3vDATRL.png)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Old Wombat on July 17, 2020, 08:33:08 PM
A racing Leopard! ;D 8)

Recalling Claymore's racing tank builds, I'm almost tempted to buy a Leo 2 just to build something looking a bit like that. :D

Claymore racing tanks:

(Mostly) Chally 1;
(https://i.imgur.com/Gq3Yx0l.jpg)

Leo 2;
(https://i.imgur.com/6MqvtxN.jpg)

From here: http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=7249.25 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=7249.25)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 26, 2020, 02:39:58 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/KnUaxF9.png)(https://i.imgur.com/4RlYe89.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/y6BSNq4.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/DquawK5.jpg)
(https://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Minebreaker-1024x298.png)

More info (https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/author/marknash/page/3/)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on February 03, 2021, 03:21:03 AM
Not a tank per se, though it does have a Leo 1 turret:   The Radpanzer 90:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/RadPz_90_Bild_110.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: LemonJello on February 03, 2021, 04:39:02 AM
Not a tank per se, though it does have a Leo 1 turret:   The Radpanzer 90:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/RadPz_90_Bild_110.jpg)

I have plans and the parts to make something like this with a Boxer and a Leo II turret.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 07, 2021, 02:13:29 AM
Random idea:  Leopard 2 in Sth African scheme:

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/e68/GTwiner/2y3jhr6gqki51.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: M.A.D on June 27, 2021, 09:47:31 PM
Does anyone know of any updated variant of the Motoren und Turbinen Union MB 838, with a higher horsepower than the 830hp that powered the Leopard 1?

MAD

Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: apophenia on June 28, 2021, 01:36:06 AM
Does anyone know of any updated variant of the Motoren und Turbinen Union MB 838, with a higher horsepower than the 830hp that powered the Leopard 1?

AFAIK, the last update was the 'modernized' MTU MB 838 Ka-501. This engine put out 1,400-1,500 hp - compared with 830 hp for Leo 1's MB 838 CaM 500. MTU Friedrichshafen (now part of Rolls-Royce Power Systems, ex-Tognum) does build another 90-degree V10 - the Common Rail 10V2000 (M94) - but, at 22.3 litres displacement, it is much smaller.

MB 838 : Bore/stroke 165 mm/175 mm
10V2000: Bore/stroke 135 mm/156 mm

But MTU seems to regard the V10 layout as obsolete for tank applications - V12s being inherently better balanced. I note that the Indian Army also toys with replacing its Arjun MBT's dated MB 838 Ka-501s with a modern V12. In the Indian case, the V12 preference is for a more closely comparable Cummins QSK38 - 38 litres (159 mm/159 mm bore/stroke) producing 920-1,260 hp (1,600 bhp @ 1900 rpm).

I don't know the external dimensions for these engines. The Arjun is a big vehicle which may give the Indians more options than operators of Leopard 1 variants. If you are looking at modern applications and/or Leo 1 upgrades, probably better to ditch the old MB 838 and ZF 4HP250 in favour of a modern  V12 and Renk transmission.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 28, 2021, 02:24:57 AM
Does anyone know of any updated variant of the Motoren und Turbinen Union MB 838, with a higher horsepower than the 830hp that powered the Leopard 1?

MAD

Yes, supposedly the Indian Arjun tank is powered by a MTU MB 838 Ka-501 V10 putting out 1,400 hp.  There is also the MB 838 Ca-501 used in the OF-40 Mk.3 putting out 950hp.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: M.A.D on June 28, 2021, 07:36:54 AM
Does anyone know of any updated variant of the Motoren und Turbinen Union MB 838, with a higher horsepower than the 830hp that powered the Leopard 1?

AFAIK, the last update was the 'modernized' MTU MB 838 Ka-501. This engine put out 1,400-1,500 hp - compared with 830 hp for Leo 1's MB 838 CaM 500. MTU Friedrichshafen (now part of Rolls-Royce Power Systems, ex-Tognum) does build another 90-degree V10 - the Common Rail 10V2000 (M94) - but, at 22.3 litres displacement, it is much smaller.

MB 838 : Bore/stroke 165 mm/175 mm
10V2000: Bore/stroke 135 mm/156 mm

But MTU seems to regard the V10 layout as obsolete for tank applications - V12s being inherently better balanced. I note that the Indian Army also toys with replacing its Arjun MBT's dated MB 838 Ka-501s with a modern V12. In the Indian case, the V12 preference is for a more closely comparable Cummins QSK38 - 38 litres (159 mm/159 mm bore/stroke) producing 920-1,260 hp (1,600 bhp @ 1900 rpm).

I don't know the external dimensions for these engines. The Arjun is a big vehicle which may give the Indians more options than operators of Leopard 1 variants. If you are looking at modern applications and/or Leo 1 upgrades, probably better to ditch the old MB 838 and ZF 4HP250 in favour of a modern  V12 and Renk transmission.

Thank you apophenia, very informative info.

MAD
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: M.A.D on June 28, 2021, 07:40:22 AM
Does anyone know of any updated variant of the Motoren und Turbinen Union MB 838, with a higher horsepower than the 830hp that powered the Leopard 1?

MAD

Yes, supposedly the Indian Arjun tank is powered by a MTU MB 838 Ka-501 V10 putting out 1,400 hp.  There is also the MB 838 Ca-501 used in the OF-40 Mk.3 putting out 950hp.

Thanks GTX
I never knew there was a OF-40 Mk.3 variant of the OF-40 series🤔

So this 'MB 838 Ca-501 of 950hp:, would that slip into the existing space of the Leopard 1A3 to 1A5 engine bay?? If so one would assume it would need an upgraded transmission to handle the increased horsepower?

MAD
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: M.A.D on June 28, 2021, 09:00:47 AM
Leo3 shown above:

([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/leopard-3-a4.gif[/url])


Any chance of a Leo1 profile with a Bofors L74 105mm L/62 gun Greg???

M.A.D


Hey GTX, how did you go with this request?
I was never gifted with a physical reply 😯😉

MAD
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 29, 2021, 01:41:17 AM
I didn't get around to it sorry - life presumably got in the way...  That said, it would really just show a slightly longer barrel
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 29, 2021, 02:23:02 AM
I never knew there was a OF-40 Mk.3 variant of the OF-40 series🤔

(https://i-com.cdn.gaijin.net/monthly_2019_05/image.png.b7424d226a826458872bd1e74a70d965.png)
(https://i-com.cdn.gaijin.net/monthly_2019_05/image.png.401af6630b7c253687e88df153c8f571.png)
(https://i-com.cdn.gaijin.net/monthly_2019_05/image.png.fef3eddf98851375820ec8f366c3255d.png)
(https://i-com.cdn.gaijin.net/monthly_2019_05/image.png.b1bfac7110bfc6c5ebd2a7dfced8fff7.png)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 29, 2021, 02:24:56 AM
Does anyone know of any kits of the Oto-Melara Palmaria 155mm SPH?

(http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/europe/italy/artillery_vehicle/palmaria/pictures/Palmaria_Oto_Melara_sel-propelled_howitzer_155mm_Italy_Italian_002.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: M.A.D on June 29, 2021, 03:52:58 AM
Thanks again GTX

Helpful and informative 👍

MAD
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Old Wombat on June 29, 2021, 03:13:38 PM
Doesn't look like this has shown up here before (I looked but didn't see it);

Stealth Leopard 1

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9r0Ssd2jR2U/maxresdefault.jpg) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r0Ssd2jR2U)

Click on image for link to video.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: ysi_maniac on August 04, 2021, 07:39:50 AM
Comparing dimensions between production Leopard 2 and prototype.

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/Leopard_2A4_main_battle_tank_Germany_German_army_defence_industry_military_technology_line_drawing_blueprint_001.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/2dd92f0a-e00d-4c3c-98ee-8b8139104966/p/902ec422-e89c-407a-a013-115169e855f5)

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/1480085778_kampfpanzer_leopard-2_prototyp_glattrohrkanone_120mm.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/2dd92f0a-e00d-4c3c-98ee-8b8139104966/p/7f1bd592-268d-4158-bf5c-0830d7ef982f)

Prototype's hull is lengthier than Leo 2A4's :o :icon_ninja:
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: ysi_maniac on August 04, 2021, 11:25:07 AM
Finn Armour in second winter war.

After the fall of Berlin Wall, finn gov and army decide to conquest back the territories that russians took during wwii.

Suply mint Leopard 2A would be too expensive, so finn authorities urge german gov and army to suply turrets and guns, new or used, for Leopard 2A 3 or 4.

When first victories come, finn army begin to take advance of "russian suply" ;)

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/FinnArmour_WinterWar2.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/e58f1c54-aee2-42c9-bc15-f72ec22af374/p/f4517c9f-b79a-41a5-a212-d98863870eca)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Frank3k on August 04, 2021, 11:42:30 PM
Doesn't look like this has shown up here before (I looked but didn't see it);

Stealth Leopard 1

So Tesla got the idea  for their Cybertruck from the stealth Leopard?

(https://www.tesla.com/xNVh4yUEc3B9/04_Desktop.jpg)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: ysi_maniac on August 06, 2021, 01:36:19 AM
Italian army upgrading ther ageing M47 and M48 with Continental diesel engine package and OF-40 turret.

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/M47_M48_OF40_upgrade.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/e58f1c54-aee2-42c9-bc15-f72ec22af374/p/3f0c5cce-aea6-4a4c-b823-39bb094c7529)

Note: OF-40 can be considered part of Leopard 1 family
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on August 08, 2021, 03:25:41 AM
Random idea:  Leopard 1 fitted with either 142mm Anti-Char Rapide Autopropulsé (ACRA) or 152mm M81/MGM-51
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Geoff on August 17, 2021, 03:45:49 AM
Proposed TAM with Leo 2 turret
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: apophenia on August 17, 2021, 04:48:39 AM
Proposed TAM with Leo 2 turret

This is the proposed Tanque Argentino Pesado (TAP) which shared the stretched, 7-roadwheel hull of the TAM VCA 155 Palmaria self-propelled gun.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Geoff on August 17, 2021, 05:45:20 AM
Proposed TAM with Leo 2 turret

This is the proposed Tanque Argentino Pesado (TAP) which shared the stretched, 7-roadwheel hull of the TAM VCA 155 Palmaria self-propelled gun.

yes I believe so
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Marderman on August 17, 2021, 04:59:03 PM
Hello,
TAM with Leo 2, I check it some years before, look here:
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1074.25 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1074.25) It called TAP Tank.

In the past few weeks I have sent some Leopards to "Leopard Club":
http://www.leopardclub.ca/ReadersModels/Diethelm_Berlage/ (http://www.leopardclub.ca/ReadersModels/Diethelm_Berlage/)

Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Geoff on August 18, 2021, 10:02:26 PM
Hello,
TAM with Leo 2, I check it some years before, look here:
[url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1074.25[/url] ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1074.25[/url]) It called TAP Tank.

In the past few weeks I have sent some Leopards to "Leopard Club":
[url]http://www.leopardclub.ca/ReadersModels/Diethelm_Berlage/[/url] ([url]http://www.leopardclub.ca/ReadersModels/Diethelm_Berlage/[/url])


Sorry had not seen the Marder thread - I'm a bit late to the party.

Can i ask where you found the Argentine army star markings on the display picture, or did you print them?

I am trying to do some Argentine what ifs and I am confused about some soft vehicle markings. I know a code EA xxxxxx is used now. But some trucks in the '82 war had the "sun" marking I think - the picture is not good quality. I have also seen vehicles with the air force roundel. Are these specific to army - navy - air force, or ??? Confused am I
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: Zaskar24 on August 22, 2021, 11:18:38 AM
This is an interesting hybrid that I just found out about on the Secret Projects forum. I did not see it here. It does not look like an adapter is needed with the Altay turret, unlike the LeClerc turreted Euro Tank.  https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/the-anatolian-leopard-altay-turret-leopard-ii-chassis-hybrid.36416/ (https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/the-anatolian-leopard-altay-turret-leopard-ii-chassis-hybrid.36416/)

It makes me wonder if the K2 Black Panther turret would work the same since the Altay is at least partially based on it, if memory serves.
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: M.A.D on September 05, 2021, 03:51:57 PM
Leo3 shown above:

([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/leopard-3-a4.gif[/url])


Any chance of a Leo1 profile with a Bofors L74 105mm L/62 gun Greg???

M.A.D


Would such a lengthened gun as the Bofors L74 require additional bracing/support along its length, so as to stop warping, seeing that on the
Stridsvagn 103, it's fixed/supported on the glacis
along the length of the barrel? Something akin to what they've done with the Puma IFV (see attachment)?

MAD
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: M.A.D on September 05, 2021, 03:56:48 PM
Leo3 shown above:

([url]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/leopard-3-a4.gif[/url])


Any chance of a Leo1 profile with a Bofors L74 105mm L/62 gun Greg???

M.A.D



ysi_maniac, could you do your coloured camouflage and accessories (equipment/tools/crew gear) magic with GTX's profile drawing???

MAD
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: ysi_maniac on September 15, 2021, 07:43:10 AM
Leopard with 2 different 120 mm Leonardo turrets. :thumbsup:

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/leopard-leonard(2).jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/e58f1c54-aee2-42c9-bc15-f72ec22af374/p/e08c824e-d8c8-44a0-bd1d-b19e975ee9cf)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: newtonk on September 17, 2021, 04:54:50 AM
Found this oddity, posted here for discussion and dissection...
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: ysi_maniac on September 17, 2021, 06:12:43 AM
Panzer-61 Mid Life Update in 2 different phases

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/Pz-61_upgrade.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/e58f1c54-aee2-42c9-bc15-f72ec22af374/p/ffc981d2-4df8-432a-91b1-0ade2285c63b)
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 18, 2021, 01:55:33 AM
Same vehicle?

(https://i.redd.it/usmrnh880r671.jpg)

If so, it's one of the prototype turrets I believe on a Leo 1 hull
Title: Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 18, 2021, 02:02:48 AM
Or it might actually be this:

(https://i.redd.it/oqca5e5xnf851.jpg)