Author Topic: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 16872 times)

Offline The Big Gimper

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Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« on: November 28, 2015, 07:31:24 AM »
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Offline The Big Gimper

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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2015, 07:38:11 AM »
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Offline uncle les

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2015, 12:34:18 PM »
..and I thought I'd seen everything..   :o

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2015, 01:10:02 PM »
..and I thought I'd seen everything..   :o

Had the same thought!!
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Offline finsrin

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2015, 01:58:05 PM »
Is like Russians modified the Gannet all to heck !
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 02:03:29 PM by finsrin »

Offline uncle les

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2015, 03:50:10 PM »

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2015, 06:31:03 PM »
Thanks Les.

As Bill noted, a Gannetski. This is no worse looking than the Gannet. (actually better looking than the Seamew)

Its on the wishlist now.
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Offline uncle les

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2015, 07:24:42 PM »
Thanks Les.

As Bill noted, a Gannetski. This is no worse looking than the Gannet. (actually better looking than the Seamew)

Its on the wishlist now.

ditto on all counts.  :)

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2015, 03:04:17 AM »
Do one as a small transport
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2015, 03:21:57 AM »
Do it as a light COD aircraft, much like the proposed Martin Mercury derivative of the Martin Mauler.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2015, 12:03:11 PM »
Updated version used for COIN in Afghanistan.

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2015, 06:38:32 PM »
Modelsua now has the kit in stock.

Price after you login is $20.80 USD.
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Offline uncle les

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2015, 08:36:07 PM »
Modelsua now has the kit in stock.

Price after you login is $20.80 USD.

I acquiesced.  I was going to scratch one but...  A$52 later  ( US$20.80 + postage)
I'll call it my Chrissie pressie !
:)

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2015, 09:15:54 PM »
Modelsua now has the kit in stock.

Price after you login is $20.80 USD.

I acquiesced.  I was going to scratch one but...  A$52 later  ( US$20.80 + postage)
I'll call it my Chrissie pressie !
:)


Moi aussi. Picked up 2 kits. Happy Christmas.
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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2016, 06:48:43 AM »
Just got my kits. It's a large plane. Here are the sprues:



Compared to a Gannet:



No pylons or weapons.  :icon_sueno:

« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 07:56:50 AM by The Big Gimper »
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Offline uncle les

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2016, 07:43:39 AM »
Mine just rocked up as well.  I'm contemplating doing some "part archiving" of the main bits in RTV so I can build some alternative versions when the need arises.

Offline Frank3k

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2016, 11:09:49 AM »
Ivan must be wondering what's up with the sudden rush of Tu-91 orders. I got mine today as well!

I thought that a Kh-22 "Kitchen" would look good, but that missile weighs far, far more than the Tu-91 can carry. Something like it, but smaller maybe?

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2016, 02:20:29 AM »
I thought that a Kh-22 "Kitchen" would look good, but that missile weighs far, far more than the Tu-91 can carry. Something like it, but smaller maybe?

I would have suggested a Raduga KSR-5 (AS-6 Kingfish) which was essentially a scaled down version of the Raduga Kh-22 'Kitchen' but even that is too heavy.  Maybe make up a fictional missile?

Alternatively, maybe give it a couple of underwing Kh-23 Groms (AS-7 Kerry)

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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2016, 04:56:58 AM »
AS-9 Kyle? Maybe slightly modified to look more 'Kitchen-esque'?
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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2016, 09:49:15 AM »
I appreciate the suggestions for weapons. I'm not knowledgeable at all on Soviet weapons.

So quick online search on Ebay and the web narrowed down the choice to:

Northstar Models: 1/72 Set of 2 Kh-23M (AS-7 Kerry) Soviet missile + APU-68 launcher



Northstar Models: 1/72 Set of 2 Kh-25 ML/MT/MP Russian / Soviet missile + APU-68 Launchers



Scalemates: DML 1/72 Modern Soviet Aircraft Weapons Set 2 - Air-to-Ground Missiles



I went for the DML package via Ebay just for the quantity of weapons.
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2016, 11:25:25 AM »
I have Set 1 - typical early DML work, with some fit issues, but they will look good!

Did you get set 2 from Jack's Model Kits? (triggerman3) He's ships promptly.

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2016, 07:37:12 PM »
I got it and old Airfix Gnat T.1 from mountbatten5. He took my best offer and also ships via USPS First Class which is mucho cheaper to Canada.

But I have purchased items from triggerman3.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2016, 04:13:40 AM »
AS-9 Kyle? Maybe slightly modified to look more 'Kitchen-esque'?

It is possible, though it was introduced a while after the Tu-91.
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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2016, 04:55:11 AM »
Further to my earlier comments, if you wish to do this as a Soviet operational Tu-91, I would consider the following:

The Tu-91 first flew May 1955.  Therefore, one could expect it to be in service from the late '50s through the '60s and probably into the '70s and maybe even '80s, though being designed to be carrier based its life might have been limited due to the strains such operations put on airframes.  It was also reportedly to have a weapons load of up to 1,500 kg (3,307 lb) of bombs, rockets or a single torpedo.  As such, one doesn't have a real lot to play with if you are trying for realism.

It is quite likely that it would have been equipped with guided missiles during its life though.  Looking at the type of Air-to-surface missiles developed/fielded during the period in consideration we see the following which have potential (ruling out the large ones one of which weighed more than the Tu-91 itself):

Kh-23 Grom (AS-7 'Kerry'):  This weighed around 287 kg (633 lb) and was somewhat equivalent to the US AGM-12 Bullpup.  It entered service in the late '60s/early '70s (if you include the earlier Kh-66 development).

 

Kh-28 (AS-9 'Kyle'): This weighed around 720 kg (1,590 lb) and was an anti-radiation missile (i.e. anti radar/SAMs) and could be considered somewhat similar to the US AGM-78 Standard ARM.  It entered service around 1973.



Kh-25 (AS-10 'Karen'/AS-12 'Kegler'):  This weighed between 299 kg (659 lb) and 315 kg (694 lb) depending upon variant.  It came in two main versions:  The Kh-25 original laser-guided variant and the Anti-radiation version.  Other guidance versions including TV guidance etc were developed later.  It entered service around 1975.  One could consider it to be roughly equivalent to the US ABM-65 Maverick series.



Therefore, I could see a couple of options here:

A general attack version armed with something such as the Kh-23;
A Wild Weasel version armed with the Kh-28; or
A more precise, later era general attack version with the Kh-25.

That said, it is your call, so go for it and have fun doing so!
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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2016, 04:58:42 AM »

Scalemates: DML 1/72 Modern Soviet Aircraft Weapons Set 2 - Air-to-Ground Missiles




This one has the following missiles (2 copies each):

Kh-23 (AS-7 Kerry)
Kh-25 (AS-10 Kerry)
Kh-25 (AS-12 Kegler)
Kh-29 (AS-14 Kedge)
Kh-58 (AS-11 Kilter)
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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2016, 06:10:40 AM »
Thanks for the additional research Greg.

And who is to say that after the Tu-91 was retired from the VMF it was refurbished and sold to other Soviet Bloc Air Forces.  8)
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2016, 06:52:28 AM »
No reason to limit it to carrier ops, either. Maybe as a land based coastal defender.

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2016, 02:54:45 AM »
And who is to say that after the Tu-91 was retired from the VMF it was refurbished and sold to other Soviet Bloc Air Forces.  8)


No reason to limit it to carrier ops, either. Maybe as a land based coastal defender.


Fair points in both cases.  If you note, right at the top, I did state "if you wish to do this as a Soviet operational Tu-91".  I would also take this to mean that it would operate in its originally intended environment which was as a long-range carrier-based strike aircraft.

That said, other nations could certainly have operated the aircraft well into the '80s, '90s and possibly beyond.  I would imagine the Indian Navy/Air Force could be a prime candidate as would China, especially if some had been delivered prior to the Sino-Soviet split.  Other candidates might be Poland and East Germany (or any of the WARPAC nations with coastal regions).

If you extend the life/operational service of the Tu-91 (possibly even considering engine updates - e.g. 14,000+ehp the Kuznetsov NK-12 for the Tu-95 noting that this engine is actually a development of the TV-2M in the Tu-91) you could add in the following Soviet missile developments:

Kh-29 (AS-14 'Kedge'):  This entered service in 1980 and weighed between 660 kg (1,460 lb) and 690 kg (1,520 lb) depending upon variant.  It came in bother laser guided and TV guided versions initially.  Like the earlier Kh25, this could be considered roughly equivalent to the US AGM-65 Maverick...but bigger.



Kh-31 (AS-17 'Krypton'):  A very distinctive missile that entered service in 1988, this would certainly give your Tu-91 a modern look.  Tis is a ramjet powered anti-ship and anti radiation missile that weighs around 600 kg (1,320 lb). It is roughly equivalent to the US AGM-88 Harm.  Interestingly, it is one of the few Soviet missiles to have been used by the USA in the MA-31 Target Drone form (see additional photo below).



Kh-58 (AS-11 'Kilter'):   Between the Kh-31 and earlier Kh-28 there was the Kh-58.  This entered service in 1982 and weighed 650 kg (1,430 lb).  It too is a anti-radiation missile and roughly equivalent to the US AGM-88 Harm.



Kh-59 (AS-13 'Kingbolt'/AS-18 'Kazoo'):  This entered service in 1980 and weighed around 930 kg (2,050 lb) depending upon variant.  It comes in both rocket powered and micro turbine powered variants (the Kh-59M/AS-18).  It is a anti-ship and land attack missile and could be considered roughly equivalent to the US AGM-84 Harpoon/AGM-84E SLAM or AGM-130:



Kh-35U ('AS-20 'Kayak'):  Sometimes called the 'Harpoonski', this anti-ship missile entered service in 2003.  It weighs around 610 kg (1,340 lb) and as you can guess is roughly equivalent to the USAGM-84 Harpoon.



All of these latest missiles are still in service today.
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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2016, 02:58:15 AM »
Interesting video showing the Tu-91:

https://youtu.be/BgrSFxCcSLc
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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2016, 03:02:13 AM »
By the way, if you wanted to take a different track, one could make the Tu-91 a German Luft46++ aircraft.  After all, the TV-2M engine powering it is actually a development of the German Jumo 012 and involved a German design team.  Perhaps use it as a new carrier based attack aircraft on German successors to the Graf Zeppelin...
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2016, 02:13:32 AM »
That said, other nations could certainly have operated the aircraft well into the '80s, '90s and possibly beyond.  I would imagine the Indian Navy/Air Force could be a prime candidate as would China, especially if some had been delivered prior to the Sino-Soviet split.  Other candidates might be Poland and East Germany (or any of the WARPAC nations with coastal regions).

The Il-28 first flew in 1948 and went into service in 1950.  It was in service with the USSR until the 1980s and longer in other countries; I saw film of an Il-86 in Afghanistan (although I couldn't tell if it was a Russian or Afghan plane).

If the Tu-91 had been successful, a 30 year service life would not be unexpected, especially outside the USSR. I like the idea of upgrading the engine, since the NK-12 would give it commonality with the Tu-95. It looks like it would fit in the fuselage, although it may be longer than the TV-2M, the exhaust length could be made shorter to accommodate the difference.

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2016, 05:58:45 AM »
Another idea might be to give the Tu-91 a bulbous under fuselage radar such as that seen on the Ka-25 below:



The resulting platform could be used in one of the following roles:

Some form of organic AEW for the Soviet carrier
An ASW platform - perhaps with added sonobuoys
A mid-course missile guidance platform, for ship- and submarine-launched missiles - much as the pictured Ka-25K was used for.
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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Tu-91 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2016, 08:05:25 PM »
IPMS Deutschland has a Tu-91 Review here. Much better sprue shots than mine.

Translated summary: An exotic model has implemented very well in 1/72 Modelsvit . For the very experienced modeler, the Tu- 91 is highly recommended. (sic)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2016, 08:51:27 PM by The Big Gimper »
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