Author Topic: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 186186 times)

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #275 on: July 05, 2017, 03:14:10 PM »
i'll dig it out when I have the chance (school holidays at the moment so no guarantees when.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #276 on: July 10, 2017, 02:33:07 AM »
Two Australian LHDstogether:

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #277 on: July 10, 2017, 04:18:03 AM »
Looks like you've got a lot of sick ships there ----

Offline exkiwiforces

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #278 on: July 21, 2017, 11:15:57 AM »
You guys, are giving me some really good ideas for a late 1970's Far East Fleet. The idea is the Brits don't fully withdraw from Singers, but maintain a small but highly effective FEF to support the two reduce Brigades in the region the 28th Commonwealth Brigade and the Gurkha Brigade along with the Honkers Brigade which is under the command of UKForces Hong Kong.

The RAF maintains a small support group in the Far East, such as the Wessex Sqn in Honkers and a small rotary FLT at the Jungle School, but no combat Aircraft except for the odd ex and the odd Nimrod deployment.

The Royal Navy, Far East Fleet is base around 1 Malta Class and HMS Victorious Carriers with HMAS Hermes being the 3rd Carrier and along with her escort group. The Amphibious SQN is built around 1x RM Battalion Goup with a Fearless Class LPD and Tobruk Class LSL. When combined with the Combine ANZAC Amphibious SQN it becomes a Brigade size group. Support Group is RFA, RAN and RNZN. All FEF ships are based in Singers apart from UKForces Hong Kong RN Ships, and both RAN and RNZN rotate through Singers as required.

Both Australia and New Zealand  each maintains an Battalion Group, with the Australian Battalion Group in the Butterworth area and the Kiwi's in Singers. They have formed a combine Air Task Group split between the Butterworth and Singers built around Fighter Sqn, Maritime FLT, Transport Sqn and Rotary Wing SQN.

As a result of the last Commonwealth Heads of Meeting, Great Britain said it will ditch its idea to join the EEC, but formed a Commonwealth Common Market (CCM) and the Commonwealth Defence Organisation (CDO) which reinforces the Five Power Defence Treaty already signed.

As a result of this arrangement see's Australian and New Zealand Navies re-quip with modified British design Naval Ships built in Australian Shipyards and the both the Navy Dockyards in Singers, Australian and in New Zealand along the Shipyards in Australia provide support ie refits etc to the FEF also noting that Simonstown Agreement is still maintain which later becomes very handy during the Falkland's war.

The Australian Navy see's the HMS Hermes transfer to the RAN. Her Air Group is the 3 Skyhawk SQNS (2 RAN and 1 RNZAF/RNZN) with each maintaining a SQN each at home as well. Combined ASW SQN of Gannets SQN, AEW FLT, the COD Section is base on the Dornier V/STOL Transport (as a result of the UK selling the Harrier to Germany) and SAR FLT.

HMAS Melbourne becomes a ASW/ Command Assault Carrier for the Combine ANZAC Amphibious SQN.

The RAN has 3 Daring Class Destroyers which are later replaced by 6 County class destroyers, 12 Type 12 Leander class and 6 Type 12 River Class Frigates.

Support Group is 2 Fort Class Ships and 2 Leaf class ships.

Amphibious Group is 1x Fearless LPD, 2 x Tobruk Class LSL and 2RAR is transferred to the RAN to formed Royal Australian Marines and is slowly expanded to a Brigade minus.

Small Ship Group is what ever present number is.

The New Zealand Armed Forces see's a massive change under big Norm Kirk.

RNZN has 6 Type 12 Leander class and retains the 2 Type Whitby Frigates and later a 3rd is added.

Support Group/ Amphibious Group is 1x Fort Class, 1x Leaf Class (Both Ships are also able to do the run south), 1x Fearless LPD and Tobruk Class LSL ships.

1x Ice breaker/ Repair Ship (Fleet Standby Ship)

Home/ SW Pacific SQN is not part of the FEF ORBAT.

The Army is re-rolled to a Light Amphibious Group with 1x RF Battalion Grp, 1x High Readiness Battalion Grp (TF Soldiers on a 5yr contract with 18mths fulltime service) 4 TF Battalions later reduced to 3 with a reinforce Armoured Group of 5 Sqns (3 Cav and 2 APC SQN's) which is not part of ORBAT of Light Amphibious Group, but used as a bolt on when required ie 1x Cav and 1x APC SQN's.

The biggest Change is the RNZAF itself.

The Air Strike wing becomes is a Joint Force command (RNZAF/ FAA) with 2 A4 Skyhawk SQN's with one SQN assigned to HMAS Hermes and the other SQN based in NZ along with the Light Attack/ Lead in Fighter SQN.

Maritime Group is a Joint Force command is based around 5SQN using 9 P3's and 6SQN using Gannets minus one FLT as its assigned to HMAS Hermes.

The Rotary Wing is a Joint Force command with 3SQN and the FAA SQN that's assigned to Support/Amphibious Group equip with Wessex Helo's, expect for the Frigate base Helo's  that SQN is solely FAA equip with Wasps and later Lynx's Helo's.

Transport Group is 9 C-130's, 6 Belfasts and 18 Heralds.

All Flying training is run by the RNZAF and the FAA. 


Once my other builds are out of the way and I'm happy with skill level. I'm going to convert my 1/600 Airfix HMS Victorious to a 1/700 Malta Class and slowly build dream FEF up.





   
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 07:43:33 PM by exkiwiforces »

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #279 on: July 21, 2017, 03:51:50 PM »
You guys, are giving me some really good ideas for a late 1970's Far East Fleet. The idea is the Brits don't fully withdraw from Singers, but maintain a small but highly effective FEF to support the two reduce Brigades in the region the 28th and the Gurkha along with the Honkers Brigade.

The RAF maintains a small support group in the Far East, such as the Wessex Sqn in Honkers and a small rotary FLT at the Jungle School, but no combat Aircraft except for the odd ex and the odd Nimrod deployment. 

More to follow soon

The plans as I understood them was five CV/CVA to cover NATO and east of Suez commitments, then three CV/CVA to cover the east of Suez and several Escort Cruisers for NATO (I know it was always at least five but have heard eight as well, five for NATO as HUK group leaders and three for CVA escort duties).  Then, after the cancellation of CVA-01 and the withdrawal from East of Suez it was six Command/ASW Helicopter Cruisers (the spiritual successor to the Escort Cruiser) that evolved into the Invincible class with numbers cut to three for financial reasons.

Offline exkiwiforces

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #280 on: July 21, 2017, 04:50:57 PM »
In my FEF ORBAT I have one Malta Class, HMS Victorious, HMAS Hermes and HMAS Melbourne in her swing role. With HMS Ark Royal, Eagle and Two Malta Class Carriers to the Home Fleet/ Med SQN along with the Canadian Carrier.

Which later on are replace by  new 3 build Malta Class and 6 Invincible class carriers built between the British and Australian Shipyards under the Commonwealth Defence Organisation (CDO).

 

 

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #281 on: July 22, 2017, 04:50:24 AM »
I'm going to convert my 1/600 Airfix HMS Victorious to a 1/700 Malta Class


Looking forward to this.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline exkiwiforces

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #282 on: July 22, 2017, 12:25:29 PM »
I'm going to convert my 1/600 Airfix HMS Victorious to a 1/700 Malta Class


Looking forward to this.

I'm hoping to start this as a wet season project around Nov, but its depends on a few such as med cat at work ie if they med dischange me etc.

Offline exkiwiforces

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #283 on: July 22, 2017, 12:32:56 PM »
If the RN maintain its fixed wing after the CVA-01 had cancel. Would HMS Hermes been due for another major refit? If so what would Flight deck look like? And this would have been the same as HMS Eagle and HMS Ark Royal?

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #284 on: July 22, 2017, 08:45:08 PM »
Thorvic (Geoff Baker) over on the Secret Projects Forum (you have to be a registered member to see any pics) or on the What-If Modelers Forum would be the person to talk to. He's done numerous carrier builds of all the various proposed refits.

Offline jcf

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #285 on: July 23, 2017, 03:09:16 AM »
Hickman Sea Sled with Caproni bomber, WWI US experiment. 55mph top speed.

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #286 on: July 23, 2017, 04:31:38 AM »
Cool
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #287 on: February 04, 2018, 11:07:08 PM »
Studying config of carriers during WWII I noticed that only japanese  tried funnel out of island. in my opinion funnel in the opposite side to island looks sensible for the sake of balance. In the same way, exhausting sideways or downwards sounds sensible too.

Why these  aiternative dispositions were not continued?

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #288 on: April 05, 2018, 06:03:59 AM »
Something different:

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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #289 on: April 05, 2018, 06:37:00 AM »
Already forwarded to Elon Musk. If he can land a booster on an itsy-bitsy barge why not the reverse?
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #290 on: April 05, 2018, 10:56:45 AM »
I can see Culture Agent Musk funding this:


Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #291 on: April 06, 2018, 01:01:05 AM »
Sea Launch had been launching satellites off the back of a converted oil rig for a number of years before they went bankrupt.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #292 on: May 26, 2018, 09:44:14 PM »
Just a mash of two ideas.
1. The many USN concepts from the 70s and 80s for sea control ships, helicopter conversions of the Spruance hull, hybrid V/STOL carrier version of the Strike Cruiser etc.
2. The occasional US willingness to consider, or even adopt foriegn designs when their own efforts don't work out, i.e. Harrier, Goshawk, both LCS designs, most of the frigate designs being looked at currently etc.


The result of this thinking:

Having cancelled the SCS and with the air capable Spruances leading nowhere,(while the Navy was losing the last of their CVS's, just as the Soviet submarine threat, along with the Bear long range air and sea launched antiship missile threat was increasing) the USN deside to look at foriegn designs to form the basis of a aviation cruiser.  THe selected design is the Italian Giuseppe Garibaldi, suitably modified with either NTU derived or AEGIS combat system and SM-2.

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #293 on: May 27, 2018, 03:11:48 AM »
It would be interesting to see why they would consider/choose something such as the Giuseppe Garibaldi over their own designs such as the SCS which essentially became represented in real life by the Spanish Príncipe de Asturias or even a modification of a LHA/LHD such as the Tarawa class.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #294 on: May 27, 2018, 07:18:58 PM »
It would be interesting to see why they would consider/choose something such as the Giuseppe Garibaldi over their own designs such as the SCS which essentially became represented in real life by the Spanish Príncipe de Asturias or even a modification of a LHA/LHD such as the Tarawa class.

The SCS was very austere and quite slow, hence the USN interest in Spruance based designs that however proved to be very compromised on the aviation side of things.  The LHA was also slow as well as very expensive, incorporating may features that added nothing to its aviation capabilities.  Basically the US could have designed the perfect ship for themselves but assuming the requirement was realised during the late 70s, early 80s for the expanded 600 ship navy at the height of the cold war, the entire detail design capacity of the eastern sea board was working on the Arleigh Burke Class AEGIS destroyer.

No suitable existing designs and no spare design capacity, plus an urgent requirement, means an existing design, at that point either Invincible or Garibaldi.  Systems commonality makes the Italian ship more attractive.

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #295 on: May 28, 2018, 11:53:56 PM »
The result of this thinking:

Having cancelled the SCS and with the air capable Spruances leading nowhere,(while the Navy was losing the last of their CVS's, just as the Soviet submarine threat, along with the Bear long range air and sea launched antiship missile threat was increasing) the USN deside to look at foriegn designs to form the basis of a aviation cruiser.  THe selected design is the Italian Giuseppe Garibaldi, suitably modified with either NTU derived or AEGIS combat system and SM-2.
To figure out if this makes sense, we really need to expand on the mission/role of these ships. If the mission is convoy escort (the SCS mission) then, yeah, you can probably get away with something as small as the Garibaldi, armed with a dozen helos and 6-ish F-35s for convoy air cover. You're still relying upon frigates and destroyers to provide proper air defense.

If you want the ship to also anchor the air defense, allowing the ship escorts to be smaller, specialised, ASW frigates and corvettes, then the Garibaldi isn't big enough and you need something that can carry both the air element _and_ a substantial VLS farm of at least 100 cells. You're probably looking at about 20-25K tons as the smallest platform that can manage both roles. Missile armaments in the 70s, when the SCSs were conceived, were a lot shorter than they are today, bot the attackers and the defenders. As a dedicated escort, a modern CSC would need to tie up at least a Burke class destroyer or two destroyers armed with fewer missiles in order to provide the air defense needed for a valuable convoy. A complement of 6-ish F-35s isn't going to be able to provide a terribly in-depth AAD for a convoy, It'll need an AAD destroyer or two or need to carry the AAMs itself.

If it is not being used to carry the AAMs, then it probably doesn't need the advanced combat system as the air warfare destroyer will have the combat system along with its AAMs.

Decisions, decisions.  :D

Paul


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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #296 on: December 31, 2018, 06:58:36 AM »
Just found that you can get a 1/700 Malta Class from Imperial Hobby Productions - it ain't cheap though...



https://www.shapeways.com/product/4EZ4XLWYK/1-700-hms-malta-hull?optionId=57250460https://www.shapeways.com/marketplace?type=product&q=700+Malta+class

Am still tempted though.  Idea would be to do it post angled deck fit out.  Maybe have story that the Malta class were completed and distributed throughout Commonwealth:

HMS Africa:  Becomes HMSAS South Africa
HMS Gibraltar:  Becomes HMAS Australia
HMS Malta:  Becomes HMCS Canada
HMS New Zealand:  Becomes HMCS New Zealand
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #297 on: December 31, 2018, 09:00:00 PM »
Divorces have happened over less but still tempting.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #298 on: January 01, 2019, 03:01:40 AM »
Be interesting to see an angled-deck conversion.  I wonder if such might have happened during the initial build phase?

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #299 on: January 01, 2019, 04:38:14 PM »
Just found that you can get a 1/700 Malta Class from Imperial Hobby Productions - it ain't cheap though...



https://www.shapeways.com/product/4EZ4XLWYK/1-700-hms-malta-hull?optionId=57250460https://www.shapeways.com/marketplace?type=product&q=700+Malta+class

Am still tempted though.  Idea would be to do it post angled deck fit out.  Maybe have story that the Malta class were completed and distributed throughout Commonwealth:

HMS Africa:  Becomes HMSAS South Africa
HMS Gibraltar:  Becomes HMAS Australia
HMS Malta:  Becomes HMCS Canada
HMS New Zealand:  Becomes HMCS New Zealand

Kiwiland doesn't get a carrier? ??? ;)


1/350 in full production run styrene would be more my speed. ::)
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