Author Topic: AIM-4/-26/-47, AGM-76 Falcon, and AIM-54 Phoenix (Read 19918 times)

elmayerle · « **Reply #25 on:** February 11, 2013, 10:59:48 AM »

How about an exportable Phoenix that replaces the US avionics with similar British systems, say the guidance system from Active Skyflash with a larger antenna and whatever other systems are needful. The British content could make acquisition rather more palatable for some countries. One could make the same offer to other countries, such as France, though I could see a joint Anlgo-French Phoenxi variant to arm FAA and Aeronavale F-14s.

finsrin · « **Reply #26 on:** February 11, 2013, 11:16:23 AM »

Use them on radar equiped Avro Lincoln. Loiter for hours and use if needed. Works in a kitbash air force.
Can do same with Valiant-Victor-Vulcan.

Another idea: How about using the Swordfish. One is radar equiped and one to six (or so) others, each with one Phoenix data linked to radar plane patrol around the fleet.

Daryl J. · « **Reply #27 on:** February 11, 2013, 11:23:50 AM »

It reminds me of an Orion with Harpoons....

elmayerle · « **Reply #28 on:** February 11, 2013, 12:25:39 PM »

Quote from: finsrin on February 11, 2013, 11:16:23 AM

Use them on radar equiped Avro Lincoln. Loiter for hours and use if needed. Works in a kitbash air force.
Can do same with Valiant-Victor-Vulcan.

Another idea: How about using the Swordfish. One is radar equiped and one to six (or so) others, each with one Phoenix data linked to radar plane patrol around the fleet.

There was a study of a Vulcan carrying 12 Phoenix missles.

Daryl,
How about an AEW Orion with the F-14's AN/APG-71 in the nose and carrying Phoenix missiles underwing and in the weapons bay?

Rickshaw · « **Reply #29 on:** February 11, 2013, 12:41:51 PM »

There were proposals for "Phoenix-like" missiles in British service - airborne Seaslug and Seadart - on various platforms but the "battlestar" Vulcan was perhaps easily the most attractive (and achievable). Putting new electronics into Phoenix would have driven the cost even higher. I'd have put a booster on Active Skyflash to give it the same sort of range as Phoenix. Its electronics would have been as good, if not better (later generation) and it would have been adequate to destroy most targets.

Daryl J. · « **Reply #30 on:** February 11, 2013, 12:43:27 PM »

Quote

Daryl,
How about an AEW Orion with the F-14's AN/APG-71 in the nose and carrying Phoenix missiles underwing and in the weapons bay?

That'd be cool.

That's the idea I have for my Airfix B-57x Canberra albeit obviously with far fewer Phoenix missiles. There are several details yet needing worked out.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit:

Quote

I'd have put a booster on Active Skyflash to give it the same sort of range as Phoenix. Its electronics would have been as good, if not better (later generation) and it would have been adequate to destroy most targets.

That is exactly the scenario I've come up with for my Sea Vixen rather than the Phoenix. Granted, it means they stay in service longer, but the aircraft won't ever have served with the British. Hopefully will have some rather non-Sparrowlike wings, say more like the latest Sea Sparrow. But that is another topic. :)

elmayerle · « **Reply #31 on:** February 12, 2013, 01:51:25 AM »

My concept takes advantage of teh datalink possibilities to hand-off targets to ground- or ship-launched Nike-Phoenix SAMs (Nike-Hercules with updated motors and the avionics of the Phoenix; a joint McDD-Hughes proposal to Japan to replace their Nike-Hercules missiles).

dy031101 · « **Reply #32 on:** February 12, 2013, 02:29:53 AM »

Quote from: elmayerle on February 12, 2013, 01:51:25 AM

My concept takes advantage of teh datalink possibilities to hand-off targets to ground- or ship-launched Nike-Phoenix SAMs (Nike-Hercules with updated motors and the avionics of the Phoenix; a joint McDD-Hughes proposal to Japan to replace their Nike-Hercules missiles).

Curiosity- was Nike-Phoenix (or Nike-Hercules, for that matter) really ever proposed for shipboard use?

elmayerle · « **Reply #33 on:** February 12, 2013, 08:43:41 AM »

Not that I know of and you'd likely need some very special accomodations for it if you tried. On the other hand, a boosted Sea Phoenix would work well.

Jeffry Fontaine · « **Reply #34 on:** February 12, 2013, 03:41:58 PM »

Some variations on the AIM-54 that I created a couple of years ago and I suspect that there are many others yet to be created. :)

taiidantomcat · « **Reply #35 on:** February 13, 2013, 07:27:45 AM »

Quote from: Jeffry Fontaine on February 12, 2013, 03:41:58 PM

Some variations on the AIM-54 that I created a couple of years ago and I suspect that there are many others yet to be created. :)

I like these :)... Got my creative juices going

Jeffry Fontaine · « **Reply #36 on:** February 13, 2013, 01:36:58 PM »

Quote from: taiidantomcat on February 13, 2013, 07:27:45 AM

Quote from: Jeffry Fontaine on February 12, 2013, 03:41:58 PM
Some variations on the AIM-54 that I created a couple of years ago and I suspect that there are many others yet to be created. :)
I like these :)... Got my creative juices going

Glad I could help :)

Inspiration was due to the excessive numbers of Hasegawa weapons sets and other kits that have an abundance of AIM-54 shapes so I downloaded an image of the Phoenix from some missile data base on line that had a reasonably sized image and went to work finding some suitable variations on the basic Phoenix shape and those featured in the attached image were the most appealing of the bunch.

Daryl J. · « **Reply #37 on:** February 13, 2013, 02:16:15 PM »

I liked them too.

elmayerle · « **Reply #38 on:** February 14, 2013, 01:13:14 AM »

Boosted Phoenix = Bendix Eagle reincarnated. Still a good idea.

Jeffry,
i definitely like those shapes; some would look right at home under a 'barrier defense" P-3 variant.

Jeffry Fontaine · « **Reply #39 on:** February 14, 2013, 01:44:21 AM »

Quote from: Daryl J. on February 13, 2013, 02:16:15 PM

I liked them too.

Quote from: elmayerle on February 14, 2013, 01:13:14 AM

Boosted Phoenix = Bendix [/i]Eagle[/i] reincarnated. Still a good idea.

Jeffry,
i definitely like those shapes; some would look right at home under a 'barrier defense" P-3 variant.

Should be easy enough to craft from a pair of Phoenix shapes to create the missile you want.

I like the option to scale up a 1:72nd scale Phoenix to 1:48th scale and call it the ultimate Falcon. It should have no problem fitting inside of the weapons bays on the F-106 and F-102. You could do a bit of kit bashing and graft the IR seeker on to the nose of the scaled up Phoenix to have a dedicated heat seeker too but that is just more work for those that wish it. :)

Daryl J. · « **Reply #40 on:** February 14, 2013, 01:58:57 AM »

I may tape up my Sea Vixen and dry fit some "shape estimates". Hmmmmm...... :)

Jeffry Fontaine · « **Reply #41 on:** March 04, 2013, 01:29:17 PM »

The recent discussion about the air-launched Patriot PAC-3 ATBM from an F-15 got me to wondering how close in diameter the original MIM-104 Patriot was to the AIM-54 Phoenix. Turns out one is 15.0" and the other is 16.0" which means not much of a difference when you are working in smaller scales like 1:72nd or 1:48th. This in turn led to some cut and paste to come up with an extended range AIM-54 Phoenix ATBM by increasing the length to match the Patriot (19.0') since the Phoenix is just 13.0' in length with the difference being 6.0' it was easy enough to extend the length of the missile body and remove all of the wings at the same time leaving just the control surfaces at the aft end of the missile. See attached images showing the standard size Phoenix with the extended range Phoenix to get an idea of the overall increase in length for the Phoenix ABM one with wings and one without wings.

Daryl J. · « **Reply #42 on:** March 07, 2013, 01:08:59 PM »

Nice !

Jeffry Fontaine · « **Reply #43 on:** March 08, 2013, 01:20:16 AM »

Quote from: Daryl J. on March 07, 2013, 01:08:59 PM

Nice !

Thanks,

I like the first one better as it would be much easier to create but the second version with the large wings does have a certain attraction. Mounting something like that on an F-14 would probably see it taking up both the front and rear pallets which means just two carried but for an ASAT/ATBM CAP it would be enough. Fiddling around with the nose could get you some details to suggest a shroud that is jettisoned after launch to uncover the IR seeker that would be necessary for finding the target.

Daryl J. · « **Reply #44 on:** March 08, 2013, 09:37:38 PM »

What is the width of the radar(s) used to support the Phoenix?

Rickshaw · « **Reply #45 on:** March 08, 2013, 09:43:17 PM »

Quote from: Daryl J. on March 08, 2013, 09:37:38 PM

What is the width of the radar(s) used to support the Phoenix?

Quote

The main element is the Hughes AWG-9 X-band radar; the antenna is a 36 in (91 cm)-wide planar array, and has integrated IFF antennas.

[Source]

Daryl J. · « **Reply #46 on:** March 09, 2013, 12:17:49 AM »

Thanks! :)

Now to begin a list of potential AWG-9 carrying airframes for the Near Real Whiffverse. The Sea Vixen is already slated for a Scandinavian modified version.

CF-105
Canberra
Javelin

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #47 on:** March 09, 2013, 05:14:05 AM »

Quote from: Daryl J. on March 09, 2013, 12:17:49 AM

Thanks! :)

Now to begin a list of potential AWG-9 carrying airframes for the Near Real Whiffverse. The Sea Vixen is already slated for a Scandinavian modified version.

CF-105
Canberra
Javelin

Hmmm...Sea Vixen with AWG-9 and AIM-54...I like!!! :)

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #48 on:** March 09, 2013, 05:30:50 AM »

Speaking of SeaVixens with a F-14 twist...

Daryl J. · « **Reply #49 on:** March 09, 2013, 05:36:15 AM »

I think near-real whiffing is more work than R-W modelling when it comes to research.

The premise: Sweden (Norway? Denmark? Nokia?) does to the AIM-54 as what Volvo did to the P&W JT8D to make the RM8B. But where, how, when, etc. for the backstory.

It would seem accuracy, range, and price would be proper starting points for improvement. And secrecy given the political climates prone to tug at the Blue and Yellow Scandihoovians.


Swords to Plowshares GB Now Open!!

News:

Author Topic: AIM-4/-26/-47, AGM-76 Falcon, and AIM-54 Phoenix (Read 19918 times)