NHI NH-90 series including NFH-90 and MRH-90

[GTX_Admin]

BTW, the NH-90 series can also carry external fuel tanks - they have a special adaption to carry them though:

[Rickshaw]

UH-60M:  11 seated troops or 6 medieval stretchers
MRH-90:  20 seated troops or 12 medieval stretchers

They been in service that long, Greg?

I think you need that morning coffee....   

[Rickshaw]

Dare I say it AH-64D/E instead of Tiger 

Dare I repeat what has been said before:  At the time the decision was made Australia could acquire twice as many Tigers as AH-64s. The Australian dollar was running at around 0.5USD and the price offered by Eurocopter was most attractive. Moreover, just as with the MRH-90 selection, at the time it was also at the start of its development life and thus offered far more growth/development potential than its rivals (AH-64 and AH-1).  Now one can argue with the benefit of hindsight that perhaps things wouldn't work out, but I can assure you that at the time, the Tiger deal was far the better choice.

It also fitted much more closely with the Army's doctrine on the employment of helicopters.  They weren't sure if they wanted a replacement scout or a heavily armed gunship and the Tiger was a good compromise between the two.  What they knew they wanted was something more survivable than the Kiowa and something that could provide the Army with some form of air support on insertion missions without the need to call on the RAAF.

[Volkodav]

I admit I am biased against the platforms but that probably has more to do with the procurement failings and biases I have picked up from friends and colleagues who have worked with the machines on the coalface (ADF maintainers) or on the project in the early days back in Europe.  I do not doubt they will be great assets in years to come but the fact remains a proper procurement would have seen an FMS option in service and potentially supporting our troops in Afghanistan several years ago.

I note that Sweden actually ordered Blackhawks as an interim measure as their NH90s were not going to be available in the required timeframe.  Again it is a failing of Australian procurement rather than the machines in question that the required capabilities were not covered off pending IOC.  We could have acquired a number of helicopters through FMS as an interim option as was done with the Super Hornets, we could have upgraded the Blackhawks with self defence suites, we didn't, not Eurocopters fault rather than of the procurement strategy.

On the AW101 I remember reading that it was seen as too large to be used as a Blackhawk replacement and was eliminated but that it had been seen as suitable as a Sea King replacement and had the Blackhawk replacement remained a separate project it may have been useful as a supplement to the Chinook and would have been ideal for use on the LPAs and later the LHDs.  It will be interesting to see how the transport Merlins go in RN/RM service along side the ASW and (later AEW) versions, I also note that Japan is using AW101s as MCM helicopters replacing MH-53E.  Basically there are a number of roles the AW101 could fill in the ADF very well that the NH90 (or the MH-60R for that matter) can't and as such those gaps will remain unfilled.  I still think there is space for the AW101 and the MH-60S in the ADF in the future, the Sierras to replace the retained Blackhawks in SOF support but also so in the CSAR and light strike role off the RANs ships and the AW101 as a heavy ASW, AEW and MCM helo.

All that said, prior to my current health problems I was working towards applying for Special Service Officer entry into the Australian Army as a helicopter pilot so would have ended up flying either the MRH90 or Tiger had I been successful so I can't really hate them that much.

[GTX_Admin]

UH-60M:  11 seated troops or 6 medieval stretchers
MRH-90:  20 seated troops or 12 medieval stretchers

They been in service that long, Greg?

I think you need that morning coffee....   

Damn spell checker...though it did seem to go on forever.

[GTX_Admin]

Hmmm...add a couple of 20mm cannon pods and one has the start of a CSAR platform,:

[Volkodav]

I recon its a Freudian slip, you we imagining going medieval on me for knocking your old project 
Don't worry I feel the same when people knock projects Ive worked on, except for the current one, I knock that more than anyone and believe it should not just be knocked but preferably beaten to death, drowned, shot, stabbed, burnt, slashed and poisoned as well.

[Rickshaw]

You left out buried...   

[Weaver]

So what is a "medieval stretcher" anyway? Two tree branches with a rough blanket wrapped around them, or does it have iron poles with fleur-de-lis finials and a nicely embroidered fabric? 

[GTX_Admin]

I recon its a Freudian slip, you we imagining going medieval on me for knocking your old project 

Trust me no. That was one project I am glad to have left

[Rickshaw]

So what is a "medieval stretcher" anyway? Two tree branches with a rough blanket wrapped around them, or does it have iron poles with fleur-de-lis finials and a nicely embroidered fabric? 

I thought it was the same as an Ancient one - the warrior's shield...   

[Silver Fox]

Medieval Stretcher...

I thought it was a simple shovel. It is an era when they bury the survivors after all, let alone the wounded. :)

[kitnut617]

Hmmm...add a couple of 20mm cannon pods and one has the start of a CSAR platform,:

Hmm! someone in their design office is on our forums ---

[Weaver]

Medieval Stretcher...

I thought it was a simple shovel. It is an era when they bury the survivors after all, let alone the wounded. :)

Ah, this kind of stretcher:

Monty Python And The Holy Grail - I Feel Happy

 

[GTX_Admin]

Spot the difference between these two MRH-90s aboard HMAS Canberra (image will expand if you click upon it):

[The Big Gimper]

025 is marked as Navy
035 is marked as Army

[GTX_Admin]

025 is marked as Navy
035 is marked as Army

Correct - it is hard to tell the difference at first glance though.

[The Big Gimper]

025 is marked as Navy
035 is marked as Army

Correct - it is hard to tell the difference at first glance though.

Members of the Air Force excel at recognition tests.   

I was looking for a nuclear weapon load first. 

[Old Wombat]

Picked it in a couple of seconds - I'm Navy!

[Volkodav]

At the risk of committing heresy the difference should be, the UH-60M is Army and the MH-60S is Navy, or the green, brown black EH101 is Army and the grey one is Navy, assuming the government either followed ADF advice on what to get, or two, they actually read and followed the requirements for the additional troop lift helicopter requirement the MRH90 was originally acquired against.

[GTX_Admin]

https://adbr.com.au/breaking-army-to-retire-mrh-90-taipans-10-years-early/

[robunos]

Hmmmmm . . .
Why does the cynic in me see the NH-90's problems as the perfect reason to allow Morrison to further his pivot towards the USA . . .


cheers,
Robin.

[Volkodav]

Some say retired ten years too early, I say its ten years too late.

[Spey Phantom]

Australia isnt the only country that is thinking of dumping the NH90, here in Belgium, it was also announced last year that the NH90 is proven to be too expensive and in too little numbers to be relevant, especially the TTH version.
not to mention that the spareparts supply for the type from Airbus Helicopters is not all that great.
so now the plans are to withdraw the 4 TTH version from service by 2024 and replace them with a new type. the parts that are being freed up will be used to keep the NFH versions flying as they are more important for SAR and Maretime security duties. rumor has it that both the NH90-TTH and the 8 remaining Agusta A109BAi's will be replaced by 10 to 15 H145M's.

however, more recently, it has come to light that the 4 NH90-NFH's in service are too few in numbers to fullfill all mission requirments, especially counting in downtime for overhauls and maintainance, a problem that will only worsen when they will also recieve an ASW capability by 2025. so options are now to either buy 1 or 2 additional NFH's or another helicopter type for SAR duties (or outsourcing the SAR mission to a civilian contractor), freeing up the NH90-NFH's for the maretime warfare missions.

so Australia isnt the only country with issues.
even Norway is looking at other types as a stopgap as deliveries are also drasticly delayed.

[GTX_Admin]

Why does the cynic in me see the NH-90's problems as the perfect reason to allow Morrison to further his pivot towards the USA . . .

Australia's greater alignment with the US isn't just a current Govt thing.  Both sides of politics are aligned on this.  It is very obvious why when one looks at the bigger strategic picture too...