Tilt-Rotor Aircraft

[Silver Fox]

Has anyone said how they are going to deal with the F-35 engine cans? My understanding is that it doesn't fit into a V-22 cargo bay.

The V-22 cargo bay has a published width of 65" and the F135 has a diameter of 46". 19" is not much of an allowance for a shipping can and a transport pallet.

Awkward, but it would be possible to ship the can only (assuming it fits), but a bit tight. They must have a plan to support the F-35 during a COD mission, anyone have any details?

[taiidantomcat]

The usual bunch of 'nay-sayers' are having a field day with this  --

Yeah, and it's quite entertaining if you're actually familiar with the aircraft (something I can claim legitimately).

Ive been enjoying all the hurt feelings immensely, can't wait in another 6 months for more "bad news" to drop  2015 is going to be a great year in that way.

Has anyone said how they are going to deal with the F-35 engine cans? My understanding is that it doesn't fit into a V-22 cargo bay.

The V-22 cargo bay has a published width of 65" and the F135 has a diameter of 46". 19" is not much of an allowance for a shipping can and a transport pallet.

Awkward, but it would be possible to ship the can only (assuming it fits), but a bit tight. They must have a plan to support the F-35 during a COD mission, anyone have any details?

special container^



Oh my 

[kitnut617]

I couldn't quite see why the USN would consider the V-22 as a COD if it couldn't carry the F-35 engine shipping cradles.  They must have known it was capable of doing it well before hand. 

I couldn't understand one of the detractors comments that it wasn't capable of carrying the weight of them either, he said the Greyhound could bring on-board 5 tons of cargo, the specs for the V-22 say it can carry 20,000 lb internally, well that '10' tons --- much more capable I'd think --- and take it to any ship with a landing pad to boot.

[Kerick]

I couldn't quite see why the USN would consider the V-22 as a COD if it couldn't carry the F-35 engine shipping cradles.  They must have known it was capable of doing it well before hand. 

I couldn't understand one of the detractors comments that it wasn't capable of carrying the weight of them either, he said the Greyhound could bring on-board 5 tons of cargo, the specs for the V-22 say it can carry 20,000 lb internally, well that '10' tons --- much more capable I'd think --- and take it to any ship with a landing pad to boot.

Don't start getting facts crossed up with other peoples delusions. Somebody ends up with a stroke from the high blood pressure.

Did a little checking. The payload for the V-22 was listed by Wikipedia as 20,000 lbs and the C-2 at 10,000 lbs. The two aircraft had about the same cruising speed but the C-2 had a much longer range. Of course the V-22 has AAR capability and, as you said, can land on any ship with a landing pad. So sacrifice range for versatility. Unless you have a COD with intercontinental range the fleet is going to have to sail close to a friendly base that has the supplies it needs anyway.

[Old Wombat]

V-22 COD variant sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

[elmayerle]

A V-22 COD also helps if you've got carriers without arresting gear; your only other option, then, is a much slower CH-47 or something equivalent.

[Volkodav]

The usual bunch of 'nay-sayers' are having a field day with this  --

I sometimes I wonder if they have different versions of their arguments ready so they can knock whichever option is successful.  This is from a bloke who has criticised many defence procurements in his time. 

[Silver Fox]

I wonder why I couldn't find those images when searching?

Kind of a minimalist engine can, but it is a can and an engine goes inside... then it all goes inside an Osprey.

The V-22 as a support for fleet ops is a good choice. I've often wondered why it wasn't in place for VERTREP. I can see lots of potential for supporting dispersed forces. I wonder if they will start building flightdecks on AORs to handle the extra weight? Logistics are critical, anything that improves the flow is a good thing.

[Kerick]

Those Iowa class BB whiffs with the added flight decks can now start sport'n HV-22s.

[elmayerle]

Those Iowa class BB whiffs with the added flight decks can now start sport'n HV-22s.

Hmm, perhaps an Osprey C.1 operating off a similar conversion of H.M.S. Vanguard, assuming she was kept in reserves longer?  Perhaps in support of her Harrier FGR.11 squadron and others onboard?

[Kerick]

Those Iowa class BB whiffs with the added flight decks can now start sport'n HV-22s.

Hmm, perhaps an Osprey C.1 operating off a similar conversion of H.M.S. Vanguard, assuming she was kept in reserves longer?  Perhaps in support of her Harrier FGR.11 squadron and others onboard?

Removal of the rearmost turret would leave plenty of room. Who makes a Vanguard kit?

[elmayerle]

Those Iowa class BB whiffs with the added flight decks can now start sport'n HV-22s.

Hmm, perhaps an Osprey C.1 operating off a similar conversion of H.M.S. Vanguard, assuming she was kept in reserves longer?  Perhaps in support of her Harrier FGR.11 squadron and others onboard?

Removal of the rearmost turret would leave plenty of room. Who makes a Vanguard kit?

If memory serves me correctly, she was a derivative of the design for H.M.S. Lion and I've seen drawings of a studied battlecarrier version of that design, so you'd have a starting place for this conversion of Vanguard.

(Does it seem ironic to anyone that the last British battleship built was named "Vanguard"?)

[taiidantomcat]

The usual bunch of 'nay-sayers' are having a field day with this  --

I sometimes I wonder if they have different versions of their arguments ready so they can knock whichever option is successful.  This is from a bloke who has criticised many defence procurements in his time. 

yup.

I sometimes think people confuse real issues and actual trade offs and decisions with minor gripes that are not deal breakers. I noticed that seems to be the thing a lot of these articles lock onto. Much like a successful marriage, work and adjustments and annoyances are not deal breakers, I wouldn't divorce my wife because she chews her food too loud when she has fried chicken. people have a hard time differentiating between a serious concern and some detail that needs to be accounted for, but the all other aircraft have those too. There are no perfect weapons.

Some of these gripes are just relics leftover from times before a lot of the complainers were even born, I'm still seeing complaints about the F-15 being "too complex" its amazing.

Anywho, I am hoping this is the start of more US Navy use, from ASW to SAR, even Naval Special Warfare. Vertical lift is never short of work.

[jcf]

What I love are the 'F-18 good, F-35 bad' arguments that read exactly like the old 'F-4/F-14/A-7/A-6 good, F-18 bad' arguments
of over thirty years ago.
 

... and I do mean 'exactly'.   

[taiidantomcat]

What I love are the 'F-18 good, F-35 bad' arguments that read exactly like the old 'F-4/F-14/A-7/A-6 good, F-18 bad' arguments
of over thirty years ago.
 

... and I do mean 'exactly'.   

yes sir.  :) and yes verbatim.

[Volkodav]

What I love are the 'F-18 good, F-35 bad' arguments that read exactly like the old 'F-4/F-14/A-7/A-6 good, F-18 bad' arguments
of over thirty years ago.
 

... and I do mean 'exactly'.   

The word that comes to mind is conservatism in the literal rather than political sense, or maybe inertia might be a better word.

[Alvis 3.1]

Some people dislike change, some run toward it. Both are wrong, and right, depending on the outcome. If I had been a raging fanboy of the A-12, well, I'd feel kind of dumb now...or possibly in denial.   

Alvis 3.1

[Volkodav]

So what was wrong with the A-12 

[elmayerle]

Which "A-12"?  The "article" that evolved into the SR-71 or the aborted all-weather attack aircraft originally known as ATA?

[Volkodav]

Which "A-12"?  The "article" that evolved into the SR-71 or the aborted all-weather attack aircraft originally known as ATA?

I assume Alvis mean the Flying Dorito, because that's the one I meant and the CIA bird was actually a success rather than being cancelled before its first flight.  Not the place to discuss but I have wondered how close it was to actually working and if it could have been made a success, there are a whole raft of whiffs in the projects cancelled by Cheney then Rummy when he got his turn as SECDEF.

[elmayerle]

Getting back to tilt-rotor aircraft, how about an AEW variant with an antenna like that of the Ka-31, but using an AESA radar with a host of transmit/receive modules in the array.

[GTX_Admin]

Yes, something like this:

[kitnut617]

I've been working (off-&-on) on a similar concept, except the radome will be streamlined.  The idea is it will swing down on a pylon and that there's no rear ramp

[elmayerle]

Yes, something like this:

That does look more sensible that just under the fuselage and would simplify stowage and maintenance.

[M.A.D]

Early AEW Tiltrotor proposal:

This is one of the roles/missions/concepts which sadly has not come to being 
Something I've never understood, but something I have always included in my personal long-term project 'The System' since the JVX program started !!

M.A.D