Author Topic: Redemption – Military planes you were wrong about in hindsight!  (Read 21856 times)

Offline M.A.D

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Re: Redemption – Military planes you were wrong about in hindsight!
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2020, 10:35:31 AM »
One things for certain, I will go to my grave wondering, contemplating who's doctrine would have worked had the Cold War gone 'hot' and peer adversaries like NATO and the Warsaw Pact had of gone full out in a no bars hold war.
The are so many doctrinal requirements that shaped the Soviets Operational Requirements for given weapons/weapons systems that were simply dismissed, or dare I say arrogantly denounced or critisised by the West - 'Quality vs Quantity' for example. Or that notion that Soviet doctrine was perceived through the eyes of a Western mindset - hence often a biased outcome or even far fetched exaggeration, as a consequence ensured......

MAD
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 10:27:03 AM by M.A.D »

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Redemption – Military planes you were wrong about in hindsight!
« Reply #51 on: October 20, 2020, 02:22:41 AM »
Dare I say that "had the Cold War gone 'hot' and peer adversaries like NATO and the Warsaw Pact had of gone full out in a no bars hold war", it wouldn't have really mattered since nuclear conflagration would have resulted.   Now, if you take the nukes out of the equation then things get interesting.
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Offline M.A.D

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Re: Redemption – Military planes you were wrong about in hindsight!
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2023, 08:55:06 PM »
Dare I say that "had the Cold War gone 'hot' and peer adversaries like NATO and the Warsaw Pact had of gone full out in a no bars hold war", it wouldn't have really mattered since nuclear conflagration would have resulted.   Now, if you take the nukes out of the equation then things get interesting.

So sorry for delayed reply GTX

Yes, there's definitely food for thought there 🤔

MAD

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Redemption – Military planes you were wrong about in hindsight!
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2023, 02:26:11 AM »
At the risk of going down a rabbit hole, dare I say we are seeing some of the outcomes of that comparison in Ukraine, especially given some of the vintages of the weapons on each side.  Mind you, I suspect a full on Cold War gone hot scenario in Central Europe that had reached a semi-stalemate like the currentUkraine conflict would have resulted in Soviet use of NBC weapons ... something we hope won't happen in Ukraine.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline M.A.D

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Re: Redemption – Military planes you were wrong about in hindsight!
« Reply #54 on: April 23, 2023, 08:05:33 PM »
At the risk of going down a rabbit hole, dare I say we are seeing some of the outcomes of that comparison in Ukraine, especially given some of the vintages of the weapons on each side.  Mind you, I suspect a full on Cold War gone hot scenario in Central Europe that had reached a semi-stalemate like the currentUkraine conflict would have resulted in Soviet use of NBC weapons ... something we hope won't happen in Ukraine.

Why would it have to be the Soviet's mate, given the demonstrated shortage of weapons/ammo of the U.S./NATO.

MAD

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Redemption – Military planes you were wrong about in hindsight!
« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2023, 08:35:59 PM »
At the risk of going down a rabbit hole, dare I say we are seeing some of the outcomes of that comparison in Ukraine, especially given some of the vintages of the weapons on each side.  Mind you, I suspect a full on Cold War gone hot scenario in Central Europe that had reached a semi-stalemate like the currentUkraine conflict would have resulted in Soviet use of NBC weapons ... something we hope won't happen in Ukraine.

Why would it have to be the Soviet's mate, given the demonstrated shortage of weapons/ammo of the U.S./NATO.

MAD

Largely, it's because of the immense wind-down of military forces in the West since the end of the Cold War to a tiny fraction of what they were in 1990(+/-).

Then there's the Western belief that a war with a near-peer was never going to happen post the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact (or, at least, not without a long lead-in), & the inevitable "fighting the last war" syndrome which, despite being aware of it, all militaries & governments seem to fall victim to; & the most recent wars we've fought have been quick, decisive invasions followed by long drawn-out guerilla conflicts with the West (having the technological superiority) vs local insurgencies (using effective low-tech solutions). Which has led to the "the tank is dead" mythos & the idea that low numbers of small, precision weapons are superior to large numbers of field artillery, AFV's & properly trained combat troops.

Then there's the idea that, should the unlikely event of a major near-peer war break out, it would go from conventional to nuclear long before stocks of munitions became an issue.

The Soviets & Russians have long held the strategic importance of stockpiling old equipment, so that as reservists & old conscripts are called back into service they can use equipment that they are/were familiar with, thus reducing re-training times.

The Americans do this to some small extent with aircraft but, overall, Western nations don't consider calling up ex-service personnel from 10, 15, 20 or even 30 years ago as a standard contingency plan, so all that old equipment is sold on to 3rd tier nations or scrapped.
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