Modelling > Engineering Dept.

Leopard 1s for Ukraine

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GTX_Admin:

--- Quote from: apophenia on June 13, 2023, 05:05:46 AM ---I've found it hard to pin down the exact models of the Leopard 1s slated for Ukraine.

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Reportedly Leopard 1A5s whereas the Canadian Leopard C1s were equivalent to Leopard 1A3s

GTX_Admin:

--- Quote from: apophenia on June 13, 2023, 05:10:05 AM ---I note that some journalists are puzzling over why the older Leopard 1A5s would be sent to Ukraine at all. Tankers will already know the answer - the Leo 1s' rifled gun can fire spin-stabilised HESH rounds (AFAIK, there is no 120x570mm NATO HESH round). This explains why, in Afghanistan, when superior Leopard 2A6Ms arrived, Leopard C2s remained in action. A C2 could pop an L35 HESH round at a mud brick wall and the 2A6M could not.

Of course, an L35A2 HESH round is going to be just as effective against any concrete emplacements the RU create or adapt in Ukraine. And the beauty from the ZSU side is that angle-of-attack and strike velocity are largely irrelevant. L35 rounds only hold 2.1 kg of RDX. But HESH does its damage to reinforced concrete by blast, spalling, and shock wave effect. And, of course, both blast and fragmentation are also going to have "secondary anti-personnel effects" for anyone unlucky enough to be exposed.

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Of course, it could also be interesting if someone did a Leopard 1A6 style conversion with modified with additional armour on the turret and equipped with a 120 mm L/44 gun:

apophenia:

--- Quote from: GTX_Admin on June 14, 2023, 03:04:40 AM ---Of course, it could also be interesting if someone did a Leopard 1A6 style conversion with modified with additional armour on the turret and equipped with a 120 mm L/44 gun:

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It would indeed  :smiley:

A few years back, Ukraine's state-owned Morozov Design Bureau (KMDB) in Kharkiv was offering an L/50 smooth-bore gun firing NATO 120 mm rounds (as well as Ukrainian-made ATGMs). That KBM2 gun was used in Morozov's T-55AGM upgrade proposal (and in a Polish PT-16 prototype?). That makes it sound like the KBM2 gun might actually fit into a Leopard 1 turret without major mods.

I not sure how much, if anything, remains of those Kharkiv works. And there may be other issues to contend with.

Compared with the Leo's original L7A3/'A5, this Ukrainian smoothbore would be longer (6.00 m versus 5.55 m) and heavier (2,630 kg vs 1,282 kg) - and with a 6 metre barrel, with much of that out in front of suspension support. Still that KBM2 weighs 687 kg less that a complete Rh 120 gun system.

FWIW, the KBM2 used a modified 125 mm 2A46M breech mechanism and was intended for a bustle autoloader. AFAIK, the gun was originally conceived of as an unsuccessful Morozov entry into a Turkish MBT upgrade contest. I'm not sure if gun development continued long after that.

M.A.D:
It's only my thought, but I think this Russian-Ukraine Conflict has reiterates to me as to an additional reason as to why the Soviets/Russians have doctrinally kept their MBT designs to a spacific weight margin. Where as I always excepted the Western narrative that Soviet and as a consequence Russian MBT were small/lighter due to scale of economy, so that they could build vast numbers (quantity vs quality) as exemplified by the said amount of Leo2 getting bogged hull deep in the mud of the fertile Ukraine. I'm picturing the smaller, lighter and less ground pressure exerting Leo1 faring better. After all, where as in the West, we have a tendency to remember all the sexy stuff about the Eastern Front during WW2, the Russians have never forgotten the inhospitable environment of their own country....
On top of this is also the reality that as much as many have made issue of the Leo1 being armed with 'an obsolete L7 105mm gun', it's acknowledged that there are reasonably few tank on tank engagements, instead the MBT in theatre are more employed in the direct and indirect gun fire support or from what I can see, plain harassing fire.

Regards
Pioneer

GTX_Admin:
Ukrainian Leopard 1s in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZNW_UkAd6g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6uuZyyMHks

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