Author Topic: British "P" Markings  (Read 6698 times)

Offline elmayerle

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British "P" Markings
« on: August 25, 2013, 11:30:18 AM »
Looking for a couple "P", prototype, markings (P in a circle) for the prototype Merlin-MC.205 conversion by Rolls-Royce after the engine on a captured MC.205V failed and the RAE wanted to continue flying it.

Offline Weaver

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Re: British "P" Markings
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2013, 07:13:42 PM »
Fantasy Print Shop in the UK do various sheets of them in different sizes:

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Fantasy-Printshop-Decals/_i.html?rt=nc&_sid=47761971&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1513&_pgn=1

The sheets arn't expensive but I don't know what the postage would be like to the states. I've got one of the sheets (can't remember which one), so I could send you a couple if I've got the size you need.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
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Offline Chris

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Re: British "P" Markings
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2013, 09:39:34 PM »
Evan

I've a couple in the stash you can have. PM me your address and I'll get them in the post. Might take a few days from the UK though

Chris

Offline kitnut617

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Re: British "P" Markings
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2013, 10:55:27 PM »
If Chris can't help Evan, I can too.  What size circle were you looking for, there's quite a few different ones on the sheet I have which is done by Joe's Decals (Joe's Models out of New Jersey)

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: British "P" Markings
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 02:25:46 AM »
BTW... were the P markings always in the same colour or was there variety according to what colour the aircraft was (or something)?

Offline kitnut617

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Re: British "P" Markings
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2013, 03:28:15 AM »
The yellow colour was the same as the yellow ring that appeared around the RAF roundels, but also the whole of the bottom of the aircraft was painted the same yellow too.

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
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Re: British "P" Markings
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2013, 07:26:57 AM »
Okay, found mine:

1. Fantasy Printshop FP808 : 1/72nd scale 36 inch and 30 inch Ps.

These are about 11mm and 9mm respectively. They are a rich "gold" yellow, and have two different fonts: one is thin with a semi-circular "loop" to the P, the other is thicker and has a square-with-radiused-corners style. There are 4 x 36" (two in each font) and 6 x 30" (four in "circle" font, two in "square" font)


2. Pavla 1/72nd Gloster G.40 sheet.

These are leftovers from my Gloster Goblin build. There are two 36" Ps, marginally smaller than the FP ones, and in a much lighter lemon-yellow colour. The font is like the FP "Square" font but the proportions are different, with the "loop" being more of a rectangle than a square.

You're more than welcome to a pair of any of them. 

"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline elmayerle

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Re: British "P" Markings
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2013, 09:14:33 AM »
Before I go charging ahead, what size would work with a 1/72 single-engined fighter?  What size was used on, say Mustangs or Spitfire testbeds?

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: British "P" Markings
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2013, 03:39:43 PM »
Googling for "Tempest prototype" finds some photos. They are not all the same, but generally smaller than the fuselage roundel.
A spiteful proto photo shows the P clearly smaller than the roundel
A DH Hornet proto has a circle about the size of the roundel, and the P almost fills the circle.

Looks like there was some variety in sizes and styles.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: British "P" Markings
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2013, 06:06:28 PM »
Before I go charging ahead, what size would work with a 1/72 single-engined fighter?  What size was used on, say Mustangs or Spitfire testbeds?

Here's my Mustang Mk.X and Martin Baker MB5 to gauge something by Evan

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
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Re: British "P" Markings
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2013, 07:40:16 PM »
My impression from most of the pics I've seen is that the P was generally the biggest one that would fit on the plane, usually the same size as the roundel. However I'm not the expert on markings and I imagine there was some kind of regulation for it, however imperfectly applied.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
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Re: British "P" Markings
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2013, 08:56:38 PM »
The 'P' circle on my two models match what is seen in photos Harold

Offline Weaver

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Re: British "P" Markings
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2013, 09:37:18 PM »
The 'P' circle on my two models match what is seen in photos Harold

Indeed they do. The MB.5 seems to conform to what I said (biggest that would fit) and the Mustang seems to be an exception to the general trend.

By and large, you see a 36" or 30" P on the rear fuselage, behind and right next to the roundel. As I understand it, the variations in line width and font are due to the fact that the regulations for the P were only written, with no official illustrations to back them up.

Looking at the MC.205 in profile, the rear fuselage tapers quite a lot, so I'd suggest a 36" roundel just behind the cockpit (a bit further forwards than the Italian roundel) and a 30" P immediately behind it.

EDIT -  just remembered, I've GOT a 1/72nd Mc.205 - hang on a minute..... ;)
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: British "P" Markings
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2013, 10:02:44 PM »
Here we go!  :)



The decals are yellow on a light blue backing which doesn't photograph well, so I've photocopied them and stuck them to the model with blu-tack. The big one is 36" and the small one is 30", both are the thick "square" font, because it shows up better.

My twopenn'th? Well since the rear fuselage on this aircraft is quite short, I'd say there arn't many options really. A 36" roundel with a 30" P behind it seems just about right. A 36" P would wrap around the top and bottom too much, so the circle would be "broken" from the POV of an observer to the side.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: British "P" Markings
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2013, 12:29:55 AM »
... and you still nee space for a serial number too, I think.

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
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Re: British "P" Markings
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2013, 02:49:25 AM »
... and you still nee space for a serial number too, I think.


Real MC.205s had the serial in small letters just under the leading edge of the tailplane. The P and roundel in my pic could go a little further forward too.

Just found this profile of an MC.205 captured by the RAAF. I presume that's a 30" roundel:



From here: http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/908/81/0
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline elmayerle

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Re: British "P" Markings
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2013, 07:50:29 AM »
Okay, I think that settles it, I'll be wanting a pair of 30" "Circle-P" markings (as opposed to "Circle K" which is a competitor to 7-11).

Weaver, PM inbound.