Author Topic: F-5 Freedom Fighter, Tiger, F-20 Tigershark, X-29 concepts and proposals ...  (Read 121935 times)

Offline ChernayaAkula

  • Was left standing in front when everyone else took one step back...
  • Global Moderator
  • Putting the "pro" in procrastination since...?
<...> Still, with the MLG trunnions where they are, I'm not sure how large a store you could carry on the centerline.

Yeah, that needs to be taken into consideration. I figure an ECM pod wouldn't be too much of a problem. A drop tank might be more difficult. Maybe it would need to be waisted/tapered at some point to allow the gear to pass. I think some trainer uses a tapered drop tank. I want to say it's the BAe Hawk, but I'm not sure.
Cheers,
Moritz

"The appropriate response to reality is to go insane!"

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
<...> Still, with the MLG trunnions where they are, I'm not sure how large a store you could carry on the centerline.

Yeah, that needs to be taken into consideration. I figure an ECM pod wouldn't be too much of a problem. A drop tank might be more difficult. Maybe it would need to be waisted/tapered at some point to allow the gear to pass. I think some trainer uses a tapered drop tank. I want to say it's the BAe Hawk, but I'm not sure.
If memory serves me correctly, take a look at the tanks under the wings of the F11F-1.  Too, though they are small, look at the tip tanks for the F-5.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
How about a F-20 with some of the developments of the late model F-16s?  E.g avionics spine and/or conformal fuel tanks?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
How about a F-20 with some of the developments of the late model F-16s?  E.g avionics spine and/or conformal fuel tanks?
That could get a bit problematical in some ways, given the internal structure.  If I was going to add a conformal tank, I'd work it around the centerline pylon on the underside of the aircraft, though you'd also need to stay clear of the MLG bays and doors.  You could modify the existing upper fuselage somewhat, but you've got that heat exchanger intake at the base of the vertical fin with a hydrazine bottle for the remote start system aft of it.

I still think I'd look at a larger wing to reduce the wing loading to something a bit more reasonable; keep the existing tapered planform and tip chord, but enlarge the root chord and extend the span, possibly adding another stores station under each wing.

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
The Brazilians IIRC have conformal fuel tanks on their F-5s.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
The only picture I have seen is this one:



And I am not convinced it is real.  at most, I suspect it is just a mockup.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Maybe same aircraft from different angle but looks quite real:



Another one I've seen around the web:




Offline ChernayaAkula

  • Was left standing in front when everyone else took one step back...
  • Global Moderator
  • Putting the "pro" in procrastination since...?
AFAIK, they're all photoshopped images.   :icon_crap: In rickshaw's last picture, you can see there's a bit of a problem with the IFR probe, simply vanishing where it should merge into the CFT and cast a shadow on the CFT. And there's no upper vent/bypass for the boundary layer.

Cheers,
Moritz

"The appropriate response to reality is to go insane!"

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
AFAIK, they're all photoshopped images.   :icon_crap: In rickshaw's last picture, you can see there's a bit of a problem with the IFR probe, simply vanishing where it should merge into the CFT and cast a shadow on the CFT. And there's no upper vent/bypass for the boundary layer.
I'd be inclined to agree with this.  There definitely should be a hard indication of where the refueling probe and the tank intersect.  AFAIK, you'd need to make some structural changes to mount these tanks, but it wouldn't be impossible (I am familiar with the structural changes to mount the F-16's conformal tanks); it would, however, require a complete rebuild of the fuselage from the FS284 bulkhead (aft end of the cockpit for all versions)  on aft.  You could scab it on, but that would add rather more weight than doing it cleanly and take just about as much labor.

I'd love to see something similiar schemed onto a F-20.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 05:33:55 AM by elmayerle »

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Maybe we could have an F-20C or F-20E with the larger wing and all of the other developments etc.  To allow for the necessary structural changes etc, we say that during the development of the new version there was a major redesign so as to allow for far more expansion of capability.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Maybe we could have an F-20C or F-20E with the larger wing and all of the other developments etc.  To allow for the necessary structural changes etc, we say that during the development of the new version there was a major redesign so as to allow for far more expansion of capability.
that works for me.  I'll have to see what can be developed.  Now, if I can just find some of those notes I copied....

Offline Daryl J.

  • Assures us he rarely uses model glue in dentistry
I'd love to hang a wing on Monogram's F-20 kit like we see in the very first post on page one of this thread.
And toss some resin fiddly bits here and there about it.
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
AFAIK, they're all photoshopped images.   :icon_crap: In rickshaw's last picture, you can see there's a bit of a problem with the IFR probe, simply vanishing where it should merge into the CFT and cast a shadow on the CFT. And there's no upper vent/bypass for the boundary layer.

Yep, my bad.   :-[

Sorry but a great inspiration for some whiffery!  ;D

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
I'd love to hang a wing on Monogram's F-20 kit like we see in the very first post on page one of this thread.
And toss some resin fiddly bits here and there about it.
I'd have to check on how similar a F-18 wing is; that's the first option I'd consider for the greater span wing.  Add the enlarged LERX of the navalized version in the first entry and you'd have a good start.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
I'd have to check on how similar a F-18 wing is; that's the first option I'd consider for the greater span wing. 

Look forward to your analysis
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
I can't remember if I've mentioned it here, but I have an idea for a three-seat F-5/F-20 based "fast executive transport" based on combining a T-38/F-5B forward fuselage and cockpit with a F-5F forward fuselage and cockpit, since all the forward fuselages tie into the rest of the airframe at the FS284 frame.  I'm thinking of a color scheme similar to those of the Executive Transport squadron at Dulles.  I've got a couple of the old Hawk decal sheets for their "chrome" OV-10 that I've been thinking of applying to a CV-10 in similar markings.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
I'd have to check on how similar a F-18 wing is; that's the first option I'd consider for the greater span wing. 

Look forward to your analysis
First look in 1/144 ('cause it's what was immediately available) says "Yeah, but you don't want to use the entire F-18 wing."  I'll check 1/72 next (I'd hoped to do that this past afternoon, but ended up spending it at the ER with a very sick wife).

Offline Cliffy B

  • Ship Whiffer Extraordinaire...master of Beyond Visual Range Modelling
  • Its ZOTT!!!
    • My Artwork
Would a navalized version of the X-29 been possible or would the forward swept wings caused problems?  Have ideas for one of DML's 1/144 kits...
"Radials growl, inlines purr, jets blow!"  -Anonymous

"Helos don't fly.  They vibrate so violently that the ground rejects them."  -Tom Clancy

"If all else fails, call in an air strike."  -Anonymous

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
It may have been possible.  Would really depend upon the lw speed handling characteristics I would imagine.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Would a navalized version of the X-29 been possible or would the forward swept wings caused problems?  Have ideas for one of DML's 1/144 kits...
Quite possibly.  The wing flexes to give the effect of leading edge and trailing edge flaps, that's why you need to be careful in mounting pylons on the wing.

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Forward swept wings are best for high-speed applications, with the elimination of tip stall IIRC.  I suspect their low-speed handling wouldn't be too good.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Between the canards and the flexibility of the FSW as fitted to the X-29, I think it would have a fair shot at decent carrier landings.  To improve the odds, add a vectoring axisymmetric nozzle.

overscan

  • Guest

Offline Daryl J.

  • Assures us he rarely uses model glue in dentistry
That's it.  Thanks.
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Anyone know much about the 1/48 GIIC Resin T-38 kit from Brazil?

« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 04:22:04 PM by GTX_Admin »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.