Author Topic: Jackrabbit  (Read 5744 times)

Offline upnorth

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Jackrabbit
« on: September 11, 2021, 02:20:31 AM »
January 31, 1961. Trois Rivieres, Quebec, Canada

A pillar of black smoke rose from the south bank of the St.Lawrence river, just south-west of Trois Rivieres. A single parachute drifted downward into the farmland north-east of Nicolet. A test pilot survived, a prototype jet trainer did not.

"I'd been set to fly a routine trip from the Canadair factory in Cartierville to Quebec City and back, following the river for navigation. Nothing should have gone wrong, but the program had been full of unexpected delays and obstacles. If ever there was an aircraft full of gremlins, the CL-41 was it."

So went part of the post crash interview with Canadair test pilot Ian MacTavish.

From the maiden flight, on January 13 of 1960, the Canadair CL-41 jet trainer program had been plagued with inexplicable problems. In spite of losing three prototypes due to sudden loss of control during flight, all wind tunnel tests showed a stable aircraft design. All mechanical inspections showed no problems and all test pilots were healthy as horses.

Investigations into the loss of the three CL-41 prototype airframes were inconclusive. What was not inconclusive was that the program had fallen through the thin ice it was already on.

No lives had been lost, but with three prototypes lost in a year of flying and no conclusive explanation for it, the Royal Canadian Air Force had lost interest in the CL-41 as its new jet trainer aircraft.

The RCAF's next generation jet trainer would not be of domestic design.

A former Canadair employee:

"The CL-41 had been a private venture by Canadair to create an indigenous advanced jet training aircraft. As there was no tender put out, we really had to sell it to the RCAF. We failed.

We had piqued the RCAF's interest in an advanced jet trainer, but they had lost their interest in the CL-41 after the accidents.

They put out a tender not long after the CL-41 program was cancelled and we hoped that we could get a second chance at the trainer, even if it might be license built.

We got lucky."
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2021, 08:02:06 AM »
Good stuff! And colour me intrigued ... very interested to see what replaces the CL-41.  :D
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2021, 12:48:48 AM »
Indeed
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline upnorth

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2021, 05:20:09 PM »
The Competition Gathers

While the RCAF brass decided they had seen enough of the CL-41's bad luck, the logic of looking for a new generation jet trainer to supplement and possibly replace the Canadair license built T-33s was sound. The RCAF announced a competition for the new jet trainer in late summer of 1961.

The trouble was that the only truly new generation jet trainer flying at the time, other than the CL-41, in western Cold War skies was the Aermacchi MB-326 from Italy.

Other available trainers, like the Cessna T-37, Fouga Magister and BAC Jet Provost were well proven and capable but all more than half a decade older in basic design than the CL-41.

Additionally, the RCAF had specified that the new trainer be of single engine design. This effectively removed the Cessna and Fouga aircraft from contention.

The final line up of competing designs were the the Aermacchi MB-326, BAC Jet Provost and the Folland Gnat.

A former RCAF pilot who was involved in the competition:

"While the Italian jet was still in prototype and pre-production stages, several of us who had been stationed in France or West Germany in the late 1950s had seen the MB-326 demonstrator jets perform. We were impressed to say the least.

The Jet Provost variant in the competition would be the very new T.4 version that was a just a few months away from entering RAF service when the competition was announced. RCAF pilots who had flown the previous Jet Provost version, the T.3, generally spoke well of it, so we were interested to get a look at the new version.

As for the Gnat, we weren't sure what to make of it. It was fast, but the small size concerned us a bit and we knew that the aircraft was initially intended to meet a light strike fighter role that the RAF lost interest in and Folland had reworked the aircraft into a trainer in order to sell the RAF on it. The idea of a reworked and repurposed fighter rather than a from-the-ground-up trainer didn't sit well with all of us."

October 9, 1961: RCAF Station Marville, France

As all three competing trainer designs were European in origin, it was decided to host the preliminary stage of the competition at one of the RCAF's European bases. As it was likely the new trainer would see some deployment to Europe, it had to be seen how it would perform over the congested airspace of Continental Europe.

With September spent preparing Marville for the competition, the first week of October was given for the competing parties and their aircraft to arrive and give briefings on their machines. The flying started in earnest the second week of October.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 05:23:38 PM by upnorth »
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2021, 03:02:45 AM »
Oh this is very cool! I'm already anticipating Macchis in Maple Leafs :)

Are you doing images to accompany the story?
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Offline upnorth

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2021, 03:21:18 AM »
Oh this is very cool! I'm already anticipating Macchis in Maple Leafs :)

Are you doing images to accompany the story?

I'm thinking about some images. Gotta get out the drawing pens and ink and get the rust out.  :smiley:
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2021, 05:02:42 AM »
Ooh! Another Upnorth tale! Chair pulled up and coffee cup filled.



Chris
"What young man could possibly be bored
with a uniform to wear,
a fast aeroplane to fly,
and something to shoot at?"

Offline upnorth

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2021, 02:11:01 AM »
Ooh! Another Upnorth tale! Chair pulled up and coffee cup filled.


I can't promise this will be the long, drawn out tale that previous ones were. This year has been crazy on many fronts and the idea of losing the CL-41 has been bouncing around in my mind since I was still rewriting the post WWII history of Austria.
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Offline upnorth

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2021, 05:25:23 PM »
Operazione Coniglio

The initial stage of the competition at Marville had gone without a hitch for all three companies involved. While the RCAF were busy with closer assessment of the preformances of the aircraft, the three companies were making their way to Canada for the second stage.

A retired Aermacchi engineer recalls the time:

"The second stage of the competition focused primarily on cold weather performance and range. The Jet Provost had a bit less range than our 326, but it could still compete with us there. Of the Gnat, we were confident we had it roundly beaten as far as range was concerned.

Fitting the 326 out for cold weather operations proved to a be a straightforward task. We could imagine that the Jet Provost team wouldn't have too much trouble with that, but we were very sceptical that the Gnat would survive the cold weather operation aspect. The Finnish air force had experienced all sorts of problems with the Gnat almost as soon as they took in into service in 1958, part of those problems were due to the harsh operating environment in Finland.

Our 326 was doing well for itself so far and we were very optimistic. Our marketing team had created "Operazione  Coniglio" to market the aircraft specifically to Canada. In English, that translated into "Operation Rabbit". The name was chosen after our marketing team did some research and saw that the RCAF had some aircraft named after wild animals like the Chipmunk, Beaver, Otter and Caribou; they felt giving the 326 a name that fit in that pattern could only help in the competition.

To push the point home a bit further, the two aircraft we took to Canada were appropriately registered as I-JUMP and I-LEAP and had  the silhouette of a leaping rabbit painted on the fuselage just below the cockpits."
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2021, 02:44:23 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2021, 10:21:56 AM »
I was wondering where the 'Jackrabbit' subject line came from! Okay, 'Operation Bunny', it is  ;D

Watching with interest  8)
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Offline upnorth

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2021, 04:41:49 PM »
November 20, 1961: RCAF Station Namao, Alberta, Canada

The chill of a Canadian prairie winter cut sharply through the cold weather clothing of the ground crews of all three teams in the competition as they prepared their respective aircraft in the pre-dawn hours for the range testing their aircraft would endure over the course of the day.

A retired BAC team pilot recalls:

"I had flown in the RAF in World War Two and had done the bulk of my flight training on the Canadian prairies, some of it during the winter, so I had some idea what to expect going out there at this time of year. Still, it was something of a shock to the system after having been away from it for several years.

The RCAF evaluation team had set a triangular course for the teams to fly and we were briefed on it while our ground crews readied the planes.

The first leg would be from Namao to Cold Lake. We would then go from Cold Lake to Moose Jaw and spend a few hours there so that representatives from RCAF Training Command could get a good look at the aircraft and ask questions. We would then head back to Namao in the early evening.

It was a good route for the test as the second on final legs, about 555 km and 658 km respectively, were a fair test of the range of all three aircraft and the final leg would see us return to Namao at night, so there was some latitude to show some night flying abilities of the aircraft.

The only real concern about our Jet Provost at the time was the lack of cockpit pressurization. Both the MB-326 and the Gnat had pressurized cockpits while the Jet Provost Mk.4 variant we were demonstrating did not. This meant we could not fly as high as they could and make the most efficient use of our engine."

November 20, 1961: RCAF Station Cold Lake, Alberta, Canada

After a flight of approximately 225 km, all three aircraft reached Cold Lake without incident.

Cold Lake was designed to be a quick stop for technicians from the three teams who had been sent to the station ahead of the aircraft to top up fuel and do a quick visual inspection for their respective aircraft before the second leg. The aircraft were all back in the air and headed to Moose Jaw less than an hour after landing at Cold Lake.

November 20, 1961: RCAF Station Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, Canada

After a flight of over 550 kilometres, the MB-326 and Gnat arrived at Moose Jaw in quick succession with the Jet Provost arriving about 20 minutes later. The three aircraft were taxiied to a shared hangar where technicians unstrapped the pilots and set to work readying the aircraft for the final leg later in the day.

The pilot of the Gnat team recalls:

"I loved the Gnat tremendously as a flying machine, but I don't think I've ever been as happy to get out of one as I was after the Cold Lake to Moose Jaw flight or the final leg of the range competition that followed it. Happily, Moose Jaw would give us a good chance to relax between second and third legs.

All of the pilots expected they would need to do some interviews with the press and answer questions from RCAF Training Command brass, but that was all being taken care of by the various company representatives and other test pilots. All three teams had sent spare aircraft to Moose Jaw ahead of time and all three teams were set up in an adjacent hangar attentding to the public relations and marketing end of things.

I was quite glad I didn't have to face the press that day. My flight so far had been great and the aircraft performed flawlessly. However, watching the vast Canadian prairie under me left me with some serious concerns about how appropriate the Gnat might be for a country like Canada. It was the smallest of the competitiors and had the least space for survival gear if it went down in the middle of nowhere.

As it turned out, the pilot of the other Gnat developed similar concerns while flying it from Namao to Moose Jaw for the press conference."

The flying crews were escorted to a private dining area for lunch and then were taken to mingle with instructor pilots from the base for an informal question and answer session with them.

A retired RCAF instructor pilot:

"We were all very excited at Moose Jaw about the new trainer. Our excitiment was only diminished a small amount by the fact it wouldn't be domestic. A good plane is a good plane, wherever it comes from and we were looking at three good planes.

All three aircraft had things in their favour. The Jet Provost, with its side by side seating, definitely felt like a trainer first and foremost while both the MB-326 and Gnat gave more of a fighter feel.

My personal preference was for the MB-326. Sitting in the cockpit felt like getting into a newer version of the T-33 we were already flying. It felt comfortable right from the start."

November 20, 1961: RCAF Station Namao, Alberta, Canada

The three aircraft returned to their starting point as twilight was giving way to the full blackness of night. The teams would have the next 48 hours to relax and discuss the day's flying and aircraft performance. The teams that had done the press conference in Moose Jaw were due back at Namao the next morning.

Those aircraft that had been used at the press conference were to be the subjects of the icing trials later in the week.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 06:03:49 PM by upnorth »
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Offline upnorth

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2021, 08:00:07 PM »
December 4, 1961: Hawker Siddeley headquarters, Kingston upon Thames, United Kingdom

Following the range and icing tests in Canada, the three competing teams returned to Europe to break for Christmas and prepare for the final fly off scheduled for early in 1962.

The reports of the Gnat pilots had reached the executive levels of Hawker Siddeley, which had taken over Folland in 1959, and the first two weeks of December 1961 were taken up by many meetings and heated debates in the company boardrooms.

A former company executive recalls:

"The Gnat pilots who had demonstrated the aircraft in Canada had both recommended that we pull the aircraft out of the competition as they both had serious misgivings on the adequacy of the aircraft for Canada as far as range was concerned.

I could empathize with their position as I had some experience flying over the Canadian prairies myself, those could be some very big distances to cover and the Gnat had a range of just a bit over 800 kilometers. The final leg of the range test was around 660 kilometers, so the math was not difficult to see that there wouldn't be a lot of options for an aircraft with a range of less than 1,000 kilometers if things started going badly.

They also had concerns over the Gnat's small size in regards to how much survival gear might be able to be packed into it. If a Gnat went down in a remote enough area, would the  aircraft be able to carry enough supplies to keep the crew alive until rescue teams could get to them?

I didn't have any problems taking the side of the pilots and the company had plenty of other irons in the fire at the time, so it wouldn't hurt us much to pull out.

Not everyone at the company felt as I did, though.

There were those who saw the Gnat as way for the company to keep a hand in aircraft production in Canada. Avro Canada was a full subsidiary to Hawker Siddeley at the time and the cancellation of the Avro Arrow interceptor in 1959 had left the factory at Malton without a project or staff. Their idea was that, if we won the competition, we'd open up a Gnat production line there rather than close the aircraft arm of the company as some others wanted to do."

January 5, 1962: Hawker Siddeley headquarters, Kingston upon Thames, United Kingdom

Following a return to work after the Christmas and New Year break, Hawker Siddeley executives voted by a narrow margin to withdraw the Gnat from the competition.

Later that same year, Hawker Siddeley disolved Avro Canada and restructured it as Hawker Siddeley Canada. The aircraft arm of the company was closed and de Havilland Canada eventually took ownership of the former Avro Canada factory at Malton.





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Offline upnorth

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2022, 04:42:22 PM »
February 5, 1962: RCAF Station Marville, France

BAC and Aermacchi teams converged for the final fly-off at the same location as the competiton began, the RCAF Station At Marville in France.

It was an anti-climactic event, as the decision had largely made itself by that point in time. A retired BAC representative recalls:

"We knew the Jet Provost, with its lack of cockpit pressurisation, really didn't have a chance.

The T.4 version that had entered RAF service in late 1961, and was the version Canada would get, was a sound aircraft. However, the need for trainer jets that could operate at higher altitudes was being voiced by many air arms around the world and the Jet Provost would need a serious redesign to accomodate the cockpit pressurisation required for that.

What the MB-326 could deliver 'now', we could only promise for later.

What really put the MB-326 over the top, was that Aermacchi promissed a license building deal to Canada for their aircraft if it won.

All we could do was sit and watch, then shake hands with the victors."

As it was, Aermacchi was working on more than a license building deal. At the time, Canadair was a subsidiary to General Dynamics through that company's Convair division.

At the same time Aermacchi was selling the MB-326 to Canada, they were also in negotiations to purchase Canadair and make it their own subsidiary.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 04:45:08 PM by upnorth »
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Offline upnorth

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2022, 07:08:37 PM »
A former Aermacchi executive:

"There was, understandably, a great deal of concern at Canadair and General Dynamics about Aermacchi's bid to purchase Canadair. Lockheed was showing even more concern as Canadair had not only license built a version of their T-33 trainer, but they had the license to produce Lockheed's F-104 Starfighter as well.

In truth, they needn't have worried. We were prepared to respect any license building deals that were already in place at Canadair.

We knew we had a winner on our hands with the MB-326 and that there would need to be multiple assembly lines to meed the global demand we envisioned for it.

We could simply have granted a production license to Canadair, but purchasing them would give us a real foothold in the North American market for potential future aircraft construction and marketing."
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2022, 01:35:48 AM »
I was just about to ask you if there were any updates...
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline upnorth

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2022, 07:05:20 PM »
I was just about to ask you if there were any updates...

Yeah, I finally had a chance to get more written. Lot's of other stuff going on in "real life" got in the way for a bit.
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Offline upnorth

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2022, 06:04:11 PM »
August 6, 1962: Cartierville Airport, Quebec, Canada

The roar of a newly built CF-104 Starfighter filled the air as the heat from its engine exhaust disipated the morning mist around it. The pilot manipulated the throttle and the aircraft started taxiing to the end of the runway in preparation for its shakedown flight and acceptance by the RCAF.

While the world at large was gossiping about the death of Marilyn Monroe over the weekend, the buzz in the Canadair hangars was solidly on the changes that Aermacchi might bring to operations now that Canadair was officially the Italian company's subsidiary.

A former Canadair executive:

"The CF-104 line was safe, as Aermacchi had promised it would be, and we were on a hiring surge to get the personnel in place to tool up for and start building the MB-326.

In spite of Aermacchi assurances, there were some people working for us that were difficult to convince that they could carry on with their jobs as if nothing happened. I suppose some people are just that way.

The change of Ownership to Aermacchi had been finalised and we were in the process of tooling up for MB-326 production. The area of the plant that had been intended for CL-41 production would now be home to the MB-326 line.

Aermacchi had made it clear that they wanted us to produce the aircraft for a long term and for export customers as well as the RCAF. With that, we could give some assurance to anyone we hired for the MB-326, that they would have steady work for a decent period of time."

The first five MB-326 to be built by Canadair were assembled from kits provided by Aermacchi. The first of these aircraft took to the air in early November of 1962 with the other four taking their respective first flights within November and December of that year.
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2022, 01:12:49 AM »
Hmmm...I wonder what this development could mean in the longer term?

Would the CF-5 program go ahead?  If yes, would this also provide a reverse flow opportunity for CF-5s to be proposed by Aermacchi for the Aeronautica Militare in Italy?  If not, what might replace it?  Something akin to the MB.326K perhaps?

Eventually would we also see a development of the AMX offered in Canada?  Perhaps the MB-339?
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2022, 10:52:38 AM »
Good questions. On the future of the CF-5 purchase, links between Northrop and Canada seemed to have had to do with the personal relationship between Paul Hellyer (MND 1963-1967) and T.V. Jones (Northrop CEO/Chairman/President). If Hellyer remains in place in this AltHist, so too does the CF-5.

Unless ... Hellyer had briefly supported the call to license-build Spey-power F-4 Phantoms in Canada (for the CF and RN/RAF). Had that gone ahead, one can image the CAF Phantoms needing an upgrade by the mid- to late-'80s. Let's say that the old RB.168 Mk.202s are replaced by a reheated version of the RB.168 Mk.807. That, and Canadair still being owned by Aermacchi, would leave AMX International pushing at an open door in Canada  :smiley:
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Offline upnorth

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2022, 03:27:25 AM »
I'm working out the details of how to handle the CF-5 at the moment.

Some of Hellyer's other legacies with regards to the Canadian military may come in for some revision as well.
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Offline upnorth

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2022, 03:36:21 AM »
Another Iron in the Fire

By Late February of 1963, fully Canadian built MB-326s were leaving the Cartierville factory for delivery to the RCAF station at Moose Jaw and were proving very popular there among the instructor pilots who were getting trained on the type.

Not long after Aermacchi took over Canadair, they became aware of an intriguing design on their new subsidiary's drafting boards: the CL-204.

The CL-204 was a purpose designed, amphibious water bomber that was intended to be able to refill its water tanks by skimming over a body of water and using a pair of retractable scoops to take up a new load of water.

A former Aermacchi engineer:

"The moment we set eyes on the CL-204 design, we knew it would be something very useful back in Italy and other areas of the Mediterranean that were prone to fires due to prolonged hot and dry conditions. It didn't take much to convince our executives in Italy that the CL-204 should be supported as a priority project.

The design was solid and well thought out as it was. However, the design incorporated World War Two era radial engines and that did not sit well with us. We adjusted the specification to make it a turpoprop driven aircraft.

We ordered a series of prototypes, some with the proven Rolls Royce Dart engine and some with the newer, General Electric T64.

If successful, the idea was to have Canadair produce the aircraft for markets in the Americas while Aermacchi would have a production line in Italy to supply European demand."
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2022, 12:50:25 PM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2022, 12:17:26 PM »
Plot thickens ...  :D
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Offline upnorth

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2022, 02:01:22 AM »
Jackrabbit Affirmed

A mid-March 1963 morning had dawned on the RCAF Station at Moose Jaw and a quartet of MB-326s took to the air in quick succession and formed up in a diamond formation.

The aircraft moved seamlessly from diamond formation, to finger four, to echelon....

Opposing solos did mirror passes and a solo machine engaged in Lomcovak manouvers.

To those on the ground, both instructors and students, the MB-326 was the material you could make an aerobatics team from.

A former instructor pilot:

"By the time the MB-326 had been accepted into RCAF service, the powers that were had given it the CT-114 designation that the Canadair CL-41 would have received. They also tried to give it the "Tutor" name, but the "Jackrabbit" name that Aermacchi had come up with during the competition had really taken hold in the minds on many and that's the name the MB-326 would be known by in Canadain service.

The Jackrabbits

On April 1 of 1963, the RCAF's 39th birthday, the "Jackrabbits" aerobatics team was born at Moose Jaw. Initially a four aircraft team, it was quickly expanded to six aircraft.

The Jackrabbits team initially started out as a team that could represent the RCAF at shows where the Current team, the Golden Hawks, weren't scheduled to appear. However, in a very short period, shows featuring the new team were recording higher attendance numbers than those which featured the Golden Hawks.

A former Jackrabbits pilot:

"I had significant time flying the Sabre, and enjoyed every moment of it. However, by the late 1950s, the writing was clearly on the wall for the Sabre.

It felt strange to say that you could run rings around a fighter with a trainer, but that was exactly the case with the Macchi. It may have been a trainer, but it was a full generation ahead of the Sabre and acted that way. We could do things with the Macchi in a Jackrabbits show that the Golden Hawks just couldn't."

By February of 1964, the Golden Hawks were disbanded and the Jackrabbits would be the RCAF's official aerobatics team until 1967. In Canada's Centennial year, the team was renamed the Golden Centennaires.

The team was disbanded at the end of 1967.

The Canadian military would not have another aerobatics team until 1971, when the Snowbirds were established. Like the Jackrabbits and Golden Centennaires before them, the Snowbirds used the MB-326 as their mount.

Mind the Minister

April of 1963 saw the appointment of Paul Hellyer as Canada's  new Minister of National Defense. Hellyer had many new ideas for the Canadian military, not all of them popular.

Hellyer was noted to be very critical of the MB-326 in spite of the aircraft's popularity with both air and ground crews. It was well known that he received his education in aeronatical engineering in America and had good ties to Thomas V. Jones of Northrop.

It was rumored that if Hellyer had his way, the RCAF would have a fleet of Cessna T-37s and Northrop T-38s for training.

A former RCAF instructor pilot:

"When Hellyer went on the attack against the MB-326, absolutely nothing could disuade him from his disdain for the aircraft.

We offered him familiarization rides in the Macchi, all of which he flatly refused. He likely would have had the Jackrabbits team disbanded if it weren't for their popularity with airshow crowds.

He was pitching the idea of a light combat type for the RCAF. We knew we had a performer in the Macchi and it couldn't be that hard to make a weapons delivery platform out of it that could satisfy that light combat type specification.

We approached the Aermacchi and Canadair executives on the matter and they agreed that an armed version of the Macchi should be a priority."
« Last Edit: March 08, 2022, 02:05:42 AM by upnorth »
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2022, 02:37:43 AM »
July 15, 1963: Cartierville Airport, Quebec, Canada

Four MB-326s, two company demonstrators and two RCAF examples lifted off from the Cartierville runway on their way to Central and South America. Shortly after take off, they were joined by a support aircraft in the form of an RCAF C-130 Hercules.

In response to Paul Hellyer's overt dislike of the MB-326 from the start, a sales tour was deemed essential by both Canadair and Aermacchi. Securing export customers for the Canadair built version of the aircraft would make it more difficult for the minister to undermine the aircraft in the face of foreign revenue generated by it.

A former Canadair marketing executive:

"It wasn't enough that we were building the MB-326 for the RCAF, we needed export customers for it. It was the plan from the start that Canadair would be the primary provider of the aircraft to the Americas, but it took on a new level of urgency with Paul Hellyer in place as the Defense Minister. Export orders would be some level of insurance against him simply trying to cancel it.

Our target market was anyone using the Lockheed T-33, as the MB-326 could act as a more modern replacement; something the aircraft was already in the process of doing in the RCAF.

The tour lasted about a month and the aircraft generated a good amount of interest. Both Brazil and Argentina were very interested, but both wanted to license build the aircraft as both countries had domestic aircraft producers.

In the end, we had Confirmed orders from Uruguay, Paraguay, Nicaragua and Guatemala."

"Project Viper"

Even before the MB-326 sales tour of Central and South America took place, the planning of an armed variant of the aircraft had been taking place in earnest as a private venture.

Tentatively named "Viper" the aircraft had a redesigned forward fuselage to accomodate a pair of 30mm DEFA cannons. The two seat cockpit dimensions were retained, but the rear cockpit was redesigned to house an equipment module with gear specific to the light strike mission.

To maintain parts commonality with the trainer variant, the cockpit canopy was not changed. This also allowed some rearward vision for the pilot to be retained.
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2022, 03:16:16 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2022, 07:48:16 AM »
Nice! And I sense some interesting marking options coming down the pike  :smiley:
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2022, 01:06:54 AM »
Well Paraguay flew the type int he real world but I don't believe the others did:

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2022, 04:28:24 AM »
Well Paraguay flew the type int he real world but I don't believe the others did:

Right! And RW Paraguay got its EMB-326GBs from Embraer, of course. So, how does Brazil respond to Canadair pushing into 'its' South American market?
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2022, 12:40:42 PM »
Well Paraguay flew the type int he real world but I don't believe the others did:

Right! And RW Paraguay got its EMB-326GBs from Embraer, of course. So, how does Brazil respond to Canadair pushing into 'its' South American market?

Working on the details of that right now. :-)
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2022, 04:18:37 AM »
Working on the details of that right now. :-)

Excellent! No pressure  ;)
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2022, 02:48:57 AM »
September 17, 1963: Varese, Lombardy, Italy

Even before Canadair had begun pushing "Project Viper" and securing sales in South America, it had been decided that the first four prototypes of the CL-215 would be built and tested by Aermacchi at their facilities in Varese, Italy.

Priority had been put on getting one prototype each of the Rolls Royce Dart powered version and General Electric T64 powered version. The Dart powered version had been completed and taxi runs done with it by early September.

September 17 saw the first taxi runs of the T64 version completed and a small naming ceremony held for the two aircraft.

The Dart powered prototype was given the name "Dorothea" and the T64 prototype would be known as "Teresa".

A former Aermacchi executive:

"We surprised ourselves in getting the first two CL-215 prototypes finished less than a year after deciding to go ahead with the project. Mind you, Canadair had already done a lot of the design work. Mostly, we just had finer details to work out in the design by this point.

Given the situation with the MB-326 in Canada and what a priority it was to secure customers for it, we decided to take the pressure off Cartierville by starting the CL-215 prototyping and testing in Varese. We had the space available to do it and we had Lake Varese available when it was time to test the aircraft in the water.

Canadair sent their CL-215 design team to Italy to help form the Aermacchi part of the team and lead the team. The design was Canadian, so it was only fair that Canadians should be leading it."

By the end of September, both CL-215 prototypes had taken their first flights and were seen favourably by the test pilots.

A former Canadair test pilot:

"Testing the first CL-215 prototypes in Italy went quite smoothly for the most part; they both handled well and didn't hit us with any nasty little surprises.

I'd flown Dart powered aircraft before. It was a good engine and I knew what to expect from it, but aero engine technology was going ahead by leaps and bounds at the time and the Dart was an older engine as turpoprops went.

The T64 was also a good engine, nicely responsive and no particular bad habits.

The real advantage of the T64 was how much lighter it was than the Dart. The version of Dart we used was of higher horsepower than the T64 in order to offset the weight difference.

The difference in engines made "Teresa" a lighter aircraft on the controls and more fuel efficient than "Dorothea". I had a feeling "Dorothea" would be the only prototype fitted with the Dart, and I was right."

November 10, 1963: Lake Varese, Italy

Early in the morning, "Teresa" and "Dorothea" taxied into the waters of Lake Varese for the first time. Their landing gears were retracted and neither aircraft had any water leakage through the hull. The morning was occupied with taxi testing on the water and further tests for leakage. Both aircraft did very well in those tests.

After lunch, the crews returned to the aircraft and it was time to test their ability to take off and land on water.

The former Canadair test pilot continues:

"The advantages of the T64 over the Dart were made very clear when taking off from water. Even without taking on a load of water, "Dorothea" took longer to get airborne and used more fuel to do so than "Teresa". None of the test pilots were keen to try scooping water with "Dorothea" after taking off with her empty and we let the design team know that in our reports.

They still made us do water scooping tests, but it was all very academic by that point. Both aircraft could scoop and get back in the air, but "Dorothea" took a bit longer to get back up in the air and the fuel guages made clear to us that she wouldn't be able to stay in the fight as long as "Teresa" without going home for fuel.

Immediately after the scooping trials, all further testing with the Dart was cancelled and the T64 was settled on as the engine for the CL-215 from that point on.

It wasn't the end for "Dorothea" though. She was inspected and it was decided that it was worth keeping her and refitting her with T64s. In spring of 1964, she was back in the air with new engines and seemed much happier for the change."
« Last Edit: July 26, 2022, 03:04:37 AM by upnorth »
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2022, 08:47:37 AM »
Very cool!

Moving CL-215 development to Italy took me off guard as did your early move to turboprops for the waterbomber. Nice!

Especially like your use of GE T64s! Commonality with DHC-5s/CC-115s and Aeritalia G.222s  :smiley:
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Offline upnorth

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2022, 12:17:52 PM »
Very cool!

Moving CL-215 development to Italy took me off guard as did your early move to turboprops for the waterbomber. Nice!

Especially like your use of GE T64s! Commonality with DHC-5s/CC-115s and Aeritalia G.222s  :smiley:

Thanks!

The T64 commonality with the DHC-5 and G.222 was a big part of my decision to bring the engine into play.

Moving CL-215 development to Italy made sense for keeping space free at Cartierville at a critical time for the MB.326. It was also a bit of a nod to Aermacchi's heritage with seaplanes and using Lake Varese to test them.
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2022, 05:37:27 AM »
... Moving CL-215 development to Italy made sense for keeping space free at Cartierville at a critical time for the MB.326. It was also a bit of a nod to Aermacchi's heritage with seaplanes and using Lake Varese to test them.

And, of course, the Vigili del Fuoco becoming a major user of CL-215s in OTL.
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2022, 02:38:01 AM »
This thread needs some images... ;)
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2022, 05:03:00 AM »
This thread needs some images... ;)

I know, but I've been lazy to get the drawing pens out and real life tends to get in the way too. :(

Apophenia can feel free to step up and make images if he'd like.  :smiley:
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2022, 12:36:20 AM »
November 12, 1963: Cartierville, Quebec, Canada

Things were going well for Canadair on both sides of the Atlantic. The MB-326 line in Cartierville was busy making aircraft for the new customers in South and Central America while the "Project Viper" team were busy refining what would be the armed variant of the aircraft.

The success of the MB-326 sales tour put Paul Hellyer on his back foot, for a while at least, and he concerned himself with other defense related matters for the time being.

The success of the CL-215 prototypes in Italy only served to embolden the team at Cartierville further.

A former Canadair employee:

"Those were really good days to be working for Canadair, everything was coming together so well. Motivation was high in all departments and seeing the defense minister with egg on his face made everything that much better!

I was working on the MB-326 line at the time, specifically building the aircraft to fill the Nicaraguan order; not that they were any different from the other MB-326s we were making. There was a true sense of pride in building those aircraft even the ones that weren't destined for the RCAF.

As it was, I didn't stay on the MB-326 line for long after that. Shortly after the CL-215 prototypes first flew and showed their potential, I was moved over to that project due partly to my seniority and the fact that I was of Italian ancestry and could speak the language fluently. While there would eventually be a Canadian production line for the aircraft, the first production batch at least would come from Italy. The company decided to send me there to help supervise production.

There was so much to be optimistic about at the company at the time, we were on a real high."

November 15, 1963: RCAF Station Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, Canada

The ramp at RCAF Moose Jaw was full, one end to the other, with MB-326s reflecting the winter morning sun in their silver laquer paint. Among the many RCAF student and instructor pilots at the base were pilots from the first four export customers for the Canadair built version of the aircraft.

A former Guatemalan air force pilot:

"We had been in Moose Jaw since August of 1963 to learn how to fly the MB-326. I enjoyed it emensely, with the exception of the cold prairie winter, and everyone on the base and in the local community were very kind to us.

We were being trained ultimately to be instructors on the aircraft so we could go home with the knowledge to teach pilots back home how to fly them. This meant none of us were novice pilots, we all had many hours in T-33s already.

Climbing into the MB-326 felt good from the start; not too different from the T-33, but certainly newer. It was that 'The same, but different' feel.

The aircraft felt right in just about everyway and I can't think of anything I really disliked about it. I have many great memories of flying it.

Getting in to an MB-326 after flying more advanced fighter types for a while was like getting into a sports car on the weekend and hitting the highway. There was just something smooth and carefree about it."
« Last Edit: July 29, 2022, 12:41:37 AM by upnorth »
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2022, 02:56:58 AM »
Early January, 1964: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

A former Bristol executive:

"It was a shock to say the least when we received the order directly from the Minister of Defense to immediately cease production of the Viper engine for the Canadiar built MB-326 fleet. It was an outrageous overreach by the minister if I'm to be perfectly blunt.

It didn't take long for us, Canadair and the RCAF brass to fire back at the minister for an explanation; the Prime Minister got directly involved not long after.

Initially, Hellyer was evasive about his reasons. However, his decision had raised the ire of the Prime Minister and he had no choice but to answer.

As it turned out, he wanted Bristol to stop producing the Viper as he had it in mind to order the Canadian MB-326s refitted with the General Electric J85 engines that were intended for the CL-41 and have the construction carried out by Orenda. In this way, he could create jobs closer to his own constituency in Ontario.

He was showing us he could still meddle with the Canadian end of the MB-326 even if he could not quash it outright.

Happily, before January of 1964 was out, Paul Hellyer was no longer a problem for us and we merrily continued Viper production in Winnipeg."

Hellyer paid dearly for his meddling. The RCAF brass, very happy with the MB-326, demanded Hellyer be relieved of his ministerial portfolio. Top executives of Canadair and Aermacchi as well as the Trade Ministers of Canada and Italy put additional pressure on the Prime Minister to take corrective action.

The beginning of February 1964 saw a reshuffled cabinet with the defense portfolio safely out of Hellyer's hands.
 
« Last Edit: September 28, 2022, 03:00:20 AM by upnorth »
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2022, 04:19:09 AM »
Hey! I somehow missed this installment  ???

... The beginning of February 1964 saw a reshuffled cabinet with the defense portfolio safely out of Hellyer's hands.

A scenario : A now-elderly George Pearkes declines to extend his tenure as BC's Lieutenant Governor. Jack Nicholson accepts the position of 21st LG of BC and resigns his Vancouver Centre seat. To cover some of Nicholson's ministerial positions, Paul Hellyer is assigned the roles Postmaster-General and Minister for CMHC. [1]

As Lester Pearson expected of his erstwhile rival, Hellyer resigns these new positions and crosses the floor to sit as an independent. Hellyer then runs as an independent in the November 1965 general election. However, Hellyer only splits the local vote with the Liberal drop-in candidate, Charles Templeton. The inevitable result was the loss of the Trinity seat to Progressive Conservative candidate, John Brazill.

So, who does become the next MND? Léo Cadieux?  :D

_________________________________________________________

[1] An alternative concept (assuming that Pearson wants to keep Hellyer close and under his control) would be to transfer him from MND to Transport (as happened RW in September 1967).
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2022, 04:11:11 AM »
Prairie Rattlers

March 2, 1964: RCAF Station Cold Lake, Alberta, Canada
The newly installed Minister of Defense, Lucien Cardin, made a visit to RCAF Station Cold Lake one of his priorities after being moved up from the Associate Defense Minister position to replace Paul Hellyer. Hellyer was left without a portfolio after the reshuffling.

Primarily, Cardin came to see how the testing of the armed version of the MB-326 was progressing. He was well aware of Hellyer's disdain for the MB-326 and was eager to make his own assessment of it. He knew the trainer version was very popular with the crews at Moose Jaw; he would be going to Moose Jaw after his visit to Cold Lake and would be getting a ride in one.

A former RCAF test pilot:
"We were excited, but also a bit apprehensive, about the new Defense Minister. Anybody had to be better than Hellyer, at least where the MB-326 was concerned, and it was heartening for us to see the new guy paying us a visit and seeing the aircraft for himself.

We were definitely out to make the best impression on him that we could. Part of that was to give the test aircraft some nose art that played off the "Project Viper" name.

We had two aircraft for testing and we decided to name them "Prairie Rattler I" and "Prairie Rattler II" and give them slightly different nose art based on rattlesnakes. It made sense as the prairie rattlesnake is a type of viper and you can find them in some parts of the Canadian prairies.

The minister was with us for a couple of days at Cold Lake, so we got a really good chance to show him around the aircraft as well as give him a chance to see it in action over the weapons range.

Just as important as showing off the aircraft, was showing the minister our pride in the aircraft and our general esprit de corps. In showing that, naming the aircraft had been a good move as the minister rather liked the nose art.

As the minister left for Moose Jaw, we were more relaxed than we had been in some time. He seemed to like what he saw during his visit to us. We got confirmation of that after his visit to Moose Jaw and his ride in a trainer there."

As long as Lucien Cardin was Minister of Defense, the MB-326 was safe in Canada.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2022, 03:25:03 AM by upnorth »
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2022, 04:41:07 AM »
May 1, 1964: ILA airshow, Langenhagen airport, near Hanover, West Germany

A pair of Aermacchi built CL-215 water bombers, Dorothea and Teresa, finished their display with a spectacular dump of water in front of the crowd at the 1964 edition of the ILA airshow.

As the two water bombers touched down on the runway, the pilot of Prairie Rattler II positioned his aircraft for take off. Receiving clearance, he pushed the throttles to full and took the aircraft skyward for what would become one of the most talked about performances of the 1964 ILA show.

During the performance of Prairie Rattler II, a crowd was building at the joint Aermacchi - Canadair ground display to get a closer look at Prairie Rattler I and the selection of weapons it was displayed with.

A former Aermacchi marketing executive recalls:

"We were increadibly lucky with ILA 1964. We had no idea if we would have an armed version of the MB-326 to show or not until Canada got a new Minister of Defense.

Once the new minister showed his approval for the MB-326 in Canada, everything moved along swiftly and we were able to get both of the armed MB-326 prototypes to the show.

The basic MB-326 trainer had already been in service for a couple of years, so we had nothing to prove with that. However, it was a different story with the armed version of the MB-326 and the CL-215.

Happily the armed MB-326 and the CL-215 both generated a great deal of interest and orders for both types would follow soon after."

A former Canadair marketing official:

"ILA 1964 was something special. Since the reshuffling of the cabinet, everyone involved with the MB-326 in Canada had been breathing much easier.

The pilot of Prairie Rattler II was putting the aircraft through its paces like there was no tomorrow and the crowd was loving it.

I fielded a ton of questions about the armed MB-326 at the ground display. It was quite something to see the array of weapons laid out in front of Prairie Rattler I. As it turned out, many of the weapons on display would never be carried by the MB-362 in service.

The CL-215 generated just as much interest and we had firm orders from Greece and Spain for the water bombers before the ILA 1964 show was over."

Soon to be commander of the Luftwaffe, Johannes Steinhoff, was in attendance for the the MB-326 display:

"At the time, the Luftwaffe had  fleets of both the Lockheed T-33 and Fouga Magister trainers. Both were fine aircraft and well liked, but they were first generation jet trainers and something would be needed to replace them before the 1960s were out.

As I watched the flying demonstration of the armed MB-326 and got a closer look at the one in the ground displays, I already knew this aircraft would be part of the future of the Luftwaffe.

Between the ILA 1964 show and when I was made commander of the Luftwaffe in 1966, I learned everything I could about the MB-326. I made trips to both Italy and Canada to get closer looks at it and learned to fly it.

I liked it, and I made sure the Luftwaffe got it."



« Last Edit: November 20, 2022, 04:45:04 AM by upnorth »
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2022, 05:21:15 AM »
Is the armed version here a single or twin seater?
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2022, 02:45:50 PM »
Armed version is a single seater, as per the description in an earlier post. Standard MB-326 canopy kept for parts commonality, but rear cockpit stripped out and replaced with electronics and gear for armed missions.
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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2022, 02:12:06 PM »
Any chance of joint co-production with Australia?  The RAAF was quite pleased with the MB326...

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Re: Jackrabbit
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2022, 01:16:37 AM »
Any chance of joint co-production with Australia?  The RAAF was quite pleased with the MB326...

I'm mulling that over at the moment. I have a couple of ideas for the Australian angle bouncing about in my head at the moment.
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