Author Topic: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related  (Read 111356 times)

Offline Small brown dog

  • Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad.
  • Yappity woof grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #125 on: September 12, 2019, 06:21:49 PM »
I mention aerial battleships in the overview of my Alt universe time line but don’t go into much detail.  Its because of this genre of steam/diesel punk that my crap came about.  I can't live with a super lighter than air gas filled Hull so got to thinking about Nikola Tesla and others that had wild electrical levitation theories. I posted more of this somewhere but it’s not important.

Anyway, I'm thinking internally of colossal diesel electric motors/generators and accumulators to feed the power hungry lift generators and drive the electric motors for the props.  So I guess much the hull, less the superstructure is just full of diesel engines, power station grade electrical gear and seriously large amounts of diesel fuel.



So anyway, here we are in an alternative early 1942 and capital ships are still the pride of a nation. Here are the Predator class Battle cruisers: Huntress and her sister ship, Tigress, 2 hours out from the Scapa Flow sky dock and looking for trouble.

I'm not sure that the Royal Navy would approve of such flamboyant markings like I have on the Tigress but this is my alternative world and I'll hang furry dice off the rudder if I want to :)

Re looking at this I think that the whole era may well have passed by the time of the second world war so they don't sit well with me but are fascinating.
With that in mind I thought it time to kill them off:



In 1939 aerial battleships still held place of honour and the pride of a nation. There were however, growing concerns during the the 1930’s that the quantum leap in aerial electrical applications would challenge the superiority of the aerial battleship. Others considered them obsolete as a deterrent and offensive weapon by the outbreak of the Second World War.

In 1927 The Royal Navy commissioned the first of the Predator class ships, The Huntress, followed by her sister the ship, the Tigress the following year. Huntress was laid down in early 1928 and sky launched in 1930 with final fitting out taking place over much of that year.  However, although a formidable ship of her time, the technical advancements in aero electrical applications made her obsolete in terms of speed and lifting power. Amidst much governmental uproar with regard to costs both Huntress and Tigress were grounded for special refit.

The rest of the pre-war period saw both ships policing the empire and showing up at prestigious events around the world. By the Munich crisis both ships were brought to war standard and repainted in standard camouflage although the Tigress was allowed to keep her Tiger head motif on the bow. As a marauding pair both caused some concern to the Air arm of the Kriegs marine which found most of their time devoted to defensive operations around coastal installations such as U Boat pens that were a frequent target of both Royal Navy airships.

In the meantime German company Henschel were developing a radio controlled glide bomb with a rocket engine, the Henschel 293. This weapon was air dropped from a point outside the range of accurate anti-aircraft fire and flown in by an observer who was able to maintain eye contact with the missile by means of five flares fitted to the tail or a light for night operations.

Although this missile was developed for use against light or unarmoured shipping a more powerful, prototype, the Hs 293Z, was developed for use against aerial battleships. This version had a larger explosive charge and rocket motor with an additional fuel cell to give the weapon an extra “push” in the final seconds.  It was not considered to be a main hull penetrating weapon as the armour was too thick but several weak points had been identified as being potentially damaging enough to make the breaking off of attack a wise decision by the captain. Such weak points were the bridge and other command positions, the propeller nacelles and flight control surfaces.
An ideal target was the large lift generators that protrude from the hull. Although lightly armoured the electromagnetic field on mass effect acted as a deflector. However, the field is very weak at the point where the lift unit is secured to the hull but had proved almost impossible to target precisely.

Much success had been achieved in making aerial battleships break off attack with the 88mm canon armed Me 626 Donner Vogal and a highly modified version of this aircraft was chosen to carry the Hs293z. These modifications included removing the 88mm and replacing with shackles to mount the Hs293Z and a second observer/missile guide cockpit added.

The all up weight of the ME 626 in this configuration was only slightly more than the original 88mm with a full shell magazine drum but  with no need for the recoil dampening energy storage which could now be used for additional lift and thrust. Because of its original design as an artillery class canon mount it was also a very steady gun platform making it idea in the “stand off and guide in” role.

Mixed type flights were used with a 2:1 ratio in favour of the 88mm equipped ME262. Once the HS293z was released the modified ME 626 became a fast and surprisingly agile aircraft and with 2 x 20mm canon in the nose, able to take care of itself and often protect the 88mm armed versions.

On the morning of 4th April 1942 9 ME626, 3 were carrying the Hs293z, were ordered to intercept The Huntress as she hovered off shore at 4000ft firing her main battery at the Lorient U-boat pens.
The first strikes were by 88mm armed ME626 placing shots just below the bridge and causing much internal damage.  The first Hs293z drop suffered rocket motor failure and fell into the sea. The second two missile armed aircraft dropped almost simultaneously with the pre-planned aim of placing both missiles in the same location on the steering gear.

By this time Huntress was heading for cloud cover which was quite thick in places but patchy. Both missiles were tracking well when at about the half-way point the first lost radio control. The controller of the second had to make a quick course deviation in order to avoid the first and was now low and in danger of undershooting. With main fuel and guide flares almost exhausted, the controller slammed the controls over to port and fired the booster fuel cell leaving everything else to chance.

The Hs293z came in at roughly 40 degrees from below and slammed perfectly into the mounting ring just behind the starboard rear lift generator and penetrated 18” before exploding. The explosion ripped out the capacitor conduit head mounting resulting in a massive uncontrolled energy discharge powerful enough to melt the close by bulkhead.
During the 1931 Huntress refit, the additional room required for the upgraded lift generator compartment meant that the compartment was only one bulkhead away from the rear magazine. The energy discharge vaporised the bulkhead and ignited the magazine resulting in an explosion that tore the huntress apart.

684 men lost their lives that day and the tragedy was compounded 10 days later when the Tigress fell to another Hs293z strike again on a lift generator mount but this time on the bow. Tigress came down under control and most hands were able to escape in the air life boats. Tigress was doomed before the missile strike however as several very accurate 88mm strikes had damaged her steering gear, put the bridge out of action and ruptured her main fuel oil cell.

On 14th April 1942, just 10 days after the loss HMAS Huntress, The Tigress suffered a similar fate some 120 miles out to sea south off Cork, Ireland.



Although mortally wounded Tigress had descended under control and, unlike the Huntress, most of her crew escaped. Survivors who later recounted the event describe how even though she was severely damaged she was still generating lift  and came down quite steadily not hitting the water hard and, for a second or two, seemed to float before slowly disappearing below the waves.

In the early 1980’s there had been two attempts to find the wreck of the Tigress but each had failed largely because her position was plotted by means of a best guess.  Air life boats in the 1940’s had only a charged capacitor for short duration flight. Even so, as much as 100 miles could separate the launch and landing points. Crews were in shock and in fear for their lives and so not so concerned about the whereabouts of the vessel they had just escaped from. Those that would have been aware, the Captain and his first officer, were aboard the air life boat that failed to launch properly and plunged directly into the sea and was lost.
In 1989 all the available information was reevaluated and cross checked and it was found that the likely position of the Tigress was not that far distant from the second exploration of 1984 only that her likely position was more to the north.

In July of 1989 the third exploration finally got underway after unimaginable delays and equipment malfunctions. The exploration Vessel, Deep huntress, was still not fully functional when she arrived at the first search location. The generator for the ROV’s,  Explorer 1 & 2,  would not  produce peak power and so repairs were be made that took 36 hours off the available search time.

On day 3 the first side scanning radar sweep was made and 3 hours into the sweep a contact was made. Explorer 1 was launched and on the control room monitors there came into view the undeniable shape of an air life boat. This could only be the Captains air boat and so surely the Tigress must be close by as the air boat had failed almost immediately upon launch. The area was logged and the day ended on a high note of confidence in their endeavors.

The following days brought no luck and halfway through the last day of side scanning the equipment just gave up. The mood among the crew of the Deep Huntress was now at an all-time low. To have been so seemingly close but now reduced to only what amounted to searching the sea bed with a big torch was just too much to take in.

Even so, the crew were not about to pack it all in and leave. They had six hours left and so Explorer 1 was lowered and an almost painfully slow exploration of the sea bed began. Nothing but silt, rocks and small marine life broke the endless gloom on the monitors and six hours later – still nothing.

A further 20 minutes just gave more of the same and the order was given to bring up the ROV.
The operator, tired and extremely ill tempered by this time threw procedure out the window and just brought Explorer 1 about ready for surfacing and extinguished the lights as he did. In that micro second between light and darkness was there something there as the ROV spun round?

The operator called out and scrabbled for the spotlight array switches and resumed the video feed. There was nothing but a cloud of silt stirred by the violent about turn of the ROV but then as the operator reversed his path the silt began clearing and there, disappearing into the dark was the unmistakable bulk of a Predator class aerial battleship.

She was a rusting hulk but still intact and just as impressive as she was all those years ago when she ruled the skies with her sister ship. Her discovery caused quite a stir as, other than her own rotting wreck, there is not another such intact example of an aerial battleship anywhere in the world. All were scrapped upon decommission some being converted to troop carriers for a short period of time before giving way to the scrap man’s torch.

Two more dives were made on the Tigress and in the 30 odd years since her discovery there have been some crazy ideas to salvage her that even included powering up one of her remaining lift generators – apparently feasible once you get over the problems of men working on her at that depth and a million other minor inconveniences.   

The final dive, the first in 16 years, found her in an accelerated state of decay. Her port engine nacelle has now broken away as has the mast. A lift generator has also dropped from its mounting and a hug crack appeared running from the mounting ring vertically.

Sleep well Tigress






Its not that its not real but it could be that its not true.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #126 on: September 13, 2019, 03:20:50 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #127 on: September 13, 2019, 03:38:38 AM »
That's an impressive combination of story and art and, given the basic premises, quite plausible.   Using lifting units rather than lifting gas makes a lot more sense for steam-punk aerial vehicles like the battleship in War of the Worlds, Goliath.

BTW, I love the way the bow of that class reminds one of a shark's nose.  That is definitely a very aesthetic touch.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 05:56:25 AM by elmayerle »

Offline Brian da Basher

  • He has an unnatural attraction to Spats...and a growing fascination with airships!
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • Hulk smash, Brian bash
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #128 on: September 13, 2019, 06:02:43 AM »
Wicked cool steampunk vibe!
 8)
Brian da Basher

Offline Small brown dog

  • Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad.
  • Yappity woof grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #129 on: September 13, 2019, 10:33:51 PM »
Thanks guys.
I've not done much with concept although I have got two projects started. One is a second gen Dreadnought class so early WW1 era.
The other is a ... dunno really :)
Its not that its not real but it could be that its not true.

Offline tankmodeler

  • Wisely picking parts of the real universe 2 ignore
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #130 on: September 14, 2019, 01:00:50 AM »
If I may be so bold, and having thought about aerial battleships a bit in another, Cavourite, universe, the water-typical armament layout doesn't make a lot of sense for these things leaving, as your image shows, large areas under the "waterline" that are completely incapable of being defended by the airship. Any "ship" I've conceptually designed has really needed at least a couple of the main battery guns able to address targets below the horizon plus a modest number of the secondary armament able to reach there as well.

My, admittedly middling, thinking has been that yes, big enemies are unlikely to get too close without being seen, so most of the big guns can be above (where servicing them is very much easier than below) but to completely discount an enemy getting close, in clouds, say, and to allow small enemies, even destroyer size, much less fighter size, free reign below you strikes me as exceptionally unlikely.

And, while you show a Henshel early war guided missile, I can just as easily posit a much earlier, more simply guided or stabilised aerial torpedo, much along the same lines as regular water torpedoes, that would have to be dealt with from below by a capital ship.

Plus, given the physics of ballistics, the airship that is operating the highest will have a significant advantage, in both range and impact kinetic energy, over any adversary at lower altitude. By this thinking, in fact, it would suggest that an aerial capital ship would fight as high as possible and that their design should have _most_ of their small armament on the underside along with one or two main gun turrets, with the other main gun turrets and some smaller weapons arrayed on the upper deck such that they can shoot directly not just upwards and horizontally, but at some reasonable angle downwards, say 30 deg, to permit direct fire against targets that are trying to maneuver below you. You end up with a turret looking not so much like an old battleship turret, but more like a bomber's front or rear turret with their greater fields of fire. Except with 12" guns, 15" of armour and a crew of 60...

 ;D ;)

Paul

Paul

Offline Small brown dog

  • Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad.
  • Yappity woof grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #131 on: September 14, 2019, 05:20:33 PM »
If I may be so bold, and having thought about aerial battleships a bit in another, Cavourite, universe...

Paul

Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad. The whole concept is crazy but they are so cool - bit like mechs which although I have done one I find to be just too impossible especially for the pre digital age.

My biggest headache is wondering and visualising how they might have developed or mutated in to some kind of smaller hybrid of aerial battleship/large bomber aircraft but everything I have tried I don't like. but I will get there.

The armament layout is of course absolutely daft and then there is the limiting height problem unless the whole damn thing is going to be pressurised which then leads you back to the fact your main armament is pointing in all the wrong directions.

The Guided weapon was modelled some time later on a whim with no real use until I thought of the story so there is no big thinking about its use here. Interested in your "earlier, more simply guided or stabilised aerial torpedo" I assume a liquid or solid state rocket but what about the more simple guidance system?

The physics and ballistics are thoughts that are all valid but they have to be thrown out the window really because when all is said and done you are applying them to a flying battleship ;)

Really love getting this sort of feed back  - thanks Paul :)
Its not that its not real but it could be that its not true.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #132 on: September 15, 2019, 01:39:50 AM »
Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad.

 :smiley: ;D
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Kerick

  • Reportedly finished with a stripper...
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #133 on: September 15, 2019, 07:34:08 AM »
If I may be so bold, and having thought about aerial battleships a bit in another, Cavourite, universe...

Paul

Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad. The whole concept is crazy but they are so cool - bit like mechs which although I have done one I find to be just too impossible especially for the pre digital age.

My biggest headache is wondering and visualising how they might have developed or mutated in to some kind of smaller hybrid of aerial battleship/large bomber aircraft but everything I have tried I don't like. but I will get there.

The armament layout is of course absolutely daft and then there is the limiting height problem unless the whole damn thing is going to be pressurised which then leads you back to the fact your main armament is pointing in all the wrong directions.

The Guided weapon was modelled some time later on a whim with no real use until I thought of the story so there is no big thinking about its use here. Interested in your "earlier, more simply guided or stabilised aerial torpedo" I assume a liquid or solid state rocket but what about the more simple guidance system?

The physics and ballistics are thoughts that are all valid but they have to be thrown out the window really because when all is said and done you are applying them to a flying battleship ;)

Really love getting this sort of feed back  - thanks Paul :)

I always got a kick out of the airship versions of this idea with either heavy guns and superstructure or a flight deck on top of the lifting gas bags. The whole thing would flip over in a second assuming it could get off the ground. I assume Dr Tesla had this part figured out?

Offline Small brown dog

  • Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad.
  • Yappity woof grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #134 on: September 15, 2019, 05:46:29 PM »
If I may be so bold, and having thought about aerial battleships a bit in another, Cavourite, universe...

Paul


Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad. The whole concept is crazy but they are so cool - bit like mechs which although I have done one I find to be just too impossible especially for the pre digital age.

My biggest headache is wondering and visualising how they might have developed or mutated in to some kind of smaller hybrid of aerial battleship/large bomber aircraft but everything I have tried I don't like. but I will get there.

The armament layout is of course absolutely daft and then there is the limiting height problem unless the whole damn thing is going to be pressurised which then leads you back to the fact your main armament is pointing in all the wrong directions.

The Guided weapon was modelled some time later on a whim with no real use until I thought of the story so there is no big thinking about its use here. Interested in your "earlier, more simply guided or stabilised aerial torpedo" I assume a liquid or solid state rocket but what about the more simple guidance system?

The physics and ballistics are thoughts that are all valid but they have to be thrown out the window really because when all is said and done you are applying them to a flying battleship ;)

Really love getting this sort of feed back  - thanks Paul :)


I always got a kick out of the airship versions of this idea with either heavy guns and superstructure or a flight deck on top of the lifting gas bags. The whole thing would flip over in a second assuming it could get off the ground. I assume Dr Tesla had this part figured out?


Tesla is part of the story although its his protege really. It gets involved so if you are interested this may be helpful:
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=8712.0
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 06:16:26 PM by Small brown dog »
Its not that its not real but it could be that its not true.

Offline Small brown dog

  • Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad.
  • Yappity woof grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #135 on: September 15, 2019, 06:12:51 PM »
RJ Mitchel first began thinking about fighter aircraft design during the run up to the 1927 Schneider trophy event of which his S5 machine won. The issue of Air Ministry specification F20/27 prompted yet more thought on the subject and, like many of his contemporaries, he visualised a sleek single engine machine.

Unfortunately at the time Aero Electric lift was still the domain of the multi-engine format and their design and performance was fast outstripping the single engine aircraft. Although the potential for extremely high output single power plants was seen at the Schneider events, aero engines were a long way from running to almost destruction for less than an hour to that of reliability under combat conditions time and time again before refit.

Mitchell had a great many commitments at the end of the 1920’s but after the third and final win of his Schneider contest machine in 1931 he had the time to look at some of his private and in one case radical concepts. His race design experience had shown him the future in which ultimately Ion thrust would dominate and was ably demonstrated by Aero Electric Ltd with their experimental machine in 1927.

But, in the meantime, conventional propeller thrust in either tractor or pusher configuration was here to stay and for some time. Unlike his contemporaries he was not about to give in to twin engine thinking and his first fighter design, the Type 225, was not a success although he learn many lessons which mainly involved not using what was available but to push the envelope just as he had done with his racers.

It was his racers that set the pace for his thinking and he wanted the power that those brutalised and tortured engines gave for a brief moment but not for a single race but for hours and hours and under extreme conditions without failing. It would also mean better electric lift generation but he knew that companies such as Aero Electric were waiting for the next generation of power units in order to develop their own next generation.

It was time to speak to Henry Royce at T.R. and, as is the way these things sometimes happen, it was Royce that contacted him first. Tesla-Royce had amazed themselves with the output of their R type engines for Mitchell’s racers and had continued to develop them further in the background. Royce had called Mitchell to advise on the progress and to ask if he had a suitable airframe for air testing.

Mitchel advised that he had two designs but they only existed on paper and only one of which was viable at this time. He did suggest that as secrecy was the order of the day then why not make use of one of Supermarines flying boats as a test bed. They did and soon a three engine Torbay flying boat was able to shut down its two outer Napier engines and fly on the single TR unit and at a greater level speed than a standard Torbay.
Whilst this was on-going Aero Electric had perfected powerful field coil spools for use with uncoupled power units. At Supermarine the wooden mock-up that had been recently completed of the type 300 was being used for tooling and pattern design for the prototype.

The first power plants delivered to Woolston for flight trial use were two modified R type so as Mitchel and his team could iron out any flight problems whilst the Merlin Electric was in final development. The Merlin electric development story is a long tale of frustration and in some cases much animosity and it seemed to go on for an age. In reality it was a delay of 11 months after the anticipated production date.

Meanwhile the Prototype spectre, serial K5054, was performing very well but on only about two thirds of the power promised by the Merlin Electric but aerodynamically the airframe was sound and held much potential. However, during this delay Aero Electric jumped a full generation of advancement in Field Coil Spool design and Tesla Industries was delivering the next generation of T-Coils. The culmination of all this meant that by the time the Spectre prototype was ready for unveiling much of the planned advanced post pre-production development work was well ahead of schedule and into unknown territory.

As is often the case is was not all plain sailing. Once the Merlin Electric was available there were some cooling issues with both the power plant and the remote lift generators in each winglet. There were some high speed aerodynamic problems but these had been anticipated from earlier wind tunnel tests and quickly rectified.



The first Spectres entered service with 19 Squadron based at Duxford on 4th August 1940 as a conversion unit. She was radically different to what the RAF were used to and as the Battle of Britain warmed up it was thought best by Dowding to keep her back in 12 group but still close to the action whilst experience could be built up. The Spectre began equipping 11 Group squadrons on the 28h August 1940 just as the situation was beginning to get desperate.

The first recorded Spectre kill was on August 31st when No.6 Squadron took on the high cover of a German raid consisting of BF219. The Luftwaffe high command totally dismissed its existence as it flew in the face of their own intelligence that was adamant that the RAF were desperate and down to their last handful of Hawker Hounds.

As September rolled on the Luftwaffe changed tactics and by the end of October it was pretty clear that there was not going to be an invasion attempt that year. The RAF had held off the might of a superior force and just as the tide was about to change the Spectre made its entrance. There is no doubt that the Spectre was a formidable fighting aircraft to unleash upon an enemy already beginning to show signs of stress but the adulation and glory afforded it at the detriment to that deserved by the Hawker Hound for the total period of the battle was purely the luck of circumstance.

If  the Spectre had not have entered service until early the following year as did the BF219 replacement then the Battle of Britain would have had the same ending. But, in late August when the situation looked darkest, a new sleek shape could be seen in the skies. It was an exciting shape, a shape of a future that promised peace and it was seen just as the tide was turning.

The debate about the Hound versus the Spectre is beyond the scope of this history but suffice it to say that up until the 31st August the Hound was doing pretty well.



The Supermarine Spectre went on to be one of the most successful and recognised fighter aeroplanes of all time. Unfortunately its creator did not live to see the full potential of his design. Mitchell died of bowel cancer on 4th April 1939 just after the Spectre had completed her pre production trials and was cleared for full production. After the war it was more widely publicised that as good as the Spectre turned out to be it was not what Mitchell really wanted to do but the story of the Supermarine Spirit is related elsewhere on this website.

The Spectre 1a was quickly superseded by the MK2 in early 1941 which used the uprated and more reliable Merlin Electric 200 with diaphragm carburettor. However, this was just a stop gap as the the promise of the Merlin Electric 250 as far back as June 1940 had a draft design ready and waiting. This version, the MKV, began joining squadrons in late June of 1941. The MKV was very similar to the MK2 but used a 4 bladed  constant speed propeller and had slightly larger LG heat sinks.

The first major redesign resulted in the what is considered to be the best of Spectre variants: The MK9.
This was the next planned version but was very much hurried into production as a reaction to the formidable Focke Wulf 390 Dolch which was first encountered in the Autumn of 1943. Tesla-Royce were now forging ahead with the development of the Merlin Electric and had a two stage supercharged version, the Merlin-Electric 350, ready. The new engine was longer than previous versions and modifications to the Spectre airframe were required in order to accommodate it along with strengthening of tail and winglet surfaces. The hurried initial MK9 production batch lacked any of the refinements of the later MK9b but was a potent fighting aeroplane with a significant performance increase over its predecessors particularly at altitude.

The MK9b is instantly recognisable by the contra rotating propeller assembly that soaked up more of the engines output but more effectively gave better ground and flight handling as the torque from the Merlin Electric 350 was, in the words of one test pilot, “pant filling”. That description could also be used, along with “bloody suicidal” as V1 killer pilot Flight Lieutenant Paul Rogers recounts. Rogers was one of many Spectre 9 pilots who when out of ammunition would use the aircrafts lift generator to topple V1 flying bombs in the Autumn of 1944. Even in the low dense air the Spectre 9 was capable of 400MPH although at that speed and height she was, again in the words of FLT Rogers “not quite as fast as her fuel gauge – you had to get in quick especially if you had been stooging about for a while and get the job done “.



The above main variants relates just a brief history of the Spectre Without  going into to much detail or mention of the PR, high altitude or naval versions each of which has a  history making tale to tell. However, any history of the type has to make mention even if briefly of  Joe Smith and the rest of the Supermarine team that  constantly kept the pace of the Spectres development inline with the ever demanding changes of the air war and then went on to produce the world beating Spirit.

Its not that its not real but it could be that its not true.

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #136 on: September 15, 2019, 09:00:30 PM »
A simple fix for "Why no guns below?" is the lift generators; the lift effect affects the trajectories of weapons fired within their field & makes aiming them impossible & the weapons, therefore, useless when placed "under" the ship.
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #137 on: September 15, 2019, 09:02:44 PM »
I'd love this in kit form! :-* 8)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Small brown dog

  • Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad.
  • Yappity woof grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #138 on: September 15, 2019, 09:17:35 PM »
A simple fix for "Why no guns below?" is the lift generators; the lift effect affects the trajectories of weapons fired within their field & makes aiming them impossible & the weapons, therefore, useless when placed "under" the ship.

Yes, could be some ballistic shielding effect.
I muck about with that idea elsewhere but keep the tech in its infancy  .. it fails a lot ;)
Its not that its not real but it could be that its not true.

Offline Small brown dog

  • Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad.
  • Yappity woof grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #139 on: September 15, 2019, 09:20:55 PM »
I'd love this in kit form! :-* 8)

Thats been said before along with the Hound MK1 ... maybe one day ;)
Its not that its not real but it could be that its not true.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #140 on: September 16, 2019, 01:23:39 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #141 on: September 16, 2019, 05:01:11 AM »
Beautiful design, art, and story!!  You have a talent, sir.

Offline Small brown dog

  • Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad.
  • Yappity woof grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #142 on: September 16, 2019, 05:13:41 PM »
Beautiful design, art, and story!!  You have a talent, sir.

I appreciate that that  - thanks.
Problem is I'm kind of lacking inspiration at the moment.
Its not that its not real but it could be that its not true.

Online apophenia

  • Perversely enjoys removing backgrounds.
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #143 on: September 18, 2019, 06:03:09 AM »
Loved your Spectre the first time I it  :-*  But those 'primer' profile sideviews have me thinking bad, bad, thoughts  ;D
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #144 on: September 19, 2019, 01:14:45 AM »
I would love to see a Griffon engined equivalent...and some of the German opposition.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline perttime

  • The man has produced a Finnish Napier Heston Fighter...need we say more?
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #145 on: September 19, 2019, 01:46:45 AM »
I'd love this in kit form! :-* 8)

Thats been said before along with the Hound MK1 ... maybe one day ;)
It is done in 3D. Right? There's probably ways to 3D print it.

Offline Small brown dog

  • Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad.
  • Yappity woof grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #146 on: September 19, 2019, 02:11:05 AM »
I would love to see a Griffon engined equivalent...and some of the German opposition.


The BF319 would be the first of the contenders say what the BF109 E4 was to the Spitfire MK1a/2 but I have yet to sort that one out.
But there is the FW390 which was a bit of a shock similar to how the FW190 stirred things up.
Later Spectres could take it on in a fairly even match.



There was some delay in the development of the FW390 which lay mainly with the technical difficulties associated with working with cutting edge and, in some cases, theoretical design of which the RLM were keen to push forward. With this in mind it seems contradictory that the FW390 should be given the go ahead as in reality the aircraft is a throwback to advanced wing lift designs. Designer kurk Tank had always been keen to incorporate ballistic shielding in his designs but had been unable to produce a viable prototype owing to the immense power generation requirements.

Tank was approached by Daimler Benz and offered a working prototype of a 24 cylinder design consisting of 2 x  45 degree V coupled units small enough to fit into a fighter design but giving an outstanding power output. Tank took his private designs and reworked them around the then unnamed Daimler Benz power unit. In order to capitalise on this engines outstanding power generation the FW390 develops over 50% of its lift from the aerofoil section fuselage skirt/wing assembly. The remaining lift is generated by the same technology used for aerial battleship designs which leaves an abundance of power for shield generation.

This is still the mid 1940's and until an alternative power development source is developed there are limitations to airborne force field shielding. However, the Dolch can deploy a close skin shield capable of absorbing a typical 2 to 3 second burst from a contemporary fighter such as the Spectre. After this the shield integrity falls off rapidly and will require several minutes to fully charge, longer under battle conditions where it then relies on its speed and manoeuvrability which at this time is equal to the Spectre.

Its not that its not real but it could be that its not true.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #147 on: September 19, 2019, 02:14:44 AM »
 :smiley:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline tankmodeler

  • Wisely picking parts of the real universe 2 ignore
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #148 on: September 20, 2019, 01:06:51 AM »
Interested in your "earlier, more simply guided or stabilised aerial torpedo" I assume a liquid or solid state rocket but what about the more simple guidance system?
Solid fuel rockets would be my suggestion as they have been in existence, even in our world., for many hundreds of years and an impetus (say during the First Great Unpleasantness) to shift the development of the original Whitehead torpedo from compressed gas torpedoes against water targets towards a solid rocket "torpedo" against air targets doesn't sound too far fetched. The guidance system wouldn't have to be much more complex than that of a water torpedo: a preset mechanism, based on gyroscopes, that maintains a preset heading and, in this case, flight angle. It doesn't home (at least not initially) and can't be changed once fired, just like an old torpedo. You fire a spread, which in this case would probably be a 2D array of torpedoes rather than the waterborne 1D spread, and hope one or more hit the target, rather like buckshot from a shotgun.

Quote
Really love getting this sort of feed back  - thanks Paul :)
I love going through though processes like this. The very what-if-ness of it all actually helps me in my real world job as a design engineer. It keeps my mind open to possibilities and applies what I know to (very) different situations.

Paul

Offline Small brown dog

  • Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad.
  • Yappity woof grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #149 on: September 21, 2019, 05:36:01 PM »
Interested in your "earlier, more simply guided or stabilised aerial torpedo" I assume a liquid or solid state rocket but what about the more simple guidance system?
Solid fuel rockets would be my suggestion as they have been in existence, even in our world., for many hundreds of years and an impetus (say during the First Great Unpleasantness) to shift the development of the original Whitehead torpedo from compressed gas torpedoes against water targets towards a solid rocket "torpedo" against air targets doesn't sound too far fetched. The guidance system wouldn't have to be much more complex than that of a water torpedo: a preset mechanism, based on gyroscopes, that maintains a preset heading and, in this case, flight angle. It doesn't home (at least not initially) and can't be changed once fired, just like an old torpedo. You fire a spread, which in this case would probably be a 2D array of torpedoes rather than the waterborne 1D spread, and hope one or more hit the target, rather like buckshot from a shotgun.

Quote
Really love getting this sort of feed back  - thanks Paul :)
I love going through though processes like this. The very what-if-ness of it all actually helps me in my real world job as a design engineer. It keeps my mind open to possibilities and applies what I know to (very) different situations.

Paul

OK, this has caught my imagination :)
I am thinking on a device similar in length to standard torpedo with most of the body holding the solid fuel. It will be fast which will help stability but do you see bigger stabilizers and perhaps offset to give some spin?

The firing spread seems very wasteful but would look awesome :)

Its not that its not real but it could be that its not true.