Author Topic: Winged helicopters  (Read 12483 times)

Offline ysi_maniac

  • I will die understanding not this world
Winged helicopters
« on: June 05, 2016, 04:46:29 PM »

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2016, 10:49:33 PM »
Just curious ... Have you taken your medication today? ???




 ;)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2016, 02:30:42 AM »
I'd love someone to release a kit or conversion of this in 1/48:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2016, 02:39:58 AM »
Let's not forget the winged Chinook:



More photos and details here
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2016, 02:43:18 AM »
More:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Kerick

  • Reportedly finished with a stripper...
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2016, 03:00:33 AM »
I'd love someone to release a kit or conversion of this in 1/48:




Here's what I built after seeing the above pic.


Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2016, 03:06:55 AM »
Wicked! :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2016, 03:07:08 AM »
Another:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2016, 03:10:22 AM »
And let's not forget the products of Mother Russia:


All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2016, 03:12:02 AM »
Another:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2016, 04:05:53 AM »
SA 349 winged Gazelle. Did a lot of research on winged helos in the early 1970s:





« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 04:15:34 AM by Weaver »
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2016, 04:41:15 AM »
Saunders-Roe Rotorcoach project:



"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline KiwiZac

  • The Modeller Formerly Known As K5054NZ
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2016, 11:33:44 AM »
That winged Gazelle is gorgeous! I love it!
Zac in NZ
#avgeek, modelbuilder, photographer, writer. Callsign: "HANDBAG"
https://linktr.ee/zacyates

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2016, 03:21:11 AM »
It should be quite build able too.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2016, 10:43:23 AM »
As Dizzyfugu pointed out on the corresponding thread on WIM, the Mil Mi-6 Hook was a winged helicopter that entered widespread service:



I have a feeling that wings are generally more use on big helos than small ones. The conclusion of the Gazelle test team was that the weight penalty of the wings in the hover wasn't worth the benefit in cruising flight. Now obviously that depends on the mass of the helicopter and the typical mission profile. If the wings are a significant fraction of the payload mass and the mission involves multiple take-offs, landings and hovers with short cruise stages in between (as you might expect from a Gazelle) then their conclusion makes sense. On the other hand, if the helo is big enough to have a useful payload in spite of the mass of the wings, and if it typically travels a long distance in between one take-off and one landing, then the benefit of the wings is maximised and their penalty minimised.

Here's another one that flew:



Kaman UH-2A (single-engined) Seasprite fitted with Beech Queen Air wings and a single YJ-85 turbojet on the starboard side in 1964. I presume that the asymetric thrust of the jet unloaded the tail rotor in the same way that the lift of the wings unloaded the main rotor.

From here: http://www.kaman.com/our-company/history-of-innovation

Off topic, but something else I didn't know from that page: Charles Kaman invented the Ovation guitar (the accoustic with a rounded composite back)!
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline upnorth

  • Distorting a reality near you.
  • You want maple syrup on that Macchi?
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2016, 01:02:25 PM »
Well, we can't very well have a "Winged Helicopter" thread without one of these.  :-*

Pickled Wings, A Blog for Preserved Aircraft:
http://pickledwings.com/

Beyond Prague, Traveling the Rest of the Czech Republic:
http://beyondprague.net/

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2016, 05:12:02 AM »
I suppose the question is whether stub wings used to carry stores (vs wings used simply for their lifting capability) qualify.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2016, 06:09:40 AM »
And let's not forget the products of Mother Russia:




Instead of separate propellers and rotors, imagine it with rotating transmissions and prop-rotors.  Model in 1/72 using 1/48 V-22 prop-rotors?

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2016, 03:22:56 PM »
I suppose the question is whether stub wings used to carry stores (vs wings used simply for their lifting capability) qualify.

Well since most of the stub wings (as opposed to simple weapon beams) are lift-generating aerofoils, they probably should qualify, even if their contribution is small.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline taiidantomcat

  • Plastic Origamist...and not too shabby with the painting either!
  • Full Member
  • Stylishly late...because he was reading comics
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2016, 02:08:00 AM »
I suppose the question is whether stub wings used to carry stores (vs wings used simply for their lifting capability) qualify.

I had read that the hinds wings do contribute to its lift. It was from a cold war era book, but I think it's legit
"They know you can do anything, So the question is, what don't you do?"

-David Fincher

Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2016, 03:35:28 AM »
Small photo of early VM-6 concept for what became the Mi-6 in compound form with detachable wings/turboprops for
high-speed flight.



BTW on the fire-fighting version of the Mi-6 the wings were removed to improve performance in hover, and
rolling takeoffs were standard for the regular winged Mi-6. This is not because of the weight of the wings,
rather it is an issue of area under the rotor disc, fuselage area alone reduces rotor lift efficiency, any flat
plate like a wing degrades it further.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 03:40:49 AM by jcf »
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2016, 03:49:02 AM »
BTW on the fire-fighting version of the Mi-6 the wings were removed to improve performance in hover, and
rolling takeoffs were standard for the regular winged Mi-6. This is not because of the weight of the wings, rather it is an issue of area under the rotor disc, fuselage area alone reduces rotor lift efficiency, any flat plate like a wing degrades it further.

Yep: sure I've seen proposals, and maybe even a flying prototype of a helicopter with variable incidence wings that could pivot up to 90 deg for hovering.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2016, 05:12:39 AM »
You were saying...

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2016, 05:21:36 AM »
Modern incarnation:


All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Winged helicopters
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2016, 05:24:18 AM »
Another classic:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.