Author Topic: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 26547 times)

Offline elmayerle

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Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« on: December 16, 2012, 03:15:56 AM »
I can't believe there's not a thread for this one, so...

A few ideas:
- RCAF buys F-105 for nuclear response in Europe instead of F-104.  I'm thinking a two-seater with the T-stick II spine (perhaps with an Iroquois replacing the J75).
- RAF buys two-seat Thunderchief Mk.1 as a "temporary measure" until P.1154 is ready; later develops Thunderchief Mk.2 with enlarge spine, full Martel capability (four missiles with control pod on centerline), and J75 replaced by Olympus 321R (installation already proven as one Thunderchief Mk.1X flew as testbed for TSR-2 engine development).  I'm thinking that the Mk.1X in "raspberry ripple" would look quite tasty.
- Armee de l'Air F-105s to supplement Mirage IVs?

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2012, 03:38:16 AM »
The "half F-105/ half XF-103"  Republic project is pretty cool.

NORAD might have used a few of them.   :)
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2012, 04:33:25 AM »
The "half F-105/ half XF-103"  Republic project is pretty cool.

NORAD might have used a few of them.   :)
Republic AP-75?  Yeah, that's a cool one and one I'm looking to model.  It's going to be quite the kitbash effort with bits from a couple Revell 1/72 F-105s, a 1/72 F-105F, a 1/48 F-105D for the intakes and center fuselage, and cloned F-103 wings and tail surfaces.

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2012, 04:37:32 AM »
I can't believe there's not a thread for this one, so...

A few ideas:
- RCAF buys F-105 for nuclear response in Europe instead of F-104.  I'm thinking a two-seater with the T-stick II spine (perhaps with an Iroquois replacing the J75).
- RAF buys two-seat Thunderchief Mk.1 as a "temporary measure" until P.1154 is ready; later develops Thunderchief Mk.2 with enlarge spine, full Martel capability (four missiles with control pod on centerline), and J75 replaced by Olympus 321R (installation already proven as one Thunderchief Mk.1X flew as testbed for TSR-2 engine development).  I'm thinking that the Mk.1X in "raspberry ripple" would look quite tasty.
- Armee de l'Air F-105s to supplement Mirage IVs?

Quite right.  How did I miss adding a topic on my favourite aircraft?  Glad you caught the error in time and did your part by starting the topic.  :)

The idea of an F-105 in CAF/RCAF and French AdA markings gives me a warm fuzzy feeling all over :)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

There were never enough F-105 Thunderchiefs built.  So in our 'verse the production lines continue or have been restarted again (like the Navy did with the A-5 Vigilante) and more Thunderchiefs are built with additional improvements based on the experience gained from operations during the Vietnam conflict. 

In addition to the product improvement programs that kept the F-105 current with other modern combat aircraft how about some other improvements such as:

* Wing tip mounted AAM missile rails. 
* Replacing the J75 turboject with a thrust augmented turbofan if the stock intakes will support the increased air flow demands.
* Remove the weapons bay feature and replace with a fuel cell in the same space. 
* New build aircraft and retro-fit to older aircraft with the T-Stick II equipment including all of the bells and whistles in the cockpit.
* Switch to MFD/CRT displays to make it more effective and easier to operate for the pilot and weapon systems/electronic countermeasures systems operator in delivering ordnance on targets in night and adverse weather conditions. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2012, 04:57:44 AM »
I can't believe there's not a thread for this one, so...

A few ideas:
- RCAF buys F-105 for nuclear response in Europe instead of F-104.  I'm thinking a two-seater with the T-stick II spine (perhaps with an Iroquois replacing the J75).
- RAF buys two-seat Thunderchief Mk.1 as a "temporary measure" until P.1154 is ready; later develops Thunderchief Mk.2 with enlarge spine, full Martel capability (four missiles with control pod on centerline), and J75 replaced by Olympus 321R (installation already proven as one Thunderchief Mk.1X flew as testbed for TSR-2 engine development).  I'm thinking that the Mk.1X in "raspberry ripple" would look quite tasty.
- Armee de l'Air F-105s to supplement Mirage IVs?


Quite right.  How did I miss adding a topic on my favourite aircraft?  Glad you caught the error in time and did your part by starting the topic.  :)

The idea of an F-105 in CAF/RCAF and French AdA markings gives me a warm fuzzy feeling all over :)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

There were never enough F-105 Thunderchiefs built.  So in our 'verse the production lines continue or have been restarted again (like the Navy did with the A-5 Vigilante) and more Thunderchiefs are built with additional improvements based on the experience gained from operations during the Vietnam conflict. 

In addition to the product improvement programs that kept the F-105 current with other modern combat aircraft how about some other improvements such as:

* Wing tip mounted AAM missile rails. 
* Replacing the J75 turboject with a thrust augmented turbofan if the stock intakes will support the increased air flow demands.
* Remove the weapons bay feature and replace with a fuel cell in the same space. 
* New build aircraft and retro-fit to older aircraft with the T-Stick II equipment including all of the bells and whistles in the cockpit.
* Switch to MFD/CRT displays to make it more effective and easier to operate for the pilot and weapon systems/electronic countermeasures systems operator in delivering ordnance on targets in night and adverse weather conditions.


May I satisfy your fuzzies?




These are drawn by Spinner's Strike Fighters

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Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2012, 05:36:03 AM »
Mmmmm Thuds!!  Those are spiffy looking Maple Leaf versions  8)
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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2012, 05:50:19 AM »
I can't believe there's not a thread for this one, so...

A few ideas:
- RCAF buys F-105 for nuclear response in Europe instead of F-104.  I'm thinking a two-seater with the T-stick II spine (perhaps with an Iroquois replacing the J75).
- RAF buys two-seat Thunderchief Mk.1 as a "temporary measure" until P.1154 is ready; later develops Thunderchief Mk.2 with enlarge spine, full Martel capability (four missiles with control pod on centerline), and J75 replaced by Olympus 321R (installation already proven as one Thunderchief Mk.1X flew as testbed for TSR-2 engine development).  I'm thinking that the Mk.1X in "raspberry ripple" would look quite tasty.
- Armee de l'Air F-105s to supplement Mirage IVs?
Quite right.  How did I miss adding a topic on my favourite aircraft?  Glad you caught the error in time and did your part by starting the topic.  :)

The idea of an F-105 in CAF/RCAF and French AdA markings gives me a warm fuzzy feeling all over :)
<snip>.
May I satisfy your fuzzies?
<snip>These are drawn by Spinner's Strike Fighters

A shame that Spinner's (Alf) did not want to join us here.  I miss seeing his creations. 

Would rather see the RCAF/CAF Thunderchief in the NATO camouflage scheme with subdued markings.  :)
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline Litvyak

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2012, 05:59:56 AM »
Hmmm, may have to buy an F-105 kit and build one of those...

One nitpick, though, if you don't mind? The roundels are wrong - the roundels as present on the renderings are the new ones that were introduced with the new/current flag; back when the Red Ensign was in use, the RCAF used the Silver Maple roundel.
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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2012, 06:36:51 AM »
Hmmm, may have to buy an F-105 kit and build one of those...

One nitpick, though, if you don't mind? The roundels are wrong - the roundels as present on the renderings are the new ones that were introduced with the new/current flag; back when the Red Ensign was in use, the RCAF used the Silver Maple roundel.

I noticed that too. Easy to fix though in the real world.  ;D
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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2012, 06:52:48 AM »
I can't believe there's not a thread for this one, so...

A few ideas:
- RCAF buys F-105 for nuclear response in Europe instead of F-104.  I'm thinking a two-seater with the T-stick II spine (perhaps with an Iroquois replacing the J75).
- RAF buys two-seat Thunderchief Mk.1 as a "temporary measure" until P.1154 is ready; later develops Thunderchief Mk.2 with enlarge spine, full Martel capability (four missiles with control pod on centerline), and J75 replaced by Olympus 321R (installation already proven as one Thunderchief Mk.1X flew as testbed for TSR-2 engine development).  I'm thinking that the Mk.1X in "raspberry ripple" would look quite tasty.
- Armee de l'Air F-105s to supplement Mirage IVs?
Quite right.  How did I miss adding a topic on my favourite aircraft?  Glad you caught the error in time and did your part by starting the topic.  :)

The idea of an F-105 in CAF/RCAF and French AdA markings gives me a warm fuzzy feeling all over :)
<snip>.
May I satisfy your fuzzies?
<snip>These are drawn by Spinner's Strike Fighters


A shame that Spinner's (Alf) did not want to join us here.  I miss seeing his creations. 

Would rather see the RCAF/CAF Thunderchief in the NATO camouflage scheme with subdued markings.  :)


Or like the 1975 green SYM markings John Lacey did for me. Change the  Roundels to the 1980 Blue/Red. All green makes for an easy paint job sez lazy Carl.  :o






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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2012, 06:56:24 AM »
Quote

A shame that Spinner's (Alf) did not want to join us here.  I miss seeing his creations. 

Would rather see the RCAF/CAF Thunderchief in the NATO camouflage scheme with subdued markings.  :)

Agreed. Alf has done some awesome work recently.
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Offline Litvyak

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2012, 07:16:02 AM »
Mmm. That F-107 has inspired me - now I've got an idea of what to do with my Trumpeter kit!
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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2012, 07:04:32 AM »
Got an EF-105J with F-4G bits that's gonna be in Hill Grey somewhere on the backburner. Also an Aeronavale anti-ship (exocet) one. Maybe some Kartveli OKB examples (codename Fuddle). RoKAF. EdA...... The list is quite extensive.

As an aside, how is human cloning coming?  ;)

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2012, 07:19:11 AM »
I went into the Osprey book on the F-105 and found that Republic had proposed derivatives with extended wingtips (have to work through the info and see if I can find more specific data for modelling purposes, I'm tempted to go with extended span and reduced LE sweep which could possibly allow fitment of a Sidewinder, or equivalent AAM, rail on the wingtip.  I also found that the Canadian proposal did include replacing the J75 with an Iroquois and the RAF one did include replacing the J75 with the same Olympus variant as the TSR-2 used.  There were also proposals to use an advanced J75 variant that P&W offered which had 30,000 lbt. in full burner.

I need to check the dimensions, but I think a RM-8, or a similar JT8D modification, might fit in place of the J75 and I don't believe the airflow requirements are that different, comparing F-105 and Viggen intakes.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2012, 07:27:25 AM »
I went into the Osprey book on the F-105 and found that Republic had proposed derivatives with extended wingtips (have to work through the info and see if I can find more specific data for modelling purposes, I'm tempted to go with extended span and reduced LE sweep which could possibly allow fitment of a Sidewinder, or equivalent AAM, rail on the wingtip.  I also found that the Canadian proposal did include replacing the J75 with an Iroquois and the RAF one did include replacing the J75 with the same Olympus variant as the TSR-2 used.  There were also proposals to use an advanced J75 variant that P&W offered which had 30,000 lbt. in full burner.

I need to check the dimensions, but I think a RM-8, or a similar JT8D modification, might fit in place of the J75 and I don't believe the airflow requirements are that different, comparing F-105 and Viggen intakes.

Nice to know!  I was not as far off base as I had imagined with the extended wings to provide more space for additional stores pylons on the wings.  The wing tip mounted missile launch rails could also be mounted on the bottom of the wing tip which would leave your existing navigation and formation lights intact plus the ESM bumps that show up later in service life. 
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2012, 02:02:30 AM »
Just a thought, Republic had pitched the F-105 to the Luftwaffe, but how about to the West German navy?  I could see a two-seater with T-Stick II spine and two Komoran missiles on patrol over the Baltic in Marineflieger (sp) camo.  Givent eh Thud's sea level performance, that'd make for a very difficult target for the other side to hit.

Offline Weaver

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2012, 02:40:12 AM »
One of my favorite Whiffs is "What if the F-4 never happened?". One possibility here is a tactical fighter F-105 based on Vietnam experience:

1. Fixed integral fuel cell in bomb bay
2. Pair of Sparrows on corners of 1. (yes, they WILL fit with the u/c doors)
3. Straightened inboard trailing edge for more wing area
4. Extended leading edge for more wing area: LE root extends to tip of intake. More wing area again, and balances 3.
5. Twin Sidewinder rails on each outboard pylon

Despite their size, Thuds didn't do half badly in air-to-air combat (they shot down more MiGs than they lost aircraft to them), so this version, with a little more wing area should be good.

Whatever the mods and mission, a lot of the Thud's vulnerability could be fixed by relatively minor detail work, such as duplicating electrical and hydraulic lines and running them well apart, possibly behind a modicum of armour.
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2012, 11:46:22 AM »
Sometime I'd love to see a top view of the extended wing proposal.
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Offline Geoff

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2012, 04:44:26 AM »
RAAF in place of the F-4s, well they wanted bombers!

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2012, 06:31:32 AM »
Sometime I'd love to see a top view of the extended wing proposal.
Well, the span was extended 4 ft. according to published data, so that's a starting point.  I'd think use the same wingtips and have a reduced sweep leading edge inboard to the next major rib.  I'll have to see what I can work up.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 09:54:57 AM by elmayerle »

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2013, 09:56:45 AM »
I was looking through some F-105 books and a couple variations struck me (figuratively, not literally).  What if the RF-105 had been chosen instead of the RF-101?  Would we have also seen RF-105Ds?  For that matter, a RF-105F with capability for not just photo but electronic reconnaisance?

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2013, 10:47:43 AM »
I was looking through some F-105 books and a couple variations struck me (figuratively, not literally).  What if the RF-105 had been chosen instead of the RF-101?  Would we have also seen RF-105Ds?  For that matter, a RF-105F with capability for not just photo but electronic reconnaisance?

Evan, do you have a picture or a line drawing of the RF-105D?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 11:10:55 AM by The Big Gimper »
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2013, 11:59:18 AM »
I was looking through some F-105 books and a couple variations struck me (figuratively, not literally).  What if the RF-105 had been chosen instead of the RF-101?  Would we have also seen RF-105Ds?  For that matter, a RF-105F with capability for not just photo but electronic reconnaisance?

Evan, do you have a picture or a line drawing of the RF-105D?
You can find pictures of the RF/JF-105B reasonably readily (let me know and I'll scan some material if needed) and the same approach can be applied to making a RF-105D from the extended nose of the F-105D.

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2013, 07:52:49 PM »
I was looking through some F-105 books and a couple variations struck me (figuratively, not literally).  What if the RF-105 had been chosen instead of the RF-101?  Would we have also seen RF-105Ds?  For that matter, a RF-105F with capability for not just photo but electronic reconnaisance?


Evan, do you have a picture or a line drawing of the RF-105D?

You can find pictures of the RF/JF-105B reasonably readily (let me know and I'll scan some material if needed) and the same approach can be applied to making a RF-105D from the extended nose of the F-105D.


I don't have any personal material on the F-105. Note to self: Need to fix this.  ;D

Searches have provided many textual references but no images.

However I did find 5 images of a RF-105B at the Flickr Repository for the San Diego Air and Space Museum Archive

And this surviving example.

JF-105 search provided this image.
   
Did the RF-105D use the RF-105B nose or the JF-105B nose?
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Republic F-105 "Thunderchief" Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2013, 11:12:29 PM »
JF-105B is a re-purposed RF-105B with the clear panels for the cameras replaced by sheet metal panels (I should be able to scan some pics from various reference books at home).  There never was a RF-105D and I'm presuming that a RF-105D would apply similar flat surfaces and camera panels to the F-105D nose that the RF-105B did to the F-105B nose.  With the longer and larger nose, I could see the RF-105D also mounting a forward and downward looking camera.