Author Topic: Mirage F1 inspiration  (Read 33478 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2013, 09:19:35 PM »
Speaking of Mirage F.1 with Sidewinders:

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2013, 06:07:43 PM »
Weren't the Sidewinder and Magic basically compatible?  IIRC they used the same rails and connectors.  I wonder if the electronic black boxes were significantly different?  I know the RAAF initially put Sidewinders on it's Mirage IIIs and then replaced them later with Magics.

Offline Weaver

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2013, 07:28:53 PM »
IIRC, all Mirages had Sidewinder-compatibility to start with: Magic came along later.

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2013, 07:35:38 PM »
Weren't the Sidewinder and Magic basically compatible?  IIRC they used the same rails and connectors.  I wonder if the electronic black boxes were significantly different?  I know the RAAF initially put Sidewinders on it's Mirage IIIs and then replaced them later with Magics.
I think the RAAF was using AIM-9B from the stock bought for the Sabres and replaced then with the Magic during the early 80s when they reached life of type.  I also heard that the 30mm ammo was aged to the point of being dangerous to the firing aircraft, which combined with the missiles being obsolete left the Miricles effectively un armed come 1980.

Offline cafe

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2013, 04:37:31 AM »
The upgraded moroccan Mirage F1 (Mirage F1EM VI) can use the MICA EM & IR. Their radar is a variant of the Thalès RDY-3 (RDY used on Mirage 2000-5, RDY-2 used on the Mirage 2000-9).

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2014, 01:07:23 AM »
Was there ever a Navalised Mirage F1 proposed?  It seems to me it would have been ideal for the French carriers of the time an ideal replacement for the Crusader and Etendard instead of the failed Jaguar M.  Maybe an M53 powered version for the early 80s.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2014, 02:55:30 AM »
What?  Like this?



Nope, never proposed... ;)
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2014, 10:06:58 AM »
 :)

That will do for a start, any more info?

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2014, 02:09:55 PM »
Boredom strikes again, been reading up on the Mirage F-1.  While I have always liked the look of the F-1 I had always been under the impression that it was nothing special in terms of performance or capability and never realised that the type had quite a successful combat record.  I was actually quite surprised at how highly it was regarded by its operators and also by its longevity in service (assumed it had been retired by most operator pre 2000).

While I have whiffed a RAAF F1 I never actually saw it as a serious real world contender for the RAAF, but now I see it could actually have been a very smart choice, especially with the production and marketing deal that was being offered.  It was superior to the Mirage III in just about every way, proved to be quite adaptable to different roles, was affordable to own and operate and appear to be quite long lived without mention of significant fatigue issues.  Basically an Australian build of the F1 from the mid 70s would have for filled all the RAAFs requirements at the time and provided a perfectly good enough combat aircraft into the 90s at lower cost than the F/A-18A perhaps allowing the fighter force to be maintained at four active squadrons.  If the F1 was acquired in conjunction with retaining the 24 leased Phantoms, the proposed Jaguar buy, or even served as the low end of a high low mix including F-15s the RAAF may actually have seen a net increase in capability.  The Affordable and sustainable F1 may also have been an attractive export option for NZ, Indonesia, Malaysia Singapore and Thailand.

The other thought that comes to mind is Argentina ordering the F1 direct from France in the mid 70s having it in service in numbers (including maritime strike versions) by 1982. 

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2014, 03:25:43 PM »
:)

That will do for a start, any more info?


See here
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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2014, 03:27:45 PM »
I agree, it is one of those aircraft that is often overlooked and yet has had a very successful career.

An idea I have is to do. Carrier based, VG wing F.1.  I plan to adapt MiG-23 wings to do it.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2014, 07:28:18 PM »
I am liking the RAAF Mirage F1 more and more.  It slots in so well with the real world RAAF timelines but also with a number of wiffs I've come up with which change procurements and orbats at different points.  I do like the F1 as a naval fighter too (even without a swing wing  ;)), it would be a good fit on an Essex, Victorious, Hermes, Eagle, or a Tarawa type CVS instead of Skyhawk, Etendard, Super Etendard.

What would be interesting is a RAF / RN version powered by a Spey and armed with British weapons including Skyflash, Sea Eagle, ALARM etc.  It could have been the Jaguar remains a trainer and F1 is selected for the tactical fighter role to replace the Hunter FGA 9 and later the EE Lightning in the interceptor role.  The RN version is developed to replace the Sea Vixen and Buccaneer on Hermes, Victorious and possibly Centaur as well as Eagle if her Phantomisation doesn't go ahead.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2014, 08:15:30 PM »
I agree, it is one of those aircraft that is often overlooked and yet has had a very successful career.

An idea I have is to do. Carrier based, VG wing F.1.  I plan to adapt MiG-23 wings to do it.
In 1/144, if you want a straight, and not dogtoothed leading edge, use the old Otaki MG-23U kit.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2014, 03:32:14 AM »
What happened to the Iraqi Mirage F1s that "escaped" to Iran during the Gulf War?  Do they still exist, what sort of condition are they in?

Wiff, they are still in good condition and Iran sells them all to Argentina, including the anti-shipping strike models.  Argentina is able to get South African assistance in upgrading them, including BVR missiles.

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2014, 04:19:27 AM »
What happened to the Iraqi Mirage F1s that "escaped" to Iran during the Gulf War?  Do they still exist, what sort of condition are they in?

Wiff, they are still in good condition and Iran sells them all to Argentina, including the anti-shipping strike models.  Argentina is able to get South African assistance in upgrading them, including BVR missiles.


At least two of the former Iraqi F.1s have recently been overhauled and are still in service.  I suspect the majority of the rest (supposedly up to 10) also are still in service.  Here is a photo of one of the overhauled aircraft:



Re Argentina, I doubt they would go for the ex-Iraqi-ex-Iranian ones since they would carry far too much 'baggage' for too limits a capability.  The current speculation is that Argentina is doing a deal with Israel for some upgraded Kfirs, possibly even in the Block 60 format.  Other options raised have included KAI TA-50 and FA-50s, JF-17s, MiG-29s and even Chinese F-8s.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2014, 04:26:41 AM »
Yes read about that on DID which is what got me thinking about the Iraqi / Iranian F1s.  Only 10 flying, probably hardly worth it then.  Maybe we need the UK to offend Spain and get that order back on track  ;)

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2014, 09:37:32 AM »
This may beyond saving depending on how many parts have been lost but there is always hope, for instance if it were to become a navalised F1M then it would need new undercarriage, maybe robbed off a Super Etendard, etc.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 11:29:31 AM by Volkodav »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2014, 09:16:59 PM »
Would it need different u/c ?, I seem to remember the u/c was quite robust from the one I've built.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2014, 09:21:59 PM »
Mines broken off and I haven't found it yet, that the only reason I'm looking at an alternate.  It was quite robust an suited for unprepared strips, sections of road etc. 

Offline Ghost Rider

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2014, 06:19:22 PM »
This topic has inspired a 3d model of the "bubble canopy" version.



It just looks right - and with the higher seat position, it could have been fitted with folding wings and a tail hook for use as a carrier based aircraft ......





.... and real contender for a "kit bash" modelling project if ever I saw one


 ;)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 09:10:38 PM by GJE52 »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #45 on: October 12, 2014, 01:36:39 PM »
What about some of the Mirage III operators also being Mirage F1 operators?  E.g.  Brazil, Columbia, Venezuela, Pakistan...
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2014, 12:13:53 AM »
What about some of the Mirage III operators also being Mirage F1 operators?  E.g.  Brazil, Columbia, Venezuela, Pakistan...
Israel (perhaps leading to a J79-powered version)

Also, what if low-time Mirage F.1 airframes were upgraded with the electronics and engine from the Grippen?  Since the South Africans and the Russians fit a RD-33 into a Mirage F.1 airframe, I see no reason a RM12 couldn't fit, especially since it's smaller than the present ATAR 9K.

Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2014, 04:58:06 AM »
I love your idea  :D

I have one similar with a F-1B and some part of Kfir :
- nose of C-10
- IFR probe of Kfir
- cockpit instrument panel from C-10 (both seat)
- one piece front canopy (like modern kfir an M2000)
- new engine (but which one ???)
- modern weapons load

Not realistic sure, but it's this of the KH MF1B will be a scrap in a boneyard (like my KH F-1C in progress)

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #48 on: October 15, 2014, 10:24:54 AM »
Thoughts for that new engine, depending on who's doing the modifications, F404/F414, RM12, EJ200, M88.  Personally, I'd go with the EJ200 just to be contrary.  If it's the Israelis doing the modifying, the F404/F414 would be most likely, the Swedish, as in my thought, the RM12. any other European country, the EJ200, and, finally, France, the M88.  I could see it as an upgrade of the Spanish ones with them installing an EJ200 as part of the upgrade.

Re: Mirage F1 inspiration
« Reply #49 on: October 15, 2014, 01:41:14 PM »
A spanish one with EJ200... Not a bad idea, thanks I'll take note of this :)
In your opinion, need a scoop like the kfir at the base of tail fin ?