Author Topic: No WWII  (Read 1463 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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No WWII
« on: January 29, 2022, 02:26:37 AM »
A new idea.  What if WWII just doesn't happen?  This could take multiple forms, for example:

  • Perhaps the League of Nations works and defuses tensions
  • Perhaps the likes of Hitler just don't get the support and fritter away as a fringe nut job group
  • Perhaps after WW1, people collectively say they have had enough of war
  • Other...

Either way, we see the 1920s continue into the 1930s...into the 1940s but without any major wars.

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Kerick

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Re: No WWII
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2022, 07:30:16 AM »
Certain technologies would not have advanced as they did. We might still be flying around in prop airliners with the 707 on the drawing board. NASA would be dreaming of moon landings and space telescopes. Big debate on battleships compared to aircraft carriers. Could be interesting whiffs.

Offline perttime

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Re: No WWII
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2022, 03:00:17 PM »
So we likely don't have a Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and Germany doesn't go looking for Lebensraum. Is the lack of the Pact enough to keep Stalin (or whoever is in power there) from expansion plans?

Offline M.A.D

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Re: No WWII
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2022, 06:54:51 PM »
So I'm surmising that the consequences of the aftermath of the Great War still effects and displaces millions, the Great Depression still occurs. This still equates to a sociological divide throughout the world - i.e. Growth in Socialism, Fascism (Although you state no Hitler, there still might me an influencing Nazi Party.... Mussolini unfortunately still comes to power, although without Hitler pissing in his pocket, his taste for conquest is curtailed), Nationalism and Communism still occurs.
Would there be a Spanish Civil War on the scale it occured?
If there's no Hitler, one would assume the Weimar Republic would continue and with that perhaps greater natural convergence with the Soviet Union for both trade of natural resources, and of course military technological experiment and development (Treaty of Rapallo & Treaty of Berlin) as a consequence of the Russian Revolution/Russian Civil War and the Treaty of Versailles, not to mention Germany's want to ensure a divide between Britain and Soviet Union.

If the Weimar Republic continues without Hitler's idelogical crap, I'm wondering if German would side with China rather than Imperial Japan? After all the Weimar Republic showed it's willingness to supply/equip and train the Nationalist Chinese government/military....

Could the Weimar Republic attempt to regain its lost colonies, taken from it as a consequence of losing the Great War?

Could there be a resurgence of British/US tensions, as a consequence of economics, the Great Depression or US ambition of empire building....

I do like the idea of a developing and mature Czechoslovakia, what with the growth in capability and reputation of Skoda, Ceska Zbrojovka, Avia, .....


MAD
« Last Edit: January 29, 2022, 07:14:15 PM by M.A.D »

Offline Story

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Re: No WWII
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2022, 12:35:17 AM »
The Nature of Evil being what it is, I could see several lesser curses inflicting the planet in the absence of the greater one.

NOTE: Now available as a free 3D File.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1136189
« Last Edit: January 30, 2022, 02:40:10 PM by Story »

Offline Frank3k

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Re: No WWII
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2022, 02:48:01 AM »
If Private Henry Tandey would have chosen duty over sentimentality, Hitler would have ended 1918 with his brains spilling into the mud of a WWI German trench.
Without Hitler, I'm sure Stalin would have been emboldened without a strong continental European foe; maybe a strong Czechoslovakia like MAD mentioned would have helped slow him down. I'm sure Stalin would have wanted to poke at Poland again (and probably lose) and at Finland (definitely lose) so there would be some activity in Europe.

The Japanese empire was going gangbusters in China without Germany's help, although the West wouldn't have noticed or cared until Dutch, British and US interests were threatened. The original Mussolini would have been contained by the UK and maybe even Germany and France as soon as they threatened their interests in the Med, Levant or Africa.


Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: No WWII
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2022, 06:14:42 AM »
Some random musings:



CFBV
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline M.A.D

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Re: No WWII
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2022, 08:26:54 AM »
Perhaps Poland and Czechoslovakia establish a deep alliance to counter both the Soviet Union and resurgent Weimar Republic 🤔
This could mean that the Polish military can modernise quicker using then state-of-the-art Czech industrial power, drive and know-how...

Offline Story

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Re: No WWII
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2022, 09:45:10 AM »
What if the Turkish leadership wasn't so gunshy from the Ottoman experience in WW1?

In 1938, the Turkish Army at peacetime strength consisted of 174,000 soldiers and 20,000 officers forming 11 army corps, 23 divisions, one armoured brigade, 3 cavalry brigades and 7 frontier commands.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: No WWII
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2022, 01:28:11 PM »
The Weimar Republic was on rocky ground at the best of times & it was only a matter of when, not if either the Nazis or Communists took control of Germany. Without the charisma of Hitler to focus their drive & ambition the Nazis & Communists would have been of about equal effectiveness, so I'd think that Germany would have devolved into civil war.

If the communists won & were in control in the USSR & Germany, it's a fair bet that the British & French (& possibly the USA) would have bolstered the militaries of Finland, Poland, Czechoslovakia & Hungary, at the very least. Neither the USSR nor Germany would have been capably of organising a coordinated attack on Poland for quite some time.

If the Nazis won then neither they nor Germany would have been in any condition to quickly mobilise for war, so a much longer build up would be likely.

This hiatus would have given the Czechs the opportunity to mature their industrial capacity, which was only just beginning to find its own feet in the late 1930's. Mutual defence pacts between the Poles, Czechs, Hungarians &, possibly, Finns, along with various Anglo-French alliances, would have made any attack on any individual country problematic. Czechoslovakia could have begun supplying military hardware to its allies in Eastern Europe & Scandinavia.

These changes may not have prevented a WW2 but they may have significantly delayed it (possibly by decades).
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Offline Story

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Re: No WWII
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2022, 02:42:19 PM »

These changes may not have prevented a WW2 but they may have significantly delayed it (possibly by decades).

In that Timeline (hell, almost any of them), I could see agents of the Kremlin fomenting the 2nd Sepoy Rebellion to kick off on the 90th Anniversary of the first one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_independence_movement

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: No WWII
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2022, 08:25:37 PM »

These changes may not have prevented a WW2 but they may have significantly delayed it (possibly by decades).

In that Timeline (hell, almost any of them), I could see agents of the Kremlin fomenting the 2nd Sepoy Rebellion to kick off on the 90th Anniversary of the first one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_independence_movement

Maybe the 100th? ;)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Story

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Re: No WWII
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2022, 12:27:26 AM »

These changes may not have prevented a WW2 but they may have significantly delayed it (possibly by decades).

In that Timeline (hell, almost any of them), I could see agents of the Kremlin fomenting the 2nd Sepoy Rebellion to kick off on the 90th Anniversary of the first one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_independence_movement

Maybe the 100th? ;)

I was figuring 1857 (Round 1 slaughterfest) to 1947 (Indian Independence our timeline / Round 2 slaughterfestalternate timeline - cause stress fractures would probably run the same way in the multiverse?)

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: No WWII
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2022, 10:35:08 AM »

These changes may not have prevented a WW2 but they may have significantly delayed it (possibly by decades).

In that Timeline (hell, almost any of them), I could see agents of the Kremlin fomenting the 2nd Sepoy Rebellion to kick off on the 90th Anniversary of the first one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_independence_movement

Maybe the 100th? ;)

I was figuring 1857 (Round 1 slaughterfest) to 1947 (Indian Independence our timeline / Round 2 slaughterfest alternate timeline - cause stress fractures would probably run the same way in the multiverse?)

Yes, but there was a whole World War which accelerated the Indian independence movement & weakened the British Empire/Commonwealth. Adding an extra decade for some other forces to take effect is not too extreme & 100th anniversaries are important, psychologically.
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Offline bluedonkey99

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Re: No WWII
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2022, 11:44:37 PM »


  • Bavaria and Italy (or at least the north) susceptible to Communism, thus causing possible domino effects in eastern Europe and the middle east?
       - Could this bring greater engagement from the Ottomans?
       - would the above provide sufficient industrial resources for the communists to expand (clearly, never on the scale of the allied support provided during WWII)

  • if WWII doesn't happen, does German science develop the practical application of rocketry and atomic theory
  • how do other technologies develop, or not and over what time period
         - Do we have transatlantic/intercontinental jets, or bigger props fleets?
         - Do we have a new breed of seaplanes etc and does this give rise to new geopolitical flash points, based upon the need for military/commercial sea plane bases around the globe

  • Spanish Civil War, probably would happen in some form, depending on how the above goes, it may have been shorter, or Spain becomes the new Balkens with "west vs east" proxy war playing/spilling out
  • British Empire, could it have kept on top of India, or would a Communist (or American) inspired Independence movement still take place over a longer time period?
  • Noone has really mentioned Japan, with its industrialisation and imperial desires make it almost inevitable that it would still go after the resources of China and the pacific rim states
       - a longer drawn-out campaign with the Americans?
       - a Japanese Australia [/li]

[li]As an alleged" "non imperialist power", would America seek to extend its "not an empire" beyond the Philippines, pacific and Caribbean territories? [/li][/list]
        - would Cuba/Costa Rica become states or 'protectorates'
        - would American trade preferential result in a more fractious relationship with Britain, or would the mutual desire to milk the worlds economies see a pan-Atlantic alliance?

  • Does the world continue to make leaps in healthcare enabling mass vaccines/inoculation and antibiotics,
        - if not - does that enable a global pandemic causing uprising and rebellion around the developing nations and 3rd world,?
        - does it lead to a different kind of global conflict?

[/list]

Offline Story

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Re: No WWII
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2022, 09:41:14 PM »
Anglo-Belgian-Franco Coalition against Mussolini's "One Million Bayonets" after the fall of Ethiopia (1937).

Air-delivered chemical weapons, WW1 style logistical challenges, the return of Airships (Helium?) and creaky Light Armor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_East_Africa