Beyond The Sprues

Current and Finished Projects => Physical Models => Sea => Topic started by: Artoor_K on March 31, 2014, 04:44:11 PM

Title: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Artoor_K on March 31, 2014, 04:44:11 PM
I've bought a large model of USS Independence sloop from 1775. The model (quite large 1/20 or sth) is well done but it's missing few details. I know that Independence was armed with 4-pound guns still I hadn't found any measurements or drawings of these. Anyone have any info about that? I've tried to use Artesania Latina model as a guide but no success.
Title: Re: 4-pound naval gun - question
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on April 01, 2014, 03:28:49 AM
Hi Artoor,

The following searches resulted in a few links that might be of interest to you:

4-Pounder Cannon (https://www.google.com/search?q=4-pound+naval+gun&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs#q=4-pounder+cannon&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official)

4-pounder naval cannon (https://www.google.com/search?q=4-pound+naval+gun&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs#q=4-pounder+naval+cannon&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official)

4-Pounder Naval Gun (https://www.google.com/search?q=4-pound+naval+gun&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs#channel=rcs&q=4-pounder+naval+gun&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&spell=1)

Model Ship World forum has a topic on 4-pounder and 6-pounder cannons (http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4725-6-pound-4-pound-cannon-measurements/) that might help you. 
Title: Re: 4-pound naval gun - question
Post by: Artoor_K on April 05, 2014, 10:30:52 PM
Thanks :) I finally found a model in 1:72 which gave me an opportunity to calculate a length of barrel. Anyway, sides of my model are different from real "Independence" so I think that my model will be more pirate converted sloop than a Civil War ship :) Simply, I don't want to cut such beautiful made model, just to make it similar to real ship. It will be a present for my fiance and she likes to play "Sid Meier's Pirates" :)
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Artoor_K on April 08, 2014, 07:31:44 AM
A I said, I've bought a large model of sloop from 1775 or sth. It's quite old, dirty and damaged by time. The rudder is missing, as long as anchor. Nothing that can't be repaired, I think. I bought it for a birthday gift for my fiancee so now I have a deadline, arrrr :) As I said , she loves to play "Sid Meier's Pirates" , so this one will be a pirate sloop.

Recently , I bought eight carriage guns . Then ,a few sviweling cannons will arrive and a lot of deck equipment.

Now it looks like on the pictures:
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/wacek80/Slup/DSCN5143_zpsae5b2ed6.jpg) (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/wacek80/media/Slup/DSCN5143_zpsae5b2ed6.jpg.html)
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/wacek80/Slup/DSCN5141_zpsd21e3a14.jpg) (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/wacek80/media/Slup/DSCN5141_zpsd21e3a14.jpg.html)

A lot of repainting and detailing but I hope I can do it well :)And of course , It have to be renamed :) Yarrrr!
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Diamondback on April 08, 2014, 07:36:17 AM
Artoor, I remember that game... she already find the dirty trick that if you take out Henry Morgan as your very first move the game gets a LOT easier? LOL

For non-SMP players, the jump from your starting sloop to Morgan's heavy frigate is like trading a WWI biplane for an F-22. :)
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Artoor_K on April 08, 2014, 10:50:25 PM
Artoor, I remember that game... she already find the dirty trick that if you take out Henry Morgan as your very first move the game gets a LOT easier? LOL

For non-SMP players, the jump from your starting sloop to Morgan's heavy frigate is like trading a WWI biplane for an F-22. :)

She is really good in SMP. I think she already finished this game on hard level :)
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Brian da Basher on April 10, 2014, 05:01:54 AM
I'm really going to enjoy watching this one, Artoor!

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Artoor_K on April 10, 2014, 06:02:05 AM
I'm really going to enjoy watching this one, Artoor!

Brian da Basher

I'm still waiting for cannons and anchors. With them I'll be able to continue this project at full speed:)
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on April 10, 2014, 10:56:05 AM
Artoor,

Here is a link to a wonderful song about sailing ships that should put you in the right mood for working on your yacht:

Crosby Stills & Nash - Southern Cross (http://youtu.be/0cBsnopTVmo)

Enjoy! 
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Artoor_K on May 08, 2014, 06:10:50 AM
After a long recess...

Finally I have cannon barrels but they're still too small  >:( I'm giving up with carriage cannons. I'll make 8 so called falconets out of them , then some equipment on deck and that's all.

The barrels:
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/wacek80/Slup/DSCN5337_zps0a806322.jpg) (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/wacek80/media/Slup/DSCN5337_zps0a806322.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Old Wombat on May 08, 2014, 11:09:46 AM
Many people have been seduced by the Hollywood/movie image of pirate ships & don't realise just how many of them were, actually, quite small & lightly armed - nor do they realise just how squalid & disease ridden the lives of pirates really were, with most of them living in worse conditions than they (often) had mutinied against.

I'll be interested to see how this build comes along, Artoor. :D
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: jcf on May 28, 2014, 02:22:38 AM
Late to the party, but here are some drawings of period British naval artillery from Chapelle's The American Sailing Navy.

Chapelle discusses in the text that the American guns were mostly based upon British originals, were primarily
cast iron and, like the British guns, could vary significantly depending on the foundry. Some French pattern guns
were also used. The gun drawing shows the standard British 'short guns' rather than the 'long guns' and carronades.

The drawings include the general rules for sizing the guns and the gun carriages, the dimensions of
the latter being based on the dimensions of the gun.

HTH.

(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/BTS/18TH_CENT_BRIT_GUN_01.png)

(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/BTS/18TH_CENT_BRIT_GUN_02.png)
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: jcf on May 28, 2014, 02:45:17 AM
Harold Hahn's chart for gun-sizing.
(http://modelshipworld.com/uploads/monthly_05_2013/post-246-0-76816900-1367802351.jpg)

So in combination with Chapelle's drawing, using the 15 X caliber ratio for a 'short gun':
(3.053" X 15) + (3.053" X 2.25) = 45.795" + 6.86925" = 52.66425"/20 = 2.633215" OAL for a 1/20th 4 lbdr.  ;)

So, based on real world variations in caliber to length ratio, anywhere from ~67 to 78+mm OAL would be 'accurate'.  ;D

Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Artoor_K on May 29, 2014, 04:23:34 AM
jcf you're truly miracle worker :) These drawings gave me an idea how to mount falconets. THANKS A LOT ,MAN! 
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Buzzbomb on May 29, 2014, 06:43:32 AM
that is great info on the guns.

Quite interested on how this build will evolve
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: jcf on May 29, 2014, 06:57:58 AM
You're welcome, glad it is of help.  :)

I look forward to seeing the finished sloop.
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Artoor_K on May 31, 2014, 05:59:33 AM
Almost there :)
Falconets are all mounted:
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/wacek80/DSCN5368_zpsae382e01.jpg) (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/wacek80/media/DSCN5368_zpsae382e01.jpg.html)
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/wacek80/DSCN5365_zpsc83aa013.jpg) (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/wacek80/media/DSCN5365_zpsc83aa013.jpg.html)
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/wacek80/DSCN5364_zps127647eb.jpg) (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/wacek80/media/DSCN5364_zps127647eb.jpg.html)
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/wacek80/DSCN5369_zpsa8f75aeb.jpg) (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/wacek80/media/DSCN5369_zpsa8f75aeb.jpg.html)

This little thing  on the last photo is a Vallejo paint bottle :)

I hit upon an idea to mount LEGO cannons as a ship guns. Maybe I'll go this way :)


Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Brian da Basher on May 31, 2014, 06:03:40 AM
Those falconets look great! I'm having a lot of fun watching this beauty come together!

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Artoor_K on June 08, 2014, 07:18:26 AM
Those falconets look great! I'm having a lot of fun watching this beauty come together!

Brian da Basher


Glad to know that :)

Little progress with anchors - it was possible to buy two of them. Sloop missed one but original anchors was nowhere near real one:
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/wacek80/Slup/DSCN5383_zpsea8fa101.jpg) (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/wacek80/media/Slup/DSCN5383_zpsea8fa101.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Brian da Basher on June 08, 2014, 11:07:39 PM
That's such an excellent detail which will definitely add to the realism!

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Artoor_K on June 25, 2014, 05:23:19 AM
Finished...but my fiancee will do a better photos when she get her present :)
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on June 25, 2014, 11:43:59 PM
Your restoration of the model came out looking very nice Artoor.  May it sail for many more years in a sea that is void of spider webs and dust bunnies.  :)
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: Artoor_K on June 28, 2014, 11:28:36 PM
That's all folks :)
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/wacek80/Slup/DSC02301_zpsf9e7a2f1.jpg) (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/wacek80/media/Slup/DSC02301_zpsf9e7a2f1.jpg.html)
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/wacek80/Slup/DSC02300_zps2d37e0f6.jpg) (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/wacek80/media/Slup/DSC02300_zps2d37e0f6.jpg.html)
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/wacek80/Slup/DSC02299_zps6bde1762.jpg) (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/wacek80/media/Slup/DSC02299_zps6bde1762.jpg.html)
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp258/wacek80/Slup/DSC02298_zps0e719ba4.jpg) (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/wacek80/media/Slup/DSC02298_zps0e719ba4.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Pirate sloop ~1/20 - renovation
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 29, 2014, 03:53:09 AM
Nice work.