Author Topic: Patriot Missile Ship  (Read 7790 times)

Offline dy031101

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Patriot Missile Ship
« on: July 15, 2019, 01:39:39 PM »
Well...... after I regained the use of Photoshop in April (Adobe...... you're a joke!), one day I browsed through my copy of Shipbucket parts sheets, stumbled across an old alternate universe entry containing a "Ship Launched Patriot Missile", and decided to make use of it.

Since the launcher is not a VLS and does not have an onboard loader that I know of, it's gonna require a good number of launchers to get where I thought would not be a complete waste of time (40 missiles), which in turn would lead to a lot of deck space being devoted to the launchers.  I'm gonna base the general arrangement of this ship on the Jeanne D'Arc (the helicopter cruiser) but with the hull extended to provide accommodations both fore and aft of the superstructure for the launchers.

Here is the drawing for the Jeanne D'Arc:



Here is a VERY rough idea on where I plan to distribute the Patriot missile launchers:

« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 01:50:46 PM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Patriot Missile Ship
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2019, 11:06:21 PM »
Might I ask why one might install Patriots on a ship when the SM3 and SM6 missiles serve the exact same purpose and are meant for shipboard service? I know this is the WHIF zone, but just curious what you think the reasoning might be? The same deck space carried over to Mk 41 VLS cells could carry a LOT more missiles than trainable Patriot TELs, 4 canisters to a TEL.

Also, not sure if you knew, but the PAC-3 missile is quad packed in the Patriot TEL canisters, so, for loadouts where ABM is important, you actually get 4 times the bang per TEL station. You could easily carry 32 PAC-2 missiles and 32 PAC-3s.

Paul

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Patriot Missile Ship
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2019, 11:44:19 PM »
Firstly: Welcome aboard, dy031101! :smiley:

Secondly: The way I see it is that, although, probably, less versatile, the Patriot system could have been an effective stop-gap measure if the SM3/SM6 programs failed or were significantly delayed in development.
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Patriot Missile Ship
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2019, 02:23:04 AM »
Might I ask why one might install Patriots on a ship when the SM3 and SM6 missiles serve the exact same purpose and are meant for shipboard service? I know this is the WHIF zone, but just curious what you think the reasoning might be?

While this project indeed essentially runs on "Rule Of Cool According To Me", and there is no question that firing SM-3 or SM-6 out of the Strike-length Mk.41 would be the optimised, superior choice for BMD, in a real-world setting Uncle Sam doesn't export the SM-3 or SM-6 to every friendly country that has identified a need for it, either  ;)

Or it could come from an universe where SM-3 does not yet exist......

Part of the reason why I chose to base the ship on Jeanne D'Arc is due to my perception that her function as a missile cruiser would be obsolete as soon as SM-3-capable ships can be built.

Also, not sure if you knew, but the PAC-3 missile is quad packed in the Patriot TEL canisters, so, for loadouts where ABM is important, you actually get 4 times the bang per TEL station. You could easily carry 32 PAC-2 missiles and 32 PAC-3s.

I do- I'm in fact eyeing the SkySceptor ordnance- it's just that there is no Shipbucket graphs for them, and I am too lazy to come up with a sufficiently-detailed one for either......

Firstly: Welcome aboard, dy031101! :smiley:

Thanks.  It simultaneously feels like both an eternity and yesterday  ;D
« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 02:35:18 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Patriot Missile Ship
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2019, 04:12:02 AM »
Cool. Thanks!

Offline dy031101

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Re: Patriot Missile Ship
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2019, 12:19:00 PM »
Update:



Not happy with the main mast.  The work continues.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 12:21:34 PM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Patriot Missile Ship
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2019, 10:47:40 PM »
Not happy with the main mast.  The work continues.
Looks very cool.

Regarding the mast, to be properly effective with those missiles you probably need much larger arrays, akin to the size of the arrays on the Burkes or Type 45s. Loads of power in large arrays to get really long ranges and increased engagement times.

Due to weight constraints, that probably means bringing the arrays down closer to the waterline and then you are left with much simpler communications antennae on the mast.

In addition to the CWIS, you might want to consider a couple of RAM mounts as well. This think is likely to be a ASM magnet in combat.

With the larger number of helos, what do you see the role as? Convoy/carrier group ASW and AAD protection? If so, maybe adding VLASROC to the missile mix might make sense?

Lastly, if you are looking at making the ship more stealthy with the faceted hull shape, the leaving the sides of the hangar all open and full of structure is probably contraindicated.

Paul

Offline dy031101

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Re: Patriot Missile Ship
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2019, 06:11:11 AM »
Looks very cool.

Thank you.

Regarding the mast, to be properly effective with those missiles you probably need much larger arrays, akin to the size of the arrays on the Burkes or Type 45s. Loads of power in large arrays to get really long ranges and increased engagement times.

Due to weight constraints, that probably means bringing the arrays down closer to the waterline and then you are left with much simpler communications antennae on the mast.

I used the C-MAR as a starting point except for directly replacing the multi-functional radar with four antenna arrays (to achieve 360-degree coverage...... hopefully) from the MPQ-53, while retaining the SMART-S look-alike on top for long-range aerial search.

Now that I thought about it again, however, the G/H-band MPQ-53 in naval use would probably at best be equivalent to a fire control radar.  A ship with a stated ABM role, even if only effective against TBMs and AShBMs, should probably have a E/F-band search radar that can be used in that role- that SMART-S look-alike likely won't do.

In addition to the CWIS, you might want to consider a couple of RAM mounts as well. This think is likely to be a ASM magnet in combat.

I'm gonna have to maybe lengthen the ship to accommodate.

With the larger number of helos, what do you see the role as? Convoy/carrier group ASW and AAD protection? If so, maybe adding VLASROC to the missile mix might make sense?

Convoy protection- I would have wanted the Sea King to be of a notional RH-3G minesweeping variant, but in search of a basis (RH-3A) I've only found pictures of it at inconvenient camera angles.

I suppose I can take a look at the bow section again.  Currently there are four eight-cell Barak-1 VLS out of space concerns for anchor chains although I only attempted to work that out in my head.

Lastly, if you are looking at making the ship more stealthy with the faceted hull shape, the leaving the sides of the hangar all open and full of structure is probably contraindicated.

True.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 08:48:28 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Patriot Missile Ship
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2019, 10:04:31 PM »
In addition to the CWIS, you might want to consider a couple of RAM mounts as well. This think is likely to be a ASM magnet in combat.
I'm gonna have to maybe lengthen the ship to accommodate.
Maybe not. Although quite packed in a profile. I suspect, given the circular barbette type mounts for the Patriot pods, that there is a space available in the middle of the aft face of the hanger, between the two RWS mounts on the hangar corners. A slight bump out of the rear face, between the Patriot mounts would probably fit nicely.

Similarly, forward, in between the canted ASuM mounts (Harpoons? Exocets?) there is probably enough room to bump out a bit between those mounts and the aftmost pair of forward Patriot barbettes. The RAM mounts have a pretty small footprint in plan view, all in all, so they should fit. (He said hopefully?)

 :smiley:

Paul

Offline dy031101

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Re: Patriot Missile Ship
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2019, 06:45:22 AM »
Here we go:



EDIT: Added low-observable 76mm gun cupola.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 07:37:23 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Patriot Missile Ship
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2019, 09:52:51 PM »
Here we go:
So, what are we looking at, fore to aft?

RAM
Barak
?
Patriot
?
Patriot
Patriot
RAM

The mast and radar set-up looks much better as does the enclosed hangar area.

Looks very effective as a convoy escort. You could run larger ASW helos like Merlin, Sea King or Cyclone or the smaller hunter/killer teams of H-60 or LAMPS III or Lynx.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Patriot Missile Ship
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2019, 04:41:56 AM »
? #1 is VL ASROC (as per Shipbucket style rules, everything fired out of a VLS is illustrated vertically rather than only anti-aircraft missiles), and ? #2 is HF-3 AShM.

Future helicopters will have to replace the RH-3H MCM Sea King- that leaves Merlin, H-60, and presumably NH90, with the latter two using the Archerfish ROV.
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Patriot Missile Ship
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2019, 03:59:56 AM »
? #1 is VL ASROC
Thought it might be. Cool.
Quote
? #2 is HF-3 AShM.
Oooo! The HF-III is a very potent piece of kit.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Patriot Missile Ship
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2019, 11:13:09 AM »
WIP



The launcher-swap ended up rubbing me the wrong way sufficiently that I decided to modify Ying-Ning a bit further.

I really hope I can get this done before the deadline  >:(
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline dy031101

  • Yuri Fanboy and making cute stuff practical- at least that's the plan anyway
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Re: Patriot Missile Ship
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2019, 10:07:16 AM »
YES!

(I also took the liberty to attempt to bring Chiyo to the same standard)



The FNS Chiyo is a helicopter cruiser in service with the Frontier Navy Fleet Foreign Auxiliary.  The ship is capable of operating eight 13-ton class helicopters although the ship's airgroup at the ship's first commissioning consist of S-70C Thunderhawk and RH-3H Sea King for anti-submarine and mine countermeasure, respectively.  Her massive radar mast houses both an S-band volume search radar, which is rated between the AN/SPY-1F and the AN/SPY-1D in terms of performance, and a C-band multi-function radar with Track-via-Missile antennas, which is very similar to the land-based MPQ-53 set and necessary for anti-aircraft missile guidance.

The ship was modestly-armed despite her large size- 10 quad medium-range anti-aircraft missile launchers, two triple supersonic anti-ship missile launchers, four 8-cell vertically-launched close-in defense missiles, two 76mm autocannons, three triple 324mm torpedo tubes, two Phalanx cannons, and two manually-operated 20mm cannons.  This is primarily because the ship is armed with a simplistic navalization of the land-based Patriot missile launchers- they have no companion autoloader used by naval anti-aircraft missiles, meaning that a large number of launchers are required.  According to her crew at the time of first contact, the ship was built by a country that was subject to a virtual arms embargo aimed to curtail development of naval ballistic missile defense capabilities in the name of "regional balance of military power", which was rendered moot by the impending and irreversible death of her homeworld believed to have been inflicted by a Sage cleansing campaign.

Despite being essentially obsolete in an environment that now permits ready access to optimised BMD-capable warships following the relocation of her home civilization, Chiyo, alongside every other surviving ship of her world with at least marginally-useful military potential, was offered commission by the Frontier Navy- in return for assistance in building their new settlement around a Frontier Navy offworld base, they are to assume joint responsibility in defense and commerce protection of the region (Foreign Auxiliaries are typically not to be considered as assets available for expeditionary operations, despite having been accused otherwise by a few political factions within the UN).  Following her incorporation into the Fleet Foreign Auxiliaries, the ship received several upgrades: first and foremost being the GEM/T and GEM/C interceptors against tactical ballistic missiles and cruise missiles, respectively, although the shorter range of the GEM/T ordnance makes it suitable only for self-defense against a notional anti-ship ballistic missile threat.  Her Phalanx guns were replaced with an upgraded model armed with a more-powerful 25mm Oerlikon KBD gatlin gun, her 76mm guns were refurbished for improved rate of fire and low-observable cupolas, and the ship herself further received two Mk 49 21-round Rolling Airframe Missile launchers as well as two tactical length 8-cell Mk 41 vertical launch systems (equivalent to which the ship was in fact fitted for but not with).  The Mk 41 is intended for the RUM-139 anti-submarine missiles.

Chiyo's parent fleet command is now reportedly looking into the new SkySceptor ordnance, which promises both an anti-aircraft capability on par with the SM-2MR missiles used by the rest of the Frontier Navy's anti-aircraft surface combatants while still being capable against TBMs and a 200% increase in the number of missiles at ready (12 missiles each launcher); unsubstantiated reports suggest that it is well on its way to supersede an earlier plan to modify the loadout for three of the Patriot launchers with quad-packed canisters for the BMD-optimised MIM-104F interceptor.



The FNS Ying-Ning is a helicopter cruiser built by an allied nation of Chiyo's country of origin.  An ambitious development of the project that led to the construction of Chiyo, Ying-Ning retains the same aviation facility arrangement, S-band passive electronically-scanned array 3D search radar, and machinery as Chiyo but, despite a degree of similarity in her outward appearance, is otherwise essentially a "clean sheet" design centered around a vertical launch system for her surface-to-air missiles.

Due to technical constraints and the choice of missiles, the VLS utilizes "cold-launch" method and slanted cells so that the launcher does not need to be strengthened against acute heat buildups associated with missile launch and that a malfunctioning missile can be ejected off the ship; however, the larger individual cells and mechanism required to launch missiles prior to ignition means that the system has only six eight-cell modules, for a total of 48 missiles, within the total footprint equipvalent to 12 eight-cell Mk 41 modules.  Each cell is compatible with both the semi-active radar homing Sky Bow I ordnance and the slightly-larger active radar homing Sky Bow II ordnance; the ship has two MPG-25 illumination sets for Sky Bow I missile terminal guidance.  The Sky Bow I and Sky Bow II missiles have a range of 100km and 200km, respectively.  Two quad anti-ship missile launchers, four quad anti-submarine missile launchers, four 8-cell vertically-launched close-in defense missiles, two 76mm autocannons, three triple 324mm torpedo tubes, two Phalanx cannons, and two manually-operated 20mm cannons round out her armaments.

Ying-Ning was completed just as the beginning of the end was inflicted upon her homeworld, meaning the hope of developing a capability against tactical ballistic missiles for the Sky Bow II ordnance did not materialize prior to the evacuation of her homeworld and was only realized after the ship accepted commission with the Frontier Navy, where Earth-borne contractors transferred the technology needed to remanufacture her associated inventory of Sky Bow II ordnance to incorporate a credible BMD capability.  She also received refurbishment for her 76mm guns, upgrade to her Phalanx guns, compatibility with the RUM-139 ordnance for her anti-submarine missile launcher, and two Rolling Airframe Missile launchers.

EDIT: I just realized that I forgot to link the entry thread back to this post.  *BANGING HEAD*  Thanks, Mod.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 08:08:01 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Patriot Missile Ship
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2019, 10:10:15 AM »
Glad you got this one in under the wire!

I like the layout. Looks very formidable indeed.

Brian da Basher

Re: Patriot Missile Ship
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2019, 02:36:08 PM »
Good looking ship, especially like the superstructure lines.

Offline finsrin

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Re: Patriot Missile Ship
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2019, 05:34:21 PM »
Design evolution is interesting to follow.   Well thought out and refined.  Good job  :smiley: