Talos' Profiles - He 100 and He 280

[Talos]

productionized version thereof?

The one thing that has bothered me about the YF-17 - esthetically - is the pointy nose. I suspect a later variant would have a more curved nose shape to accommodate a larger radar, much like happened to the F-16.

It does set it apart from a lot of other planes of its day. 

[elmayerle]

Maybe give it an AN/APG-67 like the F-20?

that would likely add a small curve to it, but not a lot.  I know some proposals had a nose similar to that of the F-18.  The spine was like that of the YF-17, but much of the rest of the aircraft was like the F-18, more properly the F-18L.

[Talos]

Maybe give it an AN/APG-67 like the F-20?

that would likely add a small curve to it, but not a lot.  I know some proposals had a nose similar to that of the F-18.  The spine was like that of the YF-17, but much of the rest of the aircraft was like the F-19, more properly the F-18L.

I'll probably try to keep it as F-17-like as I call and avoid making it look too much like the F/A-18. It'd be no fun if I immediately made it like the real-world plane. 

Here is an early preview of one of the two profiles I have planned for my '46 GB entry. I got all this work on it done in the past couple of hours. The other profile already has a good start on the line art too, so I hopefully should be able to get these two finished up fairly quickly.

[elmayerle]

By all means, keep the production F-17 as different from the F/A-18 as you can, though I'd rather expect the landing gear and underwing hardpoints would be similar to those of the F/A-18L.  The F-20 should give you a fair idea of how to size the radome for installing the AN/APG-67 here.  You could install the same AN/APG-66 as the F-16's use, but that's, again, too much the same.

[Talos]

By all means, keep the production F-17 as different from the F/A-18 as you can, though I'd rather expect the landing gear and underwing hardpoints would be similar to those of the F/A-18L.  The F-20 should give you a fair idea of how to size the radome for installing the AN/APG-67 here.  You could install the same AN/APG-66 as the F-16's use, but that's, again, too much the same.

That's roughly what I was looking at, with regards to landing gear and hardpoints. I need to look into them more, I haven't gotten to that stage yet. Failing that, I could always attach a Sparrow rail to the landing gear door like the F-16 experimented with. Of course ADC will probably just stick a pair under the wings, but still.

[elmayerle]

The F/A-18L is enough different from the as-produced F/A-18 in those areas (much simpler landing gear and an extra hardpoint on each wing) to be usable as a guide, here.  Some of the older F/A-18 books have some good documentation on the "L".  Another key difference, and one that would likely be on the F-17 also would be that the F/A-18L never had the gaps between its LERX and the fuselage filled in; one consequence of this is that it wouldn't need that fence to reduce tail buffeting that the production F/A-18 has (of course, you then need to find a kit of the F-18 protoype if you want to do a F/A-18L (actually, I've got several to do both those and production F-17's).

[Talos]

The F/A-18L is enough different from the as-produced F/A-18 in those areas (much simpler landing gear and an extra hardpoint on each wing) to be usable as a guide, here.  Some of the older F/A-18 books have some good documentation on the "L".  Another key difference, and one that would likely be on the F-17 also would be that the F/A-18L never had the gaps between its LERX and the fuselage filled in; one consequence of this is that it wouldn't need that fence to reduce tail buffeting that the production F/A-18 has (of course, you then need to find a kit of the F-18 protoype if you want to do a F/A-18L (actually, I've got several to do both those and production F-17's).

Yeah, looking into it the main landing gear are more like the F-17's anyway, versus the knee the F-18 had. The nose was just a lighter version of the F-18's without the catapult bar. I'll do up the two-seater F-17 too, I found some really nice references for that.

[Cliffy B]

Hey Talos, don't know if your on the Secret Projects Board or not but someone posted some nice scans of a Northrup promotional brochure for the F-17 with plenty of photos (in a neat Soviet style style 3-tone blue camo) and other info.  Let me know if you can't find it/access it and I'll dig around.  I want to say its in the "F-17" thread but I can't remember.

[elmayerle]

Cool!!  If memory serves me correctly, the nose gear of the F/A-18 is twin wheel while that of the F/A-18L and F-17.  Looking at Don Logan's book on the YF-17, I found centerline cutaways of the YF-17, F-17, and two-seat F-17.  The production F-17 has a long, still pointed nose with a small radar.  It looks like you could use either an AN/APG-66 with a different antenna from that on the F-16 or an AN/APG-67 as used on the F-20; I'd say to go with the AN/APG-67 as it did finally make it into production for the A-50 combat version of the T-50 trainer.

If you don't have Don Logan's book, I'll be glad to scan portions of it for you.

[Cliffy B]

Wait a sec....I think I had my wires crossed...  The brochure might have been for the F-18L and not the F-17 in fact I think it was. Sorry    Might be of use anyway

[Talos]

Hey Talos, don't know if your on the Secret Projects Board or not but someone posted some nice scans of a Northrup promotional brochure for the F-17 with plenty of photos (in a neat Soviet style style 3-tone blue camo) and other info.  Let me know if you can't find it/access it and I'll dig around.  I want to say its in the "F-17" thread but I can't remember.

Wait a sec....I think I had my wires crossed...  The brochure might have been for the F-18L and not the F-17 in fact I think it was. Sorry    Might be of use anyway

I've been using Secret Projects for a lot of resources for this profile so far, so link away. It might be something I didn't see!

Cool!!  If memory serves me correctly, the nose gear of the F/A-18 is twin wheel while that of the F/A-18L and F-17.  Looking at Don Logan's book on the YF-17, I found centerline cutaways of the YF-17, F-17, and two-seat F-17.  The production F-17 has a long, still pointed nose with a small radar.  It looks like you could use either an AN/APG-66 with a different antenna from that on the F-16 or an AN/APG-67 as used on the F-20; I'd say to go with the AN/APG-67 as it did finally make it into production for the A-50 combat version of the T-50 trainer.

If you don't have Don Logan's book, I'll be glad to scan portions of it for you.

I would massively appreciate that. I don't have a copy of that book and any of that would help. It's hard getting accurate lines for this plane since the majority of art for it dates back to the 80s from things like Flight.

Hmm, does the 67 still have Sparrow capability? That would be a potential deal-breaker for the plane for foreign customers. EDIT: Looks like it can. Might be a good fit then.

[Cliffy B]

It was the F-18L but maybe you can still glean some useful info.

Found this painting very interesting: F-18L Potential Customers
From bottom to top it looks like, Spain, Germany, Australia, Italy, Canada, France, England, and two sans markings but in camo.

Here's the thread:http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16080.0.html
Pages 1-4 have the relevant info.  Page 5 is just some discussion.

[elmayerle]

Hmm, does the 67 still have Sparrow capability? That would be a potential deal-breaker for the plane for foreign customers. EDIT: Looks like it can. Might be a good fit then.

Yes, it does have that capability since it conveyed it to the F-20.

[Talos]

It was the F-18L but maybe you can still glean some useful info.

Found this painting very interesting: F-18L Potential Customers
From bottom to top it looks like, Spain, Germany, Australia, Italy, Canada, France, England, and two sans markings but in camo.

Here's the thread:http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16080.0.html
Pages 1-4 have the relevant info.  Page 5 is just some discussion.

Thanks for the links. That was actually the thread I was reading when I replied to your post last night... 

Definitely some interesting stuff in there.

Hmm, does the 67 still have Sparrow capability? That would be a potential deal-breaker for the plane for foreign customers. EDIT: Looks like it can. Might be a good fit then.

Yes, it does have that capability since it conveyed it to the F-20.

Yes, I looked it up afterwards and realized that. Might be a good fit.

[GTX_Admin]

The GD-53 Golden Dragon radar in the AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo is also based on the  AN/APG-67 and the aircraft is in much the same class as the F-17 so maybe that can be another source of inspiration for your radome design?

[GTX_Admin]

There is also some info in the F/A-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration thread here on BTS.  For example, this photo of a YF-17 in Greek markings.  It was apparently painted like that during the selection of HAF s 3rd gen fighter in mid 80's.

[Frank3k]

There is also some info in the F/A-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration thread here on BTS.  For example, this photo of a YF-17 in Greek markings.  It was apparently painted like that during the selection of HAF s 3rd gen fighter in mid 80's.

Good thing Greece and Argentina never went to war. There would have had quite a few friendly fire incidents.

[Talos]

The GD-53 Golden Dragon radar in the AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo is also based on the  AN/APG-67 and the aircraft is in much the same class as the F-17 so maybe that can be another source of inspiration for your radome design?

Ah the F-CK-1...every servicemember's wet dream to nickname... Always loved how sleek it is and you're right, that's a great idea. I definitely will use it.

There is also some info in the F/A-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration thread here on BTS.  For example, this photo of a YF-17 in Greek markings.  It was apparently painted like that during the selection of HAF s 3rd gen fighter in mid 80's.

I'll more then likely do up an HAF one at some point. Maybe a Turkish one too, since in real life they both have F-16s.

[Talos]

While working on both entries I'm contributing to the '46 GB, I was fiddling around with a rough boilerplate of another plane and was surprised at the size of it compared to the Do 26ATT. I decided to throw most of my recent planes I've drawn, along with some of my better old ones into a new size comparison, which I haven't done in years. There are a few things missing, mostly ones I don't want to display in public yet, not even in boilerplate form.

[Talos]

As a result of having a long vacation over the 4th of July and not getting any work done on these as planned, I wasn't able to finish my entry for the '46 GB. The basic gist of it is Soviet pilots operating out of  small, dispersed airfields in both P-77s and the turbocharged version which I've been calling the P-77B. They're operating against an advanced Japanese floatplane fighter. The floatplane is based on one from a Japanese manga and anime called Konpeki no Kantai, where Yamamoto jumpstarts Japan's war industry by going back in time about 50 years, so Japan has plenty of advanced machines in WWII. One of them is this submarine-launched seaplane fighter that's used to attack the Panama Canal with sub-carried twin-engined bombers. The original is a lot smaller, more like an Me 309, while the manga one I based it on is an enhanced N1K1. I decided to give it a more inline look and dropped in the engine from another Kantai plane, resulting in this version here.

To finish it, I'll need to finish up the line art for both P-77s and color them and the Japanese fighter, which I need to get a proper designation. It's called the Harurashi.

http://i.imgur.com/2U9WjtY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vdWhVKJ.png
http://i.imgur.com/R5MXdxz.png
http://i.imgur.com/ipyuIGi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qUhx4pE.jpg

[Weaver]

There is also some info in the F/A-18 Hornet and Super Hornet Ideas and Inspiration thread here on BTS.  For example, this photo of a YF-17 in Greek markings.  It was apparently painted like that during the selection of HAF s 3rd gen fighter in mid 80's.

Good thing Greece and Argentina never went to war. There would have had quite a few friendly fire incidents.

At least they're a decent distance apart: go look at how many central Americal states have (or had) horizontal blue-white-blue tail flashes with only tiny crests in the middle to distinguish them. IIRC, this is a hangover from a short-lived "federation" that many of them joined in the 1930s....?

[Empty Handed]

The Super-N1K and P-77B are great designs. Nice one!

[apophenia]

Love the Japanese float fighter    Very Blackburn B.44!

[Talos]

Thanks, guys, I'm glad you liked those. The Japanese fighter had been on my drawing board for a while now and I'm glad to get at least the basic line art for it done.

Here's an updated size chart to include those three and a few others. This isn't everything I'm working on, a few spots on this chart have been redacted for security reasons.

[ChernayaAkula]

Lookin' forward to what you're gonna do to the MiG Ye-8 and the F-107!