Author Topic: AVRO Lancaster, Manchester, Lincoln and Shackleton (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 86361 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Hi folks,

A thread dedicated to your AVRO Lancaster, Manchester and Lincoln (and derivatives - e.g. Shackleton) Ideas and Inspiration.

To start with, I am sure many of you have read/heard that the AVRO Manchester originally had provision catapult assisted takeoff.  But have you ever seen what this might have looked like?  Well look below:



regards,

Greg
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Offline raafif

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« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 06:23:40 AM by raafif »

Offline elmayerle

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As I've mentioned elsewhere, a derivative of the Lincoln analogous to the Lancastrian derivative of the Lancaster.  For cargo-hauling or tanker ops, it'd be a nice move.  You could also add the "Tiger Force" saddle tanks if you needed yet more fuel storage capacity.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Supposedly the AVRO Manchester was designed to be able to carry two 18 in (457 mm) torpedoes internally.  Has anyone seen a photo with this fit?

More importantly, how about an AVRO Manchester or better yet a Lancaster in Coastal Command garb in a low level torpedo run...
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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Maverick

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I did a run of Manchesters in 08 & 11 including Coastal Command schemes, Highball bombers & gunships.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Offline sequoiaranger

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To fight the last war more effectively, and to control the airspace over the trenches, the Avro Avatar was developed. The four-gun turret below would be able to shoot down into the trenches as the four-gun turret above defended against enemy aircraft. The "Defiant" idea was also envisioned, whereas the Avatar would fly between enemy two bombers, raking them both broadside. Someone got the idea that such an Avatar, or especially a trio of them, could bank in a circle and spray bullets inward and downward---the first "gunship" was invented! When Britain was threatened by Sealion Invasion, the Invasion Defence Command (you can only see the "ID_", not the "C" of the special markings) commandeered every Avatar for strafing the beaches, including a New Zealander squadron (subject of the model).

For this ostensibly 1/72 aircraft, FROG's 1/96 Lancaster (actually two of them) formed the basis . Wellesley engine, B-24 ball turret, Halifax top turret, and other "subtle" modifications.

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All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

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How about all the Manchesters get re-engined with better engines?  Maybe RR Rriffon or Bristol Centaurus or PW R2800...
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline kitnut617

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How about all the Manchesters get re-engined with better engines?  Maybe RR Rriffon or Bristol Centaurus or PW R2800...

I'm actually going a bit further ahead than that Greg, I'm thinking a Manchester with two RR Eagle 24 cylinder 'H' configuration engines, Lincoln outer wings and lengthen rear fuselage.  I've even got all the parts to do a 'Twin' Manchester version of it which will be started sometime this year (had something posted over on the other forum and I'm calling it an Avro Chadderton), this will have three engines and main gear though.

The idea it would be an alternative to the Avro Nottingham ---
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 03:44:05 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline Maverick

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How about all the Manchesters get re-engined with better engines?  Maybe RR Rriffon or Bristol Centaurus or PW R2800...

Amongst the Manchesters I did, there were Centaurus and Sabre powered versions.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Offline jcf

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Drawing A.1481 29 April 1937, 2 Hercules.


4 Hercules proposal from the same period.


Proposal for Centaurus engined Manchester II, one airframe had Centaurus installed by Bristol, but never flew.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 12:16:24 PM by jcf »
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Offline apophenia

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Great stuff Jon, thanks! I had no ideal that the Manchester II had actually been built.

kit': Love the Nottingham  :)
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Great stuff Jon, thanks! I had no ideal that the Manchester II had actually been built.

kit': Love the Nottingham  :)

Wot he said...
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline elmayerle

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Just for argument's sake, how would the Manchester have looked and faired with two W3420's installed?  I'm thinking that they would've made a distinct difference (I can also see RR doing everything they could to prevent such).

Offline finsrin

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Avro Avatar - another cool concept and bash build - gets five smileys -  :) :) :) :) :)

Offline kitnut617

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Just for argument's sake, how would the Manchester have looked and faired with two W3420's installed?  I'm thinking that they would've made a distinct difference (I can also see RR doing everything they could to prevent such).

Had to go look that one up Evan ---  :-[

I think that would be an excellent choice   :) , although all the engines planned for the Manchester were supposed to be around 2000 hp, I think they found it wasn't enough power for a large twin engined aircraft.  Hence my thoughts of going to the 3500-4000 hp Eagle.  On my Twin-Manchester I'm thinking three of these with 16 foot contra-props and the Nottingham is powered by four of them with Wyvern contra-props.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 10:27:30 PM by kitnut617 »

Offline GTX_Admin

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On my Twin-Manchester I'm thinking three of these with 16 foot contra-props and the Nottingham is powered by four of them with Wyvern contra-props.


Hmmm...a Manchester powered by two Armstrong Siddeley Pythons....mmmm

These might help give an idea of what such a creature may have looked like:





Regards,

Greg
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Another option is to turn some of the various jet testbed Lancs into operational bombers...say, they had jets added to give that extra boost in over target speed maybe:




All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline sequoiaranger

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Yeah, maybe have a jet/flamethrower set in a moveable nozzle to thwart those "Schrage Muzik" Ju-88's lurking below you!!
My mind is like a compost heap--fertile AND rotten!

Offline kitnut617

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I've got one of those Python FTB's on the go too, just have to dig it out of the project box and get on with it sometime.

Oddly, I thought I posted this here some time ago

Offline Daryl J.

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Twin 4360s on a post war Canadian Lanc.   
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline apophenia

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Just for argument's sake, how would the Manchester have looked and faired with two W3420's installed?  I'm thinking that they would've made a distinct difference (I can also see RR doing everything they could to prevent such).

I had a bash but don't think it really works. One issue is the props lining up with the cockpit side windows ... and no room to move the engines aft. Probably the R-2600 was the best bet for the times.

BTW: image modified from one by Terry Hadler for Profile Aircraft No.260
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Offline elmayerle

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No, props in the plane of the cockpit are not a good idea, as the Black Widow proved with every gear-up landing they made.  Ah, well, it was a nice idea.  A pusher-prop version perhaps?

Offline apophenia

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Yes, excellent example. One possibility would be lengthened engine bearers matched with an extended rear fuselage (à la Lincoln) for balance.
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Offline jcf

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Another problem with the W3420 when compared to the Vulture is weight:
3275 lbs vs. approximately 1800. So for an aggregate improvement of around 900 hp at max output,
base airframe weight increases by almost 3000 pounds. The 3420 is also much larger dimensionally.

The Sabre was looked at early on, but was ruled out just as quickly due to its teething problems
and supply bottlenecks.

Two-stage or turbo-supercharged R-2800s along with the high-output Hercules models, including the turbo versions
are also other possibilities to look into.

R-3350 is out due to its own development and production problems.
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014