Beyond The Sprues
Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Aero-space => Topic started by: Beekster on June 14, 2016, 09:45:47 PM
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Love it. Reno racers would be a great group build.
I agree, Reno Racers that Never Were would be cool. Aircraft not eligible, because they were or are used at that venue, include the following:
P-51 Mustang
F8F Bearcat
P-38 Lightning
Sea Fury
F4U/FG-1/FG-2 Corsair
On the other hand, everything else is fair game. A Raiden (Jack), perhaps, with clipped wings? A P-47 Jug? A Yak-3? This is also fertile ground for prototypes, on the assumption that they got sold for scrap and someone got ambitious. How about XP-55 Ascender or XP-56 Bullet or XP-67 Moonbat? Those could get expensive, being limited-run and/or resin, but they'd look really wild. Especially with mild mods like different props.
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Love it. Reno racers would be a great group build.
I agree, Reno Racers that Never Were would be cool. Aircraft not eligible, because they were or are used at that venue, include the following:
P-51 Mustang
F8F Bearcat
P-38 Lightning
Sea Fury
F4U/FG-1/FG-2 Corsair
On the other hand, everything else is fair game. A Raiden (Jack), perhaps, with clipped wings? A P-47 Jug? A Yak-3? This is also fertile ground for prototypes, on the assumption that they got sold for scrap and someone got ambitious. How about XP-55 Ascender or XP-56 Bullet or XP-67 Moonbat? Those could get expensive, being limited-run and/or resin, but they'd look really wild. Especially with mild mods like different props.
Also:
Martin Baker MB.5
Boeing XF8B-1
Republic XP-72
Seafire MK. 46/47
Supermarine Spiteful/Seafang
Kawasaki Ki-64
Anyone notice the contra-prop theme? 8)
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The prototype YP-60E did race
at Reno in the National Air Races before they moved to Reno but crashed during qualifying. Douglas A-26s have also raced at Reno and a DC-7 (once). Clay Lacy raced a DC-7 ("Super Snoopy") at Mojave in 1970, coming in 6th
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The prototype YP-60E did race at Reno, as did A-26s and a DC-7 (once).
Ah, "The Big Boy" class: 36 or more cylinders. ;)
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The prototype YP-60E did race at Reno in the National Air Races before they moved to Reno but crashed during qualifying. Douglas A-26s have also raced at Reno and a DC-7 (once). Clay Lacy raced a DC-7 ("Super Snoopy") at Mojave in 1970, coming in 6th
Hmm...why stop at four engines when you can have six? I need to find a cheap Monogram B-36 Peacemaker, paint it Orange & Black, and put Oregon State University decals on it. Competition number 36, of course.
Or if two engines is all you think you need, how about an F7F Tigercat retrofitted with a pair of P&W R4360s?
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Unfortunately if we rule out real types used then the F7F is a no-go, but personally I'm all for re-enginings! Merlin or Griffon P-38, anyone?
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A F7F with R4360's would need the tail moved aft for both cg and aerodynamic balance considerations; I think a pair of R3350's would be more suitable.
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Do335s re popular ideas for Racers.
Here is a twin Jumo 222 powered one I sketched up a while back:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/12.jpg)
There is also this one that John Faull did:
(http://agapemodels.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/080F4238-617E-474A-9A18-993A59069374-31829-000055FF4A03D7C0_zpse34474de.jpg)
I like your garish one though! :)
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Why not a stripped down Bf 109F/G or H? 8)
How about an Fw 190A/D or FW Ta 152C? 8) 8) All with racer mods :)
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DH Hornet
Hawker Tempest
P-39
CAC CA15
Mitsubishi J2M
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Ooohh, I really like John Faul's version. Of course, being a longtime Mercedes-Benz enthusiast perhaps I'm a bit biased....
Whether or not the subject is an air racer, the idea of a Merlin or Griffon P-38 has always intrigued me. Why a Merlin wasn't tried during the war I don't know; it worked perfectly well in the Mustang. Perhaps it had something to do with various entities being vested in the Allison, or not enough production capacity at Packard to supply both the Mustang program and another that would require twice as many engines...that means a tripling of production or a reduction in the number of aircraft produced. Post-war, a Griffon with contra-props would be wild.
With respect to the F7F and moving the CG aft when using big iron like the R-4360, that sounds like an excuse for two kits and a mild fuselage stretch. A couple of Monogram 1/72 kits could probably be found pretty cheap, and I think that somebody makes the Corncob engines in resin. With two kits' worth of engine cowlings it ought to be straightforward. Hmmmm....
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Griffon P-38 has always intrigued me.
You were saying:
RR Griffon engined with turbocharger:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/P38-grif1.jpg)
And with Supercharger:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/P38-grif2.jpg)
More here (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=765.0)
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P-39
Another one that, if I remember correctly, has featured in races post-war. Or was it only P-63s?
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P-39
Another one that, if I remember correctly, has featured in races post-war. Or was it only P-63s?
P-39Q-15BE NX57591/N57591 'Juba' 1946/'Galloping Gertie' 1948
http://airandspace.si.edu/explore-and-learn/multimedia/detail.cfm?id=4372 (http://airandspace.si.edu/explore-and-learn/multimedia/detail.cfm?id=4372)
P-39Q-10BE (mod) NX92847 'Cobra I' 1946
P-39Q-10BE (mod) NX92848 'Cobra II' 1946-1948
'Cobra I'/'Cobra II' http://ipmsvagabonds.com/page3/page23/page23.html (http://ipmsvagabonds.com/page3/page23/page23.html)
'Cobra I' : http://www.internetmodeler.com/2007/january/first-looks/AM_P39Q.php (http://www.internetmodeler.com/2007/january/first-looks/AM_P39Q.php)
'Cobra II' (Hasagawa build): http://www.hyperscale.com/2013/features/p39cobraii48pd_1.htm (http://www.hyperscale.com/2013/features/p39cobraii48pd_1.htm)
P-39Q-10BE (mod) N9284 'Cobra III' 1967-1968 (rebuilt 'Cobra II')
And there were others ...
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Cobra, a history of the first twelve years of Bell Aircraft has a whole chapter on racing P-39's and P-63's; fascinating stuff.
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Perhaps the most radical of the P-63 racers:
(http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=20443&d=1389707622)
And yes, I have a kit of it! ;)
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Ms Roto-Finish? I remember seeing a photo of this in Classic Wings Downunder magazine some years ago as part of a Reno retro gallery.
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With the tiny canopy, it almost looks like a scale-o-rama. ;D
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How about a Spitfire Mk.21 with contra-props and the "Speed Spitfire" canopy? I just happen to have all the requisite parts in the remote southern stash.
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Ms Roto-Finish? I remember seeing a photo of this in Classic Wings Downunder magazine some years ago as part of a Reno retro gallery.
This is Roto-Finish:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2315/2232321114_f502f7a7ac.jpg)
The P-63 I showed is/was "Crazy Horse Campgrounds"- apart from the minimalist canopy, it also had clipped wings:
(http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/attachment.php?s=5910c352bce361ea41107345a7697290&attachmentid=20447&d=1389707625)
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Thread for your Racing Aircraft Ideas and Inspiration…
(http://www.santaferocketracing.com/restricted/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/imagemanager/files/Reno_Racers.gif)
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By 'Reno style' do you mean Unlimited Class only, all classes, pre-Reno Thompson Trophy as well?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reno_Air_Races#Classes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reno_Air_Races#Classes)
Unlimited
T-6
Biplane
Formula One
Sport
Jet
Between the Wars projects/types that might have been competitive in the post-war Thompson Trophy races:
France: Bugatti or D550 or Caudron C.714R (all real world speed projects)
(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/BTS/C714R_01.png)
Italy: CMASA CS.15 (real world project with FIAT A.S.8 16-cylinder engine, design influenced by MC.72)
(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/BTS/CMASA_CS15_01.png)
(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/BTS/CMASA_CS15_02.png)
USSR:Bisnovat SK-1 based racer of some sort, or maybe a 'YP-37ed' MiG-3?
(http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/KleinBernhard/4860L-1.jpg)
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I have changed the thread title to include all sorts.
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CA-15 racer:
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/CA-15Strega_zps20e3326a.png)
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Modified Sea Fury:
(http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000R88oocI_rd0/s/750/750/air-racing-AV154005.jpg)
(http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000mSg7E0Nqtm4/s/750/750/air-racing-AV154003.jpg)
(http://www.prgm.be/medias/album/1988205.jpg)
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In 1/72 from High Planes you could get if still available from Victory Models (https://www.victorymodels.com/collections/aircraft) or Ebay:
Precious Metal
(http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server3100/41ee3/products/145/images/866/HPR072003_BX_revB__08647.1367547582.1280.1280.jpg?c=2)
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1010/6752/products/hpr048012_bx_revb__92392.1359429223.800.600_large.jpeg?v=1444249593)
Vendetta
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1010/6752/products/hpk072004_box_revb__27729.1367547638.800.600_large.jpeg?v=1444249609)
Red Baron
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1010/6752/products/hpr072012_bx_revb__57526.1367549115.800.600_1024x1024.jpeg?v=1444249621)
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1010/6752/products/hpr072024_bx_revc__50549.1372839399.800.600_1_1024x1024.jpeg?v=1444249660)
Roto-Finish
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1010/6752/products/hpr072011_bx_revb__33129.1367549066.800.600_1024x1024.jpeg?v=1444249619)
Rare Bear
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1010/6752/products/hpr072022_bx_revc__11124.1359429905.800.600_large.jpeg?v=1444249636)
Critical Mass
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1010/6752/products/hpr072002_bx_revb__57699.1367545510.800.600_1024x1024.jpeg?v=1444249603)
BLIND MAN'S BLUFF
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1010/6752/products/hpr072026_bx_revb__99854.1344832033.800.600_1024x1024.jpeg?v=1444249662)
SMIRNOFF
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1010/6752/products/hpr072013_bx_revb__96673.1368601378.800.600_2_1024x1024.jpeg?v=1444249625)
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I've got quite a few of those kits in the stash Carl :) :) :)
But this is my idea of an ""ultimate"" piston-engined racing aircraft. I made it up after I had been to the Reno Air races way back when --
'Course it got the camo treatment --- ;D
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Or even this one, the idea was to use a RR Crecy based engine.
The V-12 Crecy was a 2-Stroke, sleeve valve engine of about 5000 hp, in the book I have called 'The Rolls Royce Crecy', a fellow who's name was Trevallion (I think that's how you spell it) and a combustion engine expert, had down-sized the engine until it was a X-16 of about 9 litres putting out about 2500 hp. That was then re-worked into an X-24 of about 25 or 30 litres which was theoretically able to put out 8000 hp. The book and the one called Rolls Royce and the Mustang, both say that 1 pound of thrust is about 1 hp so I needed an airframe designed for 8000 lbt ------- sooooo --- I came up with this --- another ""ultimate"" piston-engined powered aircraft
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Nice builds Robert. Like the P-86 where P stands in for piston.
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Mmmm....
(http://www.vg-photo.com/airshow/2013/Oshkosh/Racing/EVG_4690.jpg)
(http://www.vg-photo.com/airshow/2013/Oshkosh/Racing/EVG_7894.jpg)
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One can get many of the High Planes kits in 1/48 too - see here (http://www.hpmhobbies.com/categories/Scale-Models/Aircraft/1%3A48/Kits/?sort=featured&page=2).
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I love these guys:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CW9cZE8UoAEHFUr.jpg:large)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2a/9a/36/2a9a36aeaa34ccf4504058c4a0bddff8.jpg)
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Those aircraft look like sculptures.
Works of aerodynamic art.
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F1 racers are just beautiful :-* :-* :-* :-*
I was fascinated by them when I went to the Reno Races some time ago, these look even better than back then ---
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Mind you, this one is something I've been waiting to see:
http://www.shockwave600.com/the-concept.html (http://www.shockwave600.com/the-concept.html)
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Does anyone know if there are any surviving Napier Sabre engines ? I've read that some Sabre VII engines were bench tested to 5500 hp (they were originally 3000 hp rated)
Although it was a big engine, it wasn't as big as a Corn Cob
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There is a cut-away Sabre at the Canadian Aviation and Space Museum. And maybe one in the stash but their website sucks.
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Shiney!!!
(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/GTX_Christmas/F7F_Tigercat_N747MX_La_Patrona_2014_Reno_Air_Races_pit_photo_D_Ramey_Logan.jpg)
(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/GTX_Christmas/F7F_Tigercat_N747MX_La_Patrona_2014_Reno_Air_Races_Silver_photo_D_Ramey_Logan.jpg)
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Mmmmmm Tigercat :P :P :-* :-*
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I wonder if there has been given any thought to adopting evaporative cooling systems for any of the modern day racers?
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Evaporative cooling has been used. At least Stiletto and Galloping Ghost had it (P-51s without the doghouse) and I think some radial powered racers. I recall some of the more normal Mustangs spray something onto the normal radiator.
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I thought GG had something like that. Now there was a pretty airframe with potential. Such a terrible loss - Jimmy and the plane, both. Still breaks my heart.
There are Napier Sabres out there but they seem divided between museums and Typhoon/Tempest restoration-to-fly projects. Not sure there'd be one available for a racer but that is an idea definitely worth pursuing in plastic/whatever.
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Race 42...isn't that Kevin Eldridge's plane named Relentless that suffered the propeller separation a few years back?
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Evaporative cooling has been used. At least Stiletto and Galloping Ghost had it (P-51s without the doghouse) and I think some radial powered racers. I recall some of the more normal Mustangs spray something onto the normal radiator.
Yes some Reno racers such as Galloping Ghost (pictured below) had a kind of evaporative system. Specifically, it uses a system whereby the oil cooler functions as a boiler, with ADI fluid (Anti-Detonation-Injection fluid, a 50:50 mixture of methyl alcohol and water) serving as the boiling medium. Since all of the equipment is internal to the airframe and no air is required, the result is a very clean airframe and low drag installation. The one downside is that range is severely restricted, that is, the aircraft must have sufficient quantities of ADI fluid to sustain it for the duration of the flight.
(http://leewardairranch.com/system/files/private/u347/aSG-0105.jpg)
I was thinking of a system similar to some of the 1930's racers which had surface panels (often in the wings) to aid the evaporative/steam cooling systems.
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Speaking of modifications related to cooling, another option was that used by Anson Johnson’s highly modified Mustang looked at the 1949 Cleveland Air Races. This moved the radiators to the wings
(http://www.stickandtissue.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/P-51D_Johnson_02.jpg)
(http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd463/Jerry_ONeill/DSC_0703_zps9drycyks.jpg)
Details of the inlets/exhausts during restoration:
(http://www.warbirdsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/right-wing-dual-cooling-inlet.jpg)
(http://www.warbirdsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/right-wing-dual-cooling-exhaust.jpg)
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Race 42...isn't that Kevin Eldridge's plane named Relentless that suffered the propeller separation a few years back?
It is on youtube, so it really happened:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhyEnqudx8M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhyEnqudx8M)
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Evaporative cooling has been used. At least Stiletto and Galloping Ghost had it (P-51s without the doghouse) and I think some radial powered racers. I recall some of the more normal Mustangs spray something onto the normal radiator.
Yes some Reno racers such as Galloping Ghost (pictured below) had a kind of evaporative system. Specifically, it uses a system whereby the oil cooler functions as a boiler, with ADI fluid (Anti-Detonation-Injection fluid, a 50:50 mixture of methyl alcohol and water) serving as the boiling medium. Since all of the equipment is internal to the airframe and no air is required, the result is a very clean airframe and low drag installation. The one downside is that range is severely restricted, that is, the aircraft must have sufficient quantities of ADI fluid to sustain it for the duration of the flight.
Reading the technical stuff about the Shockwave Fury, it seems to have something similar
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I was thinking of a system similar to some of the 1930's racers which had surface panels (often in the wings) to aid the evaporative/steam cooling systems.
Those aircraft didn't use evaporative or steam cooling, the surface radiators were simply that, radiators for the water-cooled
engine. Which is why as the engines got bigger/more powerful additional radiator surfaces were added to the floats.
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Race 42...isn't that Kevin Eldridge's plane named Relentless that suffered the propeller separation a few years back?
It is on youtube, so it really happened:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhyEnqudx8M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhyEnqudx8M)
I have a chill after watching that!!! Hell! I'm so focused on the Unlimiteds that I don't remember that happening.
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How about a racing P-38 retrofitted with the late-model Allisons and four-bladed props of the F-82? Perhaps also extend the center nacelle like the "Swordfish" testbed for reduced airframe drag.
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My all time favourite race aircraft - the Pond Racer:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6e/fc/85/6efc85c3821c5fdd12da479e800e4134.jpg)
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--1DAnCJSx--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/193f8gdv57mvljpg.jpg)
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/7/6/0/9/8/a1524718-216-3%20view%20pond%20racer.jpg?d=1192393137)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/69/5a/2b/695a2be217c09be8a6380a08aab0580f.jpg)
I wish someone would release a 1/48 kit of it.
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And a video of the above - as you can see, it wasn't that large.
https://youtu.be/0p7iNuTe3w0
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Another purpose built racer was Tsunami - this was somewhat more conventional though:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/Tsunami_Attempts_To_Break_The_3k_World_Speed_Record.jpg/1600px-Tsunami_Attempts_To_Break_The_3k_World_Speed_Record.jpg)
(http://www.thetsunamiproject.org/images/history/Tsunami_Profiles.jpg)
https://youtu.be/acyNrW_nkHw (https://youtu.be/acyNrW_nkHw)
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Another favourite - the heavily modified Yak-11 "Mr Awesome":
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ce/53/65/ce53658c52bccfc6171325119fe9c8df.jpg)
(http://www.texasairandspacemuseum.org/yak%20for%20web.jpg)
One can get kits of this...but seemingly only in the weirdo scale of 1/72.
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Another heavily modified P-51 - "Miss Ashley II":
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/3/8/5/a4267344-118-Miss%20Ashley.jpg)
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A different sort of racing aircraft: The Mong Sport "Phantom":
(http://www.airventure.de/reno2006/biplanes/reno06_bipe_62_6025.jpg)
(http://www.airventure.de/reno2006/biplanes/reno06_bipe_62_5997.jpg)
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A kit of the Pond Racer in any scale would be insane!!! 8) 8) Didn't realise how small it was, I've a 1/24scale flying model of this to build though. :)
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Napier Heston Racer, modernised a bit - or maybe with a turbine engine from a commuter airliner?
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Schneider Racers converted for wheels ... or skis?
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A kit of the Pond Racer in any scale would be insane!!! 8) 8) Didn't realise how small it was, I've a 1/24scale flying model of this to build though. :)
1/72 right here ---
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Rev3/2701-2800/rev2794-CobraCo-72030/00.shtm (http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Rev3/2701-2800/rev2794-CobraCo-72030/00.shtm)
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The Bernard V4 Schneider aircraft was turned into a landplane:
(http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Braas/8305L.jpg)
The leg fairings were used for additional radiator surface.
The Curtiss floatplane racers were also flown on wheels.
http://airminded.net/r3c/r3c.html (http://airminded.net/r3c/r3c.html)
(http://airminded.net/r3c/curtiss_r2c.jpg)
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Mind you, this one is something I've been waiting to see:
(expired Shockwave link)
A SOMEBODY has purchased Darryl Greenamyer's Shockwave project, and is working on it.
There's a private FB group but there isn't much new information, yet (?). People who know who has the project seem confident that it will happen. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1388986708250939/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/1388986708250939/)
Shockwave:
- R4360 engine
- Sea Fury wing with shorter center section (10' shorter?)
- F-86 tail surfaces
- a fuselage to tie those together
- at least originally, the plan was to make it Fly by Wire.
2009 photo of where they were when the project stalled
Old artist's impression
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(https://i.redd.it/b5z0giiygz251.jpg)
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:-\ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I wonder what you could do for the jet end of things. I know there's classes for the L-29 Delfin and L-39 Albatros, but what other types would be workable?
I also wonder about turboprop types. Scoop up some surplus Tucanos or PC-7s and see what you can do with them.
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Avis made/makes a 1/72 version of the tubby Bristol racer. Here's a great build over at Britmodeller (https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235058290-avis-172-bristol-racer/)
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A fitting companion to the Bristol Barrel above .. the Caproni Stipa.
(https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/abpic-media-eu-production/pictures/full_size_0325/1488629-large.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Caproni_Stipa_on_ground.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Caproni_Stipa_from_front.jpg/300px-Caproni_Stipa_from_front.jpg)
Top picture is of the 3/4 scale replica in Toowoomba, Queensland Australia. Owner & head engineer each flew it once. In the replica, the pilot sat in rear cockpit & operated the rudder-pedals in the front cockpit.
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I wonder what you could do for the jet end of things. I know there's classes for the L-29 Delfin and L-39 Albatros, but what other types would be workable?
I also wonder about turboprop types. Scoop up some surplus Tucanos or PC-7s and see what you can do with them.
By current Reno Racing rules, there is a maximum lap speed and many other limits in the jet class. At least max wing sweep. I think Jet Provosts and Vampires have been flown. Higher speeds would require a different race course.
Turboprops are not allowed in any existing racing class.
... in the what-if world, we can invent out own races ...
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This is another of my 'make the fastest piston engine powered aircraft' designs. I was going to build it in 1/12 scale and had got hold of a couple of those F-16 cockpit kits that Esci made for it plus some propellers and spinners and wheels. I also got hold of a couple of Collectaire 1/12 F-16 pilots too.
It's still waiting to be built -----
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Some very well done profiles and posters of Reno aircraft here:
http://taichi56jp.g1.xrea.com/#Bearcats%20and%20Corsairs (http://taichi56jp.g1.xrea.com/#Bearcats%20and%20Corsairs)
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Some very well done profiles and posters of Reno aircraft here:
[url]http://taichi56jp.g1.xrea.com/#Bearcats%20and%20Corsairs[/url] ([url]http://taichi56jp.g1.xrea.com/#Bearcats%20and%20Corsairs[/url])
Oh yes!
Taichiro Yamashita is a legend :) He has been doing racer profiles, 3-views, and posters for quite a while.