Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration

[GTX_Admin]

Need I say more?

[Volkodav]

Currently reading Brown and Moores Rebuilding the Royal Navy Warship Design Since 1945 and I was surprised to read that following the cancelation of CVA-01 it was planned to build no less than six Invincibles. Also that prior to the cancelation it had been planed to build four Invincible like Escort Cruisers in addition to the three strike carriers and that the sale of a CVA-01 to Australia was seen as likely.

The Escort Cruisers were seen as replacements for the Tiger Class helicopter conversions and the fourth hull was to have been ordered instead of the ninth and tenth County Class Destroyers.

It sort of follows that had Australia bought a CVA-01 an Escort Cruiser or two may have been acquired as well.

Looking at the Escort Cruiser concepts I am considering an Invincible with a ski jump repositioned on the centreline and further forward with lifts repositioned closer to the island and weapons distributed on deck cut outs port and starboard, fore and aft.  Possibly also sponsons for the weapon systems so as not to lose too much flight deck.  As replacements for the tigers they would have needed medium calibre guns, perhaps one on each corner, backed up by a close in AA gun, 35 / 40mm, or later a CIWS and a close in missile, Seacat or later Sea Wolf or RAM.  The Area Air Defence SAM would have been installed in or adjacent to the superstructure or even aft like CVA-01.  If installed at flight deck level the SAM could have been surrounded with retractable blast deflectors

[GTX_Admin]

Good series of pics for HMS Queen Elizabeth here

[GTX_Admin]

Habbakuk by Bombhead on ShipBucket (click on image for more details):

[finsrin]

Splendid carrier  :)

[raafif]

are those red things on the sides submersible-lifeboats ??

[finsrin]

I'm figuring they are Army tanks with tracks & wheels removed.
When an improved tanks are made a crane lifts out the old and drops in the new.

[Old Wombat]

 

Try electric motor housings, if she runs her turbines as generators, or, if she runs her turbines as internal engines, gear housings for the propellers.

[jcf]

Yep, propulsion pods.

[Volkodav]

Ark Royal during sea trials prior to WWII exceeded design speed by such a significant margin it was determined that she could achieve design speed using only the outer two shafts and would have met specifications with only four boilers and two shafts.  Ark was lost when a single torpedo holed her in the single large boiler room, that stretched across the entire beam, causing uncontrollable flooding and complete loss of power, had she been completed with only two thirds of her actual propulsion plant this would have permitted separate boiler rooms and greater sub division, making her far more survivable.

Now I understand why the RN moved to the Armoured Fleet Carriers, but what if a class of improved Arks had also been built with the reduced propulsion plant and possibly only a single hanger they could have been built in less time than the Armoured Fleet Carriers, using less resources and at lower cost.  They, or a modified version, could also have been built instead of the Light Fleet Carriers, leaving the RN with a large number of capable fleet carriers post war.

[Old Wombat]

I'm saving to buy the Gallery/MPC USS Intrepid CV-11 to convert into a RAN variant, possibly in a later guise operating as a Marines support carrier - A-7E's & EA-7L's (navalised A-7K's modified for ECM op's), AV-8's & helo's - to go with my RAM plan or as a 1970's/80's RAN Fleet carrier perhaps operating F4D/F-6 Skyray's, S-2E/G's or S-3's, or similar.


http://www.bnamodelworld.com/gallery-models-mrc/tr-64008

I'm open to suggestions on this one but I'd prefer minimal modifications & existing after-market sets (linked if possible), as I'm trying to retain her "Essex-ness" (evolution, not revolution). RAN air assets are, also, open for discussion - RAM air assets are pretty much limited to planned builds.

[GTX_Admin]

Cool idea.  Maybe have the ship transferred to the RAN instead of the HMS Majestic so as to become the alternate HMS Melbourne.

[Old Wombat]

I'm working on the RAN (OK, the Australian government) buying the 2 incomplete (construction halted) Essex class carriers from the US in 1946 as Fleet carriers, with the Majestic class ships immediately modified/completed as support carriers or early amphibious assault ships for the RAM, or troop transports for the Army.

Thus the Essex class ships would become Sydney & Melbourne, with the Majestic class ships named after battles, say Gallipoli & Milne Bay, or Kokoda.

I'm hoping to get hold of a 1/350 Prinz Eugen, at some stage, & she (he?) can become the war-prize vessel HMAS Canberra.

Replacement could be an indigenous light Fleet carrier class designed for Australia's force projection needs, rather than those of Europe or the US.

[GTX_Admin]

I'm hoping to get hold of a 1/350 Prinz Eugen, at some stage, & she (he?) can become the war-prize vessel HMAS Canberra.

Trumpeter do one.

[Old Wombat]

Yep, & I'm waiting for one to come into stock at BNA, so I can hammer my funds with another big hit after buying the Intrepid (soon)!

[Volkodav]

Actually how about Australia getting IJN carriers as war prizes?

The Unryu class carrier Katsuragi survived the war (although she would have needed extensive reconstruction due to bomb damage) and actually visited Australia as a repatriation transport and her sister Kasagi was 84% complete.

Interestingly Japan received three battleships as war prizes from WWI, what did Australia get, or was our share granted to Britain as we were part of the empire?  If our share was considered part of the UKs total would that same have happened in WWII, seeing us jiped again?

[raafif]

Vindskip design cuts fuel bills - think it would make a good aircraft carrier hull ....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2913195/The-cargo-vessel-hull-huge-acts-SAIL-Innovative-design-harnesses-wind-power-reduce-fuel-consumption-half.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

[finsrin]

Regarding wind using cargo/tanker ships.  How about a high tech mast or two.  Electric motors raise/lower sails and rotate mast for best wind use.  Supplements main propulsion.  Maybe not cost effective.  Specialy if crude prices remain low.

[Volkodav]

Finally decided to bite the bullet and order a resin ship (carrier included) or two from White Ensign Models and discover they have gone out of business.  They have been bought and will start up again but it was a bit of a shock.

Anyway what I was looking to get was an Ark Royal, Illustrious, Colossus, Centaur / Hermes, and Victorious all RAN of course 😊.  Also of interest was HMS London, the modernised County, had an idea involving triple or quad 6" and lots of twin 4" to represent an Australian, war built design and maybe even a post war missile upgrade.  Its not a carrier so I shouldn't be discussing it here but I also was thinking of using a County hull as the basis of a early, or even pre, war CVL.

Not building anything at the moment anyway so the orders can wait.

P.S. The carriers are six generations of the eight or nine RAN carrier generations I'm imagining with Ark being either the first or second.  Considering a modified Ark with two instead of three screws (dead easy to model in waterline) and a single hanger (trim the hull up from the waterline).  The others would be pretty much OOB, with the back story for Hermes and Vic being the RN got their two new 50000tonners approved post Suez (i.e. the US interference had the opposite effect to reality and the UK decided they needed to be able to act without US approval if necessary) and as a result the almost complete modernised carriers and the Tigers were surplus to requirements just as Australia was deciding what to replace her existing carriers and cruisers with.

[Volkodav]

According to Wikipedia (so pinch of salt required) Iran wanted to order three Invincible class carriers and 25 Seaharriers but cancelled (suggests an order) or just didn't go ahead due to manning issues and RN losing interest in the project (not clear whether this was the Iranian project or their own).

Now for the what if part, lets say Irans order went ahead and there were an extra three Invincibles and 25 Seaharriers under construction when the Iranian revolution occurred.  Now would these ships have been the same as the RNs or would they have been modified with US systems to better fit with the US and Dutch ships on order, i.e. Standard, Mk-13 or 26 GMLS, SPG-51, SPS-48 and 49 etc. that would make them less suitable for the RN but far more attractive for Australia, Canada and the Netherlands. 

Wiki says the Iranian project was cancelled in 1976 so RN spec'ed ships could have easily been laid down and possibly launched before the revolution, while modified vessels would have taken longer to prepare (detail design, integration of US systems etc.) so the first would likely not have been laid down until latter and probably would not have been launched before 1979.  If more extensive changes were made, GE LM2500 GTs instead of Olympus for example, they may have been delayed even further and may not ever have been completed.  Anyway this is all make believe so we have a number of interesting possibilities, extra Invincibles available for service in the Falklands, or shortly after, and some very interesting export options, particularly the US combat system versions.

[Old Wombat]

... [snip] ... Anyway this is all make believe so we have a number of interesting possibilities, extra Invincibles available for service in the Falklands, or shortly after, and some very interesting export options, particularly the US combat system versions.

Hello, Australia!

[GTX_Admin]

It's not widely known that the New HMAS Canberra is an Imperial Navy Ship...



From here:  A picture tour of HMAS Canberra LHD L02

[Volkodav]

How about when Sandys 1957 White Paper predicts the imminent end of manned combat aircraft the RNs carriers are re-rolled as strike carriers, specifically tasked with finding and destroying mobile ballistic missile launchers.  As fighters are to be replaced with SAMs and ballistic missiles can destroy any fixed target, the sole missions requiring manned aircraft are the location and destruction of mobile ballistic missile platforms, be they TELs, surface ships, or submarines. 

This anti ballistic missile launch platform mission has priority over all else which means as many carriers as possible are needed i.e. Albion and Bulwark are retained as carriers, new ships are designed and built, bringing the carrier fleet to ten (twice real world) and the Colossus class are converted into CVS to hunt SSGs, SSBs and SSBNs, the Sea Vixen is retired and replaced with multiple guided missile ships (converted and new destroyers and cruisers), Scimitar is rerolled as a strike platform and the Buccaneer is evolved into a ballistic missile launcher hunting TSR, while plans for a supersonic replacement are brought forward. 

This changes the future structure of the RN such that they end up with a class of, smaller than CVA01, strike carriers, each operating two squadrons of Tornado fleet interceptors, another two squadrons of Tornado strike aircraft and a detachment of AEW, possibly E-2s and a pair of SAR helicopters.  These are complemented by a much larger number of guided missile ships, including a class of Escort Cruiser (guided missile armed helicopter, command cruisers, resembling but smaller than the Invincible class light carriers), a class of gun / missile cruisers, as well as County class DLGs and a variety of new build and converted DDGs and FFGs.

[Old Wombat]

And, don't forget, further development of the Buccaneer into Gen 2 & 3 designs (maybe even Gen 4!).

[finsrin]

Wonder if 1/350 CVA-58 kits would sell ?