Author Topic: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related  (Read 76551 times)

Offline Small brown dog

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2019, 05:52:07 PM »
Hawker Hound Story Part 2

By the mid 1930’s there was a hint of trouble brewing in Europe and there was a new uncoupled thrust power unit under development that on its own could exceed the output of 2 x Tesla/Royce Kestrels. This power unit would become the Merlin Electric but it had a long and frustrating gestation period before earning the reputation it has today. By this point the original Hound had undergone two major development stages with  uprated engines and/or aero electrical equipment plus the addition of extra fire power. The Mk2 was little different to it predecessor as most of the additions were internal but the MK 3 was slightly longer in the nose in order to accommodate  additional ammunition boxes and extra fuel storage.


Hawker Hound MK2

In 1936 Tesla/Royce contacted the Air Ministry to inform them that the PV12-Electric could not be expected to go into production for another 18 months. The engine was plagued with problems that included cooling issues, excessive wear and cylinder head cracking. Most problematic was the constant gear train failures between the output shaft and the generator.

The Air Ministry contacted the various contractors that would be affected by the news and many heated phone calls and meetings took place in the weeks that followed. At Supermarine there was a little relief mixed in with the disappointment. RJ Mitchells Spectre was going to be problematic to produce at least initially and there was much to iron out. The prototype flew with a much modified Tesla/Royce Schneider race engine and along with a spare it was good for continued trials until the Merlin Electric was ready.

At Hawkers, Sydney Camm was also disappointed but not in the least surprised. The Merlin Electric was a huge step forward and he wanted all the kinks ironed out before he bolted it to one of his airframes. However, all this was overshadowed by the news of the bombing of Guernica in April the following year. Camm was as appalled as everybody else and was even more vocal in his thoughts on an interceptor. He was invited to speak at an Air Ministry meeting regarding the future Air defence of Great Britain where he stated:

“There may be those in Parliament and elsewhere that are firm in their belief that the Bomber will always get through and, with this frame of mind, vast sums of money and resources are being expended in building what is seen as a deterrent bombing force.”
He continued, “This is an arms race that will spiral out of control and, in some cases, may be the ruin of countries with more fragile economies”.
He had everyone’s full attention now as the Depression was still very much in recent memory and the Edwardian aerial dreadnought building era had been the ruin of many a chancellors budget.

Camm glanced at his notes then picked them up and tossed them aside. Gripping his jacket lapels he continued, “Gentlemen, there is something that always seems to be ignored when stating that the bomber will always get through which is simply that calming by deterrent does not allow for the madman who is willing to lose all in a first strike”.

He paused and then continued in the manner of a headmaster speaking to a rather dim child,  “Of course there is also the fact that no matter how many you put over your enemy your enemy will be doing his damnedest to get some over you and, if the bomber will get through, what are you going to do to stop them ?”

Camms logic was met mostly with mutterings of “hear hear” as he had vocalised what many had been thinking. The outcome of all this was the formation of Fighter Command which would grow into a formidable and very capable home defence organisation far ahead of its time. However, in the meantime Britain was left with only the Hawker Hound Mk 3 which in all reality was nothing more than the original Hound with two additional machine guns and greater horsepower.

Sidney Camm knew that the basic layout of the Hound and its variants was sound and could be improved upon easily without the need to start from scratch. What was needed was more power and also more hitting power. The Air ministry had taken the advice of the Operational Requirements Branch that in view of the increasing speeds of fighter and bomber aircraft, gun firing opportunities would be brief, so a six or preferably eight-gun battery should be installed in fighters. This was later amended to a mixed armament of rifle calibre machine guns and 20mm canon that equalled or exceeded the weight of fire from an 8 gun battery.

The addition of canon came about after Aero electric began research into defensive shielding and the possibility that until such times as shielding was available, aircraft would be fitted with armour which would be increased as more lifting power became available. It was known that Germany was also very interested in defensive shielding and armour. However, it would be some years before any country had a reliable defensive shield generation capability.

At Hawkers the result of all this thinking was the Hawker Hunting Hound (in reality the Hound MK4). Tesla-Royce had pushed the kestrel -Electric to previously unheard of power output for what was still the original displacement of 21 litres and Camm wanted all that power. He stayed with a tubular steel framework, wooden frames/stringers and fabric for most of the rear airframe but refined the flying surfaces and included a fully enclosed cockpit. The Tesla-Royce Kestrels Electric XX mountings were redesigned for added strength and fully covered to accommodate a retractable undercarriage.

In the nose sat 4 x browning .303 machine guns and in the underside of the nose 2 x Hispano 20mm canon. Camm had some difficulty with the feed mechanism and changing drums on early “big dogs”, as the RAF came to call them, was a source of much annoyance.


Rare colour photograph of the prototype MK4 Hound at the Aero Electric RAE Farnborough offices.

The result of all this was the world’s most heavily armed and fastest interceptor prior to the start of the Second World War. By this time the very last bit of power production had been sucked from the Kestrel Electric design but the cherry on top so to speak was the introduction of the Aero Electric SBD-146/58 field coil spool or just the “58” as it was known. The 58 could be said to be the larger father of the next generation of remote or uncoupled lift generators that would be used on the Supermarine Spectre and beyond. It produced 15% more lift  than its predecessors and a useful EMFEM effect for the first time without the need of the EMFEM units thanks to the increased T-Coil output. The latter gave the Hound Mk4b its decisive extra manoeuvrability that would come as a shock to BF219 pilots in the early stages of the war. The Hound might not have been as fast and performance fell of at the higher ceilings but it was an excellent dog fighter at the heights most of the action would take place.

The Hawker Hound story cannot be told without mentioning that for a short period in 1938 a Hunting Hound A series held the world airspeed record. On a flight from the north of England to his base in Northolt in London, Squadron Leader J. W. Gillan made the trip in 40 minutes. This made great propaganda and as is the nature of propaganda the fact was overlooked that Gillan had the benefit of extremely high tail winds which was a result of an earlier violent storm front. In truth he was riding a Hurricane.

With the introduction of the Supermarine Spectre in late August 1940 and  the BF 319 in early 1941 the Hound was becoming easily outclassed and could no longer be considered an air superiority  weapon. However, it fought on admirably right up until the end of the conflict as a fighter, still able to hold its own in some cases, but mainly in additional roles where it would excel most notably the Hound MK5 – with 4 x 20 mm Hispano cannon and hard point for 2 x 250 lb bombs and the Hound MK6 – with 2 x .303 browning MG and 2 x Vickers S gun with 20 rounds. Both variants making  a name for themselves in the desert war and far East.


Dust cover artwork for "Guard Dog - a fighting history of the Hawker Hound" Alfred Price
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 05:55:07 PM by Small brown dog »
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Offline Small brown dog

  • Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad.
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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2019, 06:06:49 PM »
I don't think I'm familiar with your work, but seeing the sample you posted I think you'll fit in nicely.

Welcome to BtS and we look forward to seeing more, especially if they have such lovely spats!

 :-*

Ahem. I'm off now to find out if there's any cold water left.
 :-[
Brian da Basher

I have to admit that there is something about spats  ;)
I have AFV's and non military vehicles in my alt universe. Where can I post them if at all ?
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Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2019, 06:32:30 PM »
Now that's drop-dead sexy:-*

If you keep this up, I'm gonna run out of cold water.
 :-[
Brian da Basher

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2019, 06:40:35 PM »
I have to admit that there is something about spats  ;)
I have AFV's and non military vehicles in my alt universe. Where can I post them if at all ?

You can post all your magnificent art here and you can even set up your own topic if you want to keep your work in one place so your legions of fans can find it easily.

Feel free to send me a message if you need any assistance.

Here at BtS we welcome both what-ifs and the "real" stuff so share anything off your drawing board that strikes your fancy. 

Brian da Basher
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 06:46:16 PM by Brian da Basher »

Offline Small brown dog

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2019, 08:37:16 PM »
Now that's drop-dead sexy:-*

If you keep this up, I'm gonna run out of cold water.
 :-[
Brian da Basher



Spatsalist tendencies are no longer frowned upon, set your self freeeeeeeeeeeee

« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 08:41:15 PM by Small brown dog »
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Offline Small brown dog

  • Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad.
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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2019, 08:59:27 PM »
I have to admit that there is something about spats  ;)
I have AFV's and non military vehicles in my alt universe. Where can I post them if at all ?

You can post all your magnificent art here and you can even set up your own topic if you want to keep your work in one place so your legions of fans can find it easily.

Feel free to send me a message if you need any assistance.

Here at BtS we welcome both what-ifs and the "real" stuff so share anything off your drawing board that strikes your fancy. 

Brian da Basher

Thats cool - thanks :)
I'm happy just making a topic for each thing as if anyone come looking for mine they will have to sort through. That way they won't miss  any of the great stuff on this site.

I don't have much that isn't made up but I do have a couple of Zeppelin images - it was a phase I went through
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 05:15:53 PM by Small brown dog »
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Offline The Wave

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2019, 10:13:48 PM »
Welcome aboard SBD! It's great to have you here. :smiley:

Offline Small brown dog

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2019, 10:36:12 PM »
Welcome aboard SBD! It's great to have you here. :smiley:

Thank you. Its good to be here.
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Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2019, 04:11:22 AM »
That's a fantastic perspective, one I find most delightful of course.
 :-* :-*
Funny, I'd been contemplating floats instead of spats for my next build but I feel like changing course...

Most excellent and your rendering of the NMF is outstanding as well as those incredibly streamlined spats!
 :-*
Brian da Basher

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2019, 04:12:27 AM »
Why did you have to do that?  Now we'll not get anything intelligible out of Brian for days if not weeks... ;)
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Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2019, 05:32:49 AM »
Have you considered having this 3D printed? It would be awesome.

This thread seems to have derailed. I thought we were discussing a 3D print of Scarlet Johansson.

Of course, once all the bugs have been worked out for printing silicon, a 3D model of the Hound would also be amazing.
"How we jigger it and figure it. Mistaking value for the price."

Offline Frank3k

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2019, 05:51:06 AM »

This thread seems to have derailed. I thought we were discussing a 3D print of Scarlet Johansson.


You can get a full 3D model of Scarlet Johansson in Under the skin. A 3D model of the Hound would be amazing, too - and would probably make Brian very happy.

Offline Small brown dog

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2019, 05:14:00 PM »
That's a fantastic perspective, one I find most delightful of course.
 :-* :-*

Funny, I'd been contemplating floats instead of spats for my next build but I feel like changing course...


Strange that as I have an Ion thrust powered Schneider float job that I am thinking of producing a wheeled prototype version of which may well just have to incorporate some spattage.


Most excellent and your rendering of the NMF is outstanding as well as those incredibly streamlined spats!
 :-*
Brian da Basher

Keep in mind I am just a poor small brown dog because I don't know what  NMF ... never mind fleas?
Its a dog thing to be preoccupied with fleas.
Its not that its not real but it could be that its not true.

Offline Brian da Basher

  • He has an unnatural attraction to Spats...and a growing fascination with airships!
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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2019, 05:56:46 PM »
NMF = Natural Metal Finish

No fleas involved so you can rest easy.

Now that's a good boy!
 ;)
Brian da Basher

Offline Small brown dog

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2019, 06:55:44 PM »
NMF = Natural Metal Finish

No fleas involved so you can rest easy.

Now that's a good boy!
 ;)
Brian da Basher

Aha - thats all good then.
OK, what about a treat or maybe a scratch behind the ears ?
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Offline Small brown dog

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2019, 07:58:29 PM »
Owing to the Italian success the previous year, the 1927 Schneider trophy contest was hosted in Venice. That year Supermarine took both first and second place which was the first of three consecutive wins by RJ Mitchell designed aeroplanes from 1927 to 1931 which secured the Schneider trophy permanently for Great Britain.

There was another English machine entered that year which caused some controversy as well as amusement in the media and, within halls of the British air ministry, some outrage and hostility.  After the British defeat of 1925 and the lack of any British aircraft being available in time for the 1926 event, the Air Ministry agreed to support the British team. It should be noted that at this time both American and Italian teams had the backing of their respective countries whereas the British ventures had been private up to this point. The RAF high speed flight was formed at the Marine Aircraft Experimental Establishment Felixstowe in preparation for the 1927 race. 



During this period there were still many Biplane configuration advocates within the Air ministry and so a specification for a high speed experimental biplane seaplane was issued with the ultimate aim of such an aircraft being a contest entry.  The RAF was also interested in air cooled radial engine performance and the future high speed potential of such units.  This posed something of a dilemma for the industry as no one really wanted to touch the specification but did not want to appear disinterested. However, Aero Electric seized  upon the opportunity.

Neville Bane had joined Aero Electric some two year earlier at the invitation of Samuel Benson Dogge, A.E managing director. Bane had been involved in the Royal Navy aerial battleship program that led to the Predator class and had done a great deal of research into ion thrust potential. Unfortunately his research did not meet with great enthusiasm which may partly have been a result of his outspoken views on the future of the aerial Warship.

Both Bane and Dogge were convinced that the dominance of aerial battleships would decline over the next decade as advances in coupled thrust/electrical generator technology were gathering momentum. Both were also equally convinced that in the future it would be Ion propulsion that would dominate aviation.

The Schneider race was an ideal opportunity to investigate the potential of ion thrust and get funding into the bargain. So, with a clever bit of politics and some intelligence of a rather personal nature involving senior ministers, Aero Electrical successfully submitted a design outlining a single radial engine biplane to explore the characteristics and future development of high speed flight. This met with the RAF high speed flight criteria and to satisfy the Air ministry the ultimate goal of the project was classified as a proof of concept to contest trials project.

There was no mention of radical aero electrical features and no questions asked which is surprising as perhaps the name Aero Electrical Ltd may have made at least someone look a little bit closer as A.E. were not at that time aircraft designers. However, another benefit of Bane's employment to A.E. was his close association with Gloster aircraft and in particular, Henry Folland with whom he was on very good terms with. The A.E. aircraft could really be said to have been a joint venture as far as the airframe was concerned. This would, and later did, meet with the air ministry approval.

It was an accepted fact at the time that inline engines had a clear advantage over radial engines owing to the smaller frontal area. Additionally biplanes induce more drag along with other undesirable drag effects to that of monoplanes. However, A.E. argued that the above negatives could be nullified and at the same time the inherent advantages of the biplane expanded on. This was just what the Air Ministry wanted to hear but they would not have liked how he proposed to do it.

Again through past association and behind the scenes dealings, Bristol gave Aero Electric an experimental supercharged 9 cylinder Mercury radial engine that at one point delivered over 900HP. This power to weight ratio was very much an advantage as A.E. proposed to use the engine for electrical generation only for an ion thrust unit. The thrust unit itself was uncomplicated and light weight but the generator and capacitors were a different matter.  The air ministry would have gone into a flat spin if they had been aware as this was the province of the Senior service Aerial fleet and, for this time, nothing but science fiction as far as the aeroplane was concerned especially for high performance single engined types.

The theory was simple. Make use of the Bristol high output light weight air cooled engine without a drag inducing propeller, Take advantage of additional lift of the biplane configuration, Exploit the electromagnetic field on mass effect to compensate for the additional weight and drag and win the Schneider trophy.

Of course it didn't win the trophy and winning it was never a consideration but as a proof of concept it certainly was a winner as history would prove.



By the time the Aero Electric Eros 1 was unveiled to the public the Air Ministry had become very concerned over the growing costs and the seemingly impenetrable curtain of secrecy that had surrounded the project. Then there was outrage from certain quarters which was compounded by an American pre contest review that ran with the headline “Did they forget the prop?” and the fact that the RAF took to referring to the electrical thrust system as the flying fart. To add insult to injury the name Eros was taken exception to, as Eros being the Greek god responsible for illicit affairs,  it seemed as though  Aero Electric were hinting at certain “goings on” in the upper echelons of the air ministry.

This almost got completely out of hand until reasoned evaluation was put before the board of inquiry. It was noted that for all the fun made by the media of the time, the Eros performed remarkably. It came 3rd beaten only by Supermarine’s S5 designs which was expected and gave Britain not only first and second  but third place in the contest. Additionally the Italians and favourites to win failed to complete the contest with any of their aircraft. However, the performance of the Eros when measured against the laps the Italians managed was comparable. The Italians were racing powerful inline engined monoplanes. When taking in the above it can be seen that Aero Electric met, and could be said to have exceeded, all the criteria laid down in the Air ministry specification.

All contest aircraft other than the Eros suffered from  “digging in” owing to the engine/propeller torque effect and required only ideal sea conditions for take-off.  However the Eros, owing to the fact that there was no torque effect had no problems  getting unstuck from the surface of the sea and made all other contestants look like lame ducks during take-off.



Finally it was suggested to the Air Ministry that they should be more interested in how, as the governing body, they could remain so unaware of the complete proposal and, perhaps more importantly, that a more progressive and open mind to aeronautical/aeroelectrical research and development would invite more openness and lead to real world innovation.

The fuss was over and so was further development of the Eros 1. As per all contest entries the engines used were rated only for a very short durations. They were tuned to the maximum and prone to destroying themselves in complicated and expensive ways. This is exactly what happened to the Eros 1 during an all-out speed trial some weeks after the contest.

This was not the end though as certain individuals in the air ministry did wake up. Ion thrust would make inroads over the coming decade with larger transport and bomber aircraft being ideal owing to there multi engine configurations. The Eros airframe was ear marked for conversion into a research land plane for trials. The results of this prototype would later be invaluable to such types as the Supermarine Spirit and beyond.


« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 09:54:33 PM by Small brown dog »
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2019, 09:47:56 PM »
Yup! :smiley: 8)
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Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2019, 11:44:57 PM »
That magnificent example of mixed-propulsion hits on all cylinders!

That shot from above where it's diving on the pylon is especially nice.

Great stuff, SBD!

Brian da Basher

Offline Brian da Basher

  • He has an unnatural attraction to Spats...and a growing fascination with airships!
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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2019, 11:48:20 PM »
Despite my friends calling me the Pied Piper of Cats, I'm actually a dog person and can't say no to those big puppy-dog eyes.

I'll see you when you return from walkies.
 ;D ;D ;D
Brian da Basher


Offline elmayerle

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2019, 01:50:47 AM »
Beautiful aircraft and story; that's majorly impressive, to me, artwork.

Offline Small brown dog

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2019, 02:50:11 AM »
That magnificent example of mixed-propulsion hits on all cylinders!

That shot from above where it's diving on the pylon is especially nice.

Great stuff, SBD!

Brian da Basher

I'm thinking about a wheeled land variant with  perhaps ... some spats  :)


Beautiful aircraft and story; that's majorly impressive, to me, artwork.

Thank you, that's appreciated :)
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Offline Small brown dog

  • Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad.
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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2019, 02:51:18 AM »
Despite my friends calling me the Pied Piper of Cats, I'm actually a dog person and can't say no to those big puppy-dog eyes.

I'll see you when you return from walkies.
 ;D ;D ;D
Brian da Basher

Now that could be a hell of a euphemism ... or is that just me ?
;)
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2019, 03:35:15 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline apophenia

  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2019, 07:04:40 AM »
Love it  :-*  Especially the phantom-view and drivetrain layout  :smiley:
"How we jigger it and figure it. Mistaking value for the price."

Offline Small brown dog

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Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2019, 06:27:44 PM »
Forgot the advert


... got to keep the sponsors happy even if they are all dead :)
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