35th scale Tamiya M5 Stuart Light Tank (M8 75mm HMC) What-If WIP

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Two images to share of the WIP done on my Tamiya M5/M8 hull.  This is a project that has been going on for over three years by now.  I have destroyed two Stuart hulls in the process of trying to get to what is seen in the attached images.  My apologies for not having more to share at this point in time. 

My what-if was to be a Stuart hull with a different suspension.  The Stuart family of vehicles uses an VVSS suspension system that is smaller in size than that used on the M3 Grant and M4 Sherman family of vehicles.  I opted to use the VVSS units from an Academy M3 Grant kit for my larger VVSS units.  The first problem I encountered was the lack of space for these larger units on the Stuart hull.  No problem.  Extend the hull to provide the space but not extend the overall length of the hull.  This is where the two previous failures occurred and drove me to try a third time.  Stubborn?  Yes I am. 

The third attempt has been much more successful than the previous two attempts and the needed space for the larger M3 Grant VVSS units was finally obtained by extending the lower portion of the hull rear to achieve this.  In creating this extended lower part of the hull the rear of the hull took on a new appearance and what you see in the image is what I managed to achieve in getting the lower hull to tuck in nicely under the upper hull at the rear and all that is left at this point is to create a grill or door to cover the final gap that you see in the end on view. 

The original idea was to mate the late M4A3E8 HVSS suspension units with the Stuart hull but the track width made that impossible without major upper hull body and fender work so it was back to VVSS. 

I also considered using the HVSS units from a 1/48th scale M4A3E8 kit but opted to not go that route at this time.  It might happen if this project fails but right now I am still determined to adapt the same scale VVSS units to the Stuart hull. 

This hybrid Stuart will not feature a turret.  I will leave it with an open top similar to the gun tractor and reconnaissance versions that were used during WW2. 

[Buzzbomb]

The project sounds very promising

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Thanks, I just hope it is not going to be one of those where I realize too late that I tried to do more than was possible with the concept.  I like the idea of wider tracks and lower ground pressure on a small tank like the Stuart.  The stretched Stuart hybrids developed by Brazil are a good example of useful improvements to the old Stuart design and trying to keep it useful for long after it was intended.

[Frank3k]

Looks good, Jeff. The joints look like they'll disappear under a coat of paint.

[finsrin]

Got the extension looking right like factory would do it 

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Looks good, Jeff. The joints look like they'll disappear under a coat of paint.

Thanks.  After I realized I was my own worst critic of my own efforts I had to ignore the inner pedant and just go with what felt right.  Getting the lower hull to fit under the upper hull without any snags was quite fulfilling to experience once I got the snags worked out.  For such a simple kit, the Tamiya Stuart can be a PITA to dry fit and get the feel for where it is all going when you start modifying the hull as I have done. 

Got the extension looking right like factory would do it 

Appearances can be deceiving but my patchwork/piecework attempt at modifying the rear of the Stuart hull finally looks about as good as it is going to get for something that is all done by hand.  Keeping the parts squared and true was probably the most challenging part of the modification work performed. 

[Claymore]

Looking great Jeff, the challenge is everything and I can’t wait to see how this one turns out. 

[apophenia]

This is looking very cool. A victory for a stubborn whiffer who has corralled his inner pedant 

I love the idea of a 1/48th scale HVSS suspension on a 1/35th Stuart. Probably a good move leaving that until next time though.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

This is looking very cool. A victory for a stubborn whiffer who has corralled his inner pedant 

I love the idea of a 1/48th scale HVSS suspension on a 1/35th Stuart. Probably a good move leaving that until next time though.

Probably the best decision to do so as I learn the ins and outs of the Tamiya M5 Stuart and M8 75mm HMC kits which both share common parts runners. 

[Story]

Tripped over this while looking for something else, figured it belonged here.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Tripped over this while looking for something else, figured it belonged here.

 
@Story.  Actually that image might be better off in the discussion topic on the Stuart family of vehicles.  But thanks for sharing here as I do not recall anything like that in the Hunnicutt book on the light tanks. 

More WIP images of my Stuart what-if.  I finally found a suitable part to fill the final opening in the rear of the hull.  I modified a part from one of those DML/Dragon M48 Patton/M103 Heavy tnak kits that was intended for the early production versions powered by the gasoline engines.  Definitely not the version I was interested in building so it was nice to actually find a use for one of the parts.  I had hoped to use one of the other engine grill bits with vents moulded into the thing but none of those parts were of the right size or width to pull it off so the solid bit that was intended for the rear of the hull won out. 

[Old Wombat]

 

[Jeffry Fontaine]

More WIP images from my efforts last night. 

First two images show the M3 Grant/M4 Sherman VVSS suspension units, idler wheel, and drive sprockets all attached to the hull.  It was a most satisfying moment to see the Stuart hull sporting a different suspension system albeit the same but just larger.  It gave me a very good feeling of accomplishment to have gotten this far without another cock-up. 

The third image shows the upper hull which features the front glacis plate from the M8 Scott 75mm HMC with the roof section (now modifiied) from the M5 Stuart light tank.  I wanted a front hull that did not feature the bow machine gun and also to have access hatches that did not require crawling through the front glacis to egress the vehicle.  Considering how modular these vehicles were in real life I do not see where this mix of parts would be out of place.  Odd looking at first but it works for me. 

The top hull section, roof, front glacis plate, and roof section are all held together by gravity and fit at this point as I need to perform some additional work on the roof section so that a proper looking vehicle commander's cupola can be fitted.  That hole in the hull roof section was filled with a piece that was supposed to fit on the bottom of the Tamiya M3 Grant 37mm turret.  With some sanding and scraping I was able to get it to fit the turret hole in the roof section after much struggle and harsh words as it was an odd fit due to the thin plastic and diameter of the hole that defied my attempts to be modified without breaking the damned thing.   

[Frank3k]

Wow, the new suspension - and especially the rear idler - really change the appearance.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Wow, the new suspension - and especially the rear idler - really change the appearance.

I too was of the same opinion when I finally got the thing to this point in the project.  It looks so much better than what I had been seeing in my imagination for all of the years I have been planning and working on this project.  To get to this point and see the results made me feel really good about ruining two Stuart kits before finally getting it done right on the third try. 

I still need to determine where the exhaust ports/pipes should be placed since the original exhaust was vented out and down from the portion of the hull at the rear that was configured for that purpose.  With that area now filled in the engine exhaust feature disappeared and I need to find a new location for that or just ignore it completely.  :)

I was fortunate in rediscovering that M3 Grant 37mm turret part and when I realized it was "almost" the right diameter to fit the hole in the roof of the M5 Stuart roof section it made a real difference in where this project was going in that area. 

[Frank3k]

I hate to bring up a sensitive subject... but what are you going to do about the tracks? The drive wheel is original, but the track length has probably changed. The AFV Club individual track link set should work and it's probably less of a pain than the Bronco (not) workable track.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

I hate to bring up a sensitive subject... but what are you going to do about the tracks? The drive wheel is original, but the track length has probably changed. The AFV Club individual track link set should work and it's probably less of a pain than the Bronco (not) workable track.

The "Elephant in the room."  This being a proof of concept I am not too worried about the track issue.  I figured that I can for the short term just remove the excess portion of the Tamiya tracks to get a feel for what to do next in that area.  I had acquired track and HVSS suspension components for the Stuart that I wanted to make with that suspension system but after two failed attempts I felt it better to take baby steps after the first two Stuart kits were ruined.  I would like to do the for realz modification on an AFV Club M3 or M5 Stuart kit after this project is completed but that is still a long way off before that objective is met. 

Edit to add the following:

I decided to check the Tamiya T-41 tracks and to see exactly how much of a ClusterF*ck they would be in getting the things to fit.  Oh, my, they are truly uncooperative and CA glue will not make the ends stick together.  I was so hoping for a different outcome so I could share additional images of tracks actually mounted on the Stuart hull but that is unfortunately not going to happen.  So, it looks like I have to acquire that particular track type for the Grant/Sherman and put the individual links together to the proper length.  I will say that the initial dry fit after cutting away the excess links from the Tamiya track and wrapping it around the road wheels, drive sprocket, etc. was looking damned good, right up to the reality check and realizing that not even a needle and thread was going to alter the outcome to a happy ending. 

Edit to add the following:

ScaleHobbyist has a decent looking T-41 track set for the Grant/Sherman family of vehicles made by MiniArt that looks like the solution to the latest problem:


Click on image or html below to visit ScaleHobbyist.
MiniArt Models (35322) 1/35th scale - T-41 Workable Track Set

[Old Wombat]

 

[Frank3k]

Didn't even know Miniart made them, but not surprising because of their Lee/Grant line. You may have to wait until Russia gets pushed out of Ukraine, though.

For the vinyl tracks, you can soften them in warm water. The only way to join the ends is mechanically - by either sewing, stapling or melting the ends together.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Trying to get my modeling moj0 back and doing so with short spells at the work bench.  One of my pet projects that I shared some WIP images of a while back is the M5 Stuart light tank project that was converted to use the VVSS suspension components from the M3 Lee/Grant or M4 Sherman medium tank.  While the conversion to the larger VVSS components was challenging it did work out and I had a nice prototype of a modified Stuart hull with the larger Grant(Lee)/Sherman VVSS components mounted to the hull and it looked very promising.  Life got in the way along with my attention getting focused on other projects so this project was set aside to rest for a while.  I returned to the project ever so often and quickly set it aside again as I was just not in the mood to deal with the monotonous assembly the MiniArt individual track links for the Sherman/Lee (Grant) VVSS.  That changed last night when I sat down with good intentions of taking up where I had left off from the last real attempt at doing something with the MiniArt individual tracks.  I had not really paid much attention to how the MiniArt tracks fit with the Tamiya Lee/Grant drive sprockets until last night.  I was quite horrified to diiscover that the damned drive sprockets were not accommodating the length of MiniArt track that I had previously assembled.  While the Tamiya track fits within the drive sprockets, the MiniArt track does not.  The pitch of the sprockets is "off" by a few degrees and to add insult to injury, the MiniArt track is too wide for the Tamiya drive sprocket that is attached to the Stuart hull.  So much disappointment that I had to accept as a reality as I checked again and again to confirm what I was seeing with the fit issues. 

Yeah, this really took the fun out of the project.  Thankfully, I have two more Stuart kits and two more of the M8 75mm HMC kits to sacrifice before moving on to the more expensive AFV Club kits.  I also have the AFV Club VVSS and HVSS suspension unit conversion/modification kits to draw upon now.  The plan now is to scrap immediately the current Stuart VVSS project and start over using the AFV Club suspension kit and AFV Club VVSS track set on the Tamiya kit.  Once that is confirmed to work out we shall see how it goes with the AFV Club M3 or M5 Stuart kits that I have in the stash.  Above all else, while this is a failure, it is also a learning experience.   

[Old Wombat]

Above all else, while this is a failure, it is also a learning experience.   

Bit of a bugger with the mojo & build issues, but this is the perfect attitude (& shows that the mojo is on the come-back trail)!

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Above all else, while this is a failure, it is also a learning experience.

Bit of a bugger with the mojo & build issues, but this is the perfect attitude (& shows that the mojo is on the come-back trail)!

Thanks Guy/OW

I must admit that this butchery of the Tamiya kit has been challenging.  While some would refuse to ever consider something so daring as putting a larger, yet similar suspension system on something as tiny as the M5 Stuart/M8 75mm HMC I thought it was worth the consideration.  Slaughtering the old Tamiya kit was the best course of action as the funds invested were not that great when compared to the more expensive AFV Club Stuart kits.  For the purpose of exploring the concept of using the larger Sherman VVSS and eventually the HVSS units on the smaller Stuart hull was a great leap of faith.  I think that by discarding the "Mark I" prototype and moving forward to the next iteration with tracks and suspension units being compatible will be the best choice at this point.  A fresh start with a more comfortable set of parts to work with.

[Old Wombat]

 

[Buzzbomb]

Tracks off, wheels on.

Perhaps 6 six sizeable wheels, Stalwart style

[Ramba]

Great you got some mojo back. Hope you get back to the bench regularly.