Author Topic: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration  (Read 52004 times)

Offline jcf

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #75 on: October 15, 2019, 12:07:18 PM »
How about the IJN slipping into the Gulf of California and launching raids on the southern portion of the Southwest United States?  I'm not sure if US relations with Mexico would allow them to slip in and out undiscovered or not, but I suspect money into the right hands (with or without Germany's assistance) would definitely assist that.

Why? That would serve absolutely no strategic or tactical purpose, and why would they
risk their carriers all the way over in the Eastern Pacific? Never mind that in 1939-40 there
wasn't a whole hell of a lot down there in the Southwest. Certainly nothing worth steaming
thousands of miles to attack. It would not serve the long range strategy of conquering China,
South East Asia and most of the Western Pacific. The attack on Pearl Harbor was a tactical
move in support of the Asia strategy, it was not an end in itself.

Japan would wait to move, just as they did in the RTL, and if the US had become involved
in a war with Germany, an Atlantic war with the USN being forced to send more ships out
of the Pacific reducing their ability to respond quickly, then it's entirely possible that Pearl
Harbor wouldn't happen. Japan would execute the plans of December 8, 1941 when they
moved against the colonial possessions of the weakened, war embroiled European powers,
and now the US, without the attack on Pearl being necessary, the Philippines would probably
have been hit even harder than in the RTL.
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Offline Kelmola

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #76 on: October 15, 2019, 04:05:50 PM »
The IJN ships did not have the range to raid US mainland; they were designed with the intent to operate regionally: Pearl Harbor was conducted at the extreme edge of their operating radius. That is why capturing Midway (or preferably eventually even Hawaiian main islands) would have been extremely important to the Japanese to support any kind of operations in the Western Hemisphere.

The Japanese were also operating under the assumption that Pearl Harbor would serve as a warning signal and keep the US out of the war, with the assumption that the US would not bother to go to full-scale war to retake Southeast Asia even if their current troops there would be defeated. Striking the US mainland, whether on its own or to supplement Pearl, would have increased the risk of escalation in this thinking.

Once the war was on, however, "slipping" was no longer feasible anyway and combined with the range problem nobody bothered to send warships on a one-way mission.

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #77 on: October 15, 2019, 07:57:04 PM »
Ironically, I'm in the midst of something non-spatted

Who are you and what have you done with the real Brian...and his stash available?
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Offline Acree

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #78 on: October 16, 2019, 12:39:46 AM »
RE: Robomog's P-26 to the RAF idea (see 3D Entries below) - no less likely (and perhaps more effective) what about a squadron of PB-2As to the RAF instead/also?  There were about thirty fairly low-time aircraft available in the fall of 1939 that the USAAC was in the process of replacing as first-line fighters.  And there are kits available.  A PB-2A in the Middle East would be pretty interesting!

Offline elmayerle

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #79 on: October 16, 2019, 12:48:35 AM »
RE: Robomog's P-26 to the RAF idea (see 3D Entries below) - no less likely (and perhaps more effective) what about a squadron of PB-2As to the RAF instead/also?  There were about thirty fairly low-time aircraft available in the fall of 1939 that the USAAC was in the process of replacing as first-line fighters.  And there are kits available.  A PB-2A in the Middle East would be pretty interesting!
As a twist on that, perhaps offered with a productionized version of the Allison V1710 installation fitted on the XA-11A trials aircraft for the USAAC by Bell?

Offline kitnut617

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #80 on: October 16, 2019, 03:21:58 AM »
RE: Robomog's P-26 to the RAF idea (see 3D Entries below) - no less likely (and perhaps more effective) what about a squadron of PB-2As to the RAF instead/also?  There were about thirty fairly low-time aircraft available in the fall of 1939 that the USAAC was in the process of replacing as first-line fighters.  And there are kits available.  A PB-2A in the Middle East would be pretty interesting!
As a twist on that, perhaps offered with a productionized version of the Allison V1710 installation fitted on the XA-11A trials aircraft for the USAAC by Bell?

But what time line are we looking at for the RAF to take them on, they were already building Hurricanes and Spitfires well before the war. A P-26 would be a serious step backwards I'm thinking ----

Offline Robomog

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #81 on: October 16, 2019, 04:56:51 AM »

[/quote]

But what time line are we looking at for the RAF to take them on, they were already building Hurricanes and Spitfires well before the war. A P-26 would be a serious step backwards I'm thinking ----
[/quote]

Absolutely, that why I envisaged sending them to the Mediterranean, the RAF were still using Gladiators out there.

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Offline Acree

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #82 on: October 16, 2019, 06:25:01 AM »


But what time line are we looking at for the RAF to take them on, they were already building Hurricanes and Spitfires well before the war. A P-26 would be a serious step backwards I'm thinking ----
[/quote]

Absolutely, that why I envisaged sending them to the Mediterranean, the RAF were still using Gladiators out there.

Mog
>^-.-^<
[/quote]

Maybe even SAAF in East Africa where they were still using Hawker Furies!

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #83 on: October 18, 2019, 08:41:32 PM »
A different scenario:  what if War Plan Red was activated.

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #84 on: October 18, 2019, 08:44:12 PM »
Inspiration from real world events:


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Offline kitnut617

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #85 on: October 18, 2019, 09:55:00 PM »
Going back to my comment about reading Fly For Your Life (Robert Stanford Tuck RAF), he was in the USA in 1940. He relates stories of flying P-35's and P-40's. I think the whole P-26 idea here is too early for what the thread is about. The USAAF had the P-35, P-36 and P-40 already. IMHO, this is what they would have brought to the show had the USA entered the war in 1940.

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #86 on: October 24, 2019, 05:42:16 AM »
"They know you can do anything, So the question is, what don't you do?"

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Offline Crbad

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #87 on: October 26, 2019, 08:08:31 AM »
I'm playing catch up with this thread. In the book 'Armored Thunderbolt' Steven Zaloga covers America's pre war tank force. Interestingly enough, the European doctrine the US army wanted to emulate was... The Germans!  Chaffee, Devers, Bruce etc were all proponents of mobility and wanted the US to form their tanks into combined arms teams like the German panzer divisions.
  Also, in the 1939/40 timeframe, the French were looking to have America license build French tanks. The M3 Lee/Grant was patterned after the Char B1. So maybe instead of Matilda and Churchill, we might have seen the Americans go to war driving Char B1s and Somua S35s. The Somua was probably the closest thing to what the Americans wanted from a tank anyways.
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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #88 on: October 26, 2019, 09:03:25 AM »

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #89 on: October 26, 2019, 09:06:04 AM »

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline finsrin

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #90 on: October 26, 2019, 11:32:17 AM »
Super pictures  :smiley:

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #91 on: October 26, 2019, 08:20:57 PM »
Those B-18 Bolo color photos are especially nice and I'd not seen the bottom one before and the top one only in black & white.

I've got plans to build a B-18 out of a 1/144 DC-3. The Bolo is one of my favorite forgotten airplanes.

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #92 on: October 27, 2019, 04:42:57 AM »
When you consider that in 1940, most USAAC bomber squadrons were equipped with B-18s or B-18As, the scenes above could easily be labelled as “USAAC B-18s in formation on their way to bomb targets in France/Western Germany...” and “A USAAC B-18A somewhere in England 1940...”  ;)
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #93 on: October 27, 2019, 05:24:25 AM »
The B-18 lacks the weirdness of 1930s French designs but retained the ugliness.

Offline taiidantomcat

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Offline Crbad

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #95 on: October 28, 2019, 11:31:03 PM »
Does anyone make a Northrop N9m or N1? Maybe you could scale-o-rama 48th to 72nd or 72-144th and have it be a medium/torpedo bomber?
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Offline LemonJello

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #96 on: October 29, 2019, 12:53:41 AM »
Does anyone make a Northrop N9m or N1? Maybe you could scale-o-rama 48th to 72nd or 72-144th and have it be a medium/torpedo bomber?

Sword makes an N9M in 1/48. I've built one as an natural metal fighter and have another on the shelf that I want to convert to a jet engine version.

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #97 on: October 29, 2019, 02:57:52 AM »
Sword also makes one in 1/72.   Sharkit made a jet conversion kit but it's long OOP.

https://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/n9jet/n9jet.htm
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #98 on: October 29, 2019, 03:58:44 AM »
Sword also makes one in 1/72.

I have that one - nice kit. I also have an old Czech Masters (CMK?) resin kit that I got from Lencraft or Aviation Usk back in the 90s.

Offline jcf

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Re: U.S. Enters WWII Early (1940) GB Inspiration
« Reply #99 on: October 29, 2019, 06:01:31 AM »
N1M style bomber published in Air Trails January 1942.

“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
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