Author Topic: DC-3F  (Read 1756 times)

Offline finsrin

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Re: DC-3F
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2017, 03:22:54 AM »
Jon - good research.  Has flashes of Kawasaki P-1.  Which don't recall seeing model kit of !
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 05:05:01 AM by finsrin »

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: DC-3F
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2017, 08:20:23 AM »
If you decide to go with Aeroflot and can't source decals, let me know. I've got the titles from that 1/144 Il-62M I picked up last time I was in town that I can send. They should fit if your C-47 is similar in size to the 1/72 Monogram Spooky gunship I have.

Brian da Basher

Offline finsrin

  • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
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Re: DC-3F
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2017, 09:18:48 AM »
Thanks Brian,,, yet to browse decal stash.
Wing alignment adjustments are all cut/sanded/etc.  Starting final assembly now.
Browsed landing gear stash.  Decided to go with inward folding gear at near same longitudinal position a DC-3 gear.  Have gear in down position.  Not cutting into wing to make wheel wells (asks for disaster).  Will have gear doors in down position.
Tail wheel choices:   OOB, spatted, add open gear doors for retractable.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: DC-3F
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2017, 12:31:16 PM »
If high speed is intended, I can see them going with a retractable tail gear, preferably one that retracts forward.  Done right, that could put the trunnion for this on the same heavy-duty frame as the rudder.

Offline finsrin

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Re: DC-3F
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2017, 12:38:29 PM »
If high speed is intended, I can see them going with a retractable tail gear, preferably one that retracts forward.  Done right, that could put the trunnion for this on the same heavy-duty frame as the rudder.
What about it being trailing design to turn like original during taxiing ?
Does P-51 retract forward or reward ?

Offline elmayerle

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Re: DC-3F
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2017, 01:01:04 PM »
Forward, as far as I can tell from available data.  One book I have has a cut-away that shows the tail wheel mounting plus a drawing of the strut buildup.  I can scan these if needs be.

Offline finsrin

  • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
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Re: DC-3F
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2017, 01:13:22 PM »
Forward, as far as I can tell from available data.  One book I have has a cut-away that shows the tail wheel mounting plus a drawing of the strut buildup.  I can scan these if needs be.
Nice of you to look it up - Thanks for support.  No need to scan. 
Looked at B-17 pictures.  Retracts reward and swivels around any direction on ground.  No gear doors.  Will go with retractable design.
Figure 2500ish hp engines.  400-450 mph seem right?
Turns out inboard engine cowl not made for wheels up assembly.  Oops forgot to check that.  Time for bit of scratch building and delay.  UGH !
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 02:00:01 PM by finsrin »

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: DC-3F
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2017, 05:51:44 AM »
No gear doors. 
Will go with retractable design.
400-450 mph seem right?
If you're going for a 400-450 MPH design, you're gonna want to put doors on all the gear. Those sorts of speed cause massive buffeting and turbulence around open holes. Remember, drag is a function of speed squared. Drag on a given feature from 275mph to 450 goes up by 4 times. Even with 2500 hp, you won't have any to spare for a dirty design.

As an example, the Bugatti Veyron has a top speed of 250 mph on 1200 HP. The first 250HP gets it to 150 mph, the remaining 950HP is needed to get it to 250 mph.

Food for thought...

Paul

Offline finsrin

  • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
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Re: DC-3F
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2017, 06:41:29 AM »
No gear doors. 
Will go with retractable design.
400-450 mph seem right?
If you're going for a 400-450 MPH design, you're gonna want to put doors on all the gear. Those sorts of speed cause massive buffeting and turbulence around open holes. Remember, drag is a function of speed squared. Drag on a given feature from 275mph to 450 goes up by 4 times. Even with 2500 hp, you won't have any to spare for a dirty design.

As an example, the Bugatti Veyron has a top speed of 250 mph on 1200 HP. The first 250HP gets it to 150 mph, the remaining 950HP is needed to get it to 250 mph.

Food for thought...

Paul
Not clear on my part.  Was referring to B-17 has no tail wheel gear doors.  DC-3F will have gear doors.  Thanks.
Given 1/72 size of engines perhaps 3000-3500 max hp is reasonable.  Dunno.  Cruise power setting good for 400-450 mph ?
Is flexibility in specs with polystyrene engineering.

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: DC-3F
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2017, 03:56:56 AM »
Not clear on my part.  Was referring to B-17 has no tail wheel gear doors.  DC-3F will have gear doors.  Thanks.
Given 1/72 size of engines perhaps 3000-3500 max hp is reasonable.  Dunno.  Cruise power setting good for 400-450 mph ?
Is flexibility in specs with polystyrene engineering.
Ahhh, sorry.

Well, if you're looking at turboprops, the RR Dart comes in at about 40" diameter plus the nacelle, which is smaller than the 54" of the Cyclone, so that's good. Darts went all the way up to ~3000 hp including the residual thrust in the RDa.10/1 version, so 4 of those would put 10-12000 hp on the wings, versus the 2800 with Cyclones which should get you to 400 kts on cruise with a cleaned up DC-3 fuselage (i.e. sand off all the rivets and panel lines!  ;) maybe clean up the nose a bit as well).

Paul

Offline pigflyer

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Re: DC-3F
« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2017, 02:20:06 AM »
Keeping the whatif element in mind, just see what is in the spares box.  As for speed, how about half way between a DC3 and a bear?

Any road up, looks like a winner in any colours to me.
If I don't plan it, it can't go wrong!

If it's great, I did it. If it's naff, I found it.

Offline finsrin

  • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
  • Finds part glues it on, finds part glues it on....
Re: DC-3F
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2017, 06:36:30 AM »
Keeping the whatif element in mind, just see what is in the spares box.  As for speed, how about half way between a DC3 and a bear?

Any road up, looks like a winner in any colours to me.

Your styrenaneering background is evident.  Inboard engines are built ready for wing attachment and our styrenaneering staff is saying same thing.
DC-3F construction delayed/sidetracted by recent sales purchases (see Oopps, I bought another model) and initial concept formulation for them.  Now getting back to construction.
Pi_R_Squared calculations put engines at 3700hp.  Down rating to 3000hp for commercial durability.

Cruise speed:   DC-3 207mph, Tu-95 441mph  =  DC-3F 324mph
Max speed:   DC-3 230mph,  Tu-95 575mph  =  DC-3F 403mph
Thanks pigflyer,,, makes sense !
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 04:43:43 PM by finsrin »

Offline finsrin

  • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
  • Finds part glues it on, finds part glues it on....
Re: DC-3F
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2017, 04:21:46 PM »
After delays due to recent model purchases (posted in Oopps) figuring build concepts for some of them and moving to appropriate stash,,, got back to building DC-3F.
More building to do.  Especially landing gear.  These two pictures show mostly how concept came together.
Has couple flubs to deal with.  Props do turn.  I like the one prop per engine look for a DC-3F.
More later..........

see attachments

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: DC-3F
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2017, 05:42:39 PM »
Diff'rent! 8)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: DC-3F
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2017, 06:17:11 PM »
Nice to see this beauty back on track, fins!

Looks very fast with those new wings!

Is paint next? I wonder what scheme you'll finish it in...

Brian da Basher