Author Topic: Panavia Tornado possibilities  (Read 19205 times)

Offline upnorth

  • Distorting a reality near you.
  • Reinvented Austria and the Stuka....Now what?
Panavia Tornado possibilities
« on: February 19, 2012, 09:25:46 PM »
Hello all:

I notice we don't have one of these types of thread for the Tornado. I think it would actually be a good excercise to see what more could be done with a combat aircraft that's already done a fair bit in the real world, make our brains work a bit more. ;)

I remember several years ago I slapped some USN decals from an F-8 Crusader (VF-2 as I recall) onto the cruddy old 1/72 Monogram Tonado kit, bu otherwise built it from the box.

The thought hit me more recently of what if the Bundesmarine had a carrier force with the Tornado as fleet defence? What sort of mods would be needed to make it a real carrier contender.

Basing my idea on the premise that the Bundesmarine used both the ADV and IDS on their ships, I came up with this list of mods that I think would be common to both:

Beefed up landing gear with towbar on lose leg and lighter tailhook replaced with carrier type.

Thrust reverser system deleted. It would be extra weight and a corrosion trap on carriers.

Folding hinge on tail fin.

Make the radome hinge able to swing through 180 degrees for storage and seal the radome and avionics compartment at this hinge point:

net photo

It did strike me to think of it as a joint project with Grumman. If I look at the similarities between the main landing gear on the Tornado and on the A-6 Intruder, I could see Panavia turning to a proven hand in carrier aircraft to get things like that right. There some aspects of the Intruder gear that I think could be adapted to the Tornado's for strengthening.

Considering the range of weaponry and missions the Tornado can adapt to, having a carrier capable variation on the family would certainly be attractive if it's creator nations had conventional carriers.

Now I know very well that I'm not the first to entertain ideas of a navalised Tornado and that the above are just my take on the idea of getting more milage from the design.

What else could be done with the "Fin"?

Looking forward to whatever other ideas might be lurking in other brains.


« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 09:27:19 PM by upnorth »
Pickled Wings, A Blog for Preserved Aircraft:
http://pickledwings.wordpress.com/

Beyond Prague, Traveling the Rest of the Czech Republic:
http://beyondprague.wordpress.com/

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: Panavia Tornado possibilities
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2012, 04:36:27 AM »
Well, I've always thought of doing an "enhanced" IDS variant with the fuselage extension of the ADV.  Another thought would be to look at the enhanced aerodynamics of the Tomcat 21 and see how much of that could be transferred to the ADV to make it more agile.  There is a series of novels that came out sometime back about a NATO squadron flying greatly improved ADV's that was later joined by another squadron flying similarly enhanced IDS's; these had to have come out in the 1980s or early 1990s as the Soviet Union was, in one form or another, the main adversary.

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: Panavia Tornado possibilities
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2012, 08:23:01 AM »
The carrier version is a good idea and very credible. I doubt whether we'd have had to go to Grumman for carrier landing gear know-how though, given Britain's long experience with carrier aircraft.

What occured to me some years ago, seeing an article about how ADVs used ALARMs and their enhanced RHAWS kit as SEAD in 2003 in Iraq, was that in a less budget-constrained world, a couple of squadrons of the ADVs could be converted to a proper SEAD aircraft once the Typhoon took over their interceptor role. The way I see it is that the SEAD avionics would fit in place of the radar, with additional black boxes in a conformal "canoe" that hangs from the fuselage hardpoints, blanking off the Skyflash stations, but providing two ALARM pylons on corner stations. There's be an enlarged pod on the fin, and four more ALARMs on the Sidewinder rails (they will fit), with the usual Skyshadow and BOZ pods outboard. Alternately, if the funtions of the latter pods could be done internally, then you could have a pair of ALARMs or ASRAAMs on the outboard pylons and eliminate the gun for more black box space.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline upnorth

  • Distorting a reality near you.
  • Reinvented Austria and the Stuka....Now what?
Re: Panavia Tornado possibilities
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2012, 01:39:58 PM »
The carrier version is a good idea and very credible. I doubt whether we'd have had to go to Grumman for carrier landing gear know-how though, given Britain's long experience with carrier aircraft.

What occured to me some years ago, seeing an article about how ADVs used ALARMs and their enhanced RHAWS kit as SEAD in 2003 in Iraq, was that in a less budget-constrained world, a couple of squadrons of the ADVs could be converted to a proper SEAD aircraft once the Typhoon took over their interceptor role. The way I see it is that the SEAD avionics would fit in place of the radar, with additional black boxes in a conformal "canoe" that hangs from the fuselage hardpoints, blanking off the Skyflash stations, but providing two ALARM pylons on corner stations. There's be an enlarged pod on the fin, and four more ALARMs on the Sidewinder rails (they will fit), with the usual Skyshadow and BOZ pods outboard. Alternately, if the funtions of the latter pods could be done internally, then you could have a pair of ALARMs or ASRAAMs on the outboard pylons and eliminate the gun for more black box space.

The SEAD role was a great idea to keep the ADVs going and somehow I think it could have been done without putting too many warts on the outside of the machine.

I talked to an F.3 pilot once about the aircraft in the SEAD role and he said it looked very promissing for the job.

It would be a great WHIFF to do up a Wild Weasle Tornado.

Removing the gun would be logical in any case as the SEAD mission doesn't require it.

As for external warts, I could easily see an enlarged spine for housing more gear. It would be sort of like you see on the F-16 these days.
Pickled Wings, A Blog for Preserved Aircraft:
http://pickledwings.wordpress.com/

Beyond Prague, Traveling the Rest of the Czech Republic:
http://beyondprague.wordpress.com/

Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Panavia Tornado possibilities
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 09:41:14 AM »


 :icon_fsm:
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Panavia Tornado possibilities
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2012, 02:39:44 AM »
RAAF Tornados to replace the F-111s in the late '80s/early '90s.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline Maverick

  • Suffers from 'Fat Fingers' and accidentally locks his own thread...
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • The profile machine!
    • My Photobucket Thread
Re: Panavia Tornado possibilities
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2012, 06:25:54 AM »
Did a total of 28 Tonka profiles including the usual suspects along with one I dubbed the 'FGR.5' which was an ADV baseline with GR systems and USAF Weasels off the GR & ADV baselines.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Offline upnorth

  • Distorting a reality near you.
  • Reinvented Austria and the Stuka....Now what?
Re: Panavia Tornado possibilities
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2012, 12:45:24 PM »
Did a total of 28 Tonka profiles including the usual suspects along with one I dubbed the 'FGR.5' which was an ADV baseline with GR systems and USAF Weasels off the GR & ADV baselines.

Regards,

John

As I said, I know I'm not the first to meddle with these ides for the Tornado! ;D

I do remember a few of those Tornado profiles you did, John. Some very inspiring stuff.
Pickled Wings, A Blog for Preserved Aircraft:
http://pickledwings.wordpress.com/

Beyond Prague, Traveling the Rest of the Czech Republic:
http://beyondprague.wordpress.com/

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Panavia Tornado possibilities
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2012, 05:51:54 PM »
How about posting some of those profiles rather then just talking about them...
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline Maverick

  • Suffers from 'Fat Fingers' and accidentally locks his own thread...
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • The profile machine!
    • My Photobucket Thread
Re: Panavia Tornado possibilities
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2012, 07:56:38 PM »
Over 5000 profiles, it sometimes is difficult to mention everything or, in fact, repost everything.






Regards,

John

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Panavia Tornado possibilities
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2012, 02:07:24 AM »
Thank you :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline ysi_maniac

  • I will die understanding not this world
Re: Panavia Tornado possibilities
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2012, 11:45:45 PM »



Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Panavia Tornado possibilities
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 02:19:45 AM »
How about a Chinese PLAAF Tornado?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
    • SketchUp 3D Warehouse - My Digital Models
Re: Panavia Tornado possibilities
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2012, 05:52:13 AM »
That F-111/Tornado combination might actually work if some scale-o-rama were to be applied by using a larger scale Tornado with a smaller scale F-111 to get around that wide fuselage problem. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline Geoff

  • Newly Joined - Welcome me!
Re: Panavia Tornado possibilities
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2012, 07:28:03 PM »
RAAF Tornados to replace the F-111s in the late '80s/early '90s.

Thats an idea