Author Topic: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 51282 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2012, 03:07:46 AM »
Posted by Abe (aka AGRA) over in the M113 thread:

M113 with the ARES Talon 35mm gun.





Would look good beside a Tracked Rapier.

Circa 1979, based on the M548 TLC. Each gun fired at 1,200 rpm a 35mm shell at 1,175 mps.


I guess I wasn't too far off with this:

Random idea:


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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2012, 10:19:18 AM »
Random idea:  Cheiftain Marksman with existing cannon replaced with two 20mm M61 Vulcan gattling guns.
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2012, 03:24:55 AM »
About 10 years ago I was at the Cold Lake Airshow and on display was some Triple AAA airfield defence that the CAF deploys.  These units had twin guns which looked like 40mm Bofors, only they were set low in the turret and operated remotely from another unit which had a radar on it. Later in the weekend (we were there from Friday to Monday) there was a similated airfield attack and these anti-aircraft guns were put to use, demonstrating how they were used.  But do you think I can find any photos of this equipment on the internet, or any modern NATO or western stuff for that matter.  Can anyone point me to a link where these would be shown.

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2012, 04:13:48 AM »
Probably the Oerlikon 35mm GDF-005 controlled by a Skyguard radar.



Canada phased them out a few years ago.

The Breda/Bofors twin 40mm was much less commonly used.  Here's a picture of one of Venezuela's systems.  It was far more common at sea.



Cheers,

Logan
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 05:51:57 AM by Logan Hartke »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2012, 05:10:46 AM »
From what I can remember Logan, those don't quite look right.  This unit was on it's own trailer, the guns were in a turret and the guns themselves were set very low down, almost at the same level as the trailer frame.  I've seen some WWII German AAA that looks a little like it but without the guns being in a turret.

BTW, top pic just appears as the white square with the red cross through it.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2012, 05:32:54 AM »
Probably the Oerlikon 35mm KD Twin AA Gun and the Oerlikon Contraves Skyguard Radar to control it.  Canada had a total of 20 GDF-005 units and 10 Skyguard FC radars. 

Click on html or thumbnail image to learn more about the weapon system at Wikipedia.

« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 05:37:04 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2012, 05:53:24 AM »
From what I can remember Logan, those don't quite look right.  This unit was on it's own trailer, the guns were in a turret and the guns themselves were set very low down, almost at the same level as the trailer frame.  I've seen some WWII German AAA that looks a little like it but without the guns being in a turret.

BTW, top pic just appears as the white square with the red cross through it.


Yeah, that top photo was to the link below.  It's the same the Jeffry showed a picture of and that I'd linked to in my own post.  I've edited the first photo in mine to hopefully show up for you, now.

http://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Oerlikon-GDF-35mm-AAA-Gun-1S.jpg

Cheers,

Logan

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2012, 06:31:09 AM »
Is there a gun system like those Logan, but where the muzzles are very similar to the 40mm Bofors guns we see in old war photos, with the reversed cone shape because that how I remember these guns being like.  On the demonstration they fired individually and one at a time but at a very rapid rate

Offline finsrin

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2012, 09:33:02 AM »
The various multi-gun systems pictured above sure look leathel for passing aircraft !
If you happen to come upon one when in a tank, I'd think things could get rather nasty too.

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2012, 11:09:18 AM »
Is there a gun system like those Logan, but where the muzzles are very similar to the 40mm Bofors guns we see in old war photos, with the reversed cone shape because that how I remember these guns being like.  On the demonstration they fired individually and one at a time but at a very rapid rate

Maybe, but I'm not familiar with any such mount.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2012, 11:27:16 PM »
Maybe, but I'm not familiar with any such mount.
Cheers,
Logan

I had a chat with my buddy this morning who was in the Canadian Army for over 30 years, I asked him if what I saw, was what I saw.  He immediately asked if the muzzles had cones on and when I said yes he said 'Bofors, they came off the ships'.  When I said were they installed in small turrets on trailers he said yes to that question.  Now I just need to find a photo or two of the set-up, I thought I had taken photos when I was at Cold Lake of them but it was back before digital cameras (at least me having a digital) so the photos are in a box somewhere but I can't find them now (too many house moves in a three years period to keep track of things)

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2012, 07:25:42 AM »
kit': This is very odd. The guns described sound very much like the 40mm/56 Mk.V Bofors from the old Tribal class DDEs. But those ships were paid off back in 1964-1966. The only Canadian naval guns converted to land-based AD I've ever heard of are the 40/60 Boffins.

Just for completeness, the 40mm Boffins were QF Bofors mounted on Mark VC Oerlikon mounts. 202 Workshop Depot modified them for airfield air defence duties in Germany. Boffins went to 128 AAD Bty RCA (Baden-Soellingen) and 129 AAD Bty RCA (Lahr) in 1975. But the single-barrelled Boffins didn't have turret covers.

BTW, after withdrawl in 1987, some of those Boffins went back to sea, arming the MCDV patrol boats.
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2012, 10:45:40 PM »
Apop', googling photos of the two guns you list, neither look quite like what I saw, similar though.  The barrels of the AD guns I saw looked like the 40/60 barrels, only they were set low in a small turret in pairs like the 40mm/56 Mk.V.  The closest I can describe how the guns were mounted on the trailer is how you see this below, only with a turret

The turrets didn't look big enough for human loaders to be inside them but I might be wrong there.  IIRC there was more than one on display and they were controlled by a remote radar unit set on it's own trailer.

In the display area they were close together, but my buddy says they would have been placed more widely apart in the field.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2012, 06:06:09 PM »
Sure you weren't mistaking 20mm guns for 40mm ones?  Your picture is of a twin 20mm system.

The Rh202 based twin 20mm AA guns had cone flash hiders on their muzzles and they might have confused you (although I'm unaware of Canada ever operating such AA guns):



I am unaware also of any twin 40mm towed systems in use anywhere.  The only operational twin 40mm Bofors systems that I'm aware of that were land based were SPAA - US M19, M42 and M247 systems.  There were several experimental ones during WWII as well but they never reached production.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Anti-Aircraft: SPAAG/SAM Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2012, 10:38:50 PM »
Further down the thread I said it was twin 40mm Bofors type guns set in a turret, I was describing how it looked and the pic I posted in my last post was the only pic I could find on how the unit looked with the guns mounted low down, I didn't say it was that particular unit.