Author Topic: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 21459 times)

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Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« on: February 11, 2012, 04:48:25 AM »
Hi folks,

A thread for your Submarine Ideas and Inspiration.



Regards,

Greg
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2012, 05:00:10 AM »
Some interesting reading here (click on banner):

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Offline raafif

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2012, 06:28:07 AM »
something I'm still going to build ... oneday.


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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2012, 11:26:55 AM »
Well, how about the title submersible from Scott Carpenter's Steel Albatros, a submersible that depended on hydrodynamic surfaces rather than buoyancy.  Come to think of it, Martin Caidin had something similar in a novel dating from 1969 or so.

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2012, 12:58:09 PM »
The He-111 fuselage is nearly a ready submarine shape from whence to work.   So is a B-29's.   
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Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2012, 01:06:17 PM »
Nimrod MRs would lend themselves nicely as well.  Invert and you have some nice saddle tanks.
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Offline Geoff

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2012, 02:16:21 AM »
How about a Type XXI with extended sail and 2 vertical launch tubes for SLBMs not totally dissimilar to the Soviet Zulu V?

Cue scots accent
"We will sit off their cities and listen to their jazz music while we conduct missile drills!"
With appologies to "Hunt for Red October" fans

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2012, 03:46:30 AM »
How about a Type XXI with extended sail and 2 vertical launch tubes for SLBMs not totally dissimilar to the Soviet Zulu V?

Cue scots accent
"We will sit off their cities and listen to their jazz music while we conduct missile drills!"
With appologies to "Hunt for Red October" fans

It is a great idea - I have thought along similar lines (using either the Zulu or Golf class as a basis).  Have developments of the V-2 as the missiles.

Of course, in such a case, wouldn't the accent be more Germanish:

"Vee vill sit off their cities and listen to their jazz music while vee conduct missile drills!"  - apologies to everyone!!!
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2012, 05:03:43 AM »
Of course on another tangent, one could go for a Type XXI development mirroring the Whisky Twin Cylinders using V-1 developments:


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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2012, 03:04:46 AM »
My attempts into this area have been quite tame.  I explored the utility of 1/700 scale submarine hulls and discovered that I would have been better off with using drop tanks from larger scale aircraft as a primary hull due to the small size.  The bonus is that I now have a couple of very large torpedo shapes that could find their way on to a larger scale aircraft. 

Using 1/350th scale hulls of the Kilo SS to try and come up with a submersible of similar dimensions to the old Royal Navy X-Craft mini-submarines proved to be more practical.  Using only the top halves of two Kilos glued together to get a more angular shape in cross-section it could become something practical in 1/72nd or 1/144th scale.  Though the same attempt with a 1/350th scale HMS Astute led to a less than spectacular achievement thanks to the soft plastic and extreme warpage of the hull parts.  The resulting longer hull did have some potential as a possible what-if swimmer delivery vehicle/mini-submarine if I can find the time and effort to pursue that to completion. 

One good thing that resulted from this was an increase in Brian's airship fleet when he was able to use the discarded lower hull sections to build two airships models of which one was shared here on the forum while the other I believe is still under construction. 
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2012, 02:48:36 AM »
What is the name of the Russian sub that was rumored to be sunk by an American destroyer in the 60's?   And links to factual info?


Thanks,
Daryl J.
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2012, 03:32:43 AM »
Of course on another tangent, one could go for a Type XXI development mirroring the Whisky Twin Cylinders using V-1 developments: <...>

Most interesting! I have a Revell 1/144 XXI earmarked for whiffing into something akin to a Chinese Type 33G, but this looks even more plausible.
Cheers,
Moritz

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2012, 05:07:55 AM »
Of course on another tangent, one could go for a Type XXI development mirroring the Whisky Twin Cylinders using V-1 developments: <...>

Most interesting! I have a Revell 1/144 XXI earmarked for whiffing into something akin to a Chinese Type 33G, but this looks even more plausible.

It is doable.  Mind you, I am seriously looking at doing the XXI based SSB.
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Offline finsrin

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2012, 06:21:18 AM »
Air launched submarine.
Small type attack sub carried by B-36 or B-52.  Glides to water on wings which are discarded.
Maybe start with a 1/350 sub.  Revell box scale Nautilus?   Or whatever sizes to fit under-in 1/72 B-36 or B-52.
That means also building a USN B-36 or B-52.
That is a project for you  ;)

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2012, 06:35:14 AM »
Air launched submarine.
Small type attack sub carried by B-36 or B-52.  Glides to water on wings which are discarded.
Maybe start with a 1/350 sub.  Revell box scale Nautilus?   Or whatever sizes to fit under-in 1/72 B-36 or B-52.
That means also building a USN B-36 or B-52.
That is a project for you  ;)

Along those lines, didn't the Japanese use Betty Bombers to fly the Ohkas to the target area?  I wonder if they could carry small Kaitens in the same way?!  ???
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2012, 08:37:12 AM »
Cool idea!
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Offline finsrin

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2012, 08:55:17 AM »
B-50 could do same with smaller version of the sub.

Offline Weaver

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2012, 01:35:19 AM »
Last night, I reluctantly passed on one of these on ebay, partly because it was too expensive, partly because I've got too many kits and not enough time, and partly because I didn't have a specific whiffy idea for it:




From here (review and sprue shots): http://www.modelingmadness.com/review/misc/wallsysub.htm


Sod's Law, as soon as it had gone, I had the elusive idea....

It's a silly vehicle right? So to whiff it, make it deadly serious. Give it torpedo tubes, deck guns, a coat of battered grey paint, kill markings, a bloodthirsty mascot on the conning tower and a grim-faced crew preparing it for another patrol. Then concoct a back-story about it being commandeered at the start of WWIII and a "war-is-hell" account of it's exploits and fate..... >:D
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Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2012, 01:49:22 AM »
I've only seen this concept design once on Ryan Crierie's Flickr account but it looks really neat and suites the 1950's alot! 

Take a look:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63014123@N02/5756073647/#in/set-72157626674107805
Its an SSG with vertical launching nukes and a twin enclosed 5"/38 wet mount on the back of the sail!  :o

He has some other neat concept art too including some submarine oil tankers meant for the Arctic!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63014123@N02/5756055941/#in/set-72157626674107805
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63014123@N02/5756058599/#in/set-72157626674107805

"Radials growl, inlines purr, jets blow!"  -Anonymous

"Helos don't fly.  They vibrate so violently that the ground rejects them."  -Tom Clancy

"If all else fails, call in an air strike."  -Anonymous

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2012, 02:05:17 AM »
What is the name of the Russian sub that was rumored to be sunk by an American destroyer in the 60's?   And links to factual info?


There appears to be no name attributed to the object attacked by the USS McKean (DD-784) and USS Frank Knox (DD-742) on December 18, 1950. 
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Offline deathjester

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2012, 05:12:45 AM »
How about a submersible landing craft?  Completely stealthy approach, total surprise when they surface and beach!

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2012, 01:12:01 PM »
Don't see why not, Germany was starting to design submersible S-boats at the end of the war - they were to sail up to 10 mtrs under the surface then pop up to attack - rather like the wolf-pack idea.  Their underwater speed may have been very slow unless Walter-powered ???

Offline Weaver

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2012, 08:58:24 PM »
I've heard tell of modern submersible RIBs used by special forces: high speed on the surface then submerge for the last few stealthy miles.
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2012, 11:23:31 PM »
I've always been partial to the Soviet Project 621 and Project 728 submarine LSTs.

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2012, 02:58:58 AM »
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 03:13:50 AM by Cliffy B »
"Radials growl, inlines purr, jets blow!"  -Anonymous

"Helos don't fly.  They vibrate so violently that the ground rejects them."  -Tom Clancy

"If all else fails, call in an air strike."  -Anonymous

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2013, 10:49:48 AM »
Frank Tinsley concept for a submarine aircraft carrier  8)
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2504.0;attach=184698;image

Via Secret Projects.
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2013, 11:59:25 AM »
For a submarine carrier, I keep thinking of something the size of a Typhoon or larger using Skyhook and Harriers.

Offline Rafael

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2013, 07:53:25 PM »
My current Favorite: The French DCNS SMX-26 Cayman. Note the steadying wheels to floor and maintain position, the ample wet room for divers and equipment, and the mast-mounted missile and gun systems, among other features. Shades of Sky-1's submarine portion. It only lacks the sub-launched fighter!






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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2013, 03:19:49 AM »
My current Favorite: The French DCNS SMX-26 Cayman. Note the steadying wheels to floor and maintain position, the ample wet room for divers and equipment, and the mast-mounted missile and gun systems, among other features. Shades of Sky-1's submarine portion. It only lacks the sub-launched fighter!

Thanks for sharing the videos.  Was not aware of this design concept and it certainly appeals to my interest in small submersibles. 

Wish they had something like that for the DayZ game :)

« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 03:53:32 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline father ennis

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2013, 03:42:11 AM »
Way Kool !!!  Very interesting !!!!
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Offline Rafael

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2013, 07:08:41 AM »
Yep. Made me retrieve my U-212 coastal raider from The pile. Now, If I could find some Nortrhop-Grumman NNEMO 3-views or Tango-Bravo Concepts to sub-scale.... ;)
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Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2013, 09:12:53 AM »
Yep. Made me retrieve my U-212 coastal raider from The pile. Now, If I could find some Northrop-Grumman NNEMO 3-views or Tango-Bravo Concepts to sub-scale.... ;)

Floaty GB, Floaty GB, Floaty GB!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2013, 01:58:40 AM »
For a submarine carrier, I keep thinking of something the size of a Typhoon or larger using Skyhook and Harriers.
A follow-on to my previous idea, a submersible assault carrier based on a stretched Typhoon.  One pressure hull would have accomodations for the pilots, maintainers, and marines while the other would hold three V-22s that could be elevated to the upper hull and unfolded.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 11:55:09 AM by elmayerle »

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2013, 02:18:59 AM »
A follow-on to my previous idea, a submersible assault carrier based on a stretched Typhoon.  One pressure hull would have accommodations for the pilots, maintainers, and marines while the other would hold three V-22s that could be elevated to the upper hull and unfolded.


Knew I saw one before: http://www.arcair.com/Gal10/9401-9500/gal9498-Sub-Petrie/00.shtm
"Radials growl, inlines purr, jets blow!"  -Anonymous

"Helos don't fly.  They vibrate so violently that the ground rejects them."  -Tom Clancy

"If all else fails, call in an air strike."  -Anonymous

Offline father ennis

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2013, 12:59:41 PM »
Now that is a very interesting build ,indeed ... !!!
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Offline M.A.D

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2013, 06:37:05 AM »
Of course on another tangent, one could go for a Type XXI development mirroring the Whisky Twin Cylinders using V-1 developments:

So sea-launched V-1's!
That would have added another eliment of 'terror' to these weapon's against the likes of Britain (and for that mater the United States!). Although how long would it take for the sub's to be exposed on the surface, to assemble the V-1 wings, fuel and launch these missiles? Coastal Command was very on the ball by 1944!! But still me like the concept!!

M.A.D

Offline Alvis 3.1

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2013, 03:06:50 AM »
A follow-on to my previous idea, a submersible assault carrier based on a stretched Typhoon.  One pressure hull would have accommodations for the pilots, maintainers, and marines while the other would hold three V-22s that could be elevated to the upper hull and unfolded.


Knew I saw one before: http://www.arcair.com/Gal10/9401-9500/gal9498-Sub-Petrie/00.shtm


Lol...that was a fun build! Sadly, at the end, I realised what a colossal waste of resources such a vehicle would be. You'd lose all those missiles and their MIRVed warheads for the ability to carry a few planes with limited range and payload. Looks cool tho. I got the idea from a computer game in the Late 80s, "F-18", where you had to dogfight MiG-29s near San Francisco, and at level 8 you find they've been flying off a submersible carrier. I never did sink that damn thing, but I did accidentally land on it once...and was re-armed! An orbiting MiG-29 then promptly shot me right off the deck!  >:D

Alvis 3.1

Offline Geoff

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2013, 03:25:47 AM »
How about the Germans transferring some of the Type IIB U-Boats to the Finns to harass the Soviet Baltic fleet? Splinter cammo, yellow sail band?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2013, 04:53:17 AM »
How about the Germans transferring some of the Type IIB U-Boats to the Finns to harass the Soviet Baltic fleet? Splinter cammo, yellow sail band?


In a way, this did happen - look up Vesikko ;)

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Offline Geoff

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2013, 04:54:44 AM »
Yep and the Type II was based on a Finn design

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2013, 04:59:10 AM »
I believe it is/was actually a German design ...
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Offline Geoff

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2013, 05:04:16 AM »
CV-707 was designed by a Dutchman, built by the Finns and was the direct prototype for the KM's Type IIA boats. Or I misread it.

Amendment - nope the Dutch company was set up by the Germans - So it's a German design, you are correct sir! :o
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 05:07:41 AM by Geoff »

Offline raafif

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2013, 06:18:12 AM »
How about the Germans transferring some of the Type IIB U-Boats to the Finns to harass the Soviet Baltic fleet? Splinter cammo, yellow sail band?

the yellow band may have to be painted out for ops ......
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 08:46:30 AM by raafif »

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2013, 11:32:24 PM »
The yellow band denoted that the sub was being used for training purposes.  I don't think it was used for anything else.  Just saying.

LOVE the splinter camo on those subs!!!!!  Please do some more  8)
"Radials growl, inlines purr, jets blow!"  -Anonymous

"Helos don't fly.  They vibrate so violently that the ground rejects them."  -Tom Clancy

"If all else fails, call in an air strike."  -Anonymous

Offline raafif

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2013, 08:47:33 AM »
Finnish aircraft like the Buffalo used yellow nose & fuselage bands and under the outer-wings in combat (winter) so on the subs it could just be a national marking ....... profile above updated ...
I won't be doing any others unless you have a specific need.

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2013, 09:33:11 AM »
Never mind what I said about the yellow band....  I saw U-Boat and yellow band and completely missed the part that these subs are NOT used by the Germans in this case.... :-X

Don't mind me  :icon_beer:
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2013, 03:20:38 PM »
I thought the Yellow on the aircraft was to tie in with the Luftwaffe Theatre markings for the Eastern front (see below for example)?

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Offline jcf

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2013, 09:12:21 AM »
Saunders-Roe/SARO P.212 nuclear powered commercial cargo sub.


source: From River To Sea: The Marine Heritage of Sam Saunders
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 11:39:50 AM by jcf »
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #48 on: October 25, 2013, 12:22:55 PM »
There was a sort of cargo carrying submarine that was part of the story in a science fiction book that I read a very long time ago.  I can not remember the title or the author. 

The submarine was actually a tug that pulled a very large submarine oil barge.  The submarine tug was armed with a number of torpedoes and drones located around the exterior of the hull.  The plot had something to do with moving the oil from a disputed area back to the United States and it involved a long submarine tunnel that exited into the Gulf of Mexico.  All very fantastic from the descriptions in the book. 
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 12:25:40 PM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2013, 12:30:32 PM »
There was a sort of cargo carrying submarine that was part of the story in a science fiction book that I read a very long time ago.  I can not remember the title or the author. 

The submarine was actually a tug that pulled a very large submarine oil barge.  The submarine tug was armed with a number of torpedoes and drones located around the exterior of the hull.  The plot had something to do with moving the oil from a disputed area back to the United States and it involved a long submarine tunnel that exited into the Gulf of Mexico.  All very fantastic from the descriptions in the book.
Under Pressure by Frank Herbert, his last major work before he got involved with Dune.  I believe it's also been published as 21st Century Sub and possibly other titles; I haven't had the chance to consult ISFDB.

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2013, 12:37:32 PM »
There was a sort of cargo carrying submarine that was part of the story in a science fiction book that I read a very long time ago.  I can not remember the title or the author. 

The submarine was actually a tug that pulled a very large submarine oil barge.  The submarine tug was armed with a number of torpedoes and drones located around the exterior of the hull.  The plot had something to do with moving the oil from a disputed area back to the United States and it involved a long submarine tunnel that exited into the Gulf of Mexico.  All very fantastic from the descriptions in the book.
Under Pressure by Frank Herbert, his last major work before he got involved with Dune.  I believe it's also been published as 21st Century Sub and possibly other titles; I haven't had the chance to consult ISFDB.
Thanks Evan,

Figured you would be the one to know or remember the name of the book and the author :)

I read that book in the very early 70s and according to Wikipedia it was also titled as The Dragon in the Sea first published in 1956. 
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2013, 12:55:44 PM »
My ideas for submarines lie more along the lines of using their hulls for spaceships by mating the superstructures from 1/700 ships to the top and fitting engines.  Think the Tiger Claw from Wing Commander ......

However thinking further advanced underwater combat needs plenty of spatial distance. I'm thinking that Jupiters moon Europa, which is thought to have twice as much water as Earth, would be the perfect environment for underwater habitats, bases and large scale combat as large corporations fight for it's control (water is actually the Solar Sytems second most precious substance).

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #52 on: October 25, 2013, 02:09:33 PM »
Jap submersible oil-tank

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #53 on: October 26, 2013, 03:13:50 AM »
I suppose submarine transports is one way to make life harder for the pirates... ;D
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #54 on: October 26, 2013, 04:02:09 AM »
maybe the pirates get in league with the cocain smugglers & build their own subs in order to attack from beneath the waves ;)  Done properly it could work well ... unlike in the movie "Assault on a Queen" where one crewman's greed got them sunk :icon_sueno: -- yeah, I barrack for the baddies.

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #55 on: October 26, 2013, 05:27:22 AM »
Saunders-Roe/SARO P.212 nuclear powered commercial cargo sub.


That could possibly provide a basis for a good submarine aircraft carrier.
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2014, 02:34:26 AM »
Concept diagram of a Concrete Submarine:

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2014, 05:42:17 AM »
The concrete sub design, with its nose-only inlets and exhausts, reminds me of a line from one of Voltaire's songs...

Star Trekkin'
Across the Universe
Boldly Going forward
'Cause we can't find 'Reverse'!


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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2014, 08:47:06 AM »
There was a sort of cargo carrying submarine that was part of the story in a science fiction book that I read a very long time ago.  I can not remember the title or the author. 

The submarine was actually a tug that pulled a very large submarine oil barge.  The submarine tug was armed with a number of torpedoes and drones located around the exterior of the hull.  The plot had something to do with moving the oil from a disputed area back to the United States and it involved a long submarine tunnel that exited into the Gulf of Mexico.  All very fantastic from the descriptions in the book.
Under Pressure by Frank Herbert, his last major work before he got involved with Dune.  I believe it's also been published as 21st Century Sub and possibly other titles; I haven't had the chance to consult ISFDB.
Thanks Evan,

Figured you would be the one to know or remember the name of the book and the author :)

I read that book in the very early 70s and according to Wikipedia it was also titled as The Dragon in the Sea first published in 1956.

Actually, I first read it in the serialized form in Astounding Science Fiction from my father's collection.  The old gentleman corrupted rather well with that collection and I could never thank him enough.

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #59 on: November 09, 2014, 11:12:25 AM »
Luxury sub anyone:

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #60 on: February 23, 2015, 02:58:13 AM »
Some novel propulsion concepts:







All from "Design Study Report: A Survey of Conventional and Unconventional Submarine Propulsion System" from the Defense Technical Information Center website
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2015, 05:41:09 AM »
Coo, real world design:  Soviet P-2 super-sub



More info
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #62 on: August 08, 2015, 01:08:35 PM »
Damn, that's practically a complete underwater base in itself.  I think I'd figure out a way to have elevators raise the missiles for firing rather than hoisting them as that would expose fewer people and likely take less time.  Be a heck of a model in 1/350 scale.  *chuckle* Imagine a radar-picket version with a larger number of Wasserfall derivatives.

Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2015, 03:51:45 PM »
I've always wanted to build a "fighter sub" based on the principals of the Hawkes deep flight falcon.... The reasoning being that stealth tech will advance so much, that the only way to combat them would be through visual detection from small manned or unmanned sub's launched from a larger hunter killer or nuclear vessel, this could even eventually lead to underwater dogfights :D

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #64 on: August 09, 2015, 12:49:28 AM »
 The Soviet P-2 is pretty cool - is there a smaller image someplace?

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #65 on: August 09, 2015, 04:40:06 AM »
The Soviet P-2 is pretty cool - is there a smaller image someplace?


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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2015, 02:07:23 AM »
I've always wanted to build a "fighter sub" based on the principals of the Hawkes deep flight falcon.... The reasoning being that stealth tech will advance so much, that the only way to combat them would be through visual detection from small manned or unmanned sub's launched from a larger hunter killer or nuclear vessel, this could even eventually lead to underwater dogfights :D
Might be interesting to see what could be done by working strictly with hydrodynamic lift instead of using buoyancy to rise or descend, though you'd probably need a rugged hull.  See, for example, the U.S. deep combat submarines of Martin Caidin's The Last Fathom.

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2015, 04:09:12 AM »
If you look carefully at the drawings he used for the P2 cutaway, you'll see that the 'mini-subs' each contain
a T-34ish tank, making it likely the mini-subs were intended as landing craft.
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #68 on: August 10, 2015, 11:51:43 PM »
We semi-regularly return to the topic of "fighter" submarines at work as a fun little exercise, either operating on their own or as squadron leaders for a pack of UUV. Since they have much smaller hull diameters the hulls can be disproportionately thick and strong compared to their motherships. Also, with shorter endurance more mass can be put into structure as there are less systems. However the cost of depth for such a boat would be in any water-facing systems. Cooling circuits, sensors etc will all be exposed to the external pressure and these will *also* need to be stronger, which can get really expensive (and risky). This is why Deep Flight uses wings as they can't fail like a pressure-facing deballasting system and don't have some of the... control issues that ascent by blowing one's tanks does.

Hydrodynamic lift is really important for conventional submarines - there are reasons why one would want to avoid using ones ballast tanks and putting a small trim on the boat will generate lift easily (plus the effect of the thrust direction). The trade-off is that the wings add a lot of skin friction, which increases drag - this is a bit of a killer for submarines because of the energy storage problem. (plus drag => noise as it means there's more energy being put into the water one way or another).

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #69 on: August 13, 2015, 05:36:38 PM »
http://www.silvercrestsubmarines.co.uk/images/clip_image006_009.jpg

What could you use to build something similar to the deep flight challenger though?? Can't think of any aircraft similar to it. And what would be the armourmant of choice? Laser guided, or simply use the thing as a ram like Verne's nautilus?

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #70 on: August 13, 2015, 11:44:47 PM »
http://www.silvercrestsubmarines.co.uk/images/clip_image006_009.jpg

What could you use to build something similar to the deep flight challenger though?? Can't think of any aircraft similar to it. And what would be the armourmant of choice? Laser guided, or simply use the thing as a ram like Verne's nautilus?


A suitable body shape might be found in the form of a model race car body.  Formula One, Le Mans, Indianapolis, or perhaps a drag racer.
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #71 on: August 14, 2015, 12:25:58 AM »
Start with a piece of wood and the modern fighter canopy of yer choice.  ;)



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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #72 on: August 14, 2015, 02:36:28 AM »
Given these real world ones:



Why not use a E.381 kit as a starting point for an underwater 'fighter':

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #73 on: August 14, 2015, 02:38:51 AM »
Or alternatively, what about a Heinkel "Lerche II":

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #74 on: August 14, 2015, 02:41:01 AM »
A Trader Federation Droid Fighter might also provide an interesting starting point:

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #75 on: August 14, 2015, 02:47:35 AM »
Of course an issue with any "submarine fighter" is what sort of weapons to use. My initial thought might be some form of mini, non-nuclear VA-111 Shkval derivative.
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #76 on: August 14, 2015, 02:59:30 AM »
Back to the Star Wars link, an A-wing kit might also provide a useful starting point for a "submarine fighter":

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #77 on: August 14, 2015, 03:58:25 AM »
The creative juices are flowing :D I love the idea of using the E.381 as a starting point, but from a practical point of view, I'd say that using the star fighters wouldn't be good shapes to deal with the pressure effectively, something with a cylindrical  or razor back hull would be better :) also, I reckon the design should follow 5th gen aircraft stealth principals too

Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #78 on: August 14, 2015, 04:03:05 AM »
Just thought, the Henschel Hs.132 would be a great base... Can just picture it in RN colours, similar to the fleet air arm, maybe with shark mouth nose art and everything :D
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 04:05:39 AM by RAFF-35 »

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #79 on: August 14, 2015, 08:44:06 AM »
Back to the Star Wars link, an A-wing kit might also provide a useful starting point for a "submarine fighter":




Actually, looking at it, I think this'd make a great starting point, expecially if you fitted a Tie Fighter cockpit section in place of the existing one (sphere being the strongest pressure-resistant shape).
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #80 on: August 15, 2015, 02:41:23 AM »
Just thought, the Henschel Hs.132 would be a great base...


Maybe...though kits of it a rare...
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #81 on: August 15, 2015, 02:50:23 AM »
but from a practical point of view, I'd say that using the star fighters wouldn't be good shapes to deal with the pressure effectively, something with a cylindrical  or razor back hull would be better :)


I guess it depends upon how deep you are wanting to go and what materials you use.  I was mainly looking for designs that maximised the 'wing' so as to allow for hydrodynamic flying...not to mention were available kits. ;)

I looked at examples such as this from the real world:






also, I reckon the design should follow 5th gen aircraft stealth principals too


Which particular aspects?
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #82 on: August 15, 2015, 03:16:26 AM »
Going away from submarine fighters for a bit:

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #83 on: August 15, 2015, 04:08:18 AM »
There's a steady supply of both Hs.132's  by RS models, on eBay, I've bought one before and the overall quality is fairly good actually :D and I'm not sure how well it would transfer over, but the concept of underwater AESA sonar? Also having internal weapons, low sonar cross section, saw tooth edges, sonar absorbing materials and paints etc etc, sound reduction as well :)

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #84 on: August 15, 2015, 04:16:58 AM »
Bah!  1/72 is too small... ;)
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #85 on: August 15, 2015, 04:22:53 AM »
Hahaha, its how you use it that counts ;)

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #86 on: August 15, 2015, 04:28:16 AM »
A Trader Federation Droid Fighter might also provide an interesting starting point:




My thinking is that this would be a UCUV - Uninhabited Combat Underwater Vehicle
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #87 on: August 15, 2015, 08:10:44 AM »
The various TIE fighters would make good starting points for mini-subs since the spherical cockpit is an ideal pressure vessel.
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #88 on: August 16, 2015, 02:55:02 AM »
The various TIE fighters would make good starting points for mini-subs since the spherical cockpit is an ideal pressure vessel.


I would probably use the TIE Advanced (see below) for the starting point.  The thicker sections would provide more to use.



One could possibly also use the JEDI Fighter as a starting point:

« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 03:04:18 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #89 on: August 17, 2015, 03:29:01 AM »
Here's the weird thing:  I keep raising the idea of turning star fighters into submersibles...and yet plan to model a submersible (see below for kit) as a spacecraft. :-\

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #90 on: August 17, 2015, 10:55:18 AM »
Why not? ???

The sphere is the strongest pressure vessel shape, whether the pressure be applied from inside or out, followed fairly closely by the ovoid (cylinder comes in a fairly distant 3rd).
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #91 on: August 19, 2015, 11:44:50 PM »
Heres the initial sketches of the project ive started today...


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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #92 on: August 20, 2015, 03:01:30 AM »
Interesting...could also double as a UCAV. ;)
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #93 on: August 20, 2015, 03:44:42 AM »
Hahaha, I doubt it, the wings are from a 1:144 f-104 :D you guys were saying that a star fighter would be a good place to start ;)

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #94 on: August 21, 2015, 03:35:50 AM »
Hahaha, I doubt it, the wings are from a 1:144 f-104 :D you guys were saying that a star fighter would be a good place to start ;)

What scale/source is the rest?

If one has enough body lift one doesn't necessarily need wings...
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #95 on: August 21, 2015, 05:27:59 PM »
True, but agility/stability would be greatly improved with the addition of winglettes, and heres progress so far, should reveal some clues   ;)




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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #96 on: August 22, 2015, 03:05:15 AM »
Looking good - you should move this to its own build thread.
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #97 on: August 22, 2015, 05:08:09 AM »
I'm planning on it :D

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #98 on: August 29, 2015, 04:35:48 AM »
Another possible candidate for conversion to an underwater "fighter":

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #99 on: January 09, 2016, 05:53:17 AM »
Cool:
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #100 on: June 09, 2016, 05:54:44 PM »


U-Boot Type XXI with Vergeltungswaffe1/V1



U-Boot Typ XXI with Vergeltungswaffe2/V2

Source: Facebook Oxygino Aviation Art
 
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #101 on: June 10, 2016, 04:16:59 AM »
Interesting.  I have planned a V-2 launching U-boat but was going more the Golf-class approach with missiles in an extended sail:

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #102 on: June 15, 2016, 02:00:40 AM »
1/350 aircraft-carrying submarine!   :icon_beer:
More pics on scalemodels.ru: LINK!



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Moritz

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Offline jcf

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #103 on: June 15, 2016, 02:59:29 AM »
... and the noise it makes while submerged can be detected by people standing on a beach half an ocean away.  ;D
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Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #104 on: June 15, 2016, 04:44:30 AM »
Wow!  How soon will Sparky start posting images of that submarine model on the Combat Reform page? :)





***Edit for glaring grammar error.  Sure took me long enough to realize it.   ::)
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 07:16:43 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #105 on: September 15, 2016, 05:30:17 AM »
I got a personal tour through HMAS Rankin (see below) yesterday whilst it was in for major maintenance.  Quite interesting to see the sub and its systems all opened up.

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #106 on: September 15, 2016, 05:43:52 PM »
Sort of forget you are inside one after a while, if you've ever been on the O boat at Sydney the difference is amazing.

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #107 on: September 15, 2016, 07:57:42 PM »
It's also interesting to see them without much of their outer shell
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #108 on: September 15, 2016, 10:08:45 PM »
Yep, should see them when the diesels are stripped.  My first time on board I was amazed at the space in them, the new ones will be even bigger.

Offline Story

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #109 on: February 02, 2018, 05:32:04 AM »

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #110 on: February 03, 2018, 02:16:01 AM »
I seem to recall that someone did a diorama of that.
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #111 on: February 05, 2018, 02:27:52 AM »
?


Offline Story

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #112 on: February 05, 2018, 02:30:57 AM »
I've always thought these black and white images of shipwrecks in general have a nightmarish tone. Maybe it's the implication of the unseen sea monster now beached, where it can not be ignored.






Offline Story

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #113 on: February 05, 2018, 02:38:00 AM »
For those of you intrigued, COMBAT MODELS offers two WWI U-Boat kits http://combatmodels.us/72_ships.html

Kit review here http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/7/t/160719.aspx

As far as the beachside tourist throng, Preiser offers an HO scale package of 130 UNPAINTED Spectators and Pedestrians.
See http://www.hobbylinc.com/cgi-bin/s8.cgi?cat_s=UJC&mfg_s=psr&tag0_i=816

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #114 on: April 25, 2018, 06:48:07 AM »
I think these belong here...maybe...

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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #115 on: May 08, 2018, 12:46:35 AM »
Reaching the limits of submarine.

Submarine Battleship. in a certain way it could be like a 'BIG' Surcouf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_submarine_Surcouf

Submarine Aircraft Carrier.


Offline jcf

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #116 on: May 10, 2018, 07:59:07 AM »
Interwar USN cruiser sub concepts:








"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #117 on: May 10, 2018, 09:44:53 PM »
And then, you've got these submarine aircraft carriers that the cruisers could protect...

https://goo.gl/images/fGVSJC

https://goo.gl/images/9pgDdz


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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #118 on: May 11, 2018, 12:12:45 AM »
And let us not forget they would be escorting the large submarine LSD envisioned in the 1950's.  This was covered in Norman Polmar's Cold War Submarines: The Design and Construction of U.S. and Soviet Submarines, 1945-2001 .

Offline jcf

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #119 on: May 11, 2018, 05:56:16 AM »
Those 1920ís designs were basically for submersible cruisers performing the older role of
the cruiser: long range independent patrol, control of the sea lanes, commerce raiding etc.,
not so much the later cruiser role of fleet screening, escorting, and outright defense.
Theyíd be ineffective in those roles.

"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #120 on: May 11, 2018, 06:01:21 AM »
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #121 on: May 12, 2018, 01:21:22 AM »
Any more info?  Who was it for?
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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #122 on: May 12, 2018, 01:41:13 AM »
US Navy.
"Evil our grandsires were, our fathers worse;
And we, till now unmatched in ill,
Must leave successors more corrupted still."
Horace, 65BC - 8BC. Marsh translation.

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Submarine Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #123 on: May 12, 2018, 11:58:25 PM »
First approach to Submarine Aircraft Carrier and Battleship. These are based on 2 bottom KGV hulls (remain of waterline cutting) glued together.