Author Topic: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors  (Read 2932 times)

Offline kitnut617

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AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« on: May 14, 2018, 11:03:56 PM »
I've been working my way through a couple of other tilt-rotor projects. With lots of consultations with Evan who has helped me form my ideas.


Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2018, 11:08:04 PM »
From a couple of years ago, I thought about an E-22 AWAC. Thoughts came about after what I've read about the Falklands War and the lack of AEW the Brits didn't have.

These couple of pics are what I thought would work.  The idea is the radome would extend downwards on a streamlined boom. I'm still working on the mechanism for that and I'm using an old 1/72 Esci kit as a base.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2018, 11:10:41 PM »
This next one is much more involved, the idea is Bell produce a gunship variant of the V-22. Going with their Cobra heritage and mixing in the V-22 systems.

Offline kerick

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2018, 11:17:25 PM »
Very interesting! I’ve often thought about what a gunship version would look like.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2018, 11:18:13 PM »
As has been commented here and on other forums, where to put the armament on a V-22 is a bit of a problem as anything positioned to fire forward while in forward flight would mean everything has to be in front of the prop-rotor to avoid conflict with spinning prop-rotor and ordnance flying forward. 

But I thought of a way around it and thanks to Evan, the idea has progressed quite a bit lately. My first thought were to shorten the blades of the prop-rotor but then add more of them to each engine. I worked it out I could get five blades around the original spinner but then Evan told me I would have to add the counter-weights to each blade. He said six blades would be better as they would self-balance each opposing blade.

So I reworked what I had done and found six wouldn't fit around the original spinner, so I sourced a bigger spinner where six blades would work.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 03:04:19 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2018, 11:22:15 PM »
The bigger spinner meant that I had to rework the nacelle to match the spinner diameter. After some more consultation with Evan, I found I could use the original engine part of the nacelle and the exhaust area but then attach them to a new part for the gearbox area.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 07:50:55 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2018, 11:37:15 PM »
Then it was on to figuring out what to do with the blades. I was going to shorten them by a scale two feet (8.5mm) which quickly went to 2'-6" (10.5mm). But then I thought what if we used a BERP blade tip --- I thought I would use a blade end from an EH-101 Merlin as an example for the shape and discovered that the Merlin and Osprey blades have the same chord length. So it was just a simple matter of copying the Merlin BERP end for my prop-rotors.  However, I decided to shorten them again by another scale foot (14.5mm).

In this pic, the blade is still only shortened by 8.5mm, I'll get some more pics taken sometime today of how the project has progressed.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2018, 11:40:12 PM »
The six blade rotor has a bit of creditability because this Westland project was earmarked for them

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2018, 12:55:14 AM »
What propeller spinner did you select for your increased spinner size on this project?  Something from a late Mark Spitfire?
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2018, 01:20:19 AM »
That's right Jeff, I've used a 1/48 Griffon engine Spitfire spinner (this is a 1/72 scale AV-22).  For the fuselage I've used a wrecked A-10 as a donor and an Italeri V-22 for all of the V-22 parts.  For the nacelle modifications I've used a C-130 'buddy' refueling pod for the new gearbox shape, and for the scoops at the rear end, the large one is from an A-26 Invader underwing gun pod and the smaller one is half a Harrier cold nozzle.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 01:39:31 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2018, 01:29:40 AM »
Reducing the blade length and increasing the quantity of them was because of where I was going to put the ordnance. I had decided to use the V-22 undercarriage bays which I thought would need to be in sponsons. For these I have used a pair of C-130 underwing fuel tanks.

Top pic here, you can see I've attached a short wing stub which comes from a V-22 wing, the idea is that the sponsons will hold the u/c bay and a weapons bay in each one. I've worked out that I could fit up to ten 2.76" (70mm) RP's to the inside of each weapons bay door (there's four of them) and then another fifteen to the inside of each u/c bay door (one for each sponson). Then mounted to the inside of each weapons bay door will be a pair of Hellfires.

In the second pic down, you can see the original u/c bay size, I reduced the length of it so the bay would hold RP's from a LAU-3/61. These would be the short ones as you can see by the RP pod. The weapons bay will have RP's of the longer variety from a LAU-3/61 because the bay length is dictated by the length of the Hellfires.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 01:37:39 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2018, 01:36:03 AM »
You can see I've modified the rear of the sponson with a chisel shape fairing, I developed it out in my AutoCAD. It has a round top to match the tank shape but the bottom has a different shape as you can see in the pics in the previous post.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2018, 01:52:18 AM »
I decided that this AV-22 was going to have a chin turret in typical helicopter gunship style. I've used all the turret bits from an Airfix P-61. What you have is the turret body which gets pinned to a mounting plate which would then be glued to the inside of the fuselage, but a problem arose where I didn't have enough room for it all under the cockpit tub. But the solution to it was very simple, I cut the floor off the front cockpit tub and then glued the mounting plate in it's place (you can just see the black mounting plate under the seat in the top pic).  I then removed the four .5's from the elevating part and mounted an M61 Vulcan taken from an AC-130 kit. I had to make the fuselage under the nose so it would lay parallel with the ground because the gun elevating bit doesn't go upwards and so that the turret fairing is positioned correctly.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2018, 02:03:58 AM »
As I said previously, I've used an A-10 fuselage, the shape of it without the engines looks a bit like a Cobra, only bigger. The fuselage is almost the same length as a V-22.  Because I wanted the classic helicopter gunship cockpit arrangement for it, I noticed that if I tilted the nose downwards so that the top of the rear fuselage was parallel with the ground, it would give quite a good 'stepped-cockpit' (top pic). What I did was removed the GAU-8, the nose wheel bay and the A-10 cockpit out of the nose area altogether. Then I extended the A-10 canopy rail line further down towards the nose until I found a spot where the A-10 windshield fitted naturally (which is quite close to the nose). I used a cockpit tub from an F-14 (switching them around) and then the modified V-22 instrument panel. I then found that the F-14 canopy has a very similar profile where the windshield to canopy face is. The front cockpit is still an 'in-progress' position at the moment though.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 02:06:44 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline elmayerle

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2018, 02:05:28 AM »
Looking good!!  I was happy to help sort this one out.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2018, 02:08:22 AM »
Thanks Evan, all your help has been really appreciated ---

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2018, 02:16:14 AM »
Couple of interesting things about the V-22 and the A-10, they're practically the same length, the horizontal tail plane are almost the same span and have similar chord lengths and the fins are very similar. I'm going to keep the A-10 tail plane but use the V-22 fins, all I had to do was reposition the tail plane from the bottom of the A-10 fuselage and attach it to the top side (top pic).


Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2018, 02:17:54 AM »
These pics show how it will look once it's finished. What I've been doing is working on one side first, figure out what problems are arising, then I'll do the other side.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2018, 03:24:10 AM »
Right now I'm trying to decide how the sponson stub wing will attach to the fuselage, I could just trim the end to match the fuselage or I could get a little technical and do it like how I've seen airliners do it. I've read that the most efficient way aerodynamically, is to have the mating surface perpendicular to the wing spar center line, the airliners have a square-ish wing box which the wing chord butts up to. This makes the perpendicular inter-face. I'm thinking of something along the same lines. What I'll do is have the box side angled outwards at the top because the stub wing is anhedral but then have it continue past the underside of the stub wing a couple of mm's and then turn it downwards so it then goes vertical to the ground. The idea then is to have a couple of under fuselage pylons.  The pylons that I cut off the C-130 tanks would work quite well here.

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2018, 04:39:13 AM »
I always greatly enjoy your play-by-play Robert. Your engineering skills are a wonder to behold.

Both are fantastic concepts but I'm especially liking that AV-22 gunship!

Great stuff!

Brian da Basher

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2018, 05:42:41 AM »
Cheers BdB ------

Offline Gingie

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2018, 07:16:50 AM »
oh, this is so cool!!

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2018, 07:59:09 AM »
Thanks Gingie

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2018, 10:01:38 PM »
Summer construction season has started at the airport so model building might slow down a bit for a while. But it's the May long weekend and I'll try to get some things done to this project. Mainly it will be repairing the fuselage where it had got broken when the A-10 came down from where it was hanging on the ceiling. Plus the two areas where I have removed the engines and switched the tail planes from bottom to top. Need to get these all finalized before I can progress to other details.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2018, 12:56:19 AM »
Well things haven't gone to plan, been doing lots of work around the property instead of model building, problem of wanting to do the acreage thing I suppose.

But I have done some to the AV-22.

I had cut out sections of the fuselage to remove the large wing root fairings but when I went to put in some replacement styrene, to my horror, the whole rear end of the fuselage broke off  ---    :o

For the repair I decided to remove the wing from the top of the fuselage, which came off a whole lot easier than what I thought it would (I don't think I'll use the liquid cement I used when it comes to re-gluing it back on though). On the plus side, it made repairing the fuselage much easier to do. On top of that I decided to lengthen the fuselage by half an inch.

Here's where I'm at now. all the holes and gaps I'm filling in are done, and the gap you see in the top is where the rear end of the V-22 wing fairing will fit.  I can now visualize how my new wing stub connection to the fuselage better so things are now progressing along quite nicely.

In the side view here, you can see very well the different top and bottom fuselage profile lines. Usually on the A-10, the bottom line is parallel with the ground, but making the top line parallel, tilts the forward fuselage profile line down to give it quite a good cockpit step.

EDIT: added the photos I thought I had attached.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 06:39:21 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline Gingie

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2018, 09:19:17 AM »
Thanks Gingie

I picked up a 48th A-10 at TORCAN because of this!

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2018, 05:39:22 PM »
Thanks Gingie

I picked up a 48th A-10 at TORCAN because of this!


You're going to do one of these in 1/48th ?      8) 8) 8) 8)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2018, 09:06:07 PM »
Some progress just recently, got the other sponson built and the fuselage has had a round of PSR.
But I'm going to try something now, I'll attempt to make the flaps work ------- they need to be multi-posable so they look right with the nacelles in various positions.   

I had to abandon a couple of ideas I had, one idea was to have three pylons under the fuselage (one on each sponson and one on the centerline). But because of how I want the weapons bay doors to work (they will have RP tubes in the doors), I found that the doors would hit whatever was on the pylons when they were opened for RP firing. Likewise with the idea of how I wanted to attach the wing stubs to the fuselage, interfered with the doors again. So back to the original idea of just attaching the stubs to the fuselage and use some wing root fairings. So it will have just the centerline pylon now.

Another idea I had was where to mount the GAU-8 --- originally I wanted to put it in an under-wing-stub semi-recessed pod, but because of where I have to place the sponsons (close to the fuselage) so that the RP's and Hellfires can be fired during a head-on attack, meant I might have to abandon the GAU-8 --- or place it in the front of one of the sponsons. I haven't decided yet.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 09:16:05 PM by kitnut617 »

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2018, 01:46:57 AM »
Another idea I had was where to mount the GAU-8 --- originally I wanted to put it in an under-wing-stub semi-recessed pod, but because of where I have to place the sponsons (close to the fuselage) so that the RP's and Hellfires can be fired during a head-on attack, meant I might have to abandon the GAU-8 --- or place it in the front of one of the sponsons. I haven't decided yet.

Given the GAU-8 is over 6m long, are you sure it will fit as described?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2018, 02:59:28 AM »
Another idea I had was where to mount the GAU-8 --- originally I wanted to put it in an under-wing-stub semi-recessed pod, but because of where I have to place the sponsons (close to the fuselage) so that the RP's and Hellfires can be fired during a head-on attack, meant I might have to abandon the GAU-8 --- or place it in the front of one of the sponsons. I haven't decided yet.

Given the GAU-8 is over 6m long, are you sure it will fit as described?

The idea is just this part would be in the sponson, the drum would be stowed in the fuselage

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2018, 05:20:43 AM »
I suppose another option would be to do a faired in Gepod approach with the ammunition wrapping around the gun:

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2018, 07:20:17 AM »
I had originally thought of using one of those, the problem with it is the chin turret I have under the nose. I don't want any interference between the two guns so the GAU-8 has to be positioned higher than the bottom of the fuselage. I want the chin turret to be operational when the GAU-8 is in use.

The drawing you've attached though, gives a good idea how long the barrels and breach actually is, about 3 meters or 9'-10"
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 07:32:43 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline kerick

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2018, 10:04:20 AM »
What about mounting the turret under the middle of the fuselage. Could still fire in every direction.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2018, 05:45:06 PM »
I thought about that too kerick, but then with the prop-rotors in the forward flight mode, the gun would be restricted in where it could be fired without shooting the blades off (and that's even by shortening them as I have). At the moment I have it so it can fire in around a 200 degree arc, that's forward and off to the sides. By positioning the GAU-8 in the front of one of the sponsons, it's clear of the blade tips by quite a margin compared to the V-22, which has the blade tips passing very close to the fuselage sides.  I found one of those Gepods in my stash, I'll post a pic later to show the size difference between it and a sponson.

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2018, 01:44:55 AM »
I had originally thought of using one of those, the problem with it is the chin turret I have under the nose. I don't want any interference between the two guns so the GAU-8 has to be positioned higher than the bottom of the fuselage. I want the chin turret to be operational when the GAU-8 is in use.

The drawing you've attached though, gives a good idea how long the barrels and breach actually is, about 3 meters or 9'-10"

I would use the GEPOD but fair it into the front of the sponson.  This would put the muzzle pretty much in the same position as the rockets that were trailed a little while back:



It would also be conceptually similar (though neater) to this:

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2018, 07:36:29 AM »
OK, the idea is not to go the 'arming the V-22' route, which is why I'm shortening the prop-rotors but adding more of them. The idea is to make the equivalent of a Cobra compared to a Huey. For what it's worth, I don't like the AC-130 type of gunship, the Cobra seemed to me to be what a gunship should be so that's what I'm attempting here.

The Gepod is quite a large bit of kit, but here's a comparison of a 1/72 Gepod alongside my sponson. You can see the A-10 GAU-8 barrels and fairing that I removed from the A-10 kit, glued to the front of the sponson (top pic). I've positioned the barrel ends about where it shows in the drawing shown in Greg's posting. The next pic shows the sponsons to the AV-22, which is a big aircraft. As big as an A-10 really ---

The prop-rotor blades are shortened enough that they clear the sponson, although until I get the weapons bay doors done, I think only the inner ones will be able to fire the RP's in a head-on attack.

If you go back to Post #11, you can see how the sponson will be orientated. The bottom half of it has the weapons bay and wheel bay, the top half was to be fuel tanks but I've since changed that. The photo I posted of the barrels/breach and the ammo drum shows some interesting details, it looks like the gun is just bolted down by the brackets it shows. So as the sponson has a mid-point shelf (so to speak) the gun would be bolted down to that.

Sorry, I don't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers, and I know everyone is trying to offer helpful advice, but the plan is to make a modern day Cobra.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 08:41:22 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline elmayerle

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2018, 10:29:58 AM »
I had originally thought of using one of those, the problem with it is the chin turret I have under the nose. I don't want any interference between the two guns so the GAU-8 has to be positioned higher than the bottom of the fuselage. I want the chin turret to be operational when the GAU-8 is in use.

The drawing you've attached though, gives a good idea how long the barrels and breach actually is, about 3 meters or 9'-10"

I would use the GEPOD but fair it into the front of the sponson.  This would put the muzzle pretty much in the same position as the rockets that were trailed a little while back:


Note that a production version of this would have pylons for gunpods (small), rocket pods, or missiles on both sides though there are dimensional limits; for ex. you could only have a double rack of Hellfires, adding a second pair below them isn't possible without hitting the ground when on the gear.

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2018, 01:02:31 AM »
I forgot you had the A-10 fuselage on this.  Looks damn fine.
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2018, 09:06:03 AM »
Cheers Greg ----

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2018, 09:13:06 AM »
I thought I had posted these pics but apparently not --

Top one shows where I cut the whole top off the V-22 fuselage. I then reduced the width so it would fit onto the A-10 fuselage. Also shows where I cut out the main wheel bays.

Second one shows how I had to repair the A-10 fuselage after it broke totally in half.

Next two show where I reduced the width of the wing center where it goes over the fuselage. Once I had glued it to the wing box which is part of the fuselage top I then filed it to match the curved top of the A-10 fuselage.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2018, 09:15:56 AM »
It appears I either forgot to add photos to reply #25, or the pics went missing. It would explain why I thought I had posted pics of the repair work. I've fixed the reply with the appropriate photos
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 09:06:20 PM by kitnut617 »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2018, 09:21:15 AM »
A couple of other pics I thought I had posted -----   ???

Top one shows I've finalized the nose gear arrangement and how the orientation on the sponsons but without the wing in place.

Bottom one has the wing in place.

The main gear is straight off the V-22, the nose gear is a combination of the A-10 strut and the V-22 oleo and wheels.

What I wanted to have here is space beneath the fuselage for a fuel tank, an F-15 size one. Or it could be for a MER and some smart weapons etc ---
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 09:26:35 AM by kitnut617 »

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2018, 11:11:30 PM »
This is looking good! 8)
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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2018, 09:24:43 AM »
Cheers Guy ---

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2018, 10:56:03 PM »
Nice work on that fuselage!  :smiley: Looks the business.
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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2018, 04:03:47 AM »
Tempted to copy this idea...maybe using something like a He-219 fuselage.
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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2018, 07:33:15 AM »
That would work too Greg   :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2018, 09:29:47 AM »
Here's some pics showing the AV-22 next to a V-22. The bottom pic shows the difference between the two prop-rotors, the one with the BERP blade tips will eventually have six blades. You can also see why I shortened them compared to the original blades on the starboard side.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 09:31:20 AM by kitnut617 »

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2018, 10:41:46 AM »
Very nice Robert. Twin tails are the best!  ;)
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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2018, 03:03:37 AM »
Big brother to BAT:

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2018, 03:07:14 AM »
How long ago was that produced Greg ?

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2018, 03:15:49 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2018, 05:49:53 PM »
Was it supposed to have longer prop-rotors?

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2018, 01:08:52 AM »
Was it supposed to have longer prop-rotors?


Yes

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2018, 08:30:04 AM »
I like that   :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

now we can see the origins of the V-280 Valor

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2018, 11:18:31 AM »
I don't know that I could post it, but I have seen a study for a two-seat in tandem attack fuselage mated to AB609 (now just A609) wings and nacelles.  Weapons bay was on the center line with outward hinged doors at the top of the doors, allowing the full opening without interfering with the prop-rotors.

Now, my SV-22B will have external torpedo racks behind the prop-rotors, but that won't matter as they are free-falling stores.

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2018, 12:35:27 PM »
Well I have a 1/48 XV-15 kit somewhere that might get turned into a attack bird with side-by-side seating all Kamov   Ka-52 "Alligator"
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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2018, 07:55:38 PM »
I don't know that I could post it, but I have seen a study for a two-seat in tandem attack fuselage mated to AB609 (now just A609) wings and nacelles.  Weapons bay was on the center line with outward hinged doors at the top of the doors, allowing the full opening without interfering with the prop-rotors.

Now, my SV-22B will have external torpedo racks behind the prop-rotors, but that won't matter as they are free-falling stores.


Very interesting Evan, so my project has a little bit of credibility then   ;)

Mind you, mine should be able to carry quite an armament load. Each sponson will have a similar cross section shape as this pod does, which should allow for quite a package to be stowed away in it.  The bay doors work in the same way too.

« Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 08:02:20 PM by kitnut617 »

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #58 on: June 27, 2018, 08:03:25 PM »
Well I have a 1/48 XV-15 kit somewhere that might get turned into a attack bird with side-by-side seating all Kamov   Ka-52 "Alligator"

I think I've seen a 1/72 kit of it too ---

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #59 on: June 27, 2018, 08:20:02 PM »
Well I have a 1/48 XV-15 kit somewhere that might get turned into a attack bird with side-by-side seating all Kamov   Ka-52 "Alligator"


I think I've seen a 1/72 kit of it too ---


Anigrand had one.  Now retired.



http://www.anigrand.com/AA2030_XV-15.htm
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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2018, 10:20:42 PM »
And Akotomba does/did one too ---

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #61 on: June 28, 2018, 03:05:17 AM »
There is also a 1/84 XV-15 kit that Bell once offered in its store.  I picked one up from a retiree in Flight Test and they occasionally show up on eBay.

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2018, 03:00:51 AM »
After a lot of thought, I've come up with something that would work for making the flaps deploy. Now I need to do a practice run on it and see if it does.

And I also did a practice run on how my weapons bay doors will be made. This was heat formed to the curve I need and then holes drilled into the edge of the inner side of the door. I took the diameter of the tubes from one of the RP pods and I can get ten holes in the edge. (top pic)

My prop rotor is also progressing, these are now glued to the spinner. I had to revise how I was going to attach the blades, the system where I had small stubs installed, wasn't very accurate so I took the stubs out and filled the holes in. I've got the other three to glue on yet, but they're in the process of being made. Then it will be onto the other prop.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 05:45:56 PM by kitnut617 »

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #63 on: July 16, 2018, 03:06:03 AM »
I've also installed a refueling probe in the wing near the wing root. I put it there because the nose of the aircraft is getting a bit crowded. I decided to reduce the prop-rotor diameter a bit more for clearance, so now the diameter is 30'-0" instead of the V-22's diameter of 38'-0".

Top two pics show how much clearance there is, bottom two pics show that the probe in it's extended position and retracted

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #64 on: July 16, 2018, 03:07:11 AM »
This is a top view of the arrangement

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #65 on: July 16, 2018, 03:11:31 AM »
The BERP blade tips take a bit of time to shape correctly, I used 2mm styrene blanks and then sanded the chord to suit the blade chord. I also had to re-twist the blades after they were shortened. The BERP ends actually replace quite a bit of the blade area I removed from the originals but I'm still going with six blade prop-rotors.

I also had to revise the nacelle hinge, with the extra blades and larger nacelle, there wasn't enough friction to keep the nacelles just dropping into the horizontal. And I want to pose it with the nacelles in various positions, which is why I'm going to make the flaps deployable.

The other thing I had to revise was how I had the sponson wing stubs, I had to reposition them to where they attach to the sponson. This was because of interference with the weapons bay doors and because I had made the first ones too short in an attempt to get the outer doors to be able to have a line of fire when the prop-rotor was in the forward flight position. But then I didn't have enough room for the inner doors to open ---  :-X  But even now the outer door line-of-fire will only work if the nacelles are rotated a couple of degrees, just going to have to live with that ---
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 03:22:46 AM by kitnut617 »

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #66 on: July 16, 2018, 03:54:36 AM »
I think I'd have made the refueling probe fixed off the top of the wing, somewhat like the first generation Harrier had it off the inlet.  That would take care of clearance problems as well as make the mate-up with the drogue easier to watch.

Overall, it's looking good.

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #67 on: July 16, 2018, 04:08:20 AM »
Thanks Evan --- I didn't take a photo of it in the top view when the probe is extended (next time), the tip of it is about where the pilot's instrument panel is.  I did measure a probe on a Tornado when it's deployed and I positioned this one at about the same distance from the fuselage.

The project is not progressing as quick as I would like it to though, work has been interrupting things a bit. The summer construction season gets busy at the airport up here in Alberta.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 04:11:35 AM by kitnut617 »

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #68 on: July 16, 2018, 10:27:17 AM »
Looks like a lot of finicky, finely detailed work completed in a very short time to me.

So, I'd say you're doing well but, yes, fine detail work does slow one down, doesn't it. :smiley: :smiley:
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2018, 07:30:33 PM »
Cheers Guy ---

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #70 on: July 18, 2018, 06:14:07 AM »
After some more chatting with Evan about where the terrain following radar should go and me thinking about what he said --- I've done a small design change. I didn't want to attach the radome that comes in the V-22 kit to the AV-22 nose because it seems to me an after-thought and as Evan said, it would look a bit ugly. So the design now has the radar built into the airframe. Only it's a bigger radar, bigger and better  >:D

I found I had a nose off another kit which has got change with another nose, when I made a trial fit with it to the nose of the AV-22, I couldn't take my eyes off it. I kept going back to it and looking at it and then just loved it. It gave the front end something that in my mind had been missing.  It's now glued on after some refinements.

Here's what I did, see if you think the same as I do about it. This is the trial fit-up, I'll take more pics once the glue has dried and I've done a bit of PSR on it.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 06:17:01 AM by kitnut617 »

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2018, 08:25:53 AM »
Looks like a natural fit

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #72 on: July 18, 2018, 09:57:30 AM »
@ Robert - based on what I can see of your new radome/nose it looks like it started life on a late model Mosquito NF and you have turned it upside down.  Am I close or was that a RWAG?  :)
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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #73 on: July 18, 2018, 08:31:45 PM »
Thanks guys --

Jeff, I was going to use it on a Mosquito, but it didn't come from one. It actually comes off a CF-100  --- a Mk.V to be exact  ;)  That kit is getting converted into a recce bird.

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #74 on: July 18, 2018, 09:07:02 PM »
Thanks guys --

Jeff, I was going to use it on a Mosquito, but it didn't come from one. It actually comes off a CF-100  --- a Mk.V to be exact  ;)  That kit is getting converted into a recce bird.

Oh the horror Robert! What is the source of your recce snoz?
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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #75 on: July 18, 2018, 10:59:40 PM »
Thanks guys --

Jeff, I was going to use it on a Mosquito, but it didn't come from one. It actually comes off a CF-100  --- a Mk.V to be exact  ;)  That kit is getting converted into a recce bird.

Oh the horror Robert! What is the source of your recce snoz?

 >:D >:D >:D

RF-101C Carl, but it's also getting a large pannier too -- I'll get some photos taken of where it's at and start another thread   ;)  Hint; it'll make Kit Spackman proud --

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #76 on: July 19, 2018, 03:39:31 AM »
Here's the new nose tidied up and a round of PSR

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #77 on: July 19, 2018, 03:43:38 AM »
Another thing I've done is to relocate the APU from the wing center section to the rear of the port sponson. I've done it this way because I've got the GAU-8 in the starboard sponson and needed something to offset the weight on that side. Same reason I put my refueling probe on the port side.

The exhaust I've used was made from a bit of curved sprue which I hollowed out.

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #78 on: July 19, 2018, 04:57:58 AM »
Nice work on the nose Robert.  The reason I was think it was from the NF Mosquito was because of the recess around the area that was in front of the windscreen.  Not being too familiar with the CF-100 variants aside from two HobbyCraft kits in 1:48th scale that i have in the stash, that was a nice reveal on your part.  :)
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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #79 on: July 19, 2018, 05:54:03 AM »
Thanks Jeff, the reason for the recess was I figured out to make the radome look right, it needed to be set further back from the bottom edge of the windshield. So I cut the notch into it with the intension of tidying it up but I wanted to see it sort of in the right place first. It didn't take long for me to realize that this was something nagging me in the back of my mind, and I just loved it from the get-go.

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #80 on: July 29, 2018, 09:45:14 PM »
Hit a milestone over the last week, got the first prop-rotor assembled.  I'll have to give it a coat of Mr.Surfacer then I'll paint it up.

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #81 on: July 29, 2018, 09:52:09 PM »
The instrument panel for the pilot (back-seater) was made by just cutting the V-22 panel in half and then reducing the width of the shroud to suit. For the panel for the gunner, I just used two of the remaining screens from the left-over part but I had to fabricate my own shroud for it.

I then made up a flare dispenser panel.

I fitted the FLIR turret on the bottom side of the gun turret too.

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #82 on: July 29, 2018, 11:31:58 PM »
I've also did a trial run for the hinges I need for part of the flaps. I'm using my other V-22 to work out how to do it but I just need to refine it a bit.

In the top pic you can see I've cut the flap out of the top half of the wing. You'll notice there's a sort of a strip on the leading edge of it. This is actually a separate part to the flap system and I imagine it's something to do with controlling the Coanda effect. It's not specific to the V-22 though, while at the Cold Lake Airshow last weekend, I noticed that the F-18's have something similar --- I had a good look at it    >:D

I'm not going to use the 'strip' which is on the kit part, instead I'm going to use a length of styrene angle. It's all part of my idea on how to get the strip to turn down when I move the flap down. Second pic shows the leg of the angle is about the same width as the strip (but I might change the angle to something with a longer leg length and file it down)

Third and Forth pics just show how I'm making the hinge up. I think I can get away with just two hinges per flap, but it may have to have three.

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #83 on: July 30, 2018, 01:21:56 AM »
Woh, dude! :icon_surprised:

Intricate or what! :smiley:
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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #84 on: July 30, 2018, 04:13:03 AM »
Wow!  Some real details there that a lot of us would just pass by.  I do like the rotor blades that you have created for this project. 
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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #85 on: July 30, 2018, 05:04:14 AM »
Thanks Guy, Jeff.

What the plan is eventually, is to make the flaps work when you rotate the nacelles. It's too late in the build for this project but the next V-22 I do will have it done this way. Plus there's always the Quad Tilt Rotor too ----
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 05:07:22 AM by kitnut617 »

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #86 on: July 30, 2018, 12:52:32 PM »
Looking good!!  How about a USA-Ukraine Quad Tilt-Rotor using the fuselage of an AN-12?  If you do go for a quad tilt-rotor, remember the aft engines are farther out from the fuselage than the front ones as you don't want the front exhausts to get ingested by the aft engines.

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #87 on: July 30, 2018, 05:43:12 PM »
Thanks Evan --

The QTR I've already started, I've used a Transall fuselage as a base. I need a bare minimum of 6 1/2" between the prop-rotors centers (they're 38 feet in diameter) and even the Transall fuselage is pushing it for clearance. But the USA-Ukraine idea is worth thinking about but not with the airframe side of things ---- my idea for the QTR is it's powered by a pair of very powerful turbo-shafts --- like maybe 15,000 hp ones ---  ;) 

I'll explain in another thread (and I think I have one going somewhere)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 07:25:33 AM by kitnut617 »

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #88 on: July 31, 2018, 04:13:17 AM »
Your incredibly well-engineered builds are a joy to watch!

The tolerances you achieve are mind-boggling.

I really like the rotor! Looks every bit the business.

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #89 on: July 31, 2018, 01:29:37 PM »
I was impressed with the first couple of posts, then I kept scrolling. What a beast! I love every part of it, what you're doing is inspired. Bravo!

Well I have a 1/48 XV-15 kit somewhere
Fantastic. I was browsing eBay a few months back and found a few promotional images of a desert camo'd XV-15 that got my imagination going.
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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #90 on: July 31, 2018, 05:34:32 PM »
Thanks Brian, Zak (nice to see you back)

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #91 on: August 01, 2018, 10:42:47 AM »
Well I have a 1/48 XV-15 kit somewhere
Fantastic. I was browsing eBay a few months back and found a few promotional images of a desert camo'd XV-15 that got my imagination going.
It's an odd scale, but you can occasionally find a 1/84 XV-15 on Ebay; it was a promo-kit sold by Bell "back in the day".  I'd love to find the Anigrand 1/72 one, but I suspect that, since it's OOP, that it would cost more than I care to pay.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #92 on: August 01, 2018, 05:28:36 PM »
Well I have a 1/48 XV-15 kit somewhere
Fantastic. I was browsing eBay a few months back and found a few promotional images of a desert camo'd XV-15 that got my imagination going.
It's an odd scale, but you can occasionally find a 1/84 XV-15 on Ebay; it was a promo-kit sold by Bell "back in the day".  I'd love to find the Anigrand 1/72 one, but I suspect that, since it's OOP, that it would cost more than I care to pay.

!/84 is a model railway scale --- I can find loads of model vehicles and heavy equipment die casts in that scale but not in 1/72.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #93 on: August 01, 2018, 11:01:56 PM »
There are a lot of 1:72nd scale printed models of vehicles (many types) available at Shapeways that are affordable and quite detailed. 
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #94 on: August 02, 2018, 07:38:09 AM »
There are a lot of 1:72nd scale printed models of vehicles (many types) available at Shapeways that are affordable and quite detailed.

Yep! I got one of my truck  ---- but bloody expensive ---

Offline KiwiZac

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #95 on: August 07, 2018, 04:42:52 PM »
It's an odd scale, but you can occasionally find a 1/84 XV-15 on Ebay; it was a promo-kit sold by Bell "back in the day".
I first saw that on Scalemates and I've wanted one ever since. Looks like it'd be a fun project.
"He's more real-world now than whif..."

Offline elmayerle

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Re: AV-22 and E-22 Tilt Rotors
« Reply #96 on: August 08, 2018, 01:53:48 AM »
It's an odd scale, but you can occasionally find a 1/84 XV-15 on Ebay; it was a promo-kit sold by Bell "back in the day".
I first saw that on Scalemates and I've wanted one ever since. Looks like it'd be a fun project.
They aren't cheap when they show up.  There's one on Ebay now for US$70.  I got lucky and acquired mine from a guy who retired from Bell Flight Test as part of a package deal.