Author Topic: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep  (Read 12034 times)

Offline Frank3k

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Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« on: April 25, 2014, 12:45:14 AM »
I didn't know if I should put this under Land or Air.
We used to have a great chain of drug stores called Sav-On. One of our local Sav-Ons had a surprisingly well stocked model section; it was clear that the buyer was either a modeler or had an interest in models, because they carried a lot more than just the generic car kits.  Sav-On is long gone now (taken over by CVS) and so is the model section.
I bought the Glencoe Airjeep at Sav-On in the late 90's and it has languished in its box since then.

During a Sprue Bros sale, I got the Trumpeter CH-47 Chinook Crew in Vietnam (http://store.spruebrothers.com/product_p/trp00417.htm) at a discount. The kit comes with a good rendition of the cockpit.

 I noticed that the cockpit floor fit well within the Airjeep fuselage, so a plan was hatched. What if the Airjeep had not only been accepted into service, but had been upgraded to modern standards, much as the HMMWV has been upgraded?

Here's the Glencoe box:


It's an ancient kit. They list it as 1/35, but it's probably some other random scale between 1/32 and 1/40.
This was a long build and unfortunately I didn't take many pictures during the build. Many of the parts were scratch built and many came from stuff Jeffry Fontaine has sent me.

I chopped out the cockpit section and added an equally chopped up CH-47 cockpit floor, boxed in with some textured styrene. I decided that a modernized Airjeep would use small turbine engines (as a later variant did) so I added two intakes made from fake fingernails and sealed up the gaps with plastic card and CA+talc putty. The engines exhaust into the rear prop's plenum. Here's the basic layout:



The lawn chair in the middle is from the Quad .50 Jeff sent me a couple of years ago, and it was left over from my HMMWV with Quad .50 build (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=240.0).  The plates on the side are styrene sheet and the fuel filters are from a Kotobukiya parts set. I also replaced the half rod that represented the prop drive shafts with a full styrene rod.


The Trumpeter figures in the CH-47 kit are awful (many of their figure kits are crap). The legs seem to be in 1/32, the torsos in 1/35 and the heads are misshapen lumps. One of the pilots looked like Voldemort! I did some extensive plastic surgery to shorten the legs and reposition the arms. Jeff sent me a huge collection of camo decals for 1/35 figures, so I decided to try them out on the pilots. I was well aware of the difficulties with camo decals, so I wasn't surprised at the challenges. I cut the decals into small strips and segments and soaked them in water. They were very stiff on the figures, but I softened them with Solvaset. It took enough Solvaset to dissolve almost any other decal before these guys softened, but the results are OK. I sealed the decals with Vallejo satin.

Here's Goober and Gomer, as Jeff called them:





The visors are goggles from Trumpeter's horrible PMC set. The boots aren't painted because they're not visible under the instrument panel.

Side view of the AV-8R:


The windscreen is from my tracked Humvee, which met a sad end when it fell from my work table. The minigun is from my Urban Leo, repainted. The front tires are from the Quad .50 kit, which fit nicely into the Airjeep's original landing gear. I also made extensive use of the leftover bits from the AFV Club M151 Protector kit (mostly Stryker parts).



I didn't like the puny props in the original kit. I found a good picture online of a sprue with the scimitar blades from a 1/48 E-2C Hawkeye. I scanned them in and scaled them to fit the Airjeep. I mirrored the blades, printed them out (on paper) and glued them around a styrene rod, making sure I gave them an airfoil shape. I then soaked the paper in CA.
The AFV Club leftover bits has several short cylinder with notches cut into one edge. I cut and combined the cylinders until I had two with 8 spaced notches around the rim. I used another cylindrical piece in the center, added the blades (making sure I made a counter rotating pair of props) and capped them off with another curved bit from a Kotobukiya parts set, which fit perfectly. I then coated everything with AK Interactive flat black acrylic primer.



I was going to use the original CH-47's instrument panel, but I had an Eduard's color PE set for a 1/35 MH-60, so I used that instead, cutting it to shape and adding hoods for the IPs:



The video display is scratch built from styrene. The image is from an actual display from a Stryker. The crew harnesses are Tamiya tape, using PE buckles provided by Jeff. The cylinder behind the cockpit is another AFV Club leftover. Here it represents a ballistic parachute, in case of emergencies. The tarp is just rolled up and painted paper. there's a row of tiny snap-ons visible on top of the windshield - they're from a Meng nuts and bolts set (I used several of the bolts on the side panels as well).



Crew weapons are on the sidewalls. One is from the AFV Club, the other is from the Trumpeter PMC set.
I removed the jump seat in the middle; a person sitting there would have had their head above the windshield and they would have been pretty cramped as well as within the crew's work space.



The mini-gun needs to be aimed, and since this is a reconnaissance vehicle, it needs some optics. So I scratchbuilt a turret. Surprisingly, none of the parts were from AFV:



The anti-reflection coating is from Tamiya. If you stick the film over a black painted surface, you get a nice gold/brown reflection. Over a white surface, you get a blue reflection (you can just barely see the imager to the lower left of the minigun).

I now have to paint the base. This is a surprisingly large vehicle, easily dwarfing a HMMWV and about the same size as the GAZ-66.

Thanks to Jeff for supplying many of the parts!



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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2014, 01:01:42 AM »
Well this is just about six flavors of awesome!  Very cool idea, combined with excellent execution. 

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2014, 01:18:27 AM »
Wow, now that is out of left field, looks great!

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2014, 01:55:30 AM »
Wow, I am always glad to help out a worthy cause even if it was as indirect as my supplying the decals for the figures.  The whole Glenco AirGeep kit is quite simple so anything done to it is an improvement.  I too was never satisfied with the rather small propeller/fan blades and your solution to that problem is quite inspiring.  So the entire propeller sans shaft and hub is just heavy paper?  That is amazing. 
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Offline jcf

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2014, 02:20:13 AM »
Cool.

FWIW shortly after delivery the original Airgeep had the twin 180 hp Lycoming O-360s replaced
with a single 425 shp Artouste IIB turbine, which was in turn replaced by a 500 shp AiResearch
331-6. The three-blade rotors were 89" in diameter, about 2.54" in 1/35.
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Offline Diamondback

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2014, 03:09:24 AM »
Creative build and an intriguing concept. One wonders what might have changed had this technology been developed further and built on...

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2014, 05:07:17 AM »
Great build! :)
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2014, 05:11:38 AM »
Thanks for the comments, guys!

Jon, I figure two small turbines with cross linking so that one engine could turn both props in an emergency.
The original Airjeep worked well, but the Army decided to go all helicopter. The Airjeep could also be operated on the ground, but I imagine vehicles behind it would not have been pleased.
I'll check my prop size, since I made them the same diameter as the kit props. That should give us a good idea of the scale.

Jeff, the props are regular printer paper. The added CA soak turned them into lightweight but very strong "plastic". I had expected them to be the hardest part of the project, but they were probably the most trouble free. Each prop/fan took about an hour to build (from print to final construction.) The hardest part was maintaining a consistent pitch angle, but I used a simple plastic jig for that.

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2014, 07:08:11 AM »
Thanks for the comments, guys!

Jon, I figure two small turbines with cross linking so that one engine could turn both props in an emergency.
The original Airjeep worked well, but the Army decided to go all helicopter. The Airjeep could also be operated on the ground, but I imagine vehicles behind it would not have been pleased.
I'll check my prop size, since I made them the same diameter as the kit props. That should give us a good idea of the scale.

Jeff, the props are regular printer paper. The added CA soak turned them into lightweight but very strong "plastic". I had expected them to be the hardest part of the project, but they were probably the most trouble free. Each prop/fan took about an hour to build (from print to final construction.) The hardest part was maintaining a consistent pitch angle, but I used a simple plastic jig for that.
That makes the "WOW" factor even greater that it was just standard weight paper used to make the propeller/rotor blades.  I think the only thing that could or should be considered is some kind of FOD cage over the top of each fan to keep out uninvited fowl.  Leaving the stabilizing fin off was also a great idea as it gives it a more polished/finished appearance.  Though in real life I suspect that thing was quite unstable in certain parts of the "flight" envelope and the fin kept it flying straight.  Mounting the sensors and your defensive weapon on the bottom was a pleasant surprise too as I never even considered that in my own ideas.  I was thinking more like a truck-like vehicle [without wheels] so everything would be mounted in a conventional fashion on top of the vehicle.  Some of the aftermarket resin propellers come with an assembly jig that puts the propeller blade at the correct angle to the hub and I bet that would be an asset for building propellers for something like this. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline FAAMAN

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2014, 09:13:51 AM »
Big awesome!!!  :) Huge wow!!!  :) amazing work on this, very well done!!!  :)
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2014, 10:02:00 AM »
That makes the "WOW" factor even greater that it was just standard weight paper used to make the propeller/rotor blades.  I think the only thing that could or should be considered is some kind of FOD cage over the top of each fan to keep out uninvited fowl.  Leaving the stabilizing fin off was also a great idea as it gives it a more polished/finished appearance.  Though in real life I suspect that thing was quite unstable in certain parts of the "flight" envelope and the fin kept it flying straight.  Mounting the sensors and your defensive weapon on the bottom was a pleasant surprise too as I never even considered that in my own ideas.  I was thinking more like a truck-like vehicle [without wheels] so everything would be mounted in a conventional fashion on top of the vehicle.  Some of the aftermarket resin propellers come with an assembly jig that puts the propeller blade at the correct angle to the hub and I bet that would be an asset for building propellers for something like this.

Jeff,
 I tried a FOD cover (made out of tule netting) for the top of the fans and even managed to build a circular holder to sandwich the tule.  But the assemblies were too tall, especially in the front and would have blocked what little forward vision the crew has. Making them smaller - and making them look good was beyond my skill set/patience. I also thought of a series of slats.

 I never liked the fin. I figured that a modern version would have a good flight computer. If you can build an agile quadcopter with a simple 8 bit microprocessor, keeping this vehicle stable should not have been difficult. That's also why I only included one control stick and no collective - to distance it from helicopters and to hint that the vehicle is mostly controlled by a computer.

The Tamiya AR coating material worked well (although it took a while to figure out how to use it since the instructions are all in Japanese). I figure that the sensor window has a solid cover to protect it during take offs and landings, although I only show it open. I thought of putting the minigun (and before that, a grenade launcher) in the port side, but it looked ungainly, plus it would limit the field of fire.

Jon, I measured the 8 blade props and they're about 68.7mm in dia. That makes the original kit 1/32.9 or 1/33.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 10:12:36 AM by Frank3k »

Offline jcf

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2014, 10:15:13 AM »
Interestingly period photos of the original Airgeep don't show a fin, also from most
written accounts the machine showed very good stability.

As to FOD covers, I wouldn't bother as they were just propellers in ducts rather than
potentially fragile turbine blades, most stuff would just go through. Another
consideration is that the Chrysler 'airjeep' had the control vanes on the top of
the duct rather than below like the Piasecki, and it flipped itself over.


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actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2014, 12:11:52 PM »
Here's a video of the real Airjeep - with a RR near the end of the video. Surprisingly little dust is being kicked up:

Piasecki VZ-8 Airgeep



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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2014, 12:34:55 PM »
Congratulations!

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2014, 07:14:50 AM »
 Man, you just keep being amazing. Propellers tend to frustrate me - the paper technique sounds like a winner.

Offline FAAMAN

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2014, 08:02:11 AM »
Although a 'good' idea, I don't think it was very practicable. Near the end of the vid has the vehicle going down a dirt road producing an alarming amount of dust in front and to the sides of the vehicle making vision very difficult, imagine that in Autum or even worse Winter in Europe or on a road in Afghanistan trying to stay 'covert' and hidden, I think it's obvious why it never went very far.
 
Another prob would've been air flow recirculation especially in 'confined' areas, enough recirculation of 'used' air would've resulted in ground resonance which if not immediately lifted out of would result in the vehicle rolling violently left and right out of control. Any rotary wing aircraft can suffer from this phenomenon when in close proximity to obstructions.
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Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2014, 11:15:23 AM »
This rocks! And your figures are superb  :) Great work  :)
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2014, 12:11:26 PM »
Although a 'good' idea, I don't think it was very practicable. Near the end of the vid has the vehicle going down a dirt road producing an alarming amount of dust in front and to the sides of the vehicle making vision very difficult, imagine that in Autum or even worse Winter in Europe or on a road in Afghanistan trying to stay 'covert' and hidden, I think it's obvious why it never went very far.

It did have a listed ceiling of 3000m; maybe it could fly high enough to not cause a noticeable dust cloud. It might be marginally more survivable to ground fire than a helicopter since the blades are partly enclosed.

Offline Frank3k

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2014, 12:12:26 PM »
This rocks! And your figures are superb  :) Great work  :)

Thanks! The decals really made the figures a lot easier. Not having to paint the faces helped, too.

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2014, 12:30:38 AM »
That's some superlative work, Frank! You totally nailed the camo & weathering and the details are a real treat!

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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2015, 05:33:45 AM »
Zombie post revival!

A few weeks ago, Jeffry Fontaine suggested that I turn the scimitar props into a 3D object that could be bought on Shapeways.
I remade the props (added some "creative changes" - smoother curve, wider and slightly longer blade, wider hub cap) and modified the shafts to fit the unmodified kit's prop shaft hole. I uploaded them to Shapeways and had them printed in White Strong and Flexible (WSF), WSF polished and Frosted Ultra Detail:


Top row: WSF, WSF polished. Bottom row: original prop, FUD.

The blades are handed.

I was painting another project when my wife brought me the Shapeways box. In my rush to get the props painted, I did zero cleanup, so the props (the FUD in particular) still have some of the support material and other crud on them under the black paint.

WSF:


WSF polished:


Even though the WSF looks worse than the WSF polished, there's really little difference between the too. The hub could use some extra primer and sanding to get rid of the printing artifacts.

I also primed the FUD versions. They're in the top row, with the original paper & CA prop below:


The FUD props are clearly superior to the WSF. They're also very fragile; one of the blades broke off either in transit or packaging and I had to pin it back on with a short length of brass rod.

Here's a close up. The prop had no pre-processing (cleaning or light sanding) - straight from the bag to the paint station:


All the props painted, with an original in the middle:


Both props on the original model:



Compare with the original props:





Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2015, 06:19:20 AM »
I just ordered five sets of Frank's propellers in FUD (CW rotation propellers and CCW rotation propellers) from Shapeways to cover a few of my AirGeep projects.  :) 

BZ Frank!

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2015, 06:36:23 AM »
What is diameter ?

Might fit 1/72 C-130.

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2015, 07:46:45 AM »
What is diameter ?

Might fit 1/72 C-130.
Bill,

The prop spinner is a bit too blunt to be of any use for any regular aircraft.  There are other makers on Shapeways that do offer propellers that will fit the C-130 and other aircraft in 1:72nd scale. 

Diameter of Frank's propellers is about 70mm.
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2015, 08:30:13 AM »
Bill, the diameter is exactly 70mm. The spinner comes off, but you would have to find a spinner with a matching diameter (13.0 mm).

If anyone wants to try these out, but don't want to pay the Frosted Ultra Detail plastic price, I can make the White Strong and Flexible parts available. At $5.50, they will probably make up the difference in price just by the amount of primer needed to smooth out the printing artifacts.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 09:29:27 AM by Frank3k »

Offline arkon

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2015, 11:11:15 AM »
Very nice looking air jeep. Your paper soaked in ca glue idea has givin me ideas about doing some props for another project, thanks.
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Offline FAAMAN

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Re: Piasecki AV-8R AirJeep
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2015, 01:29:18 PM »
Great looking fans, well done!! :)
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