Author Topic: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 16020 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #60 on: April 05, 2018, 01:05:02 PM »
Yeah, was aware of the USS Long Beach - see below:



I was actually thinking of something a bit more dedicated.  Basically a surface ship equivalent of a SSBN.  One might think arsenal ship but I was thinking of purely ballistic missiles such as Polaris/Trident as opposed to cruise missiles/SAMs etc.
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Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #61 on: April 06, 2018, 01:10:10 AM »
I was actually thinking of something a bit more dedicated.  Basically a surface ship equivalent of a SSBN.  One might think arsenal ship but I was thinking of purely ballistic missiles such as Polaris/Trident as opposed to cruise missiles/SAMs etc.
For a surface ship I don't think there is any way of not carrying a defensive armament. Even the nuke boats carry some self defense torpedoes and tubes. Ships are nowhere near as hidey" as subs and if nuke boats didn't exist, you can imagine a lot of effort would be expended to ensure that the whereabouts of every BBB (!) was known at all times.

In the event of a war, you'd have to imagine that the BBBs would be the first targets of everything in range, especially enemy subs. And since there wouldn't be any way to really hide the BBB, unlike the way an SSBN can hide, it would probably spend it's days pinging away like mad, escorted by a bunch of DDs and FFs also pinging away like made and probably accompanied  by a sea control or ASW carrier with more fixed and rotary wing ASW assets, all pinging away like mad in an attempt to find the one SSK that may be sitting near the bottom and waiting it's turn to sink a strategic asset.

The cost to operate the Naval side of the strategic triad would rapidly explode, making it very unlikely that ICBMs would actually be mounted on surface ships at all. It would be almost impossible to protect them long enough for them to be worth the expense.

Just some logical extensions. You mileage may vary...  ;)

Paul

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Re: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #62 on: April 06, 2018, 02:21:01 AM »
For a surface ship I don't think there is any way of not carrying a defensive armament.


When did I indicate "no defensive armament"?

I also wasn't saying that such a concept was logical.  SSBNs have been used for a reason.  this was more a whiff/alt reality exercise to help provide inspiration for ideas.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 02:23:38 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #63 on: April 06, 2018, 10:18:28 PM »
For a surface ship I don't think there is any way of not carrying a defensive armament.


When did I indicate "no defensive armament"?

I also wasn't saying that such a concept was logical.  SSBNs have been used for a reason.  this was more a whiff/alt reality exercise to help provide inspiration for ideas.

Sorry, I interpreted this:

"One might think arsenal ship but I was thinking of purely ballistic missiles such as Polaris/Trident as opposed to cruise missiles/SAMs etc."

to be a ship armed with only the ICBMs.

Apologies.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #64 on: April 08, 2018, 01:30:30 AM »
The USS Long Beach was designed to carry the Polaris missile amidships (in the vicinity of the port and starboard 5.0"/L38 turrets) but that was never implemented.  There was also an Italian Cruiser that was planned to carry the same Polaris armament.  So depending on where you put them, the Battleship could certainly accommodate a half dozen at the very least.
According to US BATTLESHIP CONVERSION PROJECTS 1942 - 1965, an Illustrated Technical Reference by Wayne Scarpaci (great book, highly recommended), there were studies in the late 1950's for converting both {I]Iowa[/I]-class battleshps and Alaska-class battlecruisers to carry and launch Polaris missiles.  All had enhanced AA defenses, those studied variants that did away with the forward main batteries, too, had considerable enhanced AA capability in their place.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 03:56:45 AM by elmayerle »

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Battleship Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #65 on: April 10, 2018, 12:57:34 AM »
there were studies in the late 1950's for converting both {I]Iowa[/I]-class battleshps and Alaska-class battlecruisers to carry and launch Polaris missiles.  All had enhanced AA defenses, those studied variants that did away with the forward main batteries, too, had considerable enhanced AA capability in their place.

Given the depth of the turret mechanisms, you could probably fit the Polaris and even Trident launch tubes into the ships without protruding above deck. For Tridents, you could get something like 18-19 launch tubes in each turret hole. That's a humongous 57 tubes per Iowa.

If you cleared the decks of gun houses and added a nice armoured cover to each launch tube. that would clear the way for a LOT of Talos, Terrier or Standard1 Missile launchers. In a refit mode you could easily fit 120+ Mk 41 VLS tubes, switch 6 of the 5" mounts over to the newer Mk 45 single automatic gun system, fit 4 each 20mm CIWS and SeaRam mounts, plus decoy systems and still have room to deploy and service 4-6 MH-60 helos for antisub work.

That's a pretty potent ship, to be sure.

But still a magnet for enemy forces. One that in a peer-to-peer war would receive a nuke right from the outset.

Paul