Author Topic: RN transfers a carrier to the RNZN during WWII  (Read 6377 times)

Offline Volkodav

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RN transfers a carrier to the RNZN during WWII
« on: September 20, 2013, 10:59:17 PM »
During WWII NZ operated three cruisers and provided many personnel to the RN including to the FAA.  In addition the RNZAF operated Corsairs, Dauntless and Avengers in the Pacific during the war.  This scenario is that the UKs man power shortages led to the plan for the RNZN to crew a Colossus Class CVL with the airgroup being drawn from experienced NZ nationals serving in the RN FAA and volunteers from the RNZAF flying lend lease Corsairs and Avengers.

The ship would have missed combat during the war but would/could/should have been retained post war and been deployed to Korea.  I imagine this change would have resulted in the RNZN getting out of the cruiser business sooner and maybe getting some destroyers as carrier escorts.  I could envision the original airgroup being replaced with either Sea Venoms or Seahawks and Gannets and then Skyhawks and Trackers, i.e. pretty much the same as Australia.  The big difference would be due to NZ small population and limited finances the carrier would be operated as a joint asset with most, if not all RNZAF combat types also being carrier aircraft operated in either a joint force or with the AF surrendering control to the navy.  ;D

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: RN transfers a carrier to the RNZN during WWII
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2013, 11:08:59 PM »
...[snip]... or with the AF surrendering control to the navy.  ;D

Now that would put the cat amongst the pigeons! ;D

(It's, also, something I wouldn't have minded seeing in RW in Aus circa pre-1984! ;) )

:)

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: RN transfers a carrier to the RNZN during WWII
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2013, 11:17:40 PM »
...[snip]... or with the AF surrendering control to the navy.  ;D

Now that would put the cat amongst the pigeons! ;D

(It's, also, something I wouldn't have minded seeing in RW in Aus circa pre-1984! ;) )

:)

Well the follow on is obvious, Australia gets a little upset about NZ having a carrier and decides to buy two or three larger ships while cutting back the RAAF to pay for it.  Eventually to afford these capabilities the RAN and RAAF are forced to adopt common types as NZ has already done. 

Maybe NZ could go for a unified Defence Force during the early 60s with the RNZAF becoming a FAA and the NZ army becoming marines, on the basis that they are so far away from everyone else that using ships is the only logical way to get their aircraft and soldiers anywhere that they will be needed........ ;)

Guy

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: RN transfers a carrier to the RNZN during WWII
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2013, 09:08:48 PM »
Which pretty much holds true for Aus, as well! ;)

:)

Guy
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: RN transfers a carrier to the RNZN during WWII
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2013, 04:01:44 AM »
What would you name this carrier?
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: RN transfers a carrier to the RNZN during WWII
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2013, 08:12:23 PM »
What would you name this carrier?

Wellington?

Offline Volkodav

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Re: RN transfers a carrier to the RNZN during WWII
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2013, 08:13:29 PM »
Which pretty much holds true for Aus, as well! ;)

:)

Guy

Never crossed my mind....... :o

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: RN transfers a carrier to the RNZN during WWII
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2013, 08:45:23 PM »
Never crossed my mind....... :o

Yeah, right! ;)

:)

Guy
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline KiwiZac

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Re: RN transfers a carrier to the RNZN during WWII
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2015, 09:30:08 AM »
Volkodav, I used your idea as a basis for a comprehensive story all about the service's history and aircraft...but, of course, I put it on my hard drive at home  >:D I'll find it and get it online.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 09:32:38 AM by KiwiZac »
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: RN transfers a carrier to the RNZN during WWII
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2015, 11:21:09 AM »
Volkodav, I used your idea as a basis for a comprehensive story all about the service's history and aircraft...but, of course, I put it on my hard drive at home  >:D I'll find it and get it online.

Looking forward to it!

Offline KiwiZac

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Re: RN transfers a carrier to the RNZN during WWII
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2015, 02:54:09 PM »
 ;)

Aircraft of the Royal New Zealand Navy Fleet Air Arm
At the end of the Pacific Campaign, which marked the end of the greater Second World War, His Majesty King George VI sought to reward his Commonwealth allies with materiel that may otherwise be scrapped or redundant in order to maintain strong post-war defensive capabilities.

The armed forces of New Zealand were one such recipient of this regal generosity. Late in the war, once the pressure was taken off its Atlantic front, the Royal Navy transferred the Colossus-class Light Fleet Carrier Pioneer to the Royal New Zealand Navy on loan, complete with 24 Vought Corsair Mk.IIs and 24 Grumman Avenger Mk.IIIs. At war’s end the vessel and aircraft (these being almost identical to their RNZAF counterparts) were sold to the RNZN and the ship renamed HMNZS Waitangi, for the site of the signing of the eponymous Treaty regarded as the nation’s founding document.

Waitangi and her aircraft, now with RNZAF-style roundels painted over the RN marks and with NZN-xxxx serial numbers, were constantly exercised against the Royal Australian Navy’s own new carrier fleet to hone their crews’ skill. The ship and her complement of aircraft represented a new service, the Royal New Zealand Navy Fleet Air Arm.

These skills were put to the ultimate test in 1950 when New Zealand deployed its fleet to aid United Nations operations in Korea. There, operating alongside British Sea Furies, Kittiwakes and Seafires and Australian Fireflies, the Kiwi naval fliers proved their worth. The surviving Avengers and Corsairs – a handful of each type having been lost in accidents since 1945 – were repainted into a paint scheme like that of the British and Australian FAA machines, with Extra Dark Sea Grey upper surfaces over Sky. The roundels, too, were soon redesigned to further differentiate the aircraft from their allies with the addition of a silver fern to the centre red circle of each roundel.

With the Armistice signed in 1953 the Waitangi and her crew returned to New Zealand for good, and after the historic welcoming parade down Auckland’s Queen Street the Government set about modernising the fleet of aircraft. As the Corsairs and Avengers were nearing 10 years of age, their combat time easily doubling this in fatigue, the decision was made to sell off the machines in favour of new types.

Rather than operating two types aboard Waitangi the FAA decided to instead diversify to three types: the Hawker Sea Hawk for fighter duties, the Westland Wyvern for ground attack, and the Fairey Gannet for anti-ship and anti-submarine warfare duties. Before the final contract was signed a further amendment was made to the plan, adding the Westland Whirlwind helicopter for search and rescue. The final complement ordered in 1954 comprised four Whirlwind HAR.5s, 12 Gannets (10 AS.1 and two T.2), 18 Wyvern S.4s and 18 Sea Hawk Mk.70s. To prepare for the new types Waitangi was docked at Devonport and extensively refurbished, her aircraft operating from nearby RNZN Hobsonville.

The first aircraft to be delivered were the Whirlwind helicopters, which were also based at “Hobby” until 1956 due to the Waitangi refit taking longer than anticipated. In mid-1955 six examples each of the Gannet, Sea Hawk and Wyvern were delivered via HMS Indefatigable, which was making a round-the-world goodwill tour prior to scrapping. This heralded the end of the Avengers and Corsairs which were then sold off for scrap. The remaining aircraft were delivered aboard HMS Vengeance in October of that year, the aircraft again flying from the carrier to Hobsonville.

On March 1 1956 the refurbished Waitangi was launched and, after trials lasting through Easter, was returned to active service with her full complement of aircraft. The new machines were to be tested at the end of the year as the ship was deployed to the Middle East as part of Operation Musketeer, the British-Israeli mission against Egypt at Sinai. Despite controversy about the perceived legitimacy of the operation, the FAA was commended by many for its efforts in support of British ground forces. Like the British FAA aircraft the New Zealand machines were painted with yellow and black “identification stripes”, which remained on most of the fleet until mid-1960.

During Operation Musketeer issues had become apparent with the Wyvern’s Python turboprop powerplant and complex contra-rotating propeller system, leading to the type’s withdrawal from FAA service. Westland proposed a new variant, the S.5, which would replace the troublesome Python and its prop with a Wright R-3350 radial engine and a four-bladed propeller. Although derided as a backward step by some the FAA saw merit in the proposal, citing experience with the radial-engined Avenger and Corsair among its engineers and the fact spare parts were still being produced for American aircraft, however doubts were expressed about how long it would take to tool up for production.

It was the FAA which came to the rescue. As it had already announced plans to retire its own Wyvern fleet the Admiralty ensured two dozen airframes were stored for conversion to S.5 status. As a result the FAA swiftly signed a contract with Westland for 24 converted S.5s.

As if underscoring the point, on 26 May 1959 Wyvern S.4 NZN-2105 was lost when its propeller gearbox failed, the pilot ejecting and being saved by a Whirlwind from Waitangi. Three days later another S.4, NZN-2101, suffered a similar in-flight failure and ditched near White Island, the pilot again being rescued. Subsequently the fleet was grounded for inspections, although the Gannets – another contraprop type – had experienced no such trouble.

Only one other Wyvern, NZN-2117, was found to have the faulty gearbox and the remainder of the fleet was returned to active duty. Meanwhile work had begun at Westland’s Yeovil factory on converting the S.5, the first four of which were delivered in early 1960. Due to labour issues at the factory the last S.5s weren’t delivered until late the next year, resulting in the S.4 fleet wind-down being slower than planned.

Another early 1960s acquisition was the purchase of eight Wessex HAS.51s to replace the aging Whirlwind, which had not performed as well as expected in New Zealand conditions. The two types were exchanged at a ceremony at Yeovil in early 1964, when HMNZS Waitangi was in British waters on exercise.

In the late 1960s the New Zealand Government recognised the FAA’s fixed wing component was becoming rapidly outdated, especially with regard to the Sea Hawk fighter. Following the lead of the Royal Australian Navy it was decided in 1967 to purchase 16 McDonnell Douglas A-4G Skyhawks to replace both the Sea Hawk and Wyvern, and 10 Grumman S-2G Trackers to replace the venerable Gannet. The two types represented the first American-built aircraft purchased by the FAA and deliveries were completed in 1968, however four examples of the Wyvern S.5 remained on strength until the following year.

New Zealand Army units were involved in the growing Vietnam conflict from 1965 however it was not until 1971 that the FAA (now with “Kiwi” roundels like those of the RNZAF on their machines) was requested to take part, being deployed to the region early that year. Limited ground attack missions were flown by Skyhawk crews and one aircraft was shot down by North Vietnamese forces, the pilot being rescued by an FAA Sea King (two further Skyhawks were lost in non-combat accidents in 1977 and 1981). The Waitangi remained in the region for eight months, returning to New Zealand – and anti-war protestors – in March 1972.

The latter part of the 1970s was a quiet period for the FAA, the only operation of note being the Wessex’ assisting in disaster recovery for Darwin following Cyclone Tracy in 1974. Four years later the Wessex fleet was replaced by another Westland type, the Sea King HAS.51, ten of which were purchased for use aboard Waitangi.

Although it was not involved, the 1982 conflict over the Falkland Islands became a pivotal event for the FAA. The performance of the British Aerospace Sea Harrier in combat stunned both line crews and “the brass” among the New Zealand naval force, and studies into the type were well underway when the conflict ended that June. British Aerospace offered the FRS.101, outwardly identical to the FRS.1 made famous in the Falklands but better suited to New Zealand conditions and with specific electronics gear.

A contract for 14 airframes was signed in 1983; however the specialised nature of the Sea Harrier meant another refit for Waitangi. While the distinctive “ski-jump” ramp was added to the forward deck the air fleet was once more relocated to RNZN Hobsonville for the duration of the upgrade project. The fleet of Sea Harriers was ferried to New Zealand by FAA pilots, trained in the UK, in August of 1984. The following month the Waitangi was re-commissioned and the Skyhawks were formally retired, 12 of the surviving airframes being transferred to the RNZAF (the 13th was retained for display).

In 1985 the FAA retired the Trackers from service, the anti-ship and ASW roles having been largely taken over by the RNZAF’s Lockheed P-3K Orions while upgrades to the Sea King fleet meant they could also be used. The remainder of the 1980s was a time of consolidation as the fleet was reduced to two types – the Sea Harrier and the Sea King.

A request from the United States for New Zealand’s military support in the Middle East was answered by the FAA in November 1990, when Waitangi was deployed to the Persian Gulf in support of Operation Desert Shield. Codenamed Operation Huhu – a native New Zealand grub – the mission saw the Sea Harriers used for combat air patrols and the Sea Kings used for observation and early warning for Coalition vessels. When Operation Desert Storm commenced on 17 January the following year, Sea Harriers from Waitangi escorted USAF Strike Eagles and provided top cover for allied helicopters. The incongruous appearance of distinctly maritime aircraft over the Kuwaiti and Iraqi sands became one of the many iconic images of the conflict, in which the FAA suffered no losses.

Later in the 1990s the FAA flew in support of RNZAF and RAAF operations in East Timor, again without loss. The Sea Kings also became popular icons thanks to several high-profile search-and-rescue operations as well as displays at the 1995 and 2000 America’s Cup regattas in Auckland.

In 2006 the FAA approached Lockheed-Martin about purchasing a squadron of F-35B strike fighters to replace the Sea Harriers, which had undergone a major avionics and systems upgrade beginning in 2001. The Government was cautioned about “ditching” the Sea Harriers too soon because of delays already being experienced by the JSF programme, however naval chiefs advised the Sea Harriers were not being retired until the full number of F-35s had been delivered. The Government duly placed an order for 16 F-35Bs in October 2007 and, in light of concerns over delays, advised Lockheed-Martin the fleet was expected to be delivered within 10 years. Although there was much negative attention cast on the lengthy timeline by the Opposition and defence experts, the Prime Minister was steadfast in his assurances that there would be no “defence gap” between the Sea Harrier retirement and the F-35B’s arrival.

The first F-35B for the FAA, NZN-1401, flew for the first time in Texas on 29 August 2013, followed a month later by NZN-1402. New Zealand pilots began training on the type early the following year and by February 2015, when this article was written, six aircraft were flying. The aircraft will embark aboard HMNZS Waitangi in February 2017, when the Sea Harriers will be decommissioned.

The other major purchase programme in the early 21st Century was the Sea King replacement. Three types were considered, reflecting allied forces’ choices: the NH Industries NFH90 (similar to the NH90 ordered by the RNZAF), the Agusta-Westland Merlin (operated by the British Fleet Air Arm) and the Sikorsky MH-60R Seahawk (being examined and ultimately bought by the Australian FAA). In 2012, after two years of study and evaluation, the MH-60R was selected and 10 of the type were ordered. The first two were delivered in early 2014 and the entire fleet was expected to be operational by 2016. Retirement of the Sea King was planned to follow about six months after the final Seahawk delivery.

TYPE                  SERIAL BLOCK^    INTR.   # DEL.   # LOST   RETIRED
BAe Sea Harrier FRS.101              NZN-1301           1984   14           1           in service/2017*
Fairey Gannet AS.1            NZN-3101           1955   10           1           1968
Fairey Gannet T.2            NZN-3111           1955   2           0           1967
Grumman Avenger Mk.III         NZN-2001           1945   24           4           1955
Grumman S-2G Tracker         NZN-3201      1968   10      0      1985
Hawker Sea Hawk Mk.70         NZN-1101      1955   18      3      1969
Lockheed-Martin F-35B Lightning II   NZN-1401      2017*   -      -      -
McDonnell Douglas A-4G Skyhawk   NZN-1201      1968   16      3      1984
Sikorsky MH-60R Seahawk      NZN-4401      2014   10~      0      in service
Vought Corsair Mk.II         NZN-1001      1945   24      5      1955
Westland Sea King HAS.51      NZN-4301      1978   10      1      2014
Westland Wessex HAS.51      NZN-4201      1964   8      2      1978
Westland Whirlwind HAR.5      NZN-4101      1955   4      1      1964
Westland Wyvern S.4         NZN-2101      1955   18      2      1961
Westland Wyvern S.5         NZN-2125      1960   24      0      1969

^ the format of the FAA serials is that the first digit represents aircraft role or type (1 for fighter, 2 for ground attack, 3 for anti-ship/ASW, 4 for helicopter), the second digit the order the type came in to service in the role, and the final two digits are for the individual aircraft. For example: NZN-3208 was a Grumman Tracker, this being an ASW type which was the second of its role, and this aircraft was the eighth delivered
* the Sea Harrier fleet will be retired when the F-35Bs are delivered, at the time of writing this is expected to be in February 2017
~ at the time of writing seven airframes had been delivered

The table is perfectly laid out in MS Word and the forum editing box  :-X
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 03:01:58 PM by KiwiZac »
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: RN transfers a carrier to the RNZN during WWII
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2015, 07:48:10 PM »
Cool, love it and only one but, she would be very, very, long in the tooth by 2000, let alone 2017 and I don't know if a 1942 Light Fleet could be effectively, let alone affordably upgraded to operate F-35B?  i.e. it may actually be cheaper and easier to replace her.

Offline Weaver

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Re: RN transfers a carrier to the RNZN during WWII
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2015, 03:46:45 AM »
As I just jokingly pointed out to Volkodav on another thread, the Spanish Principe de Asturias is currently laid up awaiting a foreign buyer: maybe NZ could take advantage of the situation to replace the Waitangi?
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Offline KiwiZac

  • The Modeller Formerly Known As K5054NZ
Re: RN transfers a carrier to the RNZN during WWII
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2015, 05:39:24 AM »
Sounds like a plan to me! And I'm glad you like my slightly expanded version of your original post! I'll get to work amending it.

How's this?
***

In May 2012 the FAA began to look at options to replace Waitangi rather than further upgrade the ship, which had been completed in 1945 and was showing its age through various maintenance issues and mechanical failures.

At the same time, rumours emerged that the Spanish Navy’s flagship carrier Príncipe de Asturias could be withdrawn from active service and placed in a state of "restrictive standby" due to financial pressures on the Spanish government. In November 2012, its decommissioning was confirmed and the New Zealand Government entered into negotiations to purchase the vessel.

The official handover ceremony was held on 6 February 2013 – the date, coincidentally, of New Zealand’s national day – at Naval Station Rota in Spain. The vessel was re-christened HMNZS James Cook and arrived in New Zealand in early April. By June the Sea Harrier fleet and personnel had transferred all operations to the new ship and Waitangi was berthed at Devonport to become a museum ship.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 07:27:19 AM by KiwiZac »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: RN transfers a carrier to the RNZN during WWII
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2015, 04:36:22 AM »
As I just jokingly pointed out to Volkodav on another thread, the Spanish Principe de Asturias is currently laid up awaiting a foreign buyer: maybe NZ could take advantage of the situation to replace the Waitangi?

That's an interesting idea - does anyone offer a kit of the Principe de Asturias?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 04:44:03 AM by GTX_Admin »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.