Author Topic: M26 and M46 Pershing, M47, M48, M60 Patton, and M103 Family of Vehicles  (Read 36639 times)

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M26 and M46 Pershing, M47, M48, M60 Patton, and M103 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2012, 11:37:08 AM »
There was an image in one reference book showing the 152mm gun/missile launcher mounted in what appeared to be a standard M48 turret which demonstrates that there was no special requirements to adapt the ordnance to the mount as it fit within the existing dimensions with minimal modifications.
That the one?

(See attachment)

Yep, looks to be the same vehicle but the image I recall was in black and white and I believe originated with the Chrysler Corporation. 
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Offline dy031101

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Re: M26 and M46 Pershing, M47, M48, M60 Patton, and M103 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2012, 08:25:52 AM »
Actually that picture got me wondering......

...... is XM150 merely a longer-barrelled version of M81 or a different weapon firing ammunitions of the same specifications?  Would there be any reason why that up-gunned M48 would have been better off sticking with the short-barrelled M81, or would it simply be that if it can handle the M81, it can handle the long-barrelled XM150?

EDIT: Upon some online browsing, I have a couple of questions- is the gun used by that up-gunned M48 the same one used by M60A2 or M551?  I've come across some references that say they are not exactly the same weapon.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 11:26:34 PM by dy031101 »
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Offline Jeremak

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Re: M26 and M46 Pershing, M47, M48, M60 Patton, and M103 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2012, 03:42:52 AM »
That short barrel launchers give me idea: what about Cold War era reincarnation of American WWII turret tank destroyers? Take M48, or M60 carriage, and put lightly armoured turret on it, with gun/launcher with able for firing on high elevation angle (firing from behind walls and hills), with targeting pod on crane.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M26 and M46 Pershing, M47, M48, M60 Patton, and M103 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2012, 05:35:39 AM »
...... is XM150 merely a longer-barrelled version of M81 or a different weapon firing ammunitions of the same specifications?  Would there be any reason why that up-gunned M48 would have been better off sticking with the short-barrelled M81, or would it simply be that if it can handle the M81, it can handle the long-barrelled XM150?

EDIT: Upon some online browsing, I have a couple of questions- is the gun used by that up-gunned M48 the same one used by M60A2 or M551?  I've come across some references that say they are not exactly the same weapon.

The M81 Gun/Missile Launcher on the M60A2, M551 Sheridan, and prototype M48 were all basically the same weapon system or a derivative of that system that fired a lower velocity (lower chamber pressures) ammunition.  The XM150 152mm Gun/Missile Launcher used with the MBT70/XM803 that was designed to fire a higher velocity ammunition such as the APFSDS ammunition designed for it.  The Sheridan and M60A2 were not able to fire a high velocity round such as this and relied on the HEAT and HE ammunition for achieving success or the Shillelagh for long range but still with a very low velocity since HEAT ammunition does not require high velocity to achieve penetration.  That is done with the high velocity jet created by the shaped charge and molten metal upon impact with the target. 

Link to some information on the XM150E5 152mm Gun/Missile Launcher used with the MBT-70/XM803 at Wikipedia.

Link to some information on the M81E1 152mm Gun/Missile Launcher used with the M551 Sheridan AAAV and the M60A2 at Gary's Combat Vehicle Reference Guide. 
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Offline finsrin

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Re: M26 and M46 Pershing, M47, M48, M60 Patton, and M103 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2012, 05:21:15 AM »
AMT has a 1/72 M48A5 kit.
Is there a M48A3 gun barrel or muzzle piece on market to convert it to 90mm appearance ?

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M26 and M46 Pershing, M47, M48, M60 Patton, and M103 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2013, 10:35:17 AM »
AMT has a 1/72 M48A5 kit.Is there a M48A3 gun barrel or muzzle piece on market to convert it to 90mm appearance ?

Look for something similar in size to the 90mm gun tube from another kit or try to make one on your own from plastic rod.  No idea if there is an after market replacement from metal available to make it just a matter of drop in to replace it.  Since you want to go retro you are stuck with few options and the muzzle brake on the M47 and M48 are quite unique. 
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Offline jschmus

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Re: M26 and M46 Pershing, M47, M48, M60 Patton, and M103 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2013, 08:52:36 PM »
AMT has a 1/72 M48A5 kit.
Is there a M48A3 gun barrel or muzzle piece on market to convert it to 90mm appearance ?

Not sure if this would help at all, but both Pegasus and Trumpeter have done 1/72 kits of the M46.  The 90mm guns aren't the same as those used on the M48, but the barrels would be the right size.
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Offline finsrin

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Re: M26 and M46 Pershing, M47, M48, M60 Patton, and M103 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2013, 08:44:15 AM »
Been looking at various M48 kits.  Never picked up on this before.  Some have three return wheels for tracks, others have five wheels.  One kit even shows five on box art while model in box has three.  Does not matter for my kinda kitbashing.  Just a curiosity question --- anyone know what story is with M48 track return wheels ?

Can call it:   Tank Trivia
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 09:26:41 AM by finsrin »

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Re: M26 and M46 Pershing, M47, M48, M60 Patton, and M103 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2013, 08:46:10 AM »
I have a whole book somewhere that covers the M48.  Will look up for you when it cools down here...  :icon_sueno:
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Offline Cliffy B

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Re: M26 and M46 Pershing, M47, M48, M60 Patton, and M103 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2013, 10:10:03 AM »
Which model of the M48 do you refer?  I have a book from 1982 that shows 7 Road Wheels and 5 smaller wheels at the top in addition to the drive "sprocket" at the rear top on a M48A5 (1980).  An M48A2 (1968) and an A3  has the same configuration but only 3 wheels at the top.  Another photo shows an A3 with the same config as the A5 listed above (1970).  A photo on an A1 (1964) shows same config with 5 wheels at the top.  Seems like it was a model/year thing that constantly changed.

Pardon my ignorance for the terminology I used.  I'm not very well versed in armor  :-[
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Offline finsrin

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Re: M26 and M46 Pershing, M47, M48, M60 Patton, and M103 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2013, 11:24:23 AM »
AMT 1/72 M48A5 has 5 wheels on box art and 3 on kit.
Tamiya M48A3 has 5 wheels.
Monogram M48A3 has 3 wheels

Offline raafif

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Re: M26 and M46 Pershing, M47, M48, M60 Patton, and M103 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2013, 11:43:16 AM »
I have a book from 1982 that shows 7 Road Wheels and 5 smaller wheels at the top in addition to the drive "sprocket" at the rear top on a M48A5 (1980).  An M48A2 (1968) and an A3  has the same configuration but only 3 wheels at the top.  Another photo shows an A3 with the same config as the A5 listed above (1970).  A photo on an A1 (1964) shows same config with 5 wheels at the top.  Seems like it was a model/year thing that constantly changed.

It seems to depend on production batch & reworking / upgrading of hulls during the type's lifetime.

Pardon my ignorance for the terminology I used.  I'm not very well versed in armor  :-[

They're called "roundy things"  ;D

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M26 and M46 Pershing, M47, M48, M60 Patton, and M103 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2013, 11:49:20 AM »
Bill,

The M48 was manufactured with three and five return rollers.  There was a time when you could readily identify the version of the M48 by the return rollers and the type of engine deck.  Rest assured you can have five return rollers or three and it is still an M48 :)

Some further recommended reading on the subject at these links:

Wikipedia - M48 Patton Tank

Chris Connors page on the M48 Patton Tank

Patton Mania - M48 Patton Tank

Gary's Combat Vehicle Reference Guide - M48 Patton Medium Tank

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Offline dy031101

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Re: M26 and M46 Pershing, M47, M48, M60 Patton, and M103 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2013, 12:09:47 PM »
There is the Super Pershing, and there is the M51 Super Sherman......

Somewhere in the what-if verse, there is bound to be a tank that has the best of both......

« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 12:14:55 PM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: M26 and M46 Pershing, M47, M48, M60 Patton, and M103 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2014, 12:07:53 PM »
Replace the long 90mm with a French 105 and you can even add some applique armour to the turret and hull front to get a pretty believable IDF Super-Duper Pershing.  :)

The M26 turret should take a Brit L7 if you want to go the Pershing-Kal sort of route. Add a later AVDS 1790 engine deck from an M60 and you've got a pretty good 6 day war/ '73 war tank.