Author Topic: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)  (Read 88452 times)

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #100 on: September 06, 2013, 01:06:11 AM »
Gizmodo - America's Kamikaze Drone Makes the Skies Way Less Friendly

Once you get over the bad acting in the very poor quality video that is embedded in the article it turns out that this is a very efficient little killing machine in addition to a short duration surveillance asset that can search out and subsequently take out a target.  Being small and somewhat portable and about the same size/weight as the M72 LAW shoulder fired anti-tank rocket launcher this tactical tool has a lot of potential.  I see one problem with it in that it needs to be set up with an antenna on a separate tripod mast which means it has vulnerabilities.  Maybe AeroVironment can develop a more compact antenna link that can be hand carried to make it even more portable. 
 
Kamikaze drones: Miniature munitions for dismounted troops - Army Time Aug. 14, 2013 - 06:00AM

AeroVironment UAS Switchblade UAV/LMAM/PGM

(Image source: AeroVironment, Inc.)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 01:13:24 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #101 on: September 15, 2013, 01:04:38 PM »
Fouga Magister.  Cockpit entirely removed and smoothed.   Roll it would play???  Elifino.  ;D
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #102 on: September 19, 2013, 02:13:14 AM »
While the concept is far from original, a 1:72 Airfix Gnat was just picked up to convert into a cruise missile.  Obviously the guidance system and charge would be located to where the crew area is.   I think it'll look good.    Hope to post it here circa February as a couple others were ordered to give to my son for a Daddy-Son Together-time Holiday gift.   
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #103 on: November 16, 2013, 04:40:39 AM »
Something I saw in London earlier this year - now every soldier can have their own UAV:



Details
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Offline raafif

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #104 on: November 16, 2013, 06:57:53 AM »
anti-drone device ...


Offline elmayerle

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #105 on: November 16, 2013, 07:01:49 AM »
anti-drone device ...



*chuckle*  It needs a name that'll boil down to "swatter" as an acronym or set of initials.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #106 on: December 22, 2013, 05:07:11 AM »
Bring on the Unmanned Freighters…good way for the public to get used to the idea of autonomous piloted airliners!

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #107 on: February 08, 2014, 03:36:54 AM »
Just what every car needs…its own UAV (click on image for story):



Now, where be mine (it could easily fit into the rear of the Audi …armed with missiles…for traffic >:D
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #108 on: April 13, 2014, 11:52:48 AM »
Responding here to this quote

Dare I say, all that is satisfied by something like this nowadays :



Not to take away from your model though which is great!


Thanks!  It came together real nice!

Problems with the drones (as I see them) are;

Limited field of view / situational awareness

Limited payload

Low speed

Inability to act as radio relay (surprisingly, the most critical problem!)

No armour

High cost

High complexity (control system)

Any loss of contact (for whatever reason) results in loss of the platform

...

Drone cannot act as a liason aircraft

Drone cannot be used in an air combat situation

...

I'll get my coat...


Responses:

Limited field of view / situational awareness - somewhat countered if one fits lipstick cameras all around thus providing a EO DAS style solution.  Besides, one could argue that a crew siting comfortable out of harm's way if provided. With plenty of sensor feedback could potentially have a higher situational awareness.

Limited payload - not a feature of drones per sae but rather of the individual designs.  A drone could easily be given the biggest payload ever seen.  Besides, I would suggest the Reaper (by way of example) is not lacking in that department).

Low speed - again not a feature of drones per sae but rather of the individual designs.  And by the way a drone has operated at in excess of Mach 3 as far back as the 1960s.

Inability to act as radio relay (surprisingly, the most critical problem!) -not sure what you mean by this since acting as relay repeaters is actually one of the roles regularly envisaged for such platforms.  The technology is quite easy.

No armour - again not a feature of drones per sae but rather of the individual designs. One could design a drone to be the heaviest armoured platform ever to fly...if it was cost effective.  I would also suggest that many manned platforms are also lightly or not armoured.

High cost. - compared to what? 

High complexity (control system) - as opposed to life support and other features required for manned platforms?

Any loss of contact (for whatever reason) results in loss of the platform - not necessarily.  Drones can be and are built with the ability to keep flying even with loss of comms.  It really depends upon the scenario, rules of engagement and operating environment as to what occurs following a permanent loss of comms.

...

Drone cannot act as a liason aircraft - true...but hardly a significant issue.  Though one could add on some inhabited pods...

Drone cannot be used in an air combat situation - errr...what do you think the AIM-9s carried on some MQ-9s are for?  Moreover, one could easily have drones that far exceed the air combat capabilities of any manned platform...they certainly found that they could as far back as the 1970s.

...
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Offline deathjester

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #109 on: April 13, 2014, 09:25:18 PM »
I just look at the reams of crash reports!

Yeah, I see what you're saying - they're just not there yet.  And when they are, I reckon it'll be a super expensive system, compared to a manned platform.

Also, I can see, and indeed have already heard, the main problem with giving drone vehicles more autonomy: the howling masses, terrified that the things will go all 'Terminator' on them!  What may yet be the end of drones is the reluctance of anyone to actually field autonomous combat vehicles, when they are faced by their political opponents raising awkward questions!

Offline Diamondback

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #110 on: April 14, 2014, 11:29:05 AM »
Personally, I've thought a mixed force would be the safest way to go--say one manned 'director' F-22 or F-35 with 1 to 3 UCAV 'wingmen'. Force multiplier basically.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #111 on: April 14, 2014, 04:05:24 PM »
I just look at the reams of crash reports!


What say, we go even further and look at Class A mishaps ($1M+ cost, fatal or permanent total disability, or destruction of aircraft) against cumulative flight hours:



Note that manned and unmanned aircraft are all trending downward similarly, showing the results of experience and continuous improvements. The Q-1 (Predator) lags behind other airframes, both manned and unmanned. This is not surprising given the Q-1 is the first mass used large unmanned airframe. Additionally, the Q-1 may be used in situations and environments that may be more dangerous than manned aircraft, leading to more mishaps. The more modern Q-4 and Q-9 are on par with manned airframes, showing that unmanned airframes can have accident rates similar to or better than manned airframes without the risk to crewmen.

All data derived from US Air Force Safety Center: http://www.afsec.af.mil/organizations/aviation/aircraftstatistics/index.asp

Yeah, I see what you're saying - they're just not there yet.  And when they are, I reckon it'll be a super expensive system, compared to a manned platform.


I believe that they are largely there for the role they are used in. Also if you want to do a cost comparison one needs to consider the complete life-cycle cost.  This will include the cost (for the manned system) of life support system (and associated support/logistics personnel, contractors, spares etc…), the cost of training the pilot (and maintaining their qualifications - not a small amount as anyone who has served in an operational squadron will attest to), the cost of maintenance due to those training operations (something a UAV doesn't need to worry about since the training is essentially simulator based for most of the time - the airframe itself and the computers don't need to fly), the cost of the airframe designed to greater factors of safety (a UAV can be considered semi-expendable) etc …If done properly I think you will find that UAVs are very much less expensive…and that doesn't even touch upon the benefit of not putting a crew in harm's way.

Also, I can see, and indeed have already heard, the main problem with giving drone vehicles more autonomy: the howling masses, terrified that the things will go all 'Terminator' on them!  What may yet be the end of drones is the reluctance of anyone to actually field autonomous combat vehicles, when they are faced by their political opponents raising awkward questions!


I will concede that the political aspect of the uninformed whining about the UAVs is an issue to contend with.  I doubt there will ever be a solution here since most of these people either are whack jobs who watched Terminator movies one too many times or are against any weapons platform regardless.  They are also regularly incorrect in accusing the UAVs of being a "human less killing machine" - they forget that all current UAVs still keep a human in the control chain.  No weapon is released without a human giving a say so.  Moreover, because of the locations of the controllers, and the ease of access, they are often subject to more restrictive ROEs than crewed platforms in the AOs.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #112 on: April 14, 2014, 07:45:20 PM »
Damn you, have you no shame, using charts as well as facts just isn't cricket!

Offline deathjester

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #113 on: April 14, 2014, 10:28:16 PM »
No fair!  Charts and ranting - THAT DOES IT!!!!!!!
...
...
(Grimly starts work on 1:1 scale Stashbuster(TM) missile...

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #114 on: April 15, 2014, 02:13:44 AM »

(Grimly starts work on 1:1 scale Stashbuster(TM) missile...

You had better make that a big missile…. :-X
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #115 on: April 15, 2014, 02:22:00 AM »
Now any one want to hazard a guess just how many rounds it takes to bring down a UAV?

<a href="" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win"></a>
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Offline deathjester

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #116 on: April 15, 2014, 06:33:22 AM »

(Grimly starts work on 1:1 scale Stashbuster(TM) missile...

You had better make that a big missile…. :-X
It needs to be - it's carrying the Queen of The Carpet Monsters!!  MWAHAHAHAHAHHAH!!!!!!!!

Offline Gingie

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #117 on: April 15, 2014, 08:46:31 AM »
Now any one want to hazard a guess just how many rounds it takes to bring down a UAV?


And they all walked away, each claiming 10 confirmed and 15 probable kills.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #118 on: April 15, 2014, 01:23:12 PM »
RC targets/UAVs are remarkably hard things to hit.  Way back in the early 1980s I did an MG instructor's course where they took us through all aspects of using the then standard GPMG for the Australian Army, the much maligned M60.  Part of it was AA use and they had some small RC targets for us to shoot at.  We fired various serials from various positions to try and hit these bloody fragile looking bits of balsa.  Could we hit them?  Nope.  Then two of the instructors got up and showed us how to do it.  Just like the pictures of WWII Germans, the assistant put the bipod on his shoulder, the gunner took careful aim and after three tries brought it down with a round clean through the glow-plug engine.   Of course, it took 300 rounds to get that!  Small, fleeting targets are damn hard to hit.   >:D

Offline Gingie

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #119 on: April 15, 2014, 10:22:03 PM »
  Small, fleeting targets are damn hard to hit.   >:D

Indeed! And even when they are hit by small arms, the damn things keep on flying!

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #120 on: April 16, 2014, 10:57:01 AM »
  Small, fleeting targets are damn hard to hit.   >:D

Indeed! And even when they are hit by small arms, the damn things keep on flying!

As I noted, took a round in the engine to bring it down.  It was a lucky shot but there were holes in the wing which did surprisingly little damage to such a fragile structure.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #121 on: April 20, 2014, 03:53:52 AM »
First the photo:



Then the video:

<a href="" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win"></a>


Now, where's the model kit…in 1/48??
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #122 on: May 04, 2014, 03:36:25 AM »


 ;)
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #123 on: August 23, 2014, 06:11:24 AM »
Interesting picture showing just how big the X-47B is:

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Uninhabited and Unafraid, (UCAV, UAV, and Drone Aircraft)
« Reply #124 on: August 23, 2014, 04:19:25 PM »
Does the point about aerial refuelling mean it has both a probe and a receptacle?

Just had a naughty thought.  Who's going to do one up in Blue Angels livery?  ;)