Author Topic: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks  (Read 37666 times)

Offline Feldmarschall Zod

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2012, 05:13:13 AM »

Thanks John. I have the DML version in the stash. Hopefully a metal barrel is available somewhere. :D


RB Model do one in 1/35:




You can usually find them for sale on eBay.

Thanks chief. :) That barrel would look good on a Leo I circa 1948. >:D
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2012, 10:09:51 AM »
Rickshaw: Thanks for the aide-mémoire -- 10.0cm PAW 1000 was the one I was thinking of.

You know, somewhere at some point in time, I swear I remember reading a proposal from Giat (or Nexter) that involved equipping the Leo 1 with various turrets from the AMX 30 family... but the reason for swapping the turret from the gun tank went over my head a bit ...

That's been proposed a couple of times. One non-Giat proposal was Santa Bárbara Sistemas' Proyecto LEOX. A hull was procured from Krauss-Maffei (and is still in Seville, apparently) but I'm not sure if the turret swap was ever completed. The point of the project was to eliminate drivetrain problems with the AMX-30E while avoiding British export bans on the Leopard 1A3's RO L7A3 main guns.

IIRC, Proyecto LEOX was meant as an fill-in after the collapse of the 1985 domestic Lince tank project (also by Krauss-Maffei and Santa Bárbara). There were a host of alternative proposals all involving new transmissions (or engines) for the AMX-30E. Eventually, Spain chose the AMX-30EM1 / AMX-30EM2 upgrades before moving on to Leopard 2E and Centauro replacements.
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2012, 11:19:07 AM »

.... One non-Giat proposal was Santa Bárbara Sistemas' Proyecto LEOX. A hull was procured from Krauss-Maffei (and is still in Seville, apparently) but I'm not sure if the turret swap was ever completed. The point of the project was to eliminate drivetrain problems with the AMX-30E while avoiding British export bans on the Leopard 1A3's RO L7A3 main guns.

IIRC, Proyecto LEOX was meant as an fill-in after the collapse of the 1985 domestic Lince tank project (also by Krauss-Maffei and Santa Bárbara). There were a host of alternative proposals all involving new transmissions (or engines) for the AMX-30E. Eventually, Spain chose the AMX-30EM1 / AMX-30EM2 upgrades before moving on to Leopard 2E and Centauro replacements.

AH HA! THAT was the reason. Thank you for jarring my memory about the embargo of the L7. I seem to recall (possibly from the same source) that, at the time, the AMX 30 was felt to have either a superior or at least more familiar fire control system than the Leo 1.

On a vaguely related note, while the power train problems of the AMX30 are pretty well known, I read an account from a Spanish tanker who said he felt that the gun of the older M47 was superior to the French 105! Take that for what it's worth because I have no way to verify it. Regardless, I would still like to build a LEOX in 1/35 because it sounds like a cool idea for a Whif model.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2012, 07:44:30 PM »
There were also the proposed "Lion" - a project from Oto-Melara (who licensed built the Leopard 1 for the Italian Army) - a tropicalised, specialist desert version of the Leopard.  It had a superficially different hull and turret - much squarer than the cast turret Leopard 1.  However, no one was willing to buy it and they produced instead the OF40, which was purchased by the UAE (36 MBTs + 2 ARVs).  It too was essentially an upgraded, tropicalised Leopard 1.  Again, with a much squarer hull and turret.




Offline apophenia

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2012, 08:23:45 AM »
... I read an account from a Spanish tanker who said he felt that the gun of the older M47 was superior to the French 105! ...

The preference probably sprang from the M47's main gun being stabilized (at least for elevation). AFAIK, the AMX-30E's CN-105-F1 wasn't. So, likely that tanker was willing to trade calibre for more accuracy on the move.
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Offline apophenia

  • Suffered two full days of rapid-fire hallucinations and yet had not a single usuable whif concept in the lot !?!
  • Patterns? What patterns?
Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2012, 08:26:45 AM »
... a tropicalised, specialist desert version of the Leopard...

Could have used some of those in Kandahar in 2006  ;)
Under investigation by the Committee of State Sanctioned Modelling, Alternative History and Tractor Carburettor Production for decadent counterrevolutionary behaviour.

Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2012, 10:33:25 PM »
I've always thought thought the OF 40 had a sexier looking turret than the Leo 1A3-A4 series. Looks like it would be a cool variant of the Leo 1 for one of my "Imagi-Nations" that primarily uses modern German equipment.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2012, 01:27:35 AM »
Leopard 2 Tank Hunter what-if built by Paul Hennessy and posted on the forum at Missing-Lynx

Click on image or html to view topic at Missing-Lynx forums.


(Image source: Paul Hennessy - photobucket.com)

Of course I sent an invitation to Paul right after I found his topic :)
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2012, 02:20:53 AM »
 :)
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2012, 02:22:57 AM »
I made an "urban" Leo a few years ago:



inspired by BuzzBomb's urban M1:

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,26318.0.html


Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2012, 02:35:55 AM »
I made an "urban" Leo a few years ago:



inspired by BuzzBomb's urban M1: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,26318.0.html


Your 'Urban Leo looks like WALL-E's bigger brother with that little elevated sensor mast sticking up at an angle like that. 

Click on thumbnail to view larger image. 


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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2012, 07:54:11 AM »
That "Jagd-Leo" is too cool! Paul mentioned that the casement tanks were a partial inspiration and that was the first thing I thought of when I saw it.

Frank, do you have more photos of your urban combat Leo? While there have been a few nice MBTs converted to this type of vehicle, yours is the best execution of the idea I've seen so far.

Offline Frank3k

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2012, 12:02:29 PM »
Frank, do you have more photos of your urban combat Leo? While there have been a few nice MBTs converted to this type of vehicle, yours is the best execution of the idea I've seen so far.


Thanks Jacques! The build thread is over on the What-if board: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,26900.0
I think Brian's (Buzzbomb's) is the best I've seen.

Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2012, 10:41:32 PM »
Thanks for the link, Frank! Now I must confess to being in the running for a "Derp Of The Month" award since I realized I've looked at your build thread over on WhIf a number of times. :-[

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2012, 10:05:14 PM »
An update on Paul Hennessy's Leopard 2 Tank Hunter project can be seen at this link: A paper-panzer update on the Missing-Lynx forums. 



"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg