Author Topic: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks  (Read 40632 times)

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« on: April 28, 2012, 12:11:33 AM »
Alexander Jost used the Perfect Scale (Kit number 35040) Leopard Upgrade kit to build his HobbyBoss 1/35th scale Leopard 2A4

Click on thumbnail or html to view the build article at Modellversium.de

Alex has built a very nice looking Leopard 2.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 04:10:31 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2012, 03:46:28 AM »
That's very well done!
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 04:10:42 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2012, 04:47:41 AM »
Some photos of the Leo2 prototype:





Note the extra 20mm cannon secondary target /anti-aircraft use.

Regards,

Greg
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2012, 04:52:25 AM »
Some real world Leo1 proposals:

MLRS:



SPH:




Matador twin 30mm SPAAG:




Leo1 with 120mm main gun (sometimes also referred to as Leo3):





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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2012, 10:56:18 AM »
How about a Leo1 based heavy IFV:

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2012, 10:58:53 AM »
Leo3 shown above:

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2012, 10:59:41 AM »
Leo1 based demolition tank:

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2012, 11:00:24 AM »
Leo one based APC:

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2012, 11:04:46 AM »
JagdLeo1:

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2012, 12:11:42 PM »
The APC variants seem to have no rear exists.   I think a better idea was shown the the Jordanian conversion of the Centurion to a HAPC, the Temash, where they reversed the vehicle, driving it effectively backwards so that the exit was now through what was previously the front glacis.  The Leopard 1 would also be rather a light-weight HAPC, it was never heavily armoured.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2012, 09:41:09 PM »
Diethelm Berlage built a Leopard 1A6 from the Revell/Italeri kit and a self-made conversion set. More pics HERE.

Cheers,
Moritz

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2012, 02:36:32 AM »
Given the Leo1 was a contemporary of the French AMX-30, what about a couple of variants similar to AMX-30 variants.  Namely, what if we were to have a Roland SAM armed Gepard or a version with the turret from a GCT 155mm/AuF1?





The latter would be quite able to be modelled by stealing the turret from a Heller 1/35 AMX 30 AUFI.  I'm not sure about the Roland though...does anyone do a kit of any Roland variant?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 02:39:10 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2012, 03:45:00 AM »
That first Leo! MLRS with the dual "six-packs" could be interesting, particularly if a second unit was converted to carry reloads.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2012, 03:55:56 AM »
Some different Gepard proposals:



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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2012, 06:57:14 AM »
I love that Leo demolition. ;)

I have the Tamiya leo I in the stash. I am thinking of adding an 88 to it,for a post war scenario where the Thierd Riech was not defeated. The Leo was fast for its time. Over 30 MPH. Imagine that speed with an 88. :o
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2012, 08:23:52 AM »
Given the Leo 1 has a 105mm gun, an 88 would be quite a downgrade.  The Germans were experimenting with 105mm & 128mm tank weapons in late WW2, so a 105mm equipped vehicle is quite valid.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2012, 08:38:40 AM »
Given the Leo 1 has a 105mm gun, an 88 would be quite a downgrade.  The Germans were experimenting with 105mm & 128mm tank weapons in late WW2, so a 105mm equipped vehicle is quite valid.

Regards,

John
That is true John. :) I wonder who all makes a W.W.2 German 105mm main gun.
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2012, 10:55:44 AM »
You would probably be best placed to derive it from the German 10.5cm Flak 38-39:



Not sure if anyone models it.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 10:57:58 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2012, 11:36:22 AM »
My take on Leopard recce and DFSV.
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2012, 11:37:08 AM »
For an actual tank gun, the 'Dicker Max' or 10.5cm K18 auf Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IVa was armed with the 105mm K18 gun.  I believe Trumpeter makes a kit of the type in 35th scale.

Regards,

John
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2012, 11:39:17 AM »
Weren't the Germans also working on a 100mm low-recoil (recoilless?) gun during WWII?
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2012, 12:14:27 PM »
Leo1 with 120mm main gun (sometimes also referred to as Leo3)......

With MEXAS armour pack for a what-if Canadian tank?
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2012, 12:50:40 PM »
You know, somewhere at some point in time, I swear I remember reading a proposal from Giat (or Nexter) that involved equipping the Leo 1 with various turrets from the AMX 30 family. I got the 155 mm SP gun and I kind of understood the DCA (for countries that didn't use the Gepard) but the reason for swapping the turret from the gun tank went over my head a bit.

I've always been a fan of the "cast turret" versions of the Leo 1 and the later A5-A6 variants of the Leo 2. Both also seem like great subjects for Whiffing.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2012, 01:01:19 PM »
For an actual tank gun, the 'Dicker Max' or 10.5cm K18 auf Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IVa was armed with the 105mm K18 gun.  I believe Trumpeter makes a kit of the type in 35th scale.

Regards,

John

I forgot about that one.  Yes there are kits available from at least DML and Trumpeter in 1/35.

How good was the K18 in the antitank role?
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2012, 01:04:19 PM »
According to Achtung Panzer, the gun was capable of penetrating 111mm of 30 degrees sloped armor plate at 2000 meters which isn't too shabby and apparently had success against KV & T-34 series vehicles.

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/sel105.htm#pzjag

Regards,

John
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John

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2012, 02:50:13 PM »
You would probably be best placed to derive it from the German 10.5cm Flak 38-39:

Not sure if anyone models it.

Many decades ago, Nitto did.  IIRC Fujimi took up the moulds and re-released it more recently.  The 10.5cm Flak 38-39 wasn't a terribly successful design, falling as it were between the two stools of the 8.8cm and the 12.8cm.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2012, 02:56:27 PM »
Weren't the Germans also working on a 100mm low-recoil (recoilless?) gun during WWII?

They were working on many weird and wonderful weapons.  They fielded a 105mm Rcl but the expense of using it (it used twice as much propellant as a normal gun) killed it.   They also fielded in very small numbers a 8cm PAW 800 gun which used the high-low pressure principle.  They were experimenting with a 10.0cm PAW 1000 weapon but never fielded it.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2012, 02:59:02 PM »
For an actual tank gun, the 'Dicker Max' or 10.5cm K18 auf Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IVa was armed with the 105mm K18 gun.  I believe Trumpeter makes a kit of the type in 35th scale.

Regards,

John

I forgot about that one.  Yes there are kits available from at least DML and Trumpeter in 1/35.

How good was the K18 in the antitank role?

Potentially very good but it was a cumbersome weapon and coming from the Artillery branch, rather than the armoured one a bit behind the eight-ball, as it were.  Their were only 2 Dickermax built and they proved a bit of a failure - more because of the chassis chosen than the gun necessarily.  One was captured by the Russians and put on display in Moscow where several pictures that have been published of it come from.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2012, 03:36:31 AM »
For an actual tank gun, the 'Dicker Max' or 10.5cm K18 auf Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IVa was armed with the 105mm K18 gun.  I believe Trumpeter makes a kit of the type in 35th scale.

Regards,

John

Thanks John. I have the DML version in the stash. Hopefully a metal barrel is available somewhere. :D
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2012, 03:45:31 AM »

Thanks John. I have the DML version in the stash. Hopefully a metal barrel is available somewhere. :D


RB Model do one in 1/35:




You can usually find them for sale on eBay.
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2012, 05:13:13 AM »

Thanks John. I have the DML version in the stash. Hopefully a metal barrel is available somewhere. :D


RB Model do one in 1/35:




You can usually find them for sale on eBay.

Thanks chief. :) That barrel would look good on a Leo I circa 1948. >:D
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2012, 10:09:51 AM »
Rickshaw: Thanks for the aide-mémoire -- 10.0cm PAW 1000 was the one I was thinking of.

You know, somewhere at some point in time, I swear I remember reading a proposal from Giat (or Nexter) that involved equipping the Leo 1 with various turrets from the AMX 30 family... but the reason for swapping the turret from the gun tank went over my head a bit ...

That's been proposed a couple of times. One non-Giat proposal was Santa Bárbara Sistemas' Proyecto LEOX. A hull was procured from Krauss-Maffei (and is still in Seville, apparently) but I'm not sure if the turret swap was ever completed. The point of the project was to eliminate drivetrain problems with the AMX-30E while avoiding British export bans on the Leopard 1A3's RO L7A3 main guns.

IIRC, Proyecto LEOX was meant as an fill-in after the collapse of the 1985 domestic Lince tank project (also by Krauss-Maffei and Santa Bárbara). There were a host of alternative proposals all involving new transmissions (or engines) for the AMX-30E. Eventually, Spain chose the AMX-30EM1 / AMX-30EM2 upgrades before moving on to Leopard 2E and Centauro replacements.
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2012, 11:19:07 AM »

.... One non-Giat proposal was Santa Bárbara Sistemas' Proyecto LEOX. A hull was procured from Krauss-Maffei (and is still in Seville, apparently) but I'm not sure if the turret swap was ever completed. The point of the project was to eliminate drivetrain problems with the AMX-30E while avoiding British export bans on the Leopard 1A3's RO L7A3 main guns.

IIRC, Proyecto LEOX was meant as an fill-in after the collapse of the 1985 domestic Lince tank project (also by Krauss-Maffei and Santa Bárbara). There were a host of alternative proposals all involving new transmissions (or engines) for the AMX-30E. Eventually, Spain chose the AMX-30EM1 / AMX-30EM2 upgrades before moving on to Leopard 2E and Centauro replacements.

AH HA! THAT was the reason. Thank you for jarring my memory about the embargo of the L7. I seem to recall (possibly from the same source) that, at the time, the AMX 30 was felt to have either a superior or at least more familiar fire control system than the Leo 1.

On a vaguely related note, while the power train problems of the AMX30 are pretty well known, I read an account from a Spanish tanker who said he felt that the gun of the older M47 was superior to the French 105! Take that for what it's worth because I have no way to verify it. Regardless, I would still like to build a LEOX in 1/35 because it sounds like a cool idea for a Whif model.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2012, 07:44:30 PM »
There were also the proposed "Lion" - a project from Oto-Melara (who licensed built the Leopard 1 for the Italian Army) - a tropicalised, specialist desert version of the Leopard.  It had a superficially different hull and turret - much squarer than the cast turret Leopard 1.  However, no one was willing to buy it and they produced instead the OF40, which was purchased by the UAE (36 MBTs + 2 ARVs).  It too was essentially an upgraded, tropicalised Leopard 1.  Again, with a much squarer hull and turret.




Offline apophenia

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2012, 08:23:45 AM »
... I read an account from a Spanish tanker who said he felt that the gun of the older M47 was superior to the French 105! ...

The preference probably sprang from the M47's main gun being stabilized (at least for elevation). AFAIK, the AMX-30E's CN-105-F1 wasn't. So, likely that tanker was willing to trade calibre for more accuracy on the move.
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2012, 08:26:45 AM »
... a tropicalised, specialist desert version of the Leopard...

Could have used some of those in Kandahar in 2006  ;)
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2012, 10:33:25 PM »
I've always thought thought the OF 40 had a sexier looking turret than the Leo 1A3-A4 series. Looks like it would be a cool variant of the Leo 1 for one of my "Imagi-Nations" that primarily uses modern German equipment.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2012, 01:27:35 AM »
Leopard 2 Tank Hunter what-if built by Paul Hennessy and posted on the forum at Missing-Lynx

Click on image or html to view topic at Missing-Lynx forums.


(Image source: Paul Hennessy - photobucket.com)

Of course I sent an invitation to Paul right after I found his topic :)
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2012, 02:20:53 AM »
 :)
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2012, 02:22:57 AM »
I made an "urban" Leo a few years ago:



inspired by BuzzBomb's urban M1:

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,26318.0.html


Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2012, 02:35:55 AM »
I made an "urban" Leo a few years ago:



inspired by BuzzBomb's urban M1: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,26318.0.html


Your 'Urban Leo looks like WALL-E's bigger brother with that little elevated sensor mast sticking up at an angle like that. 

Click on thumbnail to view larger image. 


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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2012, 07:54:11 AM »
That "Jagd-Leo" is too cool! Paul mentioned that the casement tanks were a partial inspiration and that was the first thing I thought of when I saw it.

Frank, do you have more photos of your urban combat Leo? While there have been a few nice MBTs converted to this type of vehicle, yours is the best execution of the idea I've seen so far.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2012, 12:02:29 PM »
Frank, do you have more photos of your urban combat Leo? While there have been a few nice MBTs converted to this type of vehicle, yours is the best execution of the idea I've seen so far.


Thanks Jacques! The build thread is over on the What-if board: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,26900.0
I think Brian's (Buzzbomb's) is the best I've seen.

Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2012, 10:41:32 PM »
Thanks for the link, Frank! Now I must confess to being in the running for a "Derp Of The Month" award since I realized I've looked at your build thread over on WhIf a number of times. :-[

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2012, 10:05:14 PM »
An update on Paul Hennessy's Leopard 2 Tank Hunter project can be seen at this link: A paper-panzer update on the Missing-Lynx forums. 



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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2012, 02:39:33 AM »
Random Idea:  Leo1 with ERA to keep it relevant.
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2012, 05:33:35 AM »
when Teledyne was experimenting with the MGS-retro-equip, a Leo-1 marketing-model (1/35th scale) had applique armour added to the front top areas.  I don't see why it wouldn't have been extended over the whole tank if that project had gone ahead.

photo of that promo model sent to me by the guy who built all of these concept models for Teledyne.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2012, 02:55:44 PM »
Oh, now that does look nice.
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2012, 03:00:44 PM »
Another random idea:  Leo1s converted into something akin to the BTR-T:


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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2012, 09:01:41 PM »
^ Maybe a Leo 1 with the turret (or a development thereof) of a Begleitpanzer (LINK)?
Cheers,
Moritz

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Offline Mark Aldrich

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2012, 09:15:55 PM »
The Roland is made in resin 1/35 by a Spanish company called Nimix.

http://www.nimix.net/paginas%20de%20items/3501%20AMX30%20Roland_ingles.htm

There is also one made by Militarmodellbau but I can't seem to find a store or web site.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2012, 02:25:36 AM »
Hmmm...might have to get a Roland.
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Offline Mark Aldrich

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2012, 07:02:01 AM »
The "other" Roland is mounted on what I think is a modified Marder Chassis.  Here is a link to it....

http://www.modellboard.net/index.php?topic=23156.0
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2012, 03:47:42 PM »
The Germans also mounted the Roland on a MAN 8x8 truck and the USA mounted it on a modified M-109 chassis ..... but I do prefer the Marder-IFV version :-*

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2012, 06:27:09 PM »
I remember seeing a Marder Rapier combo in a 1970's edition of Janes (I think Armour and Artillery).  It was a retactable version of the standard four missile towed launcher permitting under armour reloading.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #55 on: November 21, 2012, 11:36:25 AM »
^ Maybe a Leo 1 with the turret (or a development thereof) of a Begleitpanzer (LINK)?


Sort of like the Canadian Leopard C2A4 on page 2?   ;D
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1300.msg16485#msg16485
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2012, 02:49:15 PM »
GTX=what is that option number three on your last pic?......dual linked railguns? ;) ;)lol
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2012, 04:48:08 PM »
GTX=what is that option number three on your last pic?......dual linked railguns? ;) ;)lol

1. 2A42 automatic gun (caliber 30 mm); 
Launcher of Konkurs ATGM (caliber 135 mm ; quantity 2 pcs); 

2. 2A42 automatic gun (caliber 30 mm); 
AGS-17 automatic grenade launcher (caliber 30 mm); 

3. 2A38 twin-barrel submachine gun 30mm  (caliber 135 mm ; quantity 2 pcs); 
  
4. NSV anti-air-machine gun (caliber 12.7 mm); 
Launcher of Konkurs ATGM (caliber 135 mm ; quantity 2 pcs); 

5. NSV anti-air machine gun (caliber 12.7 mm); 
AGS-17 automatic grenade launcher (caliber 30 mm). 

* The installation of NATO armament complexes is also available
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2012, 11:03:28 PM »

3. 2A38 twin-barrel submachine gun 30mm  (caliber 135 mm ; quantity 2 pcs); 
   

A 30mm submachine gun    :icon_surprised:

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2012, 02:16:11 AM »
Blame a bad translation somewhere - in reality, the 2A38 is a 30mm auto cannon.  In fact, it is the same one as on the Tunguska Air Defence system.
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2012, 04:13:52 AM »
I was having visions of troops being genetically altered into Hulks just to handle it Greg    ;D ;D ;D

Offline arkon

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2012, 08:37:27 AM »
30mm submachine gun, the reason space marines came to be!
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2012, 02:38:43 PM »
30mm submachine gun, the reason space marines came to be!
That reminds me of the Marines of John Ringo's & "Doc" Taylor's Vorpal Blade series where one of them in powered armor has a pair of pistols made from .50 caliber Barretts.  I do highly recommend the series for good mil SF reading.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #63 on: December 01, 2012, 03:48:05 AM »
Random idea:  what if the XM-150 152 mm gun/launcher from the MBT-70 had been carried over for the Leo2?
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #64 on: December 22, 2013, 09:30:55 AM »
Flowing on from discussion in the Takom tank models thread: Whatif rather than getting M1s, the ARA is forced to go with a "cheaper" option of upgrading the Leo1s.  They give them a major hull overhaul , possibly a new/improved engine, MEXAS armour, new fire control system, new 120mm gun etc, etc…

The resulting vehicle would have aspects from both the Leo 1A6 and the Leo1 C2 with Mexas:





Maybe call it a Leopard 1A6 (AS2)?
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Offline Gingie

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #65 on: January 20, 2014, 05:28:21 AM »
Some real world Leo1 proposals:

MLRS:





I am really digging that RS-80! Mike Shackleton says there's one in a German museum. Anyone know which one?

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #66 on: January 20, 2014, 01:49:43 PM »
that second one looks real close to the missile-tube portion of the GLCM TEL.  I wonder if you could do tactical, non-nuke, GLCM launchers that way?

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #67 on: January 21, 2014, 06:58:20 AM »
are you referring to the trailer mounted launcher towed by a MAN 8x8?

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #68 on: January 21, 2014, 11:20:26 AM »
are you referring to the trailer mounted launcher towed by a MAN 8x8?
I believe so.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #69 on: January 22, 2014, 06:37:24 AM »
it *does* look a bit like that! Hmm...


Offline Zaskar24

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #70 on: January 03, 2015, 09:16:11 PM »
Given the Leo 1 has a 105mm gun, an 88 would be quite a downgrade.  The Germans were experimenting with 105mm & 128mm tank weapons in late WW2, so a 105mm equipped vehicle is quite valid.

Regards,

John

That is true John. :) I wonder who all makes a W.W.2 German 105mm main gun.


Really late to this conversation.  I did find someone who makes a German 10.5 cm L68 barrel for the Tiger II. 
http://zitaderdirect.cart.fc2.com/ca16/43/p-r4-s/
Hopefully I did that correctly.  It was an extremely pleasant experience and the shipping was quick as all get out.  Considering the fact that I ordered it on December 19th and it was at my house on the 24th.  Now to get a Tiger II kit to use this on.  Wash out Uncle Joe!

Offline Zaskar24

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #71 on: January 03, 2015, 09:32:08 PM »
Flowing on from discussion in the Takom tank models thread: Whatif rather than getting M1s, the ARA is forced to go with a "cheaper" option of upgrading the Leo1s.  They give them a major hull overhaul , possibly a new/improved engine, MEXAS armour, new fire control system, new 120mm gun etc, etc…

The resulting vehicle would have aspects from both the Leo 1A6 and the Leo1 C2 with Mexas:





Maybe call it a Leopard 1A6 (AS2)?


I was thinking something similar.  More powerful engine and transmission to handle the increased weight, possibly smaller as well to free up some room for more fuel and ammo.  Air conditioning for tropical climates as well as NBC equipment.  Just in case.  The only thing I have not been able to find a clear answer to in my searches is how many 120 mm rounds it would be able to carry.  Or go with the MGS turret possibly up-gunned to a 120 mm L44.   

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #72 on: January 03, 2015, 10:24:42 PM »
Updated Leo 1s would have been ideal for reserve RAAC tank squadrons in the reserve Beersheba brigades, not state of the art I know but a fair bit more survivable than the Bushmaster IMVs and Landrovers they will have instead.  Nice easy back story though, Leopards retained an upgraded instead of being retired when the Abrams entered service, get an extra ten or fifteen years out of them before cascading the M-1A1 AIM SEPs (TUSK) down to them as the new build M-1A3s enter service.

May be time to add one of these new kits to the stash.

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #73 on: January 04, 2015, 12:48:33 AM »
<...>  The only thing I have not been able to find a clear answer to in my searches is how many 120 mm rounds it would be able to carry. <...>
42 rounds, according to Hilmes' "Typenkompass KPz Leopard 1".  :)
Cheers,
Moritz

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #74 on: January 04, 2015, 03:31:40 AM »
The only thing I have not been able to find a clear answer to in my searches is how many 120 mm rounds it would be able to carry. 

When fitted with the 120 mm smoothbore gun, 42 rounds were supposedly carried, the same as in the Leopard 2, with 13 in the turret, two ready for use and 27 in the hull.
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Offline Zaskar24

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #75 on: January 04, 2015, 05:54:26 AM »
Thank you for the info CA and GTX!

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #76 on: February 14, 2015, 06:05:52 AM »
Just an interesting photo:

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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #77 on: February 14, 2015, 10:26:13 AM »
Oops? :-[
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Offline Gingie

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #78 on: February 17, 2015, 12:43:27 AM »
That photo explains why you site defensive position on a reverse slope!

Singaporean 2A4?

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #79 on: February 17, 2015, 09:15:22 AM »
Either he is on full advance or full retreat...   8)

Offline LemonJello

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #80 on: February 17, 2015, 09:19:44 AM »
At least they kept the muzzle of the main gun out of the dirt.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #81 on: February 18, 2015, 02:41:40 AM »
Singaporean 2A4?

Correct - Singaporean Leopard 2A4 with the Evolution upgrade
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Offline kerick

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #82 on: February 18, 2015, 05:18:21 AM »
From the tracks in the dirt he must have been going backwards. Seems tanks get into more trouble that way.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #83 on: February 19, 2015, 02:41:24 AM »
No, it was going forwards...I've seen the before shot
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Offline ttc123

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #84 on: May 09, 2015, 03:10:06 PM »
Some real world Leo1 proposals:

MLRS:



SPH:





What's the source for these images? Like, what book? I'd like to learn more about these tanks if possible.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #85 on: May 10, 2015, 12:58:38 AM »
Just an artist impression of what-if.
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #86 on: May 10, 2015, 01:40:46 AM »
I believe there was actually a prototype Leopard 1 SPG with the French GCT turret.  Fairly sure the is a photo in one of my books, just need to remember which one and hope its not one that's still in a packing box.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #87 on: May 10, 2015, 04:10:06 AM »

What's the source for these images? Like, what book? I'd like to learn more about these tanks if possible.


This book:

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #88 on: May 10, 2015, 04:19:27 AM »
I believe there was actually a prototype Leopard 1 SPG with the French GCT turret.  Fairly sure the is a photo in one of my books, just need to remember which one and hope its not one that's still in a packing box.


This one:




This was developed as a private venture by Krauss-Maffei and Giat but found no buyers.  Would be interesting to do an operational version.
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #89 on: May 10, 2015, 04:23:01 AM »
Here's a challenge for anyone brave enough.  Replicate this:

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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #90 on: May 10, 2015, 04:33:38 AM »
That's pretty cool!  8) Which museum is that?

That glacis armour looks decidedly underwhelming.  :icon_surprised:
Cheers,
Moritz

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #91 on: May 10, 2015, 04:42:25 AM »
Currently at Defence College of Management and Technology, Shrivenham, Oxfordshire, South East England, Britain.

More images here
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #92 on: May 10, 2015, 09:10:21 AM »
That's pretty cool!  8) Which museum is that?

That glacis armour looks decidedly underwhelming.  :icon_surprised:

The intention was, on the Leopard 1 and the AMX-30 for speed to be the vehicles' armour.   The reasoning being that if a war broke out in Europe, it wouldn't be long before nukes were used by either side and armour wouldn't protect you.  However, speed to manoeuvre could, as you could move around the heavier armoured, slower Warsaw Pact armoured formations quicker.   Manoeuvrability was emphasised over protection and firepower in the triad of armoured design philosophy. 

Offline Gingie

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #93 on: May 11, 2015, 03:31:33 AM »
Leopard 1 Roland by Kevin Williams (scratchbuilt turret +)!
 :icon_alabanza:


More here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/169232/thread/1417315511/Leopard+1+Roland+what-if

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #94 on: May 11, 2015, 07:38:31 PM »
I believe there was actually a prototype Leopard 1 SPG with the French GCT turret.  Fairly sure the is a photo in one of my books, just need to remember which one and hope its not one that's still in a packing box.


This one:




This was developed as a private venture by Krauss-Maffei and Giat but found no buyers.  Would be interesting to do an operational version.


Yes exactly, if memory serves me a left over from the original joint Franco German project that was to have selected either the AMX30 or the Leopard, resulted in identical turret ring diameters and as I recall identical interfaces, permitting any turrets developed for a standard AMX30 to be fitted to a Leo and visa versa.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #95 on: August 14, 2015, 02:57:04 AM »
Do you think we over did the camouflage?


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Offline Marderman

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #96 on: September 07, 2015, 07:39:19 PM »
The Leo/Roland and the Leo/AMX interesting projects. These was built from me a long years ago.
Model built in 1990:


Model built in 1993:




And these no "Leopard". It is called "Vickers MK7" Thes are german-british testvehicles in 1986-88.
MK7/1, model built in 1995:




MK7/2, model built in 2007:




And the "US-Leopard 2", the AV testet in the USA:
model built in 1996:





Greetings, Didi

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #97 on: September 07, 2015, 08:58:23 PM »
The AV stood for Austere Version if I remember correctly.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #98 on: September 09, 2015, 03:44:23 AM »
Nice work.  What's the Vickers MK7 based upon or is it 100% scratch built?
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Offline Marderman

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #99 on: September 09, 2015, 04:05:13 AM »
Yes, Volkodav, it is the austere version.
GTX_Admin, the Leopard 2 chassis and parts from the Challenger-turret.
here the Mk7/1:


and here the MK7/2: Turret-parts from Trumpeters Challenger 2


I do it RC. Based on Tamiyas 1:35 Leopard 2A5.


Didi

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #100 on: September 09, 2015, 04:40:14 AM »
Wow!  Its RC as well?!  Wow! :)
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Offline Marderman

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #101 on: September 09, 2015, 05:53:40 PM »
The first time, I do a link to my video film. I hope, it will goes.

« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 11:42:27 PM by Marderman »

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #102 on: September 09, 2015, 07:35:11 PM »
Cool, I've got a book somewhere with both the Vickers Mk7 and VMF Mk5 Light Tank (a simpler cheaper version of the XM-8 with a Vickers three man turret).  Love both Vickers concepts and its a shame neither got any orders, but this being a Whiff site what happened in the real world doesn't really matter.

Offline Marderman

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #103 on: September 09, 2015, 11:39:57 PM »
In an old german "Soldat und Technik" that time I had read, that the Mk7/1 was testet in Egypt.

Offline Gingie

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #104 on: October 07, 2015, 06:47:50 AM »
Kevin Williams is at it again with a promising Leopard Palletized transporter:





Thread here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/169232/message/1443905025/Leopard+1+PLS+what-if

Offline Gingie

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #105 on: October 09, 2015, 10:40:41 PM »
Another update from Kevin... this really makes a strong case for 3D printed parts!




Offline M.A.D

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #106 on: October 11, 2015, 01:26:38 PM »
Kevin Williams is at it again with a promising Leopard Palletized transporter:





Thread here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/169232/message/1443905025/Leopard+1+PLS+what-if


Sorry Gingie is this like a 'Demountable Rack Offload and Pickup System' (DROPS)?

M.A.D
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 06:40:06 AM by M.A.D »

Offline Marderman

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #107 on: October 12, 2015, 12:28:51 AM »
Hello, the indonesian TNI have Leopard 2 since september 2013.

More photos in "physical models"

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #108 on: November 08, 2015, 04:56:25 AM »
Interesting image I just stumbled across:

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Offline dy031101

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #109 on: November 08, 2015, 10:32:43 AM »
When I was browsing online for Leopard 2 pictures, I noticed that most Leopard 2 tanks have forward side skirts being thicker than the rest:

(Illustration courtesy of Armored Warfare by Obsidian Entertainment.)



What are those armour blocks intended to protect?

Thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 11:27:41 AM by dy031101 »
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #110 on: November 10, 2015, 11:17:23 PM »
Inspired by Weavers suggestion of Germany buying Chieftain as a heavy tank, how about the UK buying Leopards, in particular Leopard I, as a medium tank.

Back story, While fine for BAOR exercises in Norway, experience in the Falklands and later in the former Yugoslavia, demonstrates the need for a lighter, more mobile tank than Chieftain or Challenger to support Marine, Airborne / Airmobile and light infantry forces, a new medium tank.  There is a precedent for this, I have read that the Germans placed Leo 2s in reserve while retaining Leo 1s in some units due to their lower weights based on experience in the Balkans.

It could be that the desired vehicle is actually the M-8 or the Vickers Mk5 derivative, but the Leopards are readily available and much cheaper.

Weaver prompted this latest but the idea is much older, an idea I had years ago, involving the re-roling of the Household Cavalry Regiments to better support and supply significantly more combat power to amphibious and rapid deployments.

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #111 on: November 11, 2015, 12:06:39 AM »
It's not as far-fetched as it might seem, either, as the UK did acquire at least one Leo 1 variant, and both Australia and Canada went with the Leo 1, too, so it's not too hard to see it in British configuration for me.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Weaver

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #112 on: November 11, 2015, 08:12:06 AM »
Well the exchange I had in mind was the Chieftain for Germany in exchange for the Marder for the UK, but this works too. I've often thought it interesting that although the concept of heavy and medium tanks was supposed to be dead and replaced by the universal MBT, the way things developed actually made a heavy/medium split still perfectly doable.

Possible British-style mods to Leo I:

British-style 'soft' barrel jacket

Cupola with remote GPMG for commander, plain hatch for loader

Big IR searchlight on side of turret instead of Leo's small barrel-mounted one

Wedge-shaped ribbed storage boxes on sides of hull ahead of louvres

UK/US style smoke dischargers

The big question would be would the British Army keep the stereo rangefinder, which they wern't a fan of?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 08:37:31 AM by Weaver »
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #113 on: November 11, 2015, 11:07:03 PM »
I was thinking an 80s or 90s introduction as expeditionary warfare came back on the radar, specifically the need to provide armoured support in environments where roads, bridges and terrain appeared unsuitable for the Chieftain / Challenger sized vehicles (I say appeared because these assumptions have often been disproved).  One thing that is true though is the Leopard 1 is smaller and lighter as well as easier to transport than the Chieftain.

I am thinking either a single regiment supporting the UKs light, marine and airborne infantry on the same sort of scale as the US independent tank battalions, i.e. one tank battalion/regiment per nine battalion infantry division, or three medium weight Armoured Cavalry Regiment similar to the type being formed for the Australian army at the moment (google Beersheba Brigade).  In the later case instead of one medium tank regiment supporting a division there would be three ACRs, each supporting a three battalion brigade, with each ACR having one medium tank squadron, one cavalry squadron and an APC/AIFV Squadron (which would let you have your Marders as well).

Which units to use?  I was thinking Household Cavalry for the single regiment or the separate Life Guards, Royal Horse Guards and (dis amalgamated) Royal Dragoons for the ACRs.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #114 on: November 12, 2015, 02:28:10 AM »
Interesting Leo 1 and Chieftain side-by-side comparison:




Leopard 1:
Weight   42.2 tonnes (increased on later models from original 40.0 tonnes)
Length   9.54/8.29 m (gun forward/rearward)
Width   3.37 m
Height   2.39/2.70 m (turret roof/absolute)
Chieftain:
Weight   55 long tons (62 short tons; 56 t)
Length   35 ft 4 in (10.77 m) – gun forward
7.5 m (24 ft 7 in) – hull
Width   12 ft 0 in (3.66 m)
Height   2.9 m (9 ft 6 in)
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Offline Gingie

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #115 on: November 13, 2015, 01:58:21 AM »
More from Kevin:





 :-*

Offline arkon

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #116 on: November 13, 2015, 08:27:31 AM »
I have a hard enough time building parts that don't move, is he building it so it all works? If so, my hat is off to this gentleman.
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #117 on: January 19, 2016, 01:55:28 AM »
I love Leopard-1


Offline Volkodav

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #118 on: January 19, 2016, 08:48:35 PM »
In Australia the Leopard has been replaced by the Abrams and we are discovering / have discovered, that a lot of gear that was perfectly fine with the Leopard, or even the preceding Centurion is not compatible with the weight on the M-1A1 SEP.  This includes landing craft bridging equipment, barges etc.

The same would have been true with the Chieftain but earlier, potentially denying some expeditionary forces not just armour support but direct fire support as well.  This is the niche the Leopard could have fitted.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #119 on: June 26, 2016, 07:44:57 AM »
Some interesting Leo AS.1 images etc here such as these:


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Offline tahsin

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #120 on: June 29, 2016, 07:13:06 PM »
When I was browsing online for Leopard 2 pictures, I noticed that most Leopard 2 tanks have forward side skirts being thicker than the rest:

(Illustration courtesy of Armored Warfare by Obsidian Entertainment.)



What are those armour blocks intended to protect?

Thanks in advance.


Increasing the thickness against incoming shots from 11 to 2 o'clocks as you climb the hilltop to fire?

Offline apophenia

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #121 on: June 30, 2016, 11:24:55 AM »
What are those armour blocks intended to protect?

The four armour blocks act as added protection for the hull ammunition racks.
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Offline Zaskar24

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #122 on: July 21, 2016, 05:55:18 AM »
http://www.janes.com/article/60318/rheinmetall-to-unveil-130mm-smoothbore-tank-gun-at-eurosatory

Has anyone seen this yet. After dropping the 140mm it looks like the introduction of the T-14 Armata by Russia has at least the Germans worried.  For now the image of the gun mounted is on an Evolution series Leopard 2.

Found this over on Secret Projects.  http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,26693.0.html



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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #123 on: July 22, 2016, 02:38:36 AM »
Have been watching this for a while.  It will be interesting to see if the new 130mm gun is adopted by anyone.  Either way, it is likely to require an autoloader given the increased size of the ammunition:



Mind you, even if they don't some 1/35 versions of either this (or the 140mm one) would go down nicely...
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 02:41:14 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #124 on: July 22, 2016, 02:49:51 AM »
It would be cool if one could get a conversion kit to allow one to model the Rheinmetall MBT Technologieträger:



More photos/details here.
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Offline Zaskar24

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #125 on: July 22, 2016, 07:46:45 AM »
Agreed with needing an autoloader to handle the new shell due to it's size. If the U.S. went with it they could probably dust off the plans for the M1 autoloader. It looks like the turret rear is the same shape as a standard M1 turret.

Would also love to get 1/35 conversions for the 140mm and  the 130mm versions. I would be happy with a metal barrel.

Would also love to see a kit of the Evolution Leopard or that beautiful looking behemoth you posted above.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #126 on: September 24, 2016, 08:14:25 AM »
Jagdleopard elevating platform for HOT Anti Tank Missiles:

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Offline Marderman

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #127 on: September 27, 2016, 04:11:26 AM »
I have build it in 1993.



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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #128 on: September 27, 2016, 04:55:41 AM »
Nice work.  Do you have any in-progress build photos?
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Offline Marderman

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #129 on: September 30, 2016, 04:11:32 AM »
Yes, I have some.







Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #130 on: September 30, 2016, 05:44:35 AM »
Thank you
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #131 on: October 12, 2016, 12:14:30 PM »
Random idea:

Leopard 1 retrograded to have either 7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70 gun (from Panther tank) or  8.8 cm KwK 43 L/71 gun (from Tiger II tank).
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #132 on: October 12, 2016, 12:48:26 PM »
Random idea:

Leopard 1 retrograded to have either 7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70 gun (from Panther tank) or  8.8 cm KwK 43 L/71 gun (from Tiger II tank).

Or how about a British 20pdr or a US 90mm with the T-shaped muzzle brake? Say the Leo project was earlier or the L7 was later and the initial version of the Leo had to have either the Centurion gun or the M-47 one.
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #133 on: October 12, 2016, 01:57:36 PM »
Funny you should say that, but I recall one of the Leopard 1 precursors having a 90mm gun (though of German origin).

There was also this prototype that had a different muzzle brake:

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #134 on: October 13, 2016, 03:13:30 AM »
Close up of proposed Leopard 1A6 turret:


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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #135 on: October 22, 2016, 04:02:03 PM »


Early Leopard 1 prototypes

Offline apophenia

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #136 on: October 23, 2016, 04:16:33 AM »
Rickshaw: Photo 2 is Hanomag's 24 tonne RU 251 prototype, aka Spähpanzer Kette. That makes this light tank more closely related to the Kanonejagdpanzer (and, ultimately, Marder ... if I understand correctly) than to the Leopard.

Part of a planned leichten Panzerfamilie, Spähpanzer Kette was meant to replace the Bundeswehr's M41s (in the recce role). Power was a 500 hp Daimler, armament a 90mm BK in a Rheinmetall-Borsig turret. Production vehicles were to have more in common with the Leopard 1 hull. But, in the end, the Bundeswehr dumped the Spähpanzer Kette in favour of a combo of Leo 1s and the 8x8 Spähpanzer Luchs.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6947.0
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #137 on: October 23, 2016, 06:27:16 AM »
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #138 on: October 23, 2016, 07:37:47 PM »
Different, I wonder what happened to the 140mm?  I imagine the 130mm offers improved performance to any of the 120mm while having a lower platform impact than the 140mm.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #139 on: October 25, 2016, 06:06:07 PM »
Random idea:  Gepard given the ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" treatment and given 4 35mm cannon in central mount with radar moved to rear of turret.
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #140 on: October 30, 2016, 10:45:12 AM »
Another image showing a 130mmm main gun:

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #141 on: December 21, 2016, 03:03:23 AM »
JagdLeo1:




Above is what I drew ages ago.  Those below may (or may not) be real world equivalents:


« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 03:15:20 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline Marderman

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #142 on: December 22, 2016, 05:38:24 PM »
See in the internet: turkish Leo 2 in sandcolour against IS:





Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #143 on: December 23, 2016, 09:19:01 PM »
« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 09:20:43 PM by Rickshaw »

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #144 on: December 24, 2016, 07:16:51 PM »
Packing / unpacking and repacking for the move and I found an almost complete Leo I.......mmmm......

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #145 on: January 07, 2017, 04:31:38 AM »
I was just reading that the British Army have been offered 2nd hand Leo2s as a replacement for the Challenger 2 though the offer has been declined.  Without going into the pros/cons of this particular offer, it does raise the question of perhaps NATO launching a new 'Euro-tank'/'NATO standard tank' in the '80s.  This could easily have seen the Leo 2 coming out as the standard tank across all NATO members including the UK and USA.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #146 on: January 07, 2017, 12:04:17 PM »
Just dug my Hobby Boss Leo 2E out of a saturated and disintegrating removal box, might be an excuse to make a start on it once it dries out.  Important lesson learned though, when you have your stash on shelves and in cabinets for safe storage, don't trust your step daughter to pack them or the kits will be jammed into removal box's until they bowing at the sides and the kits boxes are crushed, then at the new house the box's will be left on the ground next to a leaking down pipe during tropical storms.  Did better than my tool boxes containing my old tool making stuff, they were left open in the rain to fill up with water, apparently they needed some sockets to replace a flat tyre, couldn't find what they were looking for and forget to tidy up the stuff they got out when they finished.  Nothing important, just digital verniers, micrometers, precision ground parallels and angle plates, levelling jacks, etc. much of which I made as an apprentice and kept in pristine condition for over 25 years.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #147 on: January 07, 2017, 12:10:50 PM »
Something I haven't found yet is the second of my 1/35 Leo 1s, this one I did a cut and shut on to make a Leo Light tank.  My thinking was that after adopting the Leo AS1 the Australian army decided they needed a smaller lighter light tank for reconnaissance and fire support within the Cavalry Regiments instead of the M-113 based FSV and MRV with Saladin and Scorpion Turrets respectively.  The result was a shortened Leo1 hull with a physically smaller engine (maybe a V6, V8 or even a GT) and a smaller turret with a HV 60 or 76mm auto loading gun.  Its incomplete but I am sure it is somewhere, should find it soon with the rate we are unpacking.

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #148 on: April 10, 2017, 12:57:51 AM »
Could make for a helluva effective camo in sub-Saharan Africa!  :icon_surprised:





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Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #149 on: April 10, 2017, 08:34:05 AM »
Nice but "fussy".  Need some careful masking to make it look good in real life, let alone 1/35 scale.  Most "fussy" cam is created by some officer who never has to paint it.  Which is why most WOs and Sergeants "simplify" things, preferring nice, broad, plain colours...

Offline Gingie

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #150 on: April 11, 2017, 05:10:18 AM »
From Panzer 46 FB page (Builder unknown)


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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #151 on: April 11, 2017, 05:50:51 PM »
 :)
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #152 on: April 11, 2017, 06:05:46 PM »
Ooh, they look good! 8)
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #153 on: April 11, 2017, 06:21:01 PM »
That is soooooo cool!

Who needs an S Tank now, I think my RAR Armoured Support Company, TD platoon may get six to eight of those instead of the S Tanks I had planned.

Offline Claymore

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #154 on: April 12, 2017, 06:29:15 AM »
Gulp... Very, very nice indeed.  8)
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #155 on: July 08, 2017, 11:00:21 AM »
More JagdLeopards, evolved in post WWII era from JagdPhanther


Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #156 on: July 10, 2017, 02:41:28 AM »
Good work!  8)
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #157 on: December 02, 2017, 04:40:49 AM »
From Panzer 46 FB page (Builder unknown)

Another:

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #158 on: December 29, 2017, 04:11:05 AM »
More on the RS90 MLRS:

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #159 on: December 29, 2017, 08:58:55 AM »
Never quite understood why you would want to mount an MLRS on a tank chassis, particularly when you have a road network as extensive and as well paved as Germany's to put your truck mounted chassis on.   Appears even the Germans eventually understood that.   Wasn't there also an attempt to put the rocket launcher turret on a Chieftain chassis?

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #160 on: December 30, 2017, 02:22:38 AM »
Never quite understood why you would want to mount an MLRS on a tank chassis, particularly when you have a road network as extensive and as well paved as Germany's to put your truck mounted chassis on.   

Maybe because they weren't always planning on fighting in Germany or wanted more flexibility?
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #161 on: December 30, 2017, 08:52:34 AM »
Never quite understood why you would want to mount an MLRS on a tank chassis, particularly when you have a road network as extensive and as well paved as Germany's to put your truck mounted chassis on.   

Maybe because they weren't always planning on fighting in Germany or wanted more flexibility?

Most of Europe's road network, East as well as West was pretty well paved by the mid-1960s.  I cannot imagine where they were thinking of going, except perhaps to Moscow (again) where they'd need a tank chassis.  Personally, I'd have mounted it on an M548 chassis if I wanted a fully-tracked vehicle to carry it.  Tank chassis tend to be over-heavy, inefficiently powered and well, a tad cramped for use as a MLRS.   What they wanted was a rocket which was shorter and fatter, not long and thin.   Rather like the US MLRS became...

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #162 on: December 31, 2017, 02:20:03 AM »
Most of Europe's road network, East as well as West was pretty well paved by the mid-1960s.  I cannot imagine where they were thinking of going, except perhaps to Moscow (again) where they'd need a tank chassis. 

By that argument, you would also argue that they did not need tracked vehicles at all...
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #163 on: December 31, 2017, 02:43:21 AM »
Most of Europe's road network, East as well as West was pretty well paved by the mid-1960s.  I cannot imagine where they were thinking of going, except perhaps to Moscow (again) where they'd need a tank chassis. 

By that argument, you would also argue that they did not need tracked vehicles at all...

Any paved road system can quickly be put out of action, so you need the capability to go 'off-road'

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #164 on: April 07, 2018, 11:19:17 AM »
Found on my workbench under a mountain of old sprues:

Two Stridsvagn 122 kits, two Leopard 2A6 kits, and a Leopard 2A5/A5NL kit, all in 1/72, all of them started.

Problem: one of the lower hulls is a total loss, all the suspension arms are broken off an half are missing.

Not sure exactly what tank configurations I'm going to build (could do an Strv 122 with the L55 barrel, could do a Leopard 2A6NL, not sure what else), but either way it looks like I'll have a complete turret left over.

Maybe use it as a coastal defense piece?

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #165 on: April 08, 2018, 03:02:07 AM »
it looks like I'll have a complete turret left over.

Maybe use it as a coastal defense piece?

Or put it on another hull - maybe a wheeled platform like a LAV or Boxer?
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Offline SebastianP

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #166 on: April 08, 2018, 06:31:17 AM »
Or put it on another hull - maybe a wheeled platform like a LAV or Boxer?

Nice idea, but it's way out of my comfort zone when it comes to required skills, and I don't have any donor kits. Unless I want to scale-o-rama the turret onto an 1/35 vehicle, which I have no plans to do.


Offline Zaskar24

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #167 on: April 11, 2018, 04:58:29 AM »
Or put it on another hull - maybe a wheeled platform like a LAV or Boxer?

Nice idea, but it's way out of my comfort zone when it comes to required skills, and I don't have any donor kits. Unless I want to scale-o-rama the turret onto an 1/35 vehicle, which I have no plans to do.

If you did scale-o-rama the turret that would make the 120 approximately a 60mm gun which could be the current version of the one the Israeli's had in the 70s.

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #168 on: June 18, 2018, 03:20:35 PM »
Hello,
Eurosatory 2018, Leopard 2A7 and Leclerc-turret. Cooperation from Nexter and KMW (KNDS). Euro Main Battle Tank (EMBT) demonstrator.
Leoclerc ;) or LeLeo ;) .

here is a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPu9UR8L6R0
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 04:27:29 AM by Marderman »

Offline dy031101

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #169 on: June 21, 2018, 12:45:35 PM »
Fan artist taking the T-72 turret idea somewhat further:
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Offline Marderman

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #170 on: June 22, 2018, 04:22:29 AM »
Hey dy031101
I do it.




Offline dy031101

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #171 on: June 22, 2018, 08:34:41 AM »
Hey dy031101
I do it.

I'm thinking of how it looks like after an armour upgrade, preferably in either an all-ERA (explosive reactive armours) or an all-composite applique setup  ;)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 10:35:11 AM by dy031101 »
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #172 on: June 23, 2018, 02:20:09 AM »
I've actually got a plan to do an upgraded Leo 1 with ERA.  This would be a pretty much standard Leo 1 A5 with one of the current operators, possibly Greece.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 02:48:14 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #173 on: June 24, 2018, 09:23:17 AM »
Leclerc turret on Leo 2 hull is a definite improvement in the looks department.  :-*

T-72 turret on Leo 1 hull -  not so much!  :-X
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #174 on: June 24, 2018, 10:56:45 AM »
Quote
T-72 turret on Leo 1 hull -  not so much!


Maybe swap the gun out on the Leopard for the gun from the T-72?  Yeah, I know there is still the loading system and internal layout for the commander and gunner to consider but that is all on the inside and out of sight.  :)
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Offline Marderman

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #175 on: August 07, 2018, 09:02:34 PM »
EMBT Demonstrator
Now I works:












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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #176 on: August 07, 2018, 11:48:17 PM »
 :smiley: :smiley:
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #177 on: August 08, 2018, 04:46:11 AM »
Great start, Didi! Are you using the Tamiya Leclerc 2 turret?
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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #178 on: August 11, 2018, 03:27:38 PM »
Yes, I use Tamiya´s Leclerc. The Heller Kit was too inaccurate.

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 Tanks
« Reply #179 on: August 11, 2018, 08:41:57 PM »
Love this project. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: